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U.S. Citizens not allowed to bring children to prison

U.S. Citizens sentenced to prison are having their children ripped from their arms, pulling apart families.
The Trump administration has extended this cruel practice to citizens, not just immigrants.

Thanks for the 'translation' of rAT's earlier Newswire post 18.Jun.2018 13:38

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More to this story 18.Jun.2018 14:07

A.Z.

Yes, it is well known that when parents go to prison in this country, if a friend or relative is not found who can take over care for their children, the children are handed over to the state. Children cannot be kept in

You might not be informed. What is happening at the U.S. Mexican border now cannot be authentically compared to what you pose in your post. Many of these migrant parents from Mexico and Latin America are seeking asylum. Under the Obama Admin, families were kept together while their status was being determined. APPLYING FOR ASYLUM IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW.

Why are children be taken from their families under Trump? The U.S. has to date lost track of over 2,000 immigrant children that have been released from detention centers. Many of these children were released to sex and forced labor trafficker.And there is a whole world of information available that imports the differences that go beyond a simple post.

PLEASE read these articles.

 https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents
 http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-migrant-shelter-20180614-story.html
 https://www.apnews.com/133271c91ef746bc83a43ba8e31aad1d
 https://www.apnews.com/9794de32d39d4c6f89fbefaea3780769
 https://www.thenation.com/article/what-overcrowded-holding-center-migrant-children-looks/

And so many more stories. Just look for them. And I don't know what good citizen cannot see this situation as a terrorist act.

. 18.Jun.2018 14:22

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That POS trump is holding kids hostage as a negotiation tool to get his wall built.That's what this is all about.

erasmus 19.Jun.2018 14:50

explain further

A Z
You misstated something, let me correct: Applying for asylum is not illegal, crossing the border is and that's why the adults are being detained. This is clearly stated in the first video link you sent. All countries have the same laws regarding border crossings, some countries you could get shot for doing it.

You said: Many of these children were released to sex and forced labor traffickers
What evidence do you have for that? How does the system work? Does a traffickers simply go to a detention center and pick out a child like a dog at the pound? Are the kids shoved outside while traffickers wait and then snatch them up? What system is there to reunite kids with parents? If they are being released to the people they originally arrived with then it suggests those people are traffickers. If traffickers are bringing children to the border and requesting asylum then maybe separating children from them is a good thing to do until it is determined they are with their real parents. Send documented evidence this is happening the way you claim.

How does separating children from immigrant parents give Trump leverage to build the wall? This has been a PR nightmare for him and the policy for separating children from parents pre dates him and was going on in the Obama era. Please explain how the process works that would make this situation a tool to "build the wall".

Also, explain why the enormous skewed gender ratio. Viewing videos of detention centers, it's clear that the detainees are virtually all male.  link to www.tampabay.com
I've seen very few photos or videos of girls. Why is that? Are the girls back in the home country facing those horrors while they boys escape? Most detainees also seem to be in the 15-17 yr. age range, very few younger and many look like they could be adults. It's very common for migrants, especially men, to claim to be children. So how do you determine who is a real child or not? If adult men are categorized as children then they can get access to high school children in the US. Don't you think the safety of real children in the US is important?  https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/07/adult-illegal-immigrants-posing-children-enroll-high-school-ryan-lovelace/

The 2nd link you sent addresses the issue, a little, in this paragraph: "Staff suspected some of their charges were adults posing as children, he said they were listed in records as "possible adults." They had discovered men as old as 26 posing as adolescents, he said. But the way staff handle those suspicions can also cause problems, he said".

The 2nd link story also referred to some of the issues these detention centers have to deal with: "Recently, staff questioned a Guatemalan migrant who said he was 13 and had come to the U.S. to join his father. Davidson said the boy was telling the truth, but a DNA test showed that the man he thought was his father wasn't. After officials told the man the boy's true paternity, the man "didn't want anything to do with him," Davidson said".

The 3rd link story had nothing of substance, just some comments by a UN ambassador and a couple of other grandstanding politicos.

The 4th link story describes a detention center that has been divided into family groups and lone children. It doesn't appear they are separating all families with children, just when there are suspicious circumstances. Considering there could be traffickers exploiting children it's not an unreasonable thing to do.

The 5th and last story talks about conditions at the detention centers. Could be they need to put more money into the facilities to handle increased numbers of people. Not unreasonable to talk about.

You sent those links to prove this was some sort of monstrous conspiracy by Trump but reading through them it's clear there's much more to this story than the simplistic mainstream stories and poseurs like Merkley and Wyden are telling us.


There may well be legitimate reasons to separate and hold child migrants for some time, not only for the safety of US children but the children of the migrants themselves. There is some kind of campaign to characterize these kids as being cruelly tormented but there is not evidence of maltreatment, just a lot of hype and hysteria.

@ is for 19.Jun.2018 17:39

anarchy

Erasmus if you think that this is a bunch of hype and hysteria then you haven't been paying attention. Please tell us how forcing 3 year olds from the arms to their parents is not maltreatment. How is keeping migrant kids in cages not child abuse. And are you so dense that you can't figure out why there's only pics of older males coming out? And yeah, where are the girls???? Duh. figure it the fuck out.You need to start paying attention because you are fucking dense. Parents have been deported and their kids are still here in kid prisons. Why???

And what, you think that traffickers arrive with a big sign over their heads saying they want kids to pimp out?

You are funny.

@erasmus 19.Jun.2018 19:27

A.Z.

First thank you for responding in a measured and respectful tone! Not a lot of that going around these days.

Hey anarchy, kick it down a couple of notches.

I probably won't be back on the Internet tonight but want to respond with some new develpments and to answer one question. You are not the only one asking where the immigrant girls are. A LOT of people began asking this question. One of the tactics used by Trump to satisfy his base regarding Latinos is well known "they're rapists, drug dealers..." Yes, but not all. He always brings up the gang from El Salvador MS 13. Yes, they are brutal and violent. But they have been in this country since 1980. Why did Trump suddenly pull their name into his campaign propaganda only two years ago? I think one would have to be blind to not understand that there is great advantage for him to criminalize brown male bodies. I wager that the only images that media is allowed to film are young brown skinned males in detention centers. Four year old girls crying hysterically for mommy would not be a profitable image for those making a lot of money running detention centers. Be honest, what do people think of when people see brown men in cages? They think gangs. So they must belong in cages. It has been broadcast since the weekend that cameras nor reporters nor politicians are allowed in the centers. Images released are determined by those profiting from this travesty. Why? Why can't we see what's going on in there?

Also Erasmus, the questions you asked are easily found if you can do your own search. It's not like I'm making this up. And yes, crossing the border at points other than asylum ports is illegal. Bu, previously it was a misdemeanor. And families were not without question, clear explanation or plan separated. The act of tearing children away from their parents with no explained plan, reason or truthful answers is traumatizing for these families. There are still no translators for the Indigenous dialects at the border yet, not that I have heard of anyway. Spanish is only one of a number of languages spoken by these migrants.

You may not have heard these recordings of little girls from Guatemala and El Slavador - the two countries where scores flee to see asylum. And you can research this, don't wait for me:

 https://www.cbsnews.com/video/lawyer-reveals-details-about-audio-of-crying-children-purportedly-detained-at-border/

And I nearly shit when I saw this. Amazing:  link to www.businessinsider.com

This is all I have for now.

. 19.Jun.2018 20:13

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heartless pigs. this is america. because to them brown lives don't matter.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/politics/corey-lewandowski-undocumented-immigrant-womp-womp/index.html

How about some actual info with no swearing 19.Jun.2018 22:40

Erasmus

to anarchy:
OK, since I am the dense one and you are the brilliant one, I'd think you would have a plenty of actual facts to supply instead of insults, but hey, I guess calling someone stupid must be a sign of a superior mind. Keep telling yourself that Mr. anarchy, you might actually start to believe it.

Humor me anarchy, tell me where the girls are. In fact, send me your research on the male/female ratio of these migrants. I'll be waiting...

How are 3 yr. old being "forced" out of parents arms? They are the ones coming here attempting to migrate to the US, if they don't want to lose their children then don't come here. Funny, I didn't see one 3 yr. old in any videos of photos of detention children. Can you give me any documented cases of 3 yr. olds being forced from parents arms? Can you verify it's an actual parent? Do you have some ground zero evidence to prove this is going on?

A lot of this shit is staged. I can give you verifiable examples: Check out this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTjsz2keMm0
Then read this article:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-migrant-caravan-us-border-tijuana-donald-trump-dhs-warn-asylum-fraud/
Watch live videos on Youtube recorded by people not connected to the mainstream media (otherwise you will get zoom ins on the few women and children trying to create the impression it isn't 95% young men) and you can clearly see the Mexican caravan was composed of almost all young males. Then when they arrive at the border magically there are over 100 women and children at the forefront! Viola! How did a caravan of men suddenly turn into women and children? C'mon anarchy, think real hard here... use that superior mind to come up with some rationalization! Here, I'll help, the orchestrators of the caravan are sharply aware of the enormous disproportion of men so they held the men back, then gathered the few women and children and put them at the forefront, maybe even recruited some local ones, in order to make it seem like it's all women and children trying to migrate, not a bunch of dudes. You have an alternate explanation Mr. anarchy?

There's a lot of issues with immigration that our glorious SJW community refuses to address, starting with the issue of worldwide birth patterns. In the 1st world, native populations are stable or dropping in many countries, in the 3rd world populations are exploding and the 3rd world is going to double in size in the next 50 yrs. 1st world population are going to nearly double also, but that's entirely due to migration from the 3rd world. This migration is being financed and orchestrated by the wealthy elites, using tools like the EU and UN, in order to keep economic indicators going up and up, if you don't have population growth, you don't have economic growth. A growing population keeps real estate and the stock market booming, expands consumer and tax bases so it's a benefit to government bureaucracies also. The fact that the Western powers are behind most true conflict refugees doesn't come up in the Western media, in fact, it was the O'Hillary evil access that bombed the hell out of Libya which created the refugee crisis in that country, then Hillary had the nerve to step forward to the Libyan during her staged debate with Trump and told them "You're welcome in my country" (I watched it happen), nobody seemed to realize it was Hillary that cut the orders as Sect. of State and ultimately caused the deaths of 100's of thousands. So there you go, mass murdering politicians use their support of immigration to mask their genocidal acts, and the public eats it up and obsesses about these "detention centers".

I digress, back to birth patterns. Overpopulation, environmental degradation are the two most critical issues facing humanity today, if we destroy the world of nature then human life will cease to exist on this planet, we will in effect, destroy ourselves. What do you think the world will be like in 50 yrs. with 19 billion people? We may be dead then but our children and grandchildren will still be here. What do you think will happen to the last remaining rainforests and endangered species?

Do you want to know where the ideology of population growth through immigration comes from? From right wing capitalist organizations like the Manhattan Institute:  https://www.manhattan-institute.org/other/immigration
Oh yes, when capitalist think tanks are promoting something, you know it's for the benefit of the rich power brokers. Just think Mr. anarchy, whenever you mindlessly repeat immigrant/diversity catchphrases and fling racist accusations around, you are doing a service for the elites you claim to be fighting against. Does it ever dawn on you that you're their pawn?

If you truly want to make a difference then perhaps you should be focused on economic justice for all people in the world, not just the 1st world and any 3rd worlders than can somehow get to a 1st world country. Perhaps you should be focused on family planning overseas, female empowerment and sustainable economies. Maybe we should recognize that living in the 1st world is not necessarily a paradise, people from the 3rd world are living perfectly valid lifestyles and aspiring to be a "consumer" is something they have been propagandized into falsely believing they need for happiness and fulfillment.

Yes, I'm looking at the bigger picture here, but that's because the bigger picture is important to understand so you can put issues like these detention centers into perspective. This is an attack on Trump, who certainly deserves to be attacked on most of his issues (but so did Obama), but the reality here is that the kids will eventually get back to their parents, go on with life and be just fine. We are being distracted here folks, but it's just another in a long line of distractions designed to keep us from peeking behind the curtain.



One more thing about gender ratios and immigration. The 3rd world has the ability to ship surplus men to the 1st indefinitely and it will. Educate yourself about what happened in Europe when Europe, especially German and Sweden opened their doors:  https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/europe-refugees-migrant-crisis-men-213500
 https://legalinsurrection.com/2016/01/mass-migration-gives-sweden-male-gender-imbalance-worse-than-china/
Yes, Sweden now has 123 men for every 100 women, and these men are concentrated in the 20 something year age group. Wow, can you imagine the manginas in Sweden that allowed this to happen? Do you want that to happen here in the US Mr. anarchy? If we don't have immigration controls it's exactly what will happen. I don't know if you're a woman or a homosexual male (they will want these men here) but there is no way that straight men can allow this to happen. You have to understand that many Asian countries practice female infanticide and Muslim and African countries practice polygamy, this produces too many wifeless men, and many of those men target the West to find wives. We cannot let that occur. It's not PC to talk about these things in the US but that's because the powers that want population growth will not allow it to be part of the public debate.

Are you sure you're really an anarchist Mr. anarchy? Or just a naive poseur? If a dense clod like me can figure this all out, why can't you?

(RE: "Trump! / Sessions!") Year 2014 pic from the memory hole 20.Jun.2018 07:29

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Priceless 20.Jun.2018 14:26

A.Z.

With chants of "shame" and "end family separation," protesters shouted at Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen as she dined at a Mexican restaurant in Washington, DC.
Protesters from the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America came into MXDC Cocina Mexicana, a popular restaurant near the White House, holding signs and confronted Nielsen on Tuesday night.

The secretary had been sitting at the back of the restaurant and had a security detail at the time of the protest.
Nielsen was seen sitting quietly and later, talking on the phone in the video posted by the group, as protesters booed and peppered her with questions.

"Aren't you a mother, too?"
"How do you sleep at night?"
"Do you hear the babies crying?"
"If kids don't eat in peace, you don't eat in peace," they chanted.

No borders! No walls! Sanctuary for all!"

After about 10 minutes, Nielsen left the restaurant and got into an SUV."The irony isn't lost on us that this is a Mexican restaurant," the group posted on its Facebook page. "Nielsen has led the program to tear apart families. We are here to tell her to put an end to separating families, to step down as head of the department, and that ICE and CBP must be abolished."
The group posted the video on its Facebook page and in a release to the media.
"We will not stand by and let Sec. Nielsen dine in peace, while she is directing her employees to tear little girls away from their mothers and crying boys away from their fathers at our border," Margaret McLaughlin, a member of the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America steering committee, said in a statement.
DC Metro Police was called to the incident but referred questions to the Secret Service. There hasn't been comment yet from the Secret Service.
DHS spokesman Tyler Houlton tweeted that Nielsen was having a work dinner when she heard from "a small group of protesters."

The protest came as Nielsen is becoming the face of one of the Trump administration's most controversial policies. She appeared in a Monday press briefing to defend the practice of separating parents from children at the border after images of children being kept in chain-link cages dominated news coverage and prompted widespread outrage from Democrats and Republicans.
Critics said she did little to answer their questions about the zero-tolerance policy as she, at times, contradicted what other administration officials have said regarding whether it was aimed at deterring other immigrants from crossing the border illegally.
President Donald Trump lauded her, tweeting on Tuesday that she "did a fabulous job" in the press conference.

Video here:  https://www.facebook.com/MetroDCDSA/posts/803611493171511

Kids in cages? Truth or lies? 20.Jun.2018 17:05

Erasmus

A.Z.
I was suspicious of the "kids in cages" stories. Get something that more closely approximates truth here:  https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/us/photo-migrant-child-cage-trnd/index.html
Stories that sound bizarre are often media creations, and that's what the kids in cages story is. Even if there was some truth to it, how do you know there weren't valid reason for isolating some "children". Did you actually read that article you sent to me that mentioned how adult males masquerading as children needed to be weeded out? Maybe they determined some were dangerous and had to isolate them temporarily. How do you know some kids aren't violent and dangerous to other children? Has anybody investigated and asked questions about what's really going on? Simplistic, hysterical articles are usually designed to manipulate, not be truthful.

Keep in mind what I wrote in my previous comment, if you even read it. Neither you or Mr. anarchy have chosen to address anything I wrote but keep in mind my essential point. Mass immigration from the 3rd world to the 1st serves the interests of the wealthy elite power brokers, they are financing and orchestrating it. I don't believe Trump is racist, but he is very much in alignment with the elitist class and should be being treated as a teflon President for his service to them, he does however, have one discordant note and that is his opposition to large scale illegal immigration into the U.S. It is one area he has not yielded based on his own personal belief system. I credit him for that, it's more spine than Obama ever showed in 8 years in office. I don't agree with Trump on much but I do think he is trying to do what he believes is right on this issue. Elements within the powerful elites who otherwise might fully support Trump are enraged that he is throwing a monkey wrench into their headlong rush to expand US population by mass importing 3rd world peoples. You can tell by the way the media has excoriated Trump that it is nearly universally in opposition to him on this subject, the CNN article is one of the few dissenting ones that I can find. When the media dog piles on like that you know public opinion is being manipulated by behind the scenes opinion manufacturers. I'd think you'd realize that is a big red flag that casts suspicion on this hysterical attack on Trump's immigration stance.

Immigrant families denied due process under Trump 20.Jun.2018 18:36

A.Z.

And the shit is hitting the fan. A handful of investigative reporters are going to sock up some Pulitzers on this. Trump is in deep shit and I am loving it.

That's it A.Z.???? 20.Jun.2018 18:50

Erasmus

A.Z. or anarchy
Still have no response to any of my points? Nothing? That's OK, I get this a lot from "progressives", when I try to expand their perspective they shut down, tell me they just want to "focus in on this one issue" and not think about issues that are just "too big to deal with". Then go back to obsessing over whatever the media has put in front of their faces and told them to think about.

RE: "Trump is in deep shit" 20.Jun.2018 19:11

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He is to sign an Executive Order which will overturn the parent-child separation policy,

but this itself will likely be disapproved by a judge.

then it will be up to Congress and the departments to administrate a (future) policy that deals with alien migrants and their children.


still think that, [QUOTE] "Trump is in deep shit" ?

erase erasmus 20.Jun.2018 21:43

Fuck you

Where is it written that AZ is required to respond to your dumb ass? I'd have tried of you long ago. Get over your brain dead self and go get your little self a life.

To the pretend anarchist 20.Jun.2018 22:51

Erasmus

to "anarchy"
Do you even know what anarchy means? No, of course not, otherwise you'd have some grasp of what I am talking about. You're just a mindless drone playing cool anarchy dude with no real understanding of the real world, playing at this makes you feel validated in some way but all you are is a posing ignoramus who actually serves the interests of the very powers he claims to be fighting against. You can't even begin to debate with me so compensate with foul language and personal attacks.

I never said anybody is "required" to respond, don't put words in my mouth. However, I can nudge and encourage if I want, if you still don't respond, then c'est la vie. Since you have nothing of substance to offer, please shut up and go away, I give you permission.

@ is for 21.Jun.2018 06:54

anarchy

Good morning Erasmus. First thing jumping out: Why are you assuming I am a male, loll? No worries, neither I nor my vagina are offended.

And goodness gracious! You are able to gleen SO MUCH about me from my very few sentences. What talent and insight!!

Also, allow me to clear your obvious confusion: I am not the sometime Indymedia commenter "Fuck you." Good old Fuck shows up occasionally with some zingers but haven't seen much of him/ her/other lately. But then I guess I am also not here often anymore.

And anarchism? Yes, I am well versed in the myriad of philosophies, fuck you very much. I have lived as an anarchist for decades now. I collectively run a business with other collectivist anarchists and we are all doing very well. There are tons of anarchist schools of thought stretching the globe over hundreds of years. We carry a rich and diverse militancy and I am proud to be among those numbers.

Also, I gotta say that IT PLEASES ME NO END THAT I HAVE FUCKED YOU ALL UP AND HAVE GOTTEN UNDER YOUR SKIN SO! Seriously, I am pissing myself and, thanks to you, will go on with my day stifling chuckles throughout.

I have no interest in debating you because you are a fucking idiot who has nothing of real substance to offer. Jesus. Do your own research and stop giving it over to others. Not our homework.

Okay Cupcake. Got a run. Wil come back later to read your usual nonsense which you will no doubt impart for WEEKS on this thread, to be sure.

Don't disappoint us now!

RE: "I am not the sometime Indymedia commenter "Fuck you." " 21.Jun.2018 11:10

Lol

clearing up 'confusion' indeed

what a JokeShop

To pretend anarchist 21.Jun.2018 11:11

Erasmus

Maybe you're not the fuck you guy, but you two are clearly kindred spirits, using obscenity and mindless personal attacks rather than reason and analysis are the only tactics you both have.

"How" do my comments lack substance? I've explained myself thoroughly and supplied links yet you claim I'm asking others to do research. Hmmm...other than asking you to send evidence about the so called kids in cages, or asking somebody to clarify or support themselves, I haven't asked anyone to do any.

Your childish delight in "getting under my skin" is immature and quite stupid. You haven't "gotten under my skin", you just claim that in order to make it seem like you're winning somehow, though how cursing someone out, refusing to respond to direct questions and then bragging about being an "anarchist" (when it's obvious you're just a poseur) is winning, then it must be the Charlie Sheen kind of winning.

What's funniest about debating your kind is that you duplicated exactly the kind of behavior right wing lugnuts do when arguing with people on the left of the spectrum. I'm sure you've argued with them before in your life and it's rather ironic that you now are doing exactly to me what they do to you. Refuse to debate, use rhetoric instead of reason, ignore facts and logic, and when all fails simply curse somebody out or ridicule them.

You're not an anarchist "anarchist", you just think you are.

props to Erasmus 21.Jun.2018 14:21

_

I may not agree with everything he says but at least (unlike many other regular commenters and article-posters here) he can clearly explain and back up his positions.

Final thoughts... 21.Jun.2018 19:32

Erasmus

Just for the record, I am in favor of free and open borders worldwide. If we lived in a better world that is. If we lived in a world where there was worldwide sustainable lifestyles, where no cultures that marry female child brides off to older males, no polygamous societies that treat young girls as slaves to be owned by older men, no female genital mutilation or female infanticide that has resulted in a genocide of 100's of million of women worldwide. If we lived in a world where women had economic self determination then the world would be closer to a place in which people wouldn't migrate because they've been coerced to or propagandized into believing they must.

Are you starting to see a pattern here Ms. Anarchy? Yes, the empowerment of women worldwide may be the single most key issue in "making the world a better place". Isn't that what we are working for?

So tell me Ms. anarchy, why aren't issues like these on the headlines? Why aren't you, especially as a woman, outraged that these issues are essentially ignored by the mainstream media? Instead we get massive hysteria about a few immigrant children (mostly boys) being temporarily separated from their parents. I don't know about you, but I think the genocide of 100's of millions of women in this world is a little more important.

I can tell you this much, whatever the mainstream corporate media has put in front of our faces has absolutely nothing to do with making the world better, whatever they're putting in the headlines only serves the interests of the wealthy elites, not the oppressed exploited peoples of the world. Watching Indymedia dance to the tune of corporate media hysteria is sad.

Here come the obscenities and ridicule....sigh...I tried.

. 22.Jun.2018 00:52

.

Hey there Erasmus. You are so screwed up on so many levels that it makes it difficult for anyone to rationally respond to you in so many says. Sorry about that and hopefully these are truly your real final thoughts. Otherwise, be prepared to be EATEN ALIVE.

RE: "low functioning / cross purposes / No wonder Indymedia fell apart!" : 22.Jun.2018 23:54

_

if people would just be able to have a legitimate online discussion.


But today (I've noticed the decline in this even compared to a decade or so ago...) people are so conditioned to the Twitter-sized 140-[or whatever]character response that no possibility of reasoned exchange exists, anymore. Or at least: people aren't willing to put in that required effort, to make it so.

in a broader way, I blame the rise of social media (as a primary mode of communication / the one familiar to most). When only Email was available in the 1990s/early 2000s, that format lent itself to more of a letter-like discourse and send-respond give and take. Now its all Hit-And-Run soundbite sized "comments" and retorts.

anyway this is how internet discourse (based on available platforms) seems to have evolved these days.