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How Do You Propose To ACTUALLY Redistribute Resources/Wealth?

well the Are You A Statist? quiz was apparently too difficult for the Geniuses at Portland Indymedia,

so maybe we can try baby steps...

First question: How do you propose, in real measurable terms (policies ?? if that is the step chosen...) to re-distribute the resources and wealth of the world among its peoples.
We need to know the steps taken here.

Real steps, list them out. Not just a 'pie in sky' bunch of wishes.
(if it's even an 'important' thing or goal to be pursued in any case. Please say so, if it's NOT an important or practical goal and explain fully why...)

It's an important thing to have clear, realistic goals when one strives for justice (i.e. wealth / resource redistribution).

Now sure, we know that you're a community activist. That is, you're active in your _local_ community, with persons / other communities that are nearby to you.

We understand you're a dedicated, busy activist. In your community. Right now.
No need to explain all that, mkay?

What we don't know is, if you care enough or have enough energy to 'distribute the wealth' you have in your own community, to the entire country. Or world.

Of course many of us can take the spiritual approach: Anything 'good' or helpful e.g. volunteer work, Food Not Bombs/kitchens etc. are of benefit to others, and they 'redistribute' some resources appropriately to others in need.
(this isn't merely 'spiritual' or theoretical 'goodness' either; good works such as this do indeed have measurable, quantifiable results and beneficial effects in our own communities.)

But what we're asking about here is, how are you proposing to take that gigantic amount of wealth that is under control of Wall Street, Trump / Hillary / Obama / insurance companies / corporate whoever,

and 'redistribute' all of that, among your community (communities).

How exactly do you propose that would be accomplished?

Would force be utilized? If so, who / what entity would apply the force? Would it be the iPhone-toting tweeters of #BLM?

is Elizabeth Warren (or another well-known leader / personality) going to have something to do with this resource redistribution?

HOW (using what methods, specific tools) can wealth be redistributed in the global corporate capitalist plutocratic banker economy / 'political economy'?

You Want it All on a Platter like most People 14.Jul.2016 03:55

Tracy Mapes

...it won't work.

I've put several comprehensive plans on the table over the last 15 years.

Some were adopted by the U.S. Government including measures to end the Iraq War, create a No-Fly Zone for Israel over Iraq, and the Normalizing of Relations with Cuba.

In some cases they applied the suggestions with a great measure of effect.

In the case of Cuba, they fucked it up as big as they ever could have, because I was very specific in the necessary components to make it into a wide spectrum impact of financial reward for the United States of America.

They continue with their My Way or the Highway attitudes and are running Our Nation into the ground.

My writing on Cuba has since disappeared from the PDX Indy Media site as many other pieces I have written over the years.

They, much like you, want the answers, and once they have them, they would leave you in a ditch, and run away with the answers like some coveted prize.

You probably would like my answers anyway, because I am 100% about a strong sense of Nationalism and the Symbolism of the American Flag.

But I am no fan of what "They" have turned my Country into, no matter how they try to wrap themselves in the Flag.

My ideas are to rebuild America, to set an example for the rest of the World as a complete success model, meaning the changing of a warfare model of repression to a model of reselling the American Dream to the entire World.

It includes several components that on the outset would not please many groups about what progress is, because it mostly entails reversing every policy that has brought us to the brink of our own destruction as a viable and respectable nation.

Its intent is to re-empower the people to have a fighting chance to survive, flourish and build the relationships to carry us through the next 150 years without World conflict.

Wealth redistribution may come in the form of developing a new currency that is designed to nullify the U.S. Dollar as we know it today, so the holders, bankers, and predatory investors are left with nothing but a pile of useless paper.

In foreign trade, all trade tariffs would be lifted, along with the intent to fully utilize World wage disparagement to rebuild our economy, infrastructure, employment opportunities, and to reduce internal competition by teaching our people to win as a team instead of individually.

Fighting low foreign production capabilities is like fighting the entire World with tired ideas instilled in the American population that they will have a job just because their parents did.

By not fighting the foreign threat of low production price capabilities, and taking early advantage across the board, the kind of capital necessary could be created, interest free, for the re-employment of our nation through infrastructure repair, and free ourselves of the excessive interest on borrowed monies from banks and lending institutions.

This would allow America to recreate itself over the next 50 years to have the best of everything for the creation of a viable and functional economy.

Economic stimulus as seen in our histories past would not be repeated in the same manner, leaving the banks with no bailouts, but taking the same money or more and injecting it into the economy at the lowest levels of the economic strata.

By providing the stimulus at the "Homeless" level, the entire economy will enjoy the impact of the stimulation as dollars change hands all the way to the top of the food chain, providing the needed monies for the most vital life sustaining industries.

Debit cards would be provided to the poor, and the requirement to expend the cards within a given time period would be required to eliminate hording of cash, and to pass the stimulus into the economy in a regulate-able fashion.

The collection of tax would be point of sale based, and there would be no loopholes for anyone.

Corporate tax would consist of Stateside Tariffs upon Import/Export Models.

This would fund the revamped U.S. Military, which would become the New Medical Mission Military, which provides Healthcare Missions around the World to build the relationships of all future trade between the United States and foreign nations.

By providing needed services to the World's poor, disadvantaged and war torn, it sends a message that America has put down its guns and wants to do business.

The Medical Mission Military will install bases for protected trade with all willing host nations.

The Medical Mission Military will also be integrated into the Nation's largest healthcare provider, serving Soldiers and Civilians alike to cut costs and create the greatest disaster safety net known to the World in the protection of its people.

Hospitals would constructed all over the Country, and free to use for all American Citizens.

Power? Electric Power would be relegated to Federal control, and given to Citizens and Business free of charge.

And before you say that it can't be done, I will show you that it not only can be done, but it will profit the entire Nation and create a field of protection and longevity between the U.S. Government and its People like has never existed before.

By giving the People and Business the Power it needs to function on a daily basis, it creates a unique opportunity for the small entrepreneur to the large corporate entities to enjoy a running start at any competitive level whether local or Worldwide.

The Government would employ the same people that care for our power grids today, only they will do the job for the People and with the single minded mission to allow their People to succeed as a Nation.

The money to pay for it will come from the Sales tax generated by all U.S. Production capability.

You already bear that cost now, but in the future, there will be a no profit model, like pouring gas into a tank to make the engine run, the People and the Government will finally have a sustainable relationship that benefits both to encourage loyalty toward a common future.

To further develop a relationship with China and their satellite production influences, I want to give the Security responsibility of the South China Sea back to China.

Relieving this Military budget robbing burden would allow the U.S. Military more freedom to redirect its forces for the promotion of American interests Worldwide while unloading the security costs, unto China.

Further by moving production to as many foreign nations as possible, we will exponentially shift our eco-footprint to the Industrialized nations half a World away, leaving them with the purposely busy business of building the (Quality Control Demands thru Buying Power) products that Americans will have the free time to enjoy and afford.

Shared responsibility will become the mantra between nation of the future, because surely if they don't? We won't have a future.

Which leads to the troubling eco-disasters man has created and in greatest part the United States of America.

I want to build a World coalition to clean our Seas and Oceans, to be funded by all partner nations to provide a Green Peace - Peace corp style encouragement of civilian participation aligned with the Unites States Navy and NASA to send the "Unwanted" debris and even nuclear waste products into the Mariana's Trench where it will be absorbed back into the Earth's core, never to trouble mankind again.

The base for these operations would be the Midway Islands.

There are many ways our Nation could improve itself while it brings the rest of the World along with us.

It's about looking a complicated problems and removing what complicates them.

It's about becoming the Candle Makers of the World, instead of the Candle Burners.

Take Care,

Tracy Mapes

I Love This Flag. I Love This Nation. I Want It to Be Everything That I Pledged My Life For when I was 6 years old.

thanks Tracy for the thoughtful and considerate reply 14.Jul.2016 09:32


I would hope that some other (of the 'hashtaggers'... or whoever) around here could provide a similar attempt at replying.

By collecitvely changing our beliefs? 16.Jul.2016 06:11

Mike Novack

Let me ask you something. Do you imagine this wealth is something PHYSICAL? That OWNERSHIP is something physical that would need to be transferred? That when we say "A owns X" we mean tat there is something real about that relationship or that is simply the collective belief of A, B, C, and most of the rest of the society?

Suppose two men try to walk into the door of a big corporation, both believing that they are the CEO. One of them, the one that the guards at the door, the people in the corridors, etc. believe is the CEO is deferentially admitted. The other, that the guards at the door, the poeple in the corridors, etc. believe is a deranged street person is roughly ejected. WHAT made the difference, the beliefs of those two men or of all the other people.

Property (ownership) isn't a real relationship it's a social belief.

PS: That is NOT an original response, but I thought it might be instructive to put up an analysis that might be the only direction Marx might have considered a threat.

I Have Provided The Answer (And It's Simple) 18.Jul.2016 20:37


Mike Novack is correct (finally). Society is merely a game with made-up rules. Say you are playing baseball? If everyone decided that the hitter should run to third base first? Then you would do it too.

{QUOTE} Calvinball is a game invented by Calvin and Hobbes in which you make the rules up as you go along. Rules cannot be used twice (except for the rule that rules cannot be used twice). No Calvinball game is like another. The game may involve wickets, mallets, volleyballs, and additional equipment as well as masks.

There is only one permanent rule in Calvinball: You can't play it in the same way twice. (But another seems to be that you have to wear a mask.)" {UNQUOTE} --

Anyhow, your big question has already been fully addressed at:

Pure Tyranny Is When The Rich Own Everything

The rich tyrants solemnly address the masses about "regrettable necessities" and "shared sacrifices," then launch more drones and cut school lunch programs yet again. Why merely react to what they are perpetrating?

The very concept of rich people (and even of modestly affluent people) would be bleached into meaninglessness if the poor ones ceased to exist. That is, the rich need the poor and oppressed for the sake of their own self-definition. So therefor they "launch more drones and cut school lunch programs yet again." (Really only a neocon subset of the rich and powerful actively promote these pogroms; the others just jet-set and so on.)

No one should be allowed to own more that 20 times what they need to make a living and live comfortably. People should be required to register their substantial holdings, and if they exceed the 20 times limit, a random jury should force them to sell off the excess, and reduce their holdings to 15 times what they need. The proceeds should go to the commonwealth. Anything they fail to register should be confiscated, and those who willfully avoid registering assets should be punished. That is the only way to control economic royalism and protect freedom and human rights.

Most of our industry has been sold by the rich for profit and shipped down the river to other nations, and there is perhaps only one way to rebuild it. All large industry should be owned and completely controlled by democratic communities and towns. Each community would own an industry, which could only be sold to another community. Some communities would have to be larger than others. For example, an ironmaking operation would require a large community, or consortium of communities. There could be government sponsored research and development communities too. Employees would have to live in the communities, and thus there would be a powerful incentive to minimize pollution. Small businesses would be operated by ordinary companies.

There will be no more rich political parties. No more rich to be protected by vicious policing. No more rich capitalists selling our industrial facilities down the river to China. There must be some regulation, unless we want to be utterly ruled by ultra-rich tyrants. Wealth control would bring freedom and prosperity at last!

I have known about half a dozen billionaire's kids, due to my unusual background. About 2/3rds of them seem like nice people; they seemed friendly and decent. About 1/3rd seemed like exploitative creeps. Most of their family names appear on products that may be found in an average person's home. They were already rich. To me, rich today is having about $250,000,000.00 of relatively expendable money.

I think maybe 30% just live on trust funds and party. Maybe 60% have jobs of some sort, such as sitting in boardrooms from perhaps 10 to 50 hours a week. And maybe about 10% participate in fascistic political "foundations" which do vast harm to our nation and its people. So all in all, the rich screw us over, and thus bestow toxic negative benefits.

Average people do not envy these rich ones. "Envy" is universally defined as "resentful desire of something possessed by another or others." Ordinary folks, and activists also, do not possess energy to waste contemplating resentful desires they are too preoccupied with dealing the latest toxic negative benefits being foisted on them by the fascistic elements among the rich.

We would all be happier and safer if the rich went away. For example, if no one was allowed to own more than 20 times what they need to live comfortably and to have a good income.

And get machine-free casting and tallying simple score voting with no single-selection, no two-party lock-in!!! (And this is NOT the same as "approval voting".)

(perhaps?) Mike Novack is right, illustrating the conceptual approach of leftism 18.Jul.2016 22:17


I agree Mike that much of this is, indeed based on beliefs. i.e. as you suggest the 'concept' of property ownership.

The question was raised however, in relation to the way in which property ownership, and non-ownership is defined and enforced by existing legal system.

i.e. the legal system, is not a 'concept' or figment of our collective (or otherwise) imaginations.

the enforcement arm of said legal system, will descend upon your head if its requirements and regulations are not satisfied, particularly with regard to property and resources.

Anyway as previously noted, what I was getting at was the physical means that would be utilized to actually accomplish any 'resource redistribution'.

One has to rely on system(s) of government, and law enforcement (not just enacting legislation) in order to accomplish the types of things that e.g. the recent labor movement, or even the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, has been advocating. Whether one places 'faith' in, or actually participates in such enforcement systems is immaterial; it's still requisite in order for the result to occur.

The Economy is like a Car 18.Jul.2016 23:19

Tracy Mapes

You put money into the Gas Tank (The Lowest Rung of Society) it runs fine.

You put Gas in the Carburetor? (The Banks) It run only a short time.

This is the missing relationship of a strong and vibrant Economy.

Unfortunately they squandered your money, and now the want you to die,
so they don't have to hear about their poor management skills.

You Suffer The Libertarian Delusion 19.Jul.2016 00:02


Governments do not really need any "monopoly of force". They never have. Of course they always seek it, and often achieve it. But it it does not ever constitute their essence.

For example, when I worked in industry, the Boss would fire people. On more than one occasion, a fired employee would return to the job the day after being fired. This is just a thing (which just tends to happen). The Boss could shoot that employee on the spot for trespassing, and there would be no repercussions at all. No governmental monopoly of force to be seen at all.

The real power of government is based upon the Divine Right of Kings, granted by the Pope. The King is above the powers of force and the powers of money. The Catholic Church has forever been defending Kings and Queens from the Money Lords. Because certain things are held to be above and beyond the influence of the Money Lords. Things such as knowledge, acceptable schooling, opportunity for political office, justice, love, friendship, loyalty, acceptable childhood, certain duties and actions not for direct personal gain, freedom, basic sustenance, sense of spiritual purpose, one's votes, effectual democracy, equality before the law, and so on.

Any kind of real government: Government under the Kings was above the power of money. Democracy too, voting, for example, was devised to exist beyond the power of money. This is the mother's milk of true government.

But alas, it has been lost. The money powers have used lawyering, public relations, and the massive media to justify unlimited self-rule.

Woe unto any people who succumb to this!

blues, (besides s**mming PDX indy) what do you do now? 19.Jul.2016 10:28


blues, "lawyering" as you put it still requires _ENFORCEMENT_ of anything the lawyers 'legislate' or put forth.

Knowledge of the Tax Code, requires the IRS to back it up.

et cetera.

The 'law' (or laws), no matter how it is scattered across any land, must be enforced to varying degrees.

In the USA we have an ever growing Federal government. which has various agencies to implement, and enforce laws. Some of these laws of course, favor the moneyed / Wall Street classes.

But they are still laws, which require enforcement at the barrel of a gun. Any law requires this (to be even marginally 'effective' or productive, for the law-makers and their protected classes).

(What good is an unenforced /completely unenforceable law? For the creators / implementors of a law to 'get their way' / obtain what they sought, it is absolutely required that the law, at some point-some level, be enforced...... no matter how much brainwashing or double talk is thrown out surrounding it.... e.g. see the IRS income tax............ )

Alternatives include voluntaryism and community cooperative exchange, in an economic sense.

Agreed with Tracy Mapes about the nature of monetary policy and economic relations (under corporate statism).

Remember that the (deceptively named) 'Federal' Reserve, is not part of the government. It's a gangster cabal of private banks, issuing money in U.S. citizens' name.

"_" Looks Like A Defense Intelligence Agency Troll 19.Jul.2016 20:02


He/She asked "How Do You Propose To ACTUALLY Redistribute Resources/Wealth?"

I provided the precise answer that all large industry should be owned and completely controlled by democratic communities and towns". What the hell more doth the Troll demand?

Then I described the libertarian delusion. Any kind of real government: Government under the Kings was above the power of money. Democracy too, voting, for example, was devised to exist beyond the power of money. This is the mother's milk of true government.

Yet the troll's progress staggers onward:
"blues, (besides s**mming PDX indy) what do you do now?"

What I do now is expose your deep trolldom.

I gave precise answers. I furnish insights. That's what I do. Plus I do a lot of other things that are simply none of your business.



Try and deny that?