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Carl Schmitt and the New Right

The intellectual New Right may be more a loose network of persons, political projects, publications and publishers than an organization or party. Carl Schmitt redefined democracy as the "identity of ruler and ruled." He started from the unity and homogeneity of the people's will with the will of the government and the state. State and people merge in the rule of the people. The plebiscite is used to overcome and delegitimate pluralism and parliamentary democracy.

By Bernd Reismann

[This reading sample of a 2005 seminar paper is translated from the German on the Internet, www.grin.com/document/46373 Translator's note on political theory: The state isn't a business or a housewife but can contract debts to help present and future generations. The state lives in eternal life since it will not disappear. Unlike a plutocracy or oligarchy, a democracy should serve public interests and not be overtaken by private or special interests. $18 trillion of taxpayer money bailed out "too-big-to-fail banks." Private risk became a public risk. The state revenue crisis is really a tax avoidance problem. The bank crisis mutated into the state debt crisis. More at  http://www.freembtranslations.net and www,therealnews.com.]

The political current of the new Right described by political scientist Wolfgang Gessenharter as a "hinge" between the democratic and right-wing extremist spectrum has its seminal anti-democratic thinker in the time of the Weimar republic [1]. Carl Schmidt and his ideas about politics and homogeneity serve as models of thought and argumentation for this political current. To what extent are the rules of the political current of the "conservative revolution" of the Weimar era including Carl Schmitt found in the New Right?

Terms like "decisionism," "homogeneity," "friend-enemy thinking" and "ethno-pluralism" should be analyzed and not only Carl Schmitt's understanding of politics and the state and the New Right interpretations today. How the New Right interprets Carl Schmidt and why Schmitt's inheritance and the conservative revolution appear again in Germany should be investigated.

In its understanding of politics, decisionism turns against the ideas of the Enlightenment and in its core amounts to an authoritarian conception of the state. Schmitt's demands at the time of the Weimar Republic emerge again today almost unchanged in the New Right spectrum.

Pluralism- and parliamentarism-criticism are central in Schmittian theory. These ideas are very important for the New Right as core elements of the conservative revolution to theoretically support its anti-democratic efforts.

The idea of ethno-pluralism should be explained. This word-creation (neologism) of the New Right is largely based on Carl Schmitt's homogeneity ideas, his friend-enemy thinking and rejection of universal human rights...

1. The New Right

Definition s of the term "New Right" differ both in their wording and their content. Adherents of the New Right understand themselves as current supporters of the conservative revolution of the Weimar Republic. [2] This short but concise definition is helpful by making clear the reference to the conservative revolution...

Ingeborg Villinger subdivides the New Right into two groups, the "degraded" and the "privileged." [3]... An anti-foreigner attitude and a homogeneous social-psychological model are common to both groups. The only difference is the readiness for violence of the "degraded." For the "privileged," the call for a strong state is given special emphasis. Authority and order should be restored or guaranteed in the sign of a homogenous value horizon. [4] In Vollinger's definition, the New Right ready for violence and the New Right not ready for violence must be distinguished. The intellectual claim of those not ready for violence, particularly their ideological borrowings from the conservative revolution is often cut short.

On the other hand, Wolfgang Gessenharter refers exclusively to the intellectual aspect of the New Right. According to his definition, the intellectual New Right [... ] is in no way an organization or even a party. Rather, it is a loose network of persons, political projects, [... ] publications and publishers. Their goal is to affect the political culture of Germany in its balancing orientation and gain political primacy this way. [5] Gessenharter's definition shows the New Right is influential in its political ambitions [6] comparable with the conservative revolution. In addition, Gessenharter describes the intellectual New Right as an ideological, personnel, and organizational "hinge" between democratic conservatism and manifest right-wing extremism. [7] The New Right is an intermediary realm that dynamically couples together the right-wing extremist spectrum.

"The New Right is an intellectual current within right-wing extremism that refers to anti-democratic theoreticians of the Weimar Republic and the conservative revolution. It would push back the pluralism of an "open society," move homogeneity concepts and the ethnic-national collective into the center of politics and strives to influence public opinion." [9] In contrast to Gessenharter, the New Right is included in the spectrum of right-wing extremism... Since the definition also speaks of "pushing back" pluralism, homogeneity ideas and the ethnic-national collective, it helps describe the relation between Carl Schmitt and the New Right.

2. The New Right's reference to Carl Schmitt

2.1 Identity instead of representative democracy

Carl Schmitt defined his conception of democracy as "... the identity of ruler and ruled, governing and governed, commanding and obedient." [10] Thus, he did not criticize the term democracy but reinterpreted it. Schmitt starts from the unity and homogeneity of the people's will and its absolute identity with the will of the government and the state. [11] A representative democracy with its political groups, opinions, interests and goals opposes the homogeneity of the will of the people and the government. In this way of looking at things, democracy sees a unity of will in which state and the people are united in the rule of the people. Democracy is not based on a majority principle. Consequently,
Politics is developed and conceived from a metaphysical will of the people and is not made by individuals vested with rights. [12] Therefore, parliamentarianism seems undemocratic in its core. On the other hand, a dictatorship based on ethnic and political homogeneity is democratic since the will of the ruler and the ruled agree in it. The rejection of the Weimar republic by nearly all supporters of the conservative revolution and not only by Schmitt is very clear in this understanding of democracy.

Schmitt's statements are interesting for the camp of the New Right since they postulate the identity of the governing and the governed and homogeneity of society as a prerequisite of democracy. Advocates of the New Right appeal to Schmitt in unmasking German democracy as undemocratic. [13] A parliamentary system with conflicting interests and a political style oriented in finding consensus contradicts the notion of democracy as homogeneity and uniform will.

Strengthening plebiscite elements in Germany is the demand of the New Right spokesperson. Followers of the democratic constitutional state urge a stronger participation of the people in political decision-making processes. Therefore, the New Right demand for plebiscites must be seen on the backdrop of their basic political attitudes. The New Right plebiscite demands have an instrumental-political character. Removing the place of the party and the parliament and annulling separation of powers, a supporting principle of the constitutional state are central. [15] Such demands go beyond the direct election of a president who will make important political decisions. The people only consist of a mass expressing acclamation and no longer come-of-age individuals. [16]

Carl Schmidt supports the New Right demand for a strong president. Schmitt urged more powers for the Weimar Reich-president that made him a sovereign dictator. In a trivializing way, he described the power concentration in one person as a "neutral power" that only takes sides for the state. [17]

Therefore, the New Right sees the plebiscite as the proper instrument for overcoming and de-legitimating parliamentary democracy. The goal is creating an identity democracy based on ethnic and political homogeneity. [18]...


[1] Vgl.: Pfeiffer, Thomas. Avantgarde und Brücke. In: Gessenharter, Wolfgang; Pfeiffer, Thomas (Hrsg.). Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie? Wiesbaden 2004. S. 52.
[2] Vgl.: Pfahl-Traughber, Armin. Die Erben der „Konservativen Revolution". In: Gessenharter, Wolfgang; Fröchling, Helmut (Hrsg.). Rechtsextremismus und Neue Rechte in Deutschland. Neuvermessung eines politisch-ideologischen Raums. Opladen 1998. S. 81.
[3] Vgl.: Villinger, Ingeborg. Die Neue Rechte: Opfermythos, symbolische Macht der Institutionen und die kulturelle Praxis des Fremden. In: Schweer, Martin K.W. (Hrsg.). Die Neue Rechte. Eine Herausforderung für Forschung und Praxis. Frankfurt am Main 2003. S. 59.
[4] Vgl.: ibid
[5] Vgl.: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S. 33.
[6] Vgl.: Pfeiffer, Thomas. Avantgarde und Brücke. In: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S. 54.
[7] Vgl.: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S. 33.
[8] Vgl.: Pfeiffer, Thomas. Avantgarde und Brücke. In: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S. 53.
[9] Vgl.: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S. 52.
[10] Vgl.: Schmitt, Carl. Die geistesgeschichtliche Lage des heutigen Parlamentarismus. München/Leipzig 1923. S. 231.
[11] Vgl.: Pfahl-Traughber, Armin. „Konservative Revolution" und „Neue Rechte". Rechtsextremistische Intellektuelle gegen den demokratischen Verfassungsstaat. Opladen 1998.
S. 73.
[12] Vgl.: ibid.
[13] Vgl.: Kunze, Klaus; Schwab, Jürgen, Nordbruch, Claus, in: Pfahl-Traughber, Armin. Die „Umwertung der Werte" als Strategie einer „Kulturrevolution". In: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S.88ff.
[14] Vgl.: Pfahl-Traughber, Armin. Die „Umwertung der Werte" als Strategie einer „Kulturrevolution". In: Gessenharter, Die Neue Rechte - eine Gefahr für die Demokratie, a.a.O., S.89.
[15] Vgl.: a.a.O., S.90
[16] Vgl.: ibid
[17] Vgl.: Mehring, Reinhard. Carl Schmitt zur Einführung. Hamburg 2001. S. 52ff.
[18] Vgl.: Mehring, a.a.O., S. 91.

homepage: homepage: http://www.freembtranslations.net
address: address: www.grin.com

From the Constitutional State to the Security State, 2016 21.Aug.2018 15:02

Giorgio Agamben

From the Constitutional State to the Security State
by Giorgio Agamben, April 2016 and translated from the German in Luxemburg 1/2016:


The state of emergency is that arrangement by which totalitarian powers were established in Europe. Hitler's first official act after his nomination (to Reich chancellor) was the proclamation of the state of emergency that was never retracted (during the NS rule). If one is amazed at the crimes committed with impunity in Germany by the Nazis, one forgets that these actions were absolutely "legal" because the land was subjected to a state of emergency and basic rights and freedom rights were suspended.

The security state is neither part of the constitutional state nor what Michel Foucault called the disciplinary society.. The security state is permanently grounded on fear and must keep fear alive at any cost because it has its essential function and legitimacy from it...

The three characteristics of the security state-maintaining a generalized state of anxiety, de-politization of citizens and renunciation on any legal certainty-should make us think. The security state to which we are moving does the opposite of what it promises. While security means the absence of worry (Latin sine cura - without worry - as the root for the French word securite), the security state foments permanent fear and terror. The security state is a police state that increases the police's freedom of decision by suspending the power of the judiciary. The state of emergency that becomes daily routine and acts as the sovereign more and more becomes the normal case.

The security state breaks out of familiar politics to move to an indeterminate zone where public and private whose borders are hard to define become ever more blurred - through the increasing de-politization of citizens.

Shadow government, Deep Politics and the deep state — 22.Aug.2018 01:32



A Deep State Of Mind: America's Shadow Government And Its Silent Coup

The future president will actually inherit not one but two shadow governments.

The first shadow government, referred to as COG or Continuity of Government, is made up of unelected individuals who have been appointed to run the government in the event of a "catastrophe." COG is a phantom menace waiting for the right circumstances—a terrorist attack, a natural disaster, an economic meltdown—to bring it out of the shadows, where it operates even now. When and if COG takes over, the police state will transition to martial law.

Yet it is the second shadow government—also referred to as the Deep State—that poses the greater threat to freedom right now. Comprised of unelected government bureaucrats, corporations, contractors, paper-pushers, and button-pushers who are actually calling the shots behind the scenes, this government within a government is the real reason "we the people" have no real control over our government.

The Deep State, which "operates according to its own compass heading regardless of who is formally in power," makes a mockery of elections and the entire concept of a representative government. If there is anything the Deep State requires it is silent, uninterrupted cash flow and the confidence that things will go on as they have in the past. It is even willing to tolerate a degree of gridlock: Partisan mud wrestling over cultural issues may be a useful distraction from its agenda.

So who or what is the Deep State?


Obama and the Deep State: Is there Hope?
09.Nov.2008 16:17


Deep State Supporters Want Trump Removed From Office For "Russia Ties"
05.Mar.2017 12:39



The Hidden Government Group Linking JFK, Watergate, Iran-Contra and 9/11

Peter Dale Scott is considered the father of "Deep Politics"— the study of hidden permanent institutions and interests whose influence on the political realm transcends the elected, appointed and career officials who come and go.

Daniel Ellsberg said of Scott's book 'Drugs, Oil and War', "It makes most academic and journalistic explanations of our past and current interventions read like government propaganda written for children."

What follows is based on a recent Scott lecture entitled "The JFK Assassination and Other Deep Events", and will be expanded on further in his next book, The American Deep State, due out in November.


James Risen: Greed, Power, An Endless Homeland Security-Industrial Complex


Uncontrollable—Pentagon and Corporate Contractors Too Big to Audit



The Patriot Act was made permanent . Are you now safer from terrorism?

The Patriot Act was made permanent, although it clearly violates many of the Bill of Rights enjoyed by citizens. This article traces the roots of Fascism,through the Bush dynasty, back to the Nazis and their roots in the Inquisition. The "New World Order " is an old project of the world's elite facilitated by a coup d etat in Dallas.


Kevin Shipp, former CIA Officer and antiterrorism expert, held several high level positions in the CIA. He was assigned as a protective agent for the Director of Central Intelligence, a counterintelligence investigator, team leader protecting sensitive CIA assets from assassination, manager of high risk Counter Terrorism Center protective operations, lead instructor for members of allied governments, internal staff security investigator and a polygraph examiner tasked with protecting the CIA from foreign agent penetration. He is the recipient of two CIA Meritorious Unit Citations, three Exceptional Performance Awards and a Medallion for overseas covert operations.

Shipp also supervised the Department of State Anti Terrorism Assistance program and managed the protective detail assigned to the president of Afghanistan following the US invasion.

Part 1: Kevin Shipp, CIA Officer Exposes the Shadow Government

Part 2: Kevin Shipp, CIA Officer, Exposes the Shadow Government

Further expose' of the structure and function of the Shadow Government/Deep State.

part 3: CIA Officer and Whistleblower Kevin Shipp

Kevin Shipp reveals IN DETAIL how the Shadow Government (CIA) destroys whistleblowers. It includes information never made public, including the personal side of what a true whistleblower must face. He has decided to release this part of the speech to the public because of its importance.




Peter Dale Scott & David Talbot In Conversation

(1:32:54)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QH9yOzhkio

Author David Talbot interviews author Peter Dale Scott upon the publication of Scott's book 'The American Deep State' at The Green Arcade bookstore, San Francisco in February, 2015



JFK & 9/11: Insights Gained From Studying Both (Peter Dale Scott)

(57 mins.)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uqA_3P9lM

a 2006 talk given Peter Dale Scott at the COPA (Coalition on Political Assassinations) regional meeting in Dallas, Texas.

based on his decades of Deep Politics, global covert ops and assassinations research, Scott discusses in detail the connections between drug trafficking, terrorism, intelligence agency operatives / operations and geopolitical/regime change goals during the Cold War era and on through the events of 11 September 2001.

Also outlines Continuity of Government doctrines and the White House Communications Agency (WHCA) role in many of these maneuvers.

Russians in your cornflakes? 23.Aug.2018 10:09


Russians in your cornflakes?

Trump is caught by the "Uncle Sucker" myth, that the US carelessly let itself be exploited by everyone! (cf. Michael Hudson).

7 and a half million tons of bombs were dropped on little Vietnam. The system of finance capitalism has allowed the richest 85 persons to have more wealth than 3.5 billion people. It's time to see the log in our own eye and not only the speck in the other's eye!

What are the antidotes to exploding inequality and precarious work, to concentrated wealth and the nefarious effect of money in politics?

(marc1seed asks): What are the antidotes? 23.Aug.2018 10:53


( RE: Trump, he is postulating a 'populist' schtick that casts himself, versus an amorphous, rhetorical 'Deep State': it overlaps somewhat but is not the *actual* shadow government and deep state which exists in reality. See the American Right explanation below. )

Here are the "antidotes", marc1seed:

the American people must not rest or cease action until CIA, NSA, "Federal Reserve" (<--which is neither of those 2 words), IRS, DEA, DHS, FBI, NRO, Military-Industrial-Complex, multinational corporate lobbyists (<--which fully pre-draft all legislation for Congress to pass), U.S. corporate mass media et al.

These are the entities which have a chokehold on the way the American people are governed, and further are absolutely not acting in the interests of individual Americans.
( Not only Americans: via the Federal Reserve, Pentagon / M.I.C., multinational corporations, hundreds of U.S. global military emplacements and fiat-dollar based global currency and economics, the shadow government and deep state also keep a chokehold on most of the world's population. )

Therefore, these are the entities which need to be targeted for destruction by Activists and advocates for change, 'progression', "a way out" of the current paradigm et cetera.

Otherwise continue to wade in the vast cult of impotence: SSV, "Black Lives Matter", electoral politics (even beyond Coke-v.-Pepsi) etc.

There is no other 'escape' apart from reversion into your own fantasyland(s).

Occupy, in the year 2011, showed the potentiality of a MASS AWARENESS and ability to directly attack CIA, NSA, "Federal Reserve", IRS etc.

But, only a couple of years after the 2011 bloom of the fully anti-corporate and anti-fiat-currency Occupy Movement, we have dissolved and devolved again back into an even more rigid and strictured adherence to identity politics (instead of --> anti-corporatism/anti-globalism which, at least for awhile, even Antifa back in the 1990s was on top of).

Problem — from a mental perceptions point of view — is that, most activist and/or 'thinkers' on Right and Left get too mired in ideological quandaries and mutual/self-fellation.

on the American Right, the tendency — as has been typical for the American Right and analyzed (see cf. Richard Hofstadter's "Paranoid Style") in historical context — is to postulate a 'big conspiracy' of Leftist Media, Leftist politicians who are all "trying to destroy America" (and/or can also somehow be in league with US-external forces). It's a tradition which began post-World War II in earnest with Joe McCarthy ('Communism' was the external actor there)..... the 2018 version is "Deep State" [<-- *carefully note* N.B.: this is the Garden Variety Trumpkin interpretation and use of that pseudoterm] is out to "destroy Trump" and keep him from 'making America great again'. (See the 'Q' / QAnon viral online conspiracy which has recently manifested 'in reality' at Trump rallies w/ T-shirts, signs, banners & costumes) Of course, there really is a shadow government and deep state; it's just not of the precise nature or scope that a typical 2018 Trumpkin or Q-Bot comprehends it to be; nor is Trump, just a passing figurehead in the scheme of things, going to make any lasting impact on how the shadow government or deep state conducts business. It's simply that, in the November 2016 election, the shadow government and deep state had its allegiance 100% attached to the Clinton campaign (evidenced by stuff already well documented, linked and discussed in Portland Indy's pages). Mueller's investigation shows and is, in effect, the final irrefutable proof of that. She was *supposed* to have won (otherwise none of the FBI investigation / machinations / dossier-UK spy falderal were ever intended to have come to light). Right wingers' hobby horse, the "Leftist media", also sometimes called the "Main Stream Media" or "MSM" in right wing circles is never referred to or identified by its correct taxonomic label: corporate-owned mass media. Yes, to varying degrees perhaps, the U.S. corporate mass media could ? and does at times (when the end corporate or strategic power goal might happen to suit them) editorialise on and 'side with' the identity politics ranks of leftism; but of course being corporate, the entire overall editorial and informational mission of corporate mass media is enforcement and support of the business and capital-owning class; which makes the 'MSM' and 'leftist media' euphemisms so earnestly shared among right wingers that much more ironic and a form of cognitive dissonance.

American Leftists, in seeing the supposed 'atrocities' occurring under the post-November-9th-2016 regime, have now reverted to an even more trenchant version of the identity politics that have been embraced in the post-1980s Reagan-Bush era. Obama 2008-2016 (even in spite of sporadic awareness blips such as the Occupy Movement) further induced a complacency that Identity Politics itself was 'sufficient' and progressive enough, to 'prove' (and also 'convince' rank-&-filers when it comes to Democratic Party politics) that successful gains were being made "on behalf of the people".... When in fact, the Obama regime was just a nicer-face, "kindly" version of the legislative-executive-judicial programs enacted under Three Decades' worth of Reagan-George-Herbert-Walker-Bush (<-- latter was the *actual* president under 8 yrs of Reagan), Clinton, and Shrub. Of course, 9/11 was a defining event as well, and for more than a decade virtually no Democrats refused to go along with either the Global War On Terror or the USA Patriot Act (not to mention the illegal military occupations and invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq). Even though the Iraq-Afghanistan illegal military occupations continue today, along with a much-increased drone attacks on other countries via the Obama administration, no anti-war or anti-globalist movement has emerged among the American Left. They are, in a true sense, rendered and proven impotent in the post-9/11 era.
Addendum to Iraq: for all of Trump's faults and buffoonery, he is the only major political figure — and the only U.S. billionaire — I'm aware of who has, for years consistently and directly expressed sympathy and concern for the millions of dead citizens of that country:
( I absolutely do not in any way "like" or condone Trump but ^ these comments of his as a U.S. citizen must be factually acknowledged particularly in light of his status and media visibility )

Nothing wrong with or 'pointless' about local community activism. (i.e. "think globally act locally") I still believe in <-- that *concept*. But don't go confusing Identity Politics  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/08/436545.shtml
with a true class-based anti-war, anti-corporate or -globalist movement, which I have not seen a trace of from the Left in going on 2 decades now. ( If all the 'activists' are rich Yuppie Tech Bros or sons/daughters of, then what kind of movement is that?
Then, take a look at the Democratic Party...  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/09/433219.shtml )
Furthermore, it's going to take a lot more than 'popular' community-based movements to take down / take OUT the shadow government and deep state (which are *not* elected or even necessarily 'political' entities, but rather embedded sinew and DNA of the acting U.S. regime irrespective of legislative/executive/judicial branch occupation personnel).

I know, TLDR (too long didn't read)... if you do read ^ it you'll understand largely where I'm coming from. Beast, and how ? to kill it: Do I claim to have the answers on "how"? Certainly not. But my description of the existing situation is germane.

the derp state 23.Aug.2018 16:25


The entire deep state idea is such nonsense that I'm surprised it still gets tossed around as some sort of legitimate concern. I expect that kind of crap from Hannity and Alex Jones. Shame to see it here.

If there was a deep state, Trump would have never gotten elected in the first place.

Clyde the intentionally obtuse Troll isn't going to get off that easily. 23.Aug.2018 17:01


the shadow government and deep state [<-- which isn't the Trumpkins' rhetorical "Deep State") run and direct this country. Unelected entities.

Legislative / executive / judicial branches of U.S. goverment are mere appendages for open public display (and offering an illusion that Americans are 'governed' by those 3). Policy and geopolitical goals are implemented and achieved over a long-term, multi-administrational arc with continuity ensured by the shadow government ("Federal Reserve" which is neither of those two words, tri-letter intel-surveillance-LE agencies CIA/IRS/FBI/NSA, policy wonk-tanks like CFR) and deep state (MIC, corporate lobbyists, political lobbyists for key U.S. allies, offshore accounts<—>Wall Street+"Federal Reserve").

watch the ex-CIA agent whistelblower Kevin Shipp videos linked ^^ above.

and see:
HERE— >  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/08/436606.shtml#453773

ex-Congressional aide Mike Lofgren on the Deep State: 23.Aug.2018 17:10

NOTHING to do with "Hannity/Alex Jones"

[ apart from the ex-CIA agent whistelblower Kevin Shipp videos linked ^^ above, where Shipp provides his definitions of shadow government and deep state. ]


Controlled by shadow government: Mike Lofgren reveals how top U.S. officials are at the mercy of the "deep state"
 link to www.salon.com

How the Powers That Be Maintain the "Deep State": An Interview With Mike Lofgren
 link to truthout.org


These paradoxes, both within the government and within the ostensibly private economy, are related. They are symptoms of a shadow government ruling the United States that pays little heed to the plain words of the Constitution. Its governing philosophy profoundly influences foreign and national security policy and such domestic matters as spending priorities, trade, investment, income inequality, privatization of government services, media presentation of news, and the whole meaning and worth of citizens' participation in their government.

I have come to call this shadow government the Deep State. The term was actually coined in Turkey, and is said to be a system composed of high-level elements within the intelligence services, military, security, judiciary, and organized crime. In John le Carré's recent novel, A Delicate Truth, a character in the book describes the Deep State as "the ever-expanding circle of non-governmental insiders from banking, industry and commerce who were cleared for highly classified information denied to large swathes of Whitehall and Westminster." I use the term to mean a hybrid association of key elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States with only limited reference to the consent of the governed as normally expressed through elections.

The Deep State is the big story of our time. It is the red thread that runs through the war on terrorism and the militarization of foreign policy, the financialization and deindustrialization of the American economy, the rise of a plutocratic social structure that has given us the most unequal society in almost a century, and the political dysfunction that has paralyzed day-to-day governance.


RE: "Trump would have never gotten elected in the first place" — 23.Aug.2018 17:24


the shadow government and deep state campaigned 100%, 24-7 for his opponent during 2016. All day, all night, all year long.

not only major GOP elites and Republicans casting their votes/support for Clinton; also Wall Street elites and corporations who contributed millions $$$ to concerted efforts at sabotaging his campaign and impending possible nomination prior to the GOP convention, most key elements of the tri-letter deep state (CIA, FBI, NSA officials) to (of course) the U.S. corporate mass media which had been forecasting and predicting Hillary's landslide all along.

Sure, they could have gone all 1960s-CIA-Castro on him and attempted to poison his room service tray..... But short of that (or some other physical violent assassin-attempt), and the dossier/"Russiagate" (which kicked in, via U.S. corporate mass media, right around the time of the summer 2016 party nominee conventions; and machinations around which were **NEVER** supposed to see public view because, Hillary was 'going to be President') — how else were they supposed to oppose or impede his largely self-financed presidential bid? 'Offing' him simply wouldn't have looked too good or been easy to 'pass off'/explain.

That is why it was such a shock to have seen Trump victory on November 9th.

DT was *not* supposed to win.

Trump doesn't now (esp. after winning the Nov 2016 election) have to rhetorically mention the "deep state" because, he is living proof that their wishes to have a certain candidate in White House don't *always* come true.

And as documented ^ above: Shadow government and deep state are unlected entities. Even if a 'radical' such as DT shows up, he can't take them all on or root them all out (no matter how appealing the general idea of that might ?? be to DT himself or his supporters), certainly not during his relatively brief term in office. Shadow gov and deep state are so deeply and powerfully embedded within-throughout, and actually underpin the entire structure of, U.S. government that they don't worry about such passing fads as Trump.

sure 24.Aug.2018 11:46


So the supposed deep state, with its shadowy tendrils in all aspects of American political and economic life, wanted Hillary to win and "campaigned 100%, 24-7" for her candidacy, with the help of the all powerful media, as you claim. And Trump still won. Doesn't really seem like the deep state is much of anything, does it?

But that won't stop the Alex Jones and Hannity nutjobs from crowing about how it is plotting to take down Trump.

Clyde, did you read all of the ^ above / watch Shipp's videos? 24.Aug.2018 15:46


Clyde Wrote: "Trump still won. Doesn't really seem like the deep state is much of anything, does it?"

Reading Comprehension is a thing.

Trump's victory was a shoe-in? Is that what you are asserting? Or that Hillary was a 'Manuchurian' who was *programmed to lose* to DT? Name your conspiracy theory, 'Clyde': sorry your girl lost. Hillary Clinton was *the* establishment candidate and had full support from Lockheed Martin/military-industrial-complex, U.S. corporate mass media, elite Republicans and the RNC (who did not want DT to be nominee - Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio were the "sure bets" on the GOP side), et cetera - already discussed. She was the candidate who had the greatest credentials (State Deptartment, as Secretary of State and former White House First Lady during <-- which time she served as Aide-De-Camp for Bill Clinton, as she also served during BC's governership of Arkansas: and look up Mena, Arkansas airport.)

Hillary Clinton was one of the most abysmally poor presidential candidates in U.S. history, however. That gave Trump an advantage especially when combined with his direct strategy to campaign the economically run down white working class vote in areas where the Clinton machine had avoided campaigning in the past (Bill Clinton's earlier campaigns included). It really did look, even to Trump himself (particularly evident from his sidelong remarks during the October 2016 campaign stump speeches), that he might lose the entire campaign, with all of the incessant attacks in U.S. corporate mass media and the deluge of 'Hillary by 85%' polling results being reported at that juncture. Anyway the 2016 campaign and Trump have been extensively discussed elsewhere on Indymedia:  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/08/436593.shtml#453600

RE: Hannity/Jones, QAnon 'conspiracy' the typical Trumpkin's regurgitation of [quote DT's Voice] "Deep State" pseudoterm see:
HERE— >  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/08/436606.shtml#453773
it is BULLSHIT rhetoric that the Garden Variety Trumpkin believes; a cloaked, indeterminate "Deep State" is out to "destroy Trump" and keep him from 'making America great again'. Sure, Trump may assert that perhaps elements of the Justice Dept/FBI, and corporate media are 'out to get him'... but ^^ **AS ALREADY DISCUSSED ABOVE** ^^ :

Trump's own term is just a passing phase. There are many more parts to the Unelected deep state and shadow government (than just an evil DoJ-FBI and CNN-corp media that "hate" DT because he won the 2016 election) which will continue their policy and geopolitical influence and machinations beyond the term of merely one president.

Read Mike Lofgren (^^ *posted above* ^^) and watch whistleblower Kevin Shipp's videos (^^ *posted above* ^^), in addition to the Peter Dale Scott interviews and other information already provided.

no argument there 24.Aug.2018 19:13


"Hillary Clinton was one of the most abysmally poor presidential candidates in U.S. history"

I won't argue that for a moment. I was not, at any time, a Clinton fan.

Also, what do you make of the Qanon thing? I was going to ask you a while back and got sidetracked. Do you think it's a massive troll campaign, or do you think it is someone who is genuinely convinced they have some weird, cryptic insider info?

RE: 'Q' / QAnon — 24.Aug.2018 19:50


it is just more LARPing, probably some random 4chan user. ( 'LARP' = Live Action Role Playing )
No I don't believe that the 'Q' randomly posting online, is somehow an insider or "connected" to Trump's cabinet-administration.

anyway, the 'Q' mythology feeds not only in to the "Trump is REELY, REELY on our side" populist B.S. for a typical Trump supporter/voter.... it also functions to bolster the whole Trump is somehow 'at war with Deep State' [<--as noted ^above/previously this is mere rhetoric for Trumpkin consumption] concept.

Yeah sure (as mentioned ^^^above) there are elements of the deep state which appear to be entrenched "against" Trump (and prior to the Nov 2016 election results were obviously and proven-aligned with many other elite establishment institutions, Wall Street, MIC, corporate mass media et cetera to keep him being both nominated, and elected) now that he is in office. The Mueller investigation — its target entities and convoluted objects were never supposed to have been 'exposed' anyway due to Hillary as designated victor — is further evidence of this from the Department of Justice side of things. Also, ranks of the Obama-era FBI, some of the CIA/NSA etc.

But beyond that ( as for example John Steppling notes  http://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/24/the-anti-president/ ), Trump is continuing to do the bidding of — and is not impeding overall — the shadow government and deep state policy, geopolitical strategies which are pan-presidential administration. And finally, there's no way — as the QAnon ***ds fervently believe — that the "Swamp" will be drained or their rhetorical 'Deep State' will be somehow 'finished off' during either Trump's own time in office, or lifetime.

yep 24.Aug.2018 20:48


I started off assuming it was just a joke or troll campaign originating from 4chan which surprisingly gained traction (especially on Twitter, where it has really gained a foothold).

Then I started seeing Q flyers and shirts at Trump rallies and I wonder if others have picked up the cause and are posting their own "Q" messages, or if there really is just 1 or 2 folks who are still behind it, laughing and tugging the strings.

It is kind of insane how much weight people give the crypto-nonsensical postings attributed to Q. They really don't say anything of substance, ever. It's vague and just hints at things while attempting to seem profound.

Anyway, just one more weird log to throw on the bizarro bonfire we're living through. Someone is going to write a hell of a book about this 4 year period, no matter how it turns out.

agree (about the bizarro "politics" in USA at present) 24.Aug.2018 21:07


yeah the Trumpkins are definitely displaying their Mental Defective League when you see things like 'QAnon' t-shirts at the recent rallies. Bat**** crazy.

As you note the Q live-action-role-play is nothing but vague hints with Nostradamus-like flavorings sprinkled throughout. The Q schtick is so obviously an online troll-job.... but problem is, so many people (irrespective of political leaning) are "online"-oriented these days.... from Facebook, to the mobiles/iPhones in everyone's hands 24-7.... hundreds of millions are addicted. Additionally, the younger-generation (generally under-40 yrs old) folk are 'hip' to, matters not what their political left/right leanings might be. Memes circulate online like wildfire (especially with help from visual-based social media like Twitter, Instagram, FB etc.)

also since 'Q' itself emerged from 4chan, same place as Pepe The Frog (which really and provably *did* assist with Donald Trump's victory in Nov 2016 among the under-40 rightwing voter crowd), the QAnon audience is already 'converted' and Ready For Prime Time, in a sense.

Moreover, a whole bunch of 4channers, Republicans, and rightwing leaning Americans come from fundamentalist Christian backgrounds and upbringing which gives them an even higher propensity to swallow 'prophetic' conspiracy-laced "predictions" (esp. regarding Trump who "saved" us all from the "evil Hillary/Democrats"). Seen constantly in political social media postings (with non-Q or even non-Trump related topics).

further to ^ 24.Aug.2018 19:50 discussion, John Steppling article link : 30.Aug.2018 23:39


( RE: despite "Q", Trump affirms+continues shadow gov/deep state )

more Peter Dale Scott ( see also ^^-posted 22.Aug.2018 01:32 video interviews ) 04.Sep.2018 03:43

David Rose

The CIA 9/11 criminal paper trail. A Peter Dale Scott lecture

Published on Sep 9, 2013