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Trump/Clinton Ticket Dividing Us Along Lines of Race?

The American establishment is making a huge mistake
Trump/Clinton Ticket Dividing Us Along Lines of Race?

By Lloyd Hart

The American establishment is making a huge mistake making this (S)election solely about race when white Americans are the least racist they have ever been and interracial marriage and coupling is at it's highest. Race is definitely part of the economic struggle's of families across the nation especially when you realize that if African Americans, Native Americans and Latin Americans were provided the same meager economic recovery whites got over the last seven years we would all be bearing down on the worker screwing economic record instead of the race bating dribble coming from the calcified geriatric lips of the Trump/Clinton ticket.

In the 1960s & 70s when Americans were the wealthiest as a result of low housing and energy costs Americans seemed to be the most generous when it came to social justice policy with the supreme court abolishing the death penalty. Young folk had money to go to college and college was affordable instead of classist and racist like it is today. It's institutional entrenched racism in policing, banking and municipal, state and federal institutions that is the real challenge today and not so much racism between Americans.

The only reason we are all "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" is because the national media is finally reporting what was routine police shootings. This is good but with the corporate media and the political, Military and financial establishment there is usually an underhanded reason why they are almost only talking about race.

It's simply that Hillary Clinton can't get (S)elected campaigning on the economy or foreign policy. The establishment can Electronic Jim Crow Clinton in, in some states but other states have cleaner harder to steal elections so the establishment needs a narrative to keep democratic party regulars inline. So they chose race and gave Trump and Clinton their marching orders when the majority of Americans want justice and yes racial justice in the economy, but it's a just economy that opens hearts and economic struggle that closes them.

2016 presidential election is a psyop, and more food for thought 25.Sep.2016 14:52


"Hands Up, Don't Shoot"?

Why do you not specifically call out the Black Lives Matter movement (as well as its organizing origins and sources of backing) in your piece entitled 'Dividing Us Along Lines of Race', Lloyd?

after all, it is they / their activism 'strategies' that have dominated the narrative in U.S. corporate mass media and establishment government for the past couple years, here. And caused the spinoff demonstrations / riots that (while not necessary in each instance 'organized' by BLM) are certainly the direct consequence.

But left activists of the 'grassroots' and-or otherwise self proclaimed "radical" variety refuse to acknowledge the utter futility of the BLM movement. As futile (in a different / 'opposite' ? context...) as those dudes in Malheur who recently went up against the BLM / Feds.

yeah Black Lives Matter has been a success. a Divide And Conquer success, rhetorically and conceptually for a generation of (so-called) leftists.

since leftists additionally absolutely refuse to acknowledge the death of the Democratic Party (I prefer to call them the Democrat - no 'ic' - since they do not resemble that adjective whatsoever in 2016) as representatives of either urban blacks or any-color working Americans ... witness only the utter corruption of the 2016 primaries, sabotaging Sanders + then asking his supporters to Vote Hillary.... along with refusing to be truly anti-corporate (even in the simple basic easy-to-comprehend TPP which should be absolutely opposed by anyone with even a single functioning brain cell), these leftists will indeed get their just desserts.
" well of course even though it's a ***t sandwich I gotta vote Democrat " ....

( for the moment we won't even talk about the 9/11 facade which persons of varying political leanings, despite claiming their own general 'intelligence' and rational comprehension of global events / politics, still refuse to acknowledge )

if anyone "gets Trump elected" 2016 it'll be Black Lives Matter. Thanks BLM !

Further reading and closely related topics recently posted on Portland Indymedia newswire :


2016 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign: One Big Psyop?

Democratic Party Attorneys Admit DNC Is Corrupt

Hillary Clinton 2016 — Hold Your Nose In The Bush!

Democrat Party: Alliance of Wealthy Whites + Low Income Ethnic Minorities

Black Lives Matter: Obama Has Failed Victims Of Racism And Police Brutality

Black Lives Don't Matter To Donald Trump Or Hillary Clinton

Houston Black Panther Quanell X Agrees With Trump, African-Americans Sold Out By Democrats

On Rhetoric And Strategy In Social Justice And Leftist Spaces

House Democrats Sing Civil Rights Anthem In Support Of Taking Away Our Civil Rights

1960s Icon Of Civil Rights Leads House Democrats In 'Sit Down' To Have Them Taken Away

What Is The Purpose or OBJECTIVE of Leftism / Left Ideology In USA 2016?

Like The Sixties Again, Except This Time With Dumbasses

Are Radical / Progressive Leftists Pragmatist, Ideologue Or Something Else?

Robert Kuttner — 'Hard To Believe, But Trump Could Win' and post-Occupy America

2008 Wall Street Bailout Treasury Sec. Paulson: "I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton"

Donald Trump Could Be The Military-Industrial Complex's Worst Nightmare

TPP and NAFTA: Trump Is Speaking Against, Will Cancel TPP

Chris Hedges, Robert Reich Agree That USA 3rd Party Is Needed

Why Revolution Is No Longer Possible

Corbett Report Episode 223 (from March 2012) - Revolution Impossible?

1996 — Author Roger Morris 'Partners in Power: The Clintons and Their America'

Unless the Democrats Run Sanders, A Trump Nomination Means a Trump Presidency

Protesters didn't stop Trump in Chicago. They helped him.

It's Official: 'Idiocracy' Co-Writer Says 2006 Satire Of Brain-Dead America Is Reality

Does It Even Matter Who Is (USA) President?

Pathology Incorporated; The Facade Of American Democracy

The Death Of Neoliberalism And The Crisis In Western Politics

Nine Reasons Why It Doesn't Matter Who Is President

The Death Of Neoliberalism And The Crisis In Western Politics 25.Sep.2016 15:00


Self-Righteousness And Left-Activism 25.Sep.2016 15:01


BLM Is A Movement Not An Organization. 25.Sep.2016 16:21


Yeah every movement will certainly be co-opted to some extent by the likes of George Soros -- That's a given. I am not a "left winger" since I am a social justice activist, and social justice proponents are simply normal people, so there is no "left wing". The "right wing" and "libertarianism" are simply socially engineered conspiracy constructs that mean nothing, and only serve to protect the Overlords and their hired Supervisors from the Peasants. It's all a big con job.

I don't know how racist Trump may be, probably less than a lot of people. He would likely create something of a police state, however. But he is the ONLY candidate or potential candidate who has publicly rejected the "need" for a war with Russia. Since I find some sort of police state, dreadful as it would be, preferable to Armageddon, I might even vote for the fool, though I probably won't vote at all. He reminds me of the clown Ronald Reagan. What a joke this "election has become.

I do hope BLM survives long enough to avoid total co-optation ant to evolve effectively.

We would not have this mess if we had strategic hedge simple score voting:

'movement', 'organization', 'nameplate', 'brand', 'hood ornament' 25.Sep.2016 16:30


whatever one chooses to call it, blues -

it was not identified in Lloyd's piece. His writing implies that it is the 2016 campaign which is serving to divide, when in fact the BLM divisions that exist will continue through this election cycle, throughout our society, institutions and culture (i.e. beyond politics / political campaigns).

in any case, BLM and its definition, constituency, efficacy etc. have all been extensively dissected in the linked articles above (and others) on PDX IMC; no need to rehash that.

Which major corporate party candidate for president 2016, is on the "side" of Black Lives Matter though? Neither? yep.

but by 'implication' or inference, the grand deception of it all is that somehow the Democratic Party (even if they really are not) is "on the same side" as the Black Lives Matter movement.

even when 60s civil rights icons, lead a Congressional 'sit down' to further remove rights of our citizens.

( see again and read closely the ^^above-linked articles )

Dear "_" Your Arguments Go Nowhere... 25.Sep.2016 18:16


Like, I'm expected to read at all those links? Really.

You are leading us on a path that goes absolutely nowhere. Just an excursion into an incoherent jungle.

Any useful ideas or plans?

Lol, and "Simple Score Voting" goes 'somewhere' ? 26.Sep.2016 00:01


you better get off your fat ass, blues because I'm telling ya that November 9th 2016 hangover ain't gonna help... neither will posting yet again on pdx imc about 'Simple Score Voting' for the n-millionth time.

blues wrote:
"Like, I'm expected to read at all those links? Really."

Yeah blues you are. That is —

if you could, for just one minute of time even extract your finger from your _ _ _ and simply comprehend several key pieces of great analytical interest, about the current state of U.S. and global politics, economics which have been posted for your very own convenience to this local newswire.

( and also presuming you have an attention span which exceeds that of the typical gnat. I would never presume anything about you, blues of course )

go ahead spend some valuable time browsing the conveniently linked recent posts to this newswire, about relevant topics to this discussion right here on this thread.

( I triple dog dare ya... )

RE: "useful ideas or plans" 26.Sep.2016 01:31


as hinted and implied by the topic headings of several previously-posted IMC pieces above —

one primary thing all of the left, including the so-called 'radical' (?? are they, after Battle In Seattle 1999 anymore?...) left should be doing is _examining_ themselves.
Particularly with regard to the present efficacy of their own ideology(ies), grassroots activism, actions, and organizing strategies and tactics.

Please refer to several of the above articles (which point out the post-2000s failure of globalist agendas, failure of UK / EU / USA democracies and political parties to maintain voter constituencies, decline of trust in mass corporate media which itself interlinks with corporate-controlled government entities, etc.) for more explanation and details.

After assimilating, mulling over and integrating some of ^that info: then it's up to you what is deemed 'useful'.

But the current path (Black Lives Matter demos, Bernie voters coerced into voting for Hillary / Democrat, posting incessantly about 'SSV' on PDX IMC etc.) is quite obviously not working, or ever going to work.

For the same reason we 26.Sep.2016 12:09

Lloyd Hart dadapop@dadapop.com

used Bernie's campaign to bring Native American grievances with the government and it's tentacles of corporations fore front and center. We used BLM to bring Native America and vice versa forward, we used Jill Stein as well to show the racial economic disparity on Black Reservations and Native Reservations. It's not planned, it's just what we do. Do you have a problem with that? We are white blood corpuscles to bad ideas and racial reservations are definitely one of them considering the men that created them are all long dead and were raging eugenicists with a flair for nazi fashion.

Let's see, last time an act of eugenics was launched was in Peru in the 1990s when then president Fujimori sterilized 350,000 Native Tribal women under the watchful eye of the Clinton Administration.

RE: "We used BLM" / "Do you have a problem with that" 26.Sep.2016 22:11


Use BLM all you want Lloyd.

all I'm saying is, BLM is by far the most goal-less and ineptly puppeted 'movement' I've seen in 50 years (which is around my age, and I've lived in 4 other countries — non-Western Europe ones — besides the U.S.)

What on Earth is its point? it is absolutely pathetic, ineffectual and an utter waste of time. Stupid in fact. Morons running around directionless in the streets exclaiming "__________". ( I gotta wonder on occasion about some of the BLM 'conspiracy theories' ..... none 'o' dat even causes me to lose a wink of restful shuteye, though.... ) Total ignorance and But if it 'empowers' you (in your mind, or makes you "feel" empowered) then more power to you.

Just don't come crying back here if, in fact by some backlash between now and November 9th 2016 your prophesied "Trump nightmare" comes true in part because of that candidate's constituency's response to BLM-and-all-it-hath-wrought.

don't say I didn't warn U either

Yeah, Simple Score Goes To Freedom And Democracy 27.Sep.2016 20:02


Strategic Hedge Simple Score Voting Is Our Key To Real Freedom.


What do you have against freedom?

Please, tell us 28.Sep.2016 12:04


So -, please tell us, since you seem to know so much about the Black Lives Matter movement, just what you have seen during the planning meetings--you've been to them, right? How else could you render such judgement?--and what steps you have taken with organizers, not just at rallies, but behind the scenes. I'd be interested to see if they are the same as mine.

(who is "you" and...) Do tell us your BLM 'experiences' Garth 28.Sep.2016 12:19


you first

I already explained ^^ to Lloyd the efficacy of BLM: tens of millions of American think it's an ineffectual joke (based on the riots, "standing up for" multiple-recidivist violent felons who are wife-and-child beaters, gun assaulters  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/09/433220.shtml#447923 etc.) BLM-ers actually think the police force(s) are going to 'go away' / disappear because of BLM's own ranting-tantrums. Lol good luck.

Millions more Americans jump on the anti-BLM bandwagon with each new "riot" (are they even, really??...) and defense/holding-up-for-'sainthood' of a prior-convicted violent felon wife-and-child beater / firearm-aggravated-assaulter. BLM is "really gaining support"!11!!!! .... It's beyond-pathetic joke.

What US population at large really thinks/receives a consequential impression of, from BLM's antics :

(merely but one aspect of) BLM ignorance :
(p.s. black male Americans have a 70+ percent greater chance of being killed or shot by another black male, than being shot by a police officer of _any_ ethnicity)

as to how BLM et al. might purportedly perform — as implied by Garth — 'organizational tasks', if this is the exterior manifestation/result then one can only imagine.......

John McWhorter: 28.Sep.2016 12:23


The reason Black Lives Matter has a lot of eyes rolling is not because people don't care about black people and don't understand the problem with police. The problem is that the typical black man in a particular kind of community is at much, much more risk of being killed by another black man. And you can't argue it away. There are all these sophisticated feints such as saying that there's a difference between the state murdering and citizens murdering. But none of it goes through.


Thanks, - 29.Sep.2016 07:09


Thanks for your comment, -. In other words, you are just speaking about something you know nothing about. Your explanations to Lloyd Hart have nothing to do with being involved with organizing. Hell, why don't you just go to an art museum and take credit for doing all the paintings since you looked at them? Well, you were honest in your final sentence: since all you do is observe a few marches, all you have left to do is imagine what happens the other 95% of the time spent organizing.

But I am truly grateful for all the wonderful paintings your have made.

No John 29.Sep.2016 07:12


Black on Black crime is at best a diversionary term, and it ignores the true issue which is institutional power. Simply put, Black people do not control the levers of state power that see police and vigilantes killing a Black person once every 28 hours.

Garth, you did not provide info on your claimed BLM 'organizing' 29.Sep.2016 09:39


Since you seem incapable of comprehension Garth,

for your convenience I'm going to post the entirety of one of the relevant articles (already was posted to the newswire) below. Perhaps you'll be able to obtain wisdom or data from it but evidently your mind and ideological focus is too rigid.


How the Gun Control Debate Ignores Black Lives

IMC Capsule Summary of article:
Gun control advocates and politicians frequently cite the statistic that more than 30 Americans are murdered with guns every day. What's rarely mentioned is that roughly 15 of the 30 are black men.

The number of Americans murdered by guns peaked in 1993, then dropped sharply until 2000 for reasons that are still not fully understood. Since then, the number of Americans killed in gun homicides has remained remarkably consistent, about 11,000 to 12,000 a year.

Another constant: About half of those killed this way are black men, though they make up just 6 percent of the U.S. population. In 2001, when George W. Bush took office, 5,279 black men were murdered with firearms, according to estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2012, it was 5,947.

These deaths are concentrated in poor, segregated neighborhoods that have little political clout.

Most of these men have criminal records. But it's not drug deals or turf wars that drives most of the shootings.

Instead, the violence often starts with what seems to outsiders like trivial stuff — "a fight over a girlfriend, a couple of words, a dispute over a dice game," said Vaughn Crandall, a senior strategist at the California Partnership for Safe Communities, which did the homicide analysis for Oakland.


How the Gun Control Debate Ignores Black Lives

By failing to talk about the majority of gun murder victims — black men — politicians and advocates are missing the chance to save lives.

by Lois Beckett, ProPublica
November 24, 2015

On a drizzly afternoon in January 2013, almost a month after the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, that left 20 first-graders dead, more than a dozen religious leaders assembled in Washington, D.C.

They had been invited by the Obama administration to talk about what the country should do to address gun violence. Vice President Joe Biden had been meeting with victims and advocates all day, and he arrived so late that some in the room wondered whether he would come at all. When he finally walked in, the clergy started sharing their advice, full of pain, some of it personal. "The incidents of Newtown are very tragic," Michael McBride, a 37-year-old pastor from Berkeley, California, recalled telling Biden. "But any meaningful conversation about addressing gun violence has to include urban gun violence."

McBride supported universal background checks. He supported an assault weapons ban. But he also wanted something else: a national push to save the lives of black men. In 2012, 90 people were killed in shootings like the ones in Newtown and Aurora, Colorado. That same year, nearly 6,000 black men were murdered with guns.

Many people viewed inner-city shootings as an intractable problem. But for two years, McBride had been spreading awareness about Ceasefire, a nearly two-decades-old strategy that had upended how police departments dealt with gang violence. Under Ceasefire, police teamed up with community leaders to identify the young men most at risk of shooting someone or being shot, talked to them directly about the risks they faced, offered them support, and promised a tough crackdown on the groups that continued shooting. In Boston, the city that developed Ceasefire, the average monthly number of youth homicides dropped by 63 percent in the two years after it was launched. The U.S. Department of Justice's "what works" website for crime policy had a green check mark next to Ceasefire, labeling it "effective" — the highest rating and one few programs received.

McBride wanted President Obama to make Ceasefire and similar programs part of his post-Newtown push to reduce gun violence. He had brought a short memo to give to White House staffers, outlining a plan to devote $500 million over five years to scaling such programs nationwide. His pitch to Biden that day was even simpler: Don't ignore that black children are dying too.

In response, the vice president agreed urban violence was very important, McBride said. But it was clear that "there was not a lot of appetite for that conversation by folks in the meeting," McBride recalled.

Michael McBride, a pastor who has been pushing the president and other politicians to increase support for programs like Ceasefire. (Deanne Fitzmaurice for ProPublica)

Later, other ministers who worked with McBride would get an even blunter assessment from a White House staffer: There was no political will in the country to address inner-city violence.

When McBride spoke to administration staffers again about dramatically increasing money for programs like Ceasefire, he said, "People were kind of looking at me like, 'Are you crazy?' No, I'm not crazy. This is your own recommendation. You should do it!"

Mass shootings, unsurprisingly, drive the national debate on gun violence. But as horrific as these massacres are, by most counts they represent less than 1 percent of all gun homicides. America's high rate of gun murders isn't caused by events like Sandy Hook or the shootings this fall at a community college in Oregon. It's fueled by a relentless drumbeat of deaths of black men.

Gun control advocates and politicians frequently cite the statistic that more than 30 Americans are murdered with guns every day. What's rarely mentioned is that roughly 15 of the 30 are black men.

Avoiding that fact has consequences. Twenty years of government-funded research has shown there are several promising strategies to prevent murders of black men, including Ceasefire. They don't require passing new gun laws, or an epic fight with the National Rifle Association. What they need — and often struggle to get — is political support and a bit of money.

A week after McBride and the other faith leaders met with Biden, Obama announced his national gun violence agenda. He called for universal background checks, which experts say could prevent some shootings. Other key elements of his plan — a ban on assault weapons and funding to put police officers in schools — were unlikely to save a significant number of lives.

President Obama signs executive actions on gun violence soon after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School. His gun platform included no money for the targeted urban violence strategies his own Justice Department described as effective. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty)

At the press conference where Obama announced the plan, a diverse group of four children sat on the podium with him: two girls and two boys who had written letters begging the president to do something about gun violence. "Hinna, a third-grader — you can go ahead and wave, Hinna—that's you — Hinna wrote, I feel terrible for the parents who lost their children. I love my country, and I want everybody to be happy and safe," the president said.

Obama went over the litany of school shootings — Columbine, Virginia Tech, Newtown — and made a brief nod to the deaths of "kids on street corners in Chicago." But his plan included no money for the urban violence strategies his Justice Department described as effective. His platform didn't refer to them at all.

McBride, who was in the audience, said he was not surprised. He supported the president's other proposals, and, when it came to urban violence, he had "realistic expectations." In his fight to save the lives of black men, McBride has kept running up against the same assumption: that "urban violence is a problem with black folk. It's not a problem for this country to solve."

Gun violence in America is largely a story of race and geography. Almost two-thirds of America's more than 30,000 annual gun deaths are suicides, most of them committed by white men. In 2009, the gun homicide rate for white Americans was 2 per 100,000 — about seven times as high as the rate for residents of Denmark, but a fraction of the rate for black Americans. In 2009, black Americans faced a gun homicide rate of nearly 15 per 100,000. That's higher than the gun homicide rate in Mexico.

To liberals, gun violence among African-Americans is rooted in economic disadvantage and inequality, as well as America's gun culture and lax gun laws. Conservatives, meanwhile, often focus on black "culture." "The problem is not our gun laws," a member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote last year about Chicago's murder rate. "Nor is it our drug laws, or racist cops, prosecutors and judges. The problem is black criminality, which is a function of black pathology, which ultimately stems from the breakdown of the black family."

Lost in the debate is that even in high-crime cities, the risk of gun violence is mostly concentrated among a small number of men. In Oakland, for instance, crime experts working with the police department a few years ago found that about 1,000 active members of a few dozen street groups drove most homicides. That's .3 percent of Oakland's population. And even within this subgroup, risk fluctuated according to feuds and other beefs. In practical terms, the experts found that over a given stretch of several months only about 50 to 100 men are at the highest risk of shooting someone or getting shot.

Black Americans Are Murdered by Guns at a Far Higher Rate Than All Other Races

Firearm homicide rates by race, 1993-2010 (Rate per 100,000 people)
American Indian/Alaska Native
Asian/Pacific Islander
Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System (WISQARS), 1993-2010. Via the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Most of these men have criminal records. But it's not drug deals or turf wars that drives most of the shootings.

Instead, the violence often starts with what seems to outsiders like trivial stuff — "a fight over a girlfriend, a couple of words, a dispute over a dice game," said Vaughn Crandall, a senior strategist at the California Partnership for Safe Communities, which did the homicide analysis for Oakland.

Somebody gets shot. These are men who do not trust the police to keep them safe, so "they take matters into their own hands," he said. It's long-running feuds, Crandall said, that drive most murders in Oakland.

Men involved in these conflicts may want a safer life, but it's hard for them to put their guns down. "The challenge is that there is no graceful way to bow out of the game," said Reygan Harmon, the director of Oakland Police Department's violence reduction program.

These insights led a group of Boston police, black ministers and academics to try a new approach in 1996. Since group dynamics were driving the violence, they decided to hold the groups accountable. The plan was simple: Identify the small groups of young men most likely to shoot or be shot. Call them in to meet face-to-face with police brass, former gang members, clergy and social workers. Explain to the invitees that they were at high risk of dying. Promise an immediate crackdown on every member of the next group that put a body on the ground — and immediate assistance for everyone who wanted help turning their lives around. Then follow up on those promises.

The results of Operation Ceasefire were dramatic. Soon after Boston held its first meeting — known as a call-in — on May 15, 1996, homicides of young men plummeted along with reports of shots fired.

The Rev. Jeff Brown, one of the ministers who worked on the project, remembers people were outside more, barbecuing in the park. At Halloween, kids were able to trick-or-treat on the streets again.

The team behind the effort quickly started getting calls from other cities — even other countries — about how to replicate what became known as the Boston Miracle. With the support of the Justice Department under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, many cities tried the strategy and some got dramatic results. Stockton saw a 42 percent reduction in monthly gun homicides over several years. Indianapolis experienced a 34 percent drop in monthly homicides. Lowell, Massachusetts, saw gun assaults fall by 44 percent.

A 2012 review of the existing research evidence found that seven of eight cities that had rigorously implemented Ceasefire and similar strategies had seen reductions in violence.

Other cities have tried Ceasefire, or half-tried it, and then abandoned it. The strategy requires resources, political buy-in, and ongoing trust between unlikely partners. The effort in Boston had "black and Latin and Cape Verdean clergy working with white Irish Catholic cops in a city that had a history of race relations leading up to that point that was abysmal," Brown said. "It was really a shift in behavior, in the way we did business."

These partnerships can be fragile. Boston's own Ceasefire effort fell apart in 2000, researchers said. There was infighting and the police official who led it got another assignment. In subsequent years, homicides of young men crept up again.

An endless number of variables can affect crime, making it hard to know how much a particular effort works. Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, noted that the current research only evaluates the short-term effects of the program, so it's still unclear how well it works over the long term.

Still, Webster said, if you're interested in reducing shootings among young black men, the Boston Ceasefire model is one of the strategies that has shown "the most consistent positive response."

Jim Bueerman — head of the Police Foundation, which focuses on crime research — said that while the evidence is only "highly suggestive," Ceasefire is still worth doing.

"It's going to be a long time before you get the perfect evidence," said Bueerman, a former police chief of Redlands, California. "When you come across a strategy like Ceasefire that appears to be working, you owe it to people to try it in your local community."

Ceasefire requires trust between often unlikely partners. The Rev. Jeff Brown, third from right, leads a prayer with fellow clergy and law enforcement officials, including police Commissioner William Evans, second from left, before participating in a weekly peace walk. (Gretchen Ertl for ProPublica)

Part of what seems to make Ceasefire effective is that it treats the men it targets as both dangerous and also in need of help. Such initiatives, however, fit into no political camp and thus have few powerful champions.

"It has no natural constituency," said Thomas Abt, a Harvard Kennedy School researcher who has worked on crime policy at the Justice Department. "To vastly oversimplify, progressives want more prevention and conservatives want more enforcement. Focused deterrence" — what academics call Ceasefire and similar approaches — "challenges the orthodoxy on both sides. It makes everybody uncomfortable."

Ceasefire has often been greeted with skepticism in the neighborhoods it's supposed to help, where residents have reason to distrust the police. To buy into Ceasefire, McBride had to weigh the data against his own experience. In 1999, as a college student studying theology, McBride was stopped as he drove home by two white San Jose police officers. He said they forced him to get out of his car, groped him, and made him lie on the ground while threatening him.

It didn't matter that he was a youth pastor, that he was involved in local politics, that he had just helped to get San Jose's new mayor elected. That night, he was just another black man lying on the ground. (The police chief at the time told ProPublica that while the officers and McBride gave conflicting accounts, he decided to launch a study of racial profiling during traffic stops, one of the nation's first.)

When McBride moved to Berkeley in 2005, fresh out of divinity school at Duke University, he thought he would focus his social justice work on education — mentoring young people struggling to graduate from high school.

Then a few of the young people he was mentoring were murdered. One was Larry Spencer, a charismatic 19 year old — funny, popular, "someone that everyone just really loved," McBride said. Spencer was shot to death outside a liquor store in nearby Oakland. It was the city's 39th gun homicide in a year that left 110 dead.

Hundreds of mourners attended Spencer's funeral, McBride said. McBride asked the congregation how many had attended a funeral before. Everyone raised their hands. How many had been to two funerals? Three? Four? He continued to count upward. "I got as high as 10," he recalled. "Half of the young people started to cry and still had their hands in the air."

Oakland had tried Ceasefire on and off for years but struggled to make it work. "There wasn't a true commitment to the strategy," said Lt. LeRonne Armstrong, who managed the city's program in the mid-2000s while working in the criminal investigations unit. "We did not have the political support."
After Sandy Hook, advocates placed thousands of grave markers on the National Mall to remember all those affected by gun violence. (Mark Wilson/Getty)

McBride and others pushed city leaders and pastors to embrace the strategy.

Many of them were skeptical, but McBride thought working with the police was crucial. "We realized that in order for us to do any of this work, we were going to have to be in some relation with the police department. We pay taxes. We're paying for the police department, whether we like it or not," he said.

In 2012, Oakland recommitted itself to Ceasefire. It hired a full-time manager for the program, using both city dollars and part of a 2013 Justice Department grant. The city also dedicated funds to work with a team of experts who had helped other cities implement Ceasefire. The experts helped Oakland do a detailed data analysis homing in on the men who needed to be called in. There were only 20 guys at the first relaunched call-in — "but they were 20 of the right guys," said Armstrong.

Murders dropped from 126 in 2012 to 90 in 2013, according to police department data. Last year, Oakland had 80 murders.

McBride traveled across the country as part of a national campaign to reduce urban violence using Ceasefire. Every city had its own challenges. Money was one of them. Ceasefire was not particularly expensive, but hiring outreach workers and providing social services to the men involved required a little support, as did hiring outside consultants. Outside funding also made it easier for city leaders to move ahead with a different approach to gun violence.

The Obama administration has several grant programs aimed at helping urban neighborhoods reduce violence, but the demand for grants far outstrips funding. For one 2012 grant, the Justice Department received over 140 applications and had money for just 15.

"It is a brutal process to apply for these grants. Most of them don't get funded, and I think that's a bit of a tragedy," said Bueerman, the head of the Police Foundation. "You have agencies that are highly willing to do the work. You don't have to sell them on the efficacy of the strategy. You just have to empower it through a relatively small amount of money to help them get the program started."

The Obama administration has consistently asked for more money than Congress has authorized. In 2012, the White House requested $74 million for five grants for Ceasefire and similar programs. It got $30 million.

Advocates of Ceasefire have tried to press Congress for more money. Some legislators "really like these programs," one former Hill staffer said, but not enough to take on an uphill battle for additional funding. "I think the one sort of antidote to that was if you had massive political pressure from some organization or group that felt really strongly about something and could get people riled up about it," the staffer said. "Honestly speaking, if we are talking about urban violence, there is less of that."

The national groups that spend the most money and do the most advocacy related to gun violence have concentrated almost exclusively on passing stricter gun control laws. Dan Gross, the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said he's "very supportive," of strategies like Ceasefire, but "it's not our lane."

A spokeswoman for Michael Bloomberg's Everytown for Gun Safety said much the same. "We're focused on what we know, which is how to improve the laws," said Erika Soto Lamb.

Declines in violent crime over the last two decades have made it harder to galvanize support for gun violence prevention. The number of Americans murdered by guns peaked in 1993, then dropped sharply until 2000 for reasons that are still not fully understood. Since then, the number of Americans killed in gun homicides has remained remarkably consistent, about 11,000 to 12,000 a year.

Another constant: About half of those killed this way are black men, though they make up just 6 percent of the U.S. population. In 2001, when George W. Bush took office, 5,279 black men were murdered with firearms, according to estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2012, it was 5,947.

These deaths are concentrated in poor, segregated neighborhoods that have little political clout.

"I think that people in those communities are perceived as not sufficiently important because they don't vote, they don't have economic power," said Timothy Heaphy, a former U.S. attorney who has spent much of his career focused on urban violence. "I think there's some racism involved. I don't think we care about African-American lives as much as we care about white lives."

The few congressional efforts to advance gun legislation in recent years have been prompted by mass shootings, violence that is seemingly random and thus where everyone can feel at risk.

"Congress has only moved in response to galvanizing tragedy, and galvanizing tragedy tends to not involve urban, run-of-the-mill murder," said Matt Bennett, a gun policy expert at Third Way, a centrist think-tank. "The narrative about the need for gun violence prevention generally is driven by these black swan events, and those often involve white people," he added. "It is horrific and tragic, but that's the fact."

When Adam Lanza shot his way into the Sandy Hook Elementary School with a military-style rifle and handguns in December 2012, it wasn't clear if any laws would have stopped him. Lanza had taken the guns from his mother, who had purchased them legally.

Pastor Michael McBride leads a vigil outside of the White House on Dec. 14, 2012, to call on the president to take action after the mass shooting that day at Sandy Hook Elementary School. (Alex Wong/Getty)

The package of proposed legislation and policy initiatives recommended by the Obama administration in the aftermath of Sandy Hook centered on closing loopholes in background checks and renewing the federal ban on assault weapons that expired in 2004. The president also called for increased spending on mental health, crackdowns on the trafficking networks that sell illegal guns, and more than $150 million for a new program to put more cops and psychologists in schools.

Obama and gun control advocates made universal background checks the focus of their push. It wasn't a policy that was relevant to Newtown, but they saw it as the most likely way to reduce everyday gun violence and save lives. Most researchers agree that a better background check system could help curtail both urban gun violence and mass shootings, though there's no hard data to indicate how much.

There was less evidence proving that the other elements of the president's plan would reduce gun violence. Though the public quickly focused on one weapon Lanza used, a Bushmaster XM15-E2S, experts knew the assault weapons ban hadn't saved many lives. The effects of a renewed ban "are likely be small at best, and perhaps too small for reliable measurement," a report funded by the Justice Department concluded.

A former senior White House official agreed. While a ban on high capacity magazines could help some, the official told ProPublica, the assault weapons ban "does nothing." Though Obama endorsed it as part of the post-Newtown package, "we did the bare minimum," the official said. "We would have pushed a lot harder if we had believed in it."

Some gun control advocates who worked with the administration on gun legislation said they saw the endorsement of the assault weapons ban as a bargaining chip. "It's all a dance, it's a kabuki thing, and right from the beginning the White House understood that they weren't going to get a ban done," said Bennett, the gun policy expert. "They had to talk about it. It would have been insane not to. Every news report after Sandy Hook had this horrible looking AR-15, and noted that it had been a banned weapon that now wasn't."

Adding police at schools has popular appeal, but classroom homicides are exceedingly rare.

"Any given school can expect to experience a student homicide about once every 6,000 years," said Dewey Cornell, a University of Virginia professor who studies school safety.

"Children are in far more danger outside of schools than in schools. If we had to take officers out of the community to put them in schools, then actually children will be less safe rather than more safe."

Two former administration staffers who worked on the gun violence platform said the $150 million proposal for cops and counselors in schools — which "may have been a bit outsized," one said — was driven by Vice President Biden's history of championing federal grants for hiring cops.

It also seemed like "something that people might be willing to, you know, give us money for," a former senior White House official said.

The staffers said they could not remember why funding to support strategies like Ceasefire was not included in the plan. "Look, if it was some deliberate conversation not to do it, I would remember," the former senior official said.

Though Justice Department grants for community violence prevention weren't part of the post-Sandy Hook platform, a staffer said "we were watching the fiscal year 2014 budget process and making sure we were continuing to push for those resources at DOJ." Bruce Reed, Biden's chief of staff at the time, said budget concerns likely kept funding for innovative local efforts out of the package.

"We didn't want to turn this into an appropriations bill, because that would be ... " he said, shrugging. "That would cost us whatever Republicans we had hoped for."

"The appropriations climate was, if possible, more divisive than the gun debate," Reed added later. "We were always between shutdowns."

Webster, the Johns Hopkins gun violence researcher, said that it would have been "more justifiable" to devote federal dollars to supporting Ceasefire and similar programs than it was to put the money toward school security. "I don't know of any evidence that putting police in schools makes them safe, and I do know of evidence that having police in schools leads to more kids being arrested," he said.

Two weeks after Obama unveiled his plan, McBride and dozens of other clergy members, many of them from cities struggling with high rates of gun violence, met again with staffers from Vice President Biden's task force.

The mood at the January 29 meeting was tense. Many of the attendees, including McBride, felt the president's agenda had left out black Americans.

"The policy people working for Biden worked with the reality of Congress," said Teny Gross, one of the original Boston Miracle outreach workers who now leads the Institute for Nonviolence Chicago. "What they were proposing to us was very limited and was not going to help the inner city."
Gross said he "blew a gasket." The clergy members in the room were pleading for help. "We bury hundreds of kids every year in the inner city," Gross recalled them telling the administration representative. "Some of the solutions need to apply to us."

A staffer said that the political will of the country was not focused on urban violence, several ministers who attended the meeting recalled.

"What was said to us by the White House was, there's really no support nationally to address the issue of urban violence," said the Rev. Charles Harrison, a pastor from Indianapolis. "The support was to address the issue of gun violence that affected suburban areas — schools where white kids were killed."

The Rev. Jeff Brown, from Boston, was angered by the administration's calculated approach. "When you say something like that and you represent the President of the United States, and the first African-American President of the United States, you know, that's hugely disappointing," he said.

Former administration officials said they thought it was tragic that the everyday killings of black children did not get more political attention. "I totally agree with their frustrations," a former official said. "At the same time, when the nation listens, you've got to speak, and you don't get to pick when the nation listens."
The Rev. Jeff Brown, one of the ministers who worked on Boston's Ceasefire, which resulted in a dramatic drop in shootings. (Gretchen Ertl for ProPublica)

It would turn out there was little political will to realize the administration's gun-violence proposals either. Measures to expand background checks and ban assault weapons died on April 17, 2013 when they couldn't muster the votes necessary to advance in the Senate.

In his 2014 budget recommendations around the same time, Obama again asked for more money for local grant programs to combat urban gun violence. He recommended tripling the funding for a Justice Department grant that helped cities adopt Ceasefire from $8 million to $25 million. Overall, he requested $79 million for grants to support similar initiatives. Obama had asked for almost twice that much to put more cops and psychologists in schools.

Congress slashed Obama's requests across the board. Instead of approving $150 million to help schools hire cops and psychologists, it created a $75 million school safety research program.

It also rejected his proposed increases for Ceasefire and similar programs. Instead, Congress took many of the small grants and made them even smaller. One program was cut from $8 million to $5.5 million. Another shrank from $2 million to $1 million.

In all, Congress spent $31 million on five urban violence-related grants — less than half of what it approved for research on how to make schools safer.

There have been increasing concerns about rising murder rates over the past year in cities across the country. Some have blamed the increases on the "Ferguson Effect," — the theory that increased scrutiny of cops has made them reluctant to do their jobs — although there is "no data" to support this claim, as Attorney General Loretta Lynch said recently. It's not clear how much murders have increased nationwide. Each city has its own trend. Some have seen an uptick only in comparison to the historic lows they had last year. In other cities, violence is truly spiking. Baltimore recently recorded its 300th homicide this year, the most since 1999.

In Indianapolis, where homicides are set to increase for the third straight year, more federal funding might have made a difference. In early 2012, Indianapolis applied for a Justice Department grant to help implement Ceasefire, requesting $1.5 million over three years. But just four of more than roughly 60 cities that applied received funding. Indianapolis was not among them.

"Absolutely, there's no doubt in my mind, if we had been awarded the grant we would have had the financial carryover to move the program forward," said Shoshanna Spector, the executive director of IndyCAN, a local faith-based advocacy group that pushed for Ceasefire.

Douglas Hairston, who works on private-public partnerships at the Indianapolis mayor's office, said the city is currently doing "60 to 70 percent" of the Ceasefire strategy.

"Federal funds would have helped," he said. "We know that we could do more, and we're striving to find ways to do it."

Earlier this year, Indianapolis Police Chief Rick Hite said the city was doing the strategy "with modifications" and that the city is always using the "tenets of Ceasefire."

There have been 133 murders so far this year in Indianapolis, according to police department data, up from 96 in 2012.

In Baltimore, Ceasefire appears to have struggled. The program's manager resigned in March, the Baltimore Sun reported. Webster, the researcher evaluating the effort, told the paper he questioned whether the rollout of Ceasefire in the Western District was "being done on the cheap and being done in a way that is not even resembling the program model."

Other cities have seen more success. New Orleans and Kansas City both saw drops in violence that researchers have credited to their new Ceasefire programs. Chicago has been rolling out call-ins to an increasing number of police districts. Gary, Indiana, and Birmingham, Alabama, both launched new Ceasefire programs this year. Cities have often paid for the programs using money from a variety of sources: federal dollars, local governments, and, increasingly local foundations.

Obama has launched an initiative to support young men and boys of color. One of the stated goals of My Brother's Keeper, which was launched last year, is reducing violence. The initiative is backed by more than $500 million in corporate and philanthropic commitments. But most of that money has been devoted to mentoring and education programs.

Organizers said they would reduce violence, too, albeit indirectly. "I would challenge this notion that violence reduction resources or targeting is only to be looked at through the lens of reducing violence per se," Broderick Johnson, the chair of the My Brother's Keeper Task Force, told ProPublica. "It is just as important to look at it in terms of opportunities for young people to stay in school or get jobs or to get second chances."

Last year, the Justice Department also launched a modest effort called the Violence Reduction Network, which provides cities with training and advice from former police chiefs and other crime-fighting experts. Many of the needs the network meets are basic: It helped Wilmington, Delaware police create a homicide unit. Wilmington, with 70,000 mostly black residents, has a higher murder rate than Chicago.

Running the network is inexpensive. It costs about $250,000 per city annually. But once again, it's not meeting the greater need. The program is targeted at the roughly four-dozen cities with the nation's highest violent crime rate. The government is only working with 10 of them.

The White House did not comment on questions about the administration's overall response to urban violence. The Justice Department offered the following statement: "In addition to focusing on violent crime reduction in cities, the department also responded to one of the worst mass shootings in our nation's history in Newtown by identifying funding for school resource officers to help keep kids safe in schools and to assist the many victims of this heinous crime."

Biden's office also offered a statement: "Whether it's by banning assault weapons, incentivizing local police to create better relationships with residents of America's cities, or finding alternatives to jail, including diversionary programs like drug courts, the Vice President has worked to support any viable solutions to reduce gun violence in our cities."

When Jeff Brown was at the White House recently for an initiative on extremism, he ran into Biden.

"The vice president walked up to me and said, 'Reverend Brown, good to see you,'" Brown said. Biden said he remembered meeting Brown back in the '90s, when he visited Boston to hear more about Operation Ceasefire and the Boston Miracle.

"I hope we can bring back some of what we did in Boston," Brown said he told the vice president.

"I hope so, too," Biden replied.

Brown laughed at the memory. "You're the vice president — can't you do something about it?"

"diversionary term" / "police and vigilantes" 29.Sep.2016 09:49


You refuse to acknowledge the data (some of which is provided for examination in the above-posted article, and there are many other easily accessed sources of related data) which confirms the greatest risks to African American urban communities. "Diversionary" indeed.

"vigilantes" - what on Earth are those? Most of the so-called 'black on black' crime concerns black males killing each other in these communities. It's tragic and extremely unfortunate; but as explained clearly in the ^^above article most of the disagreements start between people who know each other, not some imagined 'vigilantes' in Garth's fantasy world.

That's right Garth, you're a fantasist, not an authentic activist.

You, Garth are a fake (as you've demonstrated/been documented here in years of trolling PDX IMC particularly on the topic of race  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/12/431161.shtml#444933 )

RE: 'black on black' :


 link to thehill.com
Agreed, however, that there is no such thing as "black-on-black crime." Just as there is no such thing as "white-on-white crime" or "Asian-on-Asian crime" or "brown-on-brown crime," even though people kill people who look like them all the time in every corner of the globe. For racially charged and bigoted reasons we won't dive into at the moment, somehow it was black people wrongfully anointed with the unique and patently false special designation. Crimes happen most where you live, and they are committed by those who live close to you. And crimes also happen in places wrecked by underperforming schools, crumbling infrastructure, poor public health and high unemployment, issues that continue to plague black communities.

Yawn, - 29.Sep.2016 21:58


You ignore, willfully or otherwise, the difference between state violence--which is owned by white people--and individual violence.

"Vigilante" is exactly what it means, which is private forces taking on the roll of the state. If it helps, quasi-police forces such as private security, and individuals who act as police sorts and have implicit backing of the state and thus are rarely held accountable.

Whether or not I am an authentic activist, whatever that is, is not the issue. What was the issue was you pretending you knew everything under the sun about Black Lives Matter, but apparently having only garnered your knowledge from watching rallies. In other words, you know almost nothing about the Black Lives Matter movement because the rallies do not define the majority of the work being done.

But please, keep cutting and pasting your articles from your chair in front of your computer. That's, doubtlessly, authentic activism.

RE: "pretending you knew everything" (??) 29.Sep.2016 23:17


I absolutely don't, never did here "pretend to know everything" about BLM's inner workings (and as someone else suggested above 'BLM' does not necessarily refer to a specific / discrete organizational unit or structure, hence no such 'inner workings' to even be critiqued/observed from afar).

What I do know about, however is the EXTERNAL RESULT of BLM's actions which I can view on YouTube and other sources. And, statements from selected BLM 'spokespersons' (??) and activists themselves, in which they attempt to "express" themselves and 'their movement'.

In addition to what other persons besides me are saying about their observations, of what BLM is visibly doing. that is the protests (and/or "riots" ?? ......)

sorry, I can't live up to the omniscient all-seeing Garth. It's the best my mortal self can do on the topic of BLM, given sources and info available.

[quote] "rallies do not define the majority of the work being done"

Oh really Mr. Authentic Activist?

Well please do (ALREADY ASKED OF YOU TWICE, above) define, reference and list out "the majority of the work being done" and what exactly it consists of.

(as already asked of you ^^above) Do tell.

we're waiting (for 'the majority of the work being done', Lol)...

[quote] "cutting and pasting your articles from your chair / authentic activism"

Is there some kind of PDX IMC law against referring to specific articles (including those ALREADY POSTED TO and linked within THE PDX IMC Newswire itself), which happen to precisely express ideas and/or present exact data relevant to the discussion and issues at hand?

( this has been a phenomena among PDX IMC in just the past, let's say, 5 to 7 years or so..... people get snooty about anything, however well-stated, expressed or referenced from a 'third party' no matter what its leanings, credibility or origins. The mere fact that it 'didn't come from "you"', whoever 'you' is on the internet anyway, sticks in some's craw. Not possible to remark on relevant and cogent ideas except to ad-hominem them? 'Not Invented Here'?? whatever... )

Or are you merely pissed off/offended as a consequence of having run out of things to respond with....

except for more ad hominem from the troll Garth (  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/12/431161.shtml#444933 )

Morning yawn, - 30.Sep.2016 06:00


Well, I am glad to see that there is this new breed of youtube activist out there. No doubt, the world is working much better because of that.

Do you do any sort of activism beyond watching youtube and/or going to rallies? Those rallies only scratch the surface of what goes on. To make a very long story short, you get people involved. You do this by knocking on doors and by reaching out to others engaged in similar struggles. You educate people in those door to door meetings, in small halls, in churches, and so on. The Black Lives Matter movement has reached out to the Immigrant Justice and Environmental Justice movements, just to name a couple. That is not as easy as saying, "Hey, can we hang with you guys?" (or in your case, "Hey, want to watch youtube together?"). You need to meet with their groups members, and then work on getting on each others pages. There is a lot of give and take. This hopefully results in more involvement from people who will eventually force systemic change. Rallies don't do that unto themselves, although they are very good for inviting more people aboard as well as recharging people who slog the other days of the year doing the more humdrum work that is the essence of activism.

You wrote this at one point: all I'm saying is, BLM is by far the most goal-less and ineptly puppeted 'movement' I've seen in 50 years (which is around my age, and I've lived in 4 other countries — non-Western Europe ones — besides the U.S.)

What on Earth is its point? it is absolutely pathetic, ineffectual and an utter waste of time. Stupid in fact. Morons running around directionless in the streets exclaiming "__________".

So, I'm sorry if you think it is wrong to assume you imply you know everything about the Black Lives Matter movement. But I would think that most people reading that--particularly that they are the the most goal-less and ineptly puppeted 'movement'--would assume you have a working knowledge of what goes on within the movement. It is actually quite logical to assume you have attended planning meetings and the like if you are going to make such assessments.

And if in 50 years of doing activism you don't understand how much work goes on the other days that are not rallies, then you really should reassess your idea of activism.

I never said there was a law against cutting and pasting articles. What I did imply was that this is no more activism than, oh say, watching youtube.

Pissed off about having run out of things to respond with? Huh, that's interesting. Actually, what pisses me off is seeing police murder people and not be held accountable. But that line may reveal a lot about you.

What is truly revealing is that I would think a person truly committed to activism would not demand I tell them what goes on at meetings and the like, but rather, would go to those meetings and see for herself. But maybe I just need another 30 or so years of youtube watching in four countries to get my head on straight.

Garth (quote) :"rallies only scratch the surface of what goes on" 30.Sep.2016 18:10


(as an activist) I know what activism is Garth. I know what awareness raising (even the 'negative net effect'-style as being accomplished nationwide, by BLM these days.

Yeah I ___know___ already Garth that BLM has (supposedly...) "reached out to the Immigrant Justice and Environmental Justice movements". I ___know___ already what cross-movement activism and coalition building consists of Garth.

WHERE ARE THE SPECIFICS about BLM itself (whatever 'itself' is...) , LISTED?

What you still refuse and have failed to answer is simply:

reference and list out "the majority of the work being done" and what exactly it consists of.

So what exactly is it Garth. In Charlotte. In Portland. (anywhere)

Please enumerate (apart from the already-blatantly-obvious lengthy circuitous generic description of 'grassroots awareness raising' / "getting on each others pages" / "hopefully results in more involvement from people who will eventually force systemic change" you wrote above) what exactly BLM is doing in our communities, since you claim to have firsthand access and knowledge.

No more generalizations.

Provide us (for example) with a brief rundown of your last post-demonstration BLM meeting or activist briefing.
( or not )

RE: "seeing police murder people and not be held accountable" 30.Sep.2016 18:30


this angers and saddens me immensely as well, Garth. No matter the ethnicity or skin color of either the murderer or victim, police or otherwise.

As mentioned on another thread  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/09/433220.shtml#447958 though,
I also believe that all justice activists need to wisely choose their battles and where their precious, valuable energy is to be spent/expended.
(e.g. when the designated martyr has such a questionable and/or lengthy criminal history, and furthermore when an ensuing police-excess-force investigation and the incident-event itself turns out factually not in favor of what certain activists were vociferously propounding in advance...)

which is perhaps the main problem I have with the BLM/related movements and their actions, demonstrations. I firmly believe that based on the evidence seen in multiple cases of BLM outcry over police murders and excess use of force, some of the facts surrounding not only the actual shootings/killings themselves, but also the criminal backgrounds of the deceased, have been highly questionable. Furthermore, I do not believe that such details are 'beyond question'. I also think (my opinion) that BLM/related activists since 2013- have been 'scattershot' in application of their urges to action, again based on questionable nature of some of these incidents/individuals, and that this has been deceptive to a generation of younger justice activists (who understandably and simply wish to be part of 'doing good' etc.)

on another related tangent to this issue and topic (as I've referenced/posted with other linked articles above), there are many issues surrounding the outrageous inherent life risks of black male Americans, especially to each other, in their own communities which I believe have not been adequately scrutinized, examined or addressed by either BLM or many related anti-racist and justice organizations and movements, particularly on the Left. Most outstandingly (for example) would be the extreme proportion of African American males who die as a result of gun violence annually, and e.g. the attempts by gun control advocates to "blanket"-apply their supposed solution to all 300 million American citizens without specifically addressing the socioeconomic issues that surround the risk factors for black males in the communities known to have vast economic/social difficulties. (Please refer to the excellent 'How the Gun Control Debate Ignores Black Lives' ProPublica investigative piece for specific examples)

but this has all been previously addressed in other posts and linked articles above. I would encourage you and your BLM/social justice friends to seriously contemplate and consider some of the topics and issues raised here. (perhaps ? in the hope that future direction of the movement could be more effectively applied and spread...)

Garth nails it 24.Oct.2019 11:16

Nice Logic

Thanks for dealing with the white trash talk. I think someone who doesnt like BLM is working double time to sell us babble talk dished up as non-racist but with a spinning con job complete with finger pointing to those who are not arm chairing but active in the streets fighting racism.

Then said closet Black Lives Matter disruptor tosses out enough links which were all just self made tirades - basic copy paste - to choke anybody who dare wanted to address race issues, but are now thus bombarded with loads of self loathing links that slap the BLM activists who are out fighting for justice and equality.

The links are just circle jerks that push the message to tear down BLM participants.