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Abolish The Police

Why pay these so-called "police" 40+ grand a year to pretend to "protect" us? They never actually do that. They are nothing more than guard dogs for the super-rich. That's all.
I used to see these bumper stickers on police cars:
Have a problem? Call a Hippie."

Guess what? Calling a Hippie would get better results.

Stop paying these insane (blue masonic lodge) police.

Enough already.

Policing has Become inherently destructive to Society. 20.Dec.2014 13:14

Tracy Mapes news1st@hotmail.com

When in tough times for the economy or a single individual, a $471 ticket, can mean the difference between getting an additional $471 Dollars into the Justice/Legal Coffers or the Prolonged Degradation of Families, the Individual and Society.

Imagine the Average Police Scenario. There is a Problem in the Community. Domestic Violence. Homeless Men Camping or Digging through the Garbage? A Traffic Ticket. $100 Dollars, $471 Dollars. $1300 Dollars. $0-50,000 Dollars for the Seizures of a Vehicle for Non-Payment of Road Taxes and Fees or Failure to Afford Required by Law Auto Insurance.

The Scenario pretty much plays out the same in each.

People who run afoul of the Law generally have 1 thing in Common. Financial Troubles.

No One Cares about People with Financial Troubles except those who have them. As long as the World is still spinning the Average Human blames the downfall of all other Men on poor decision making. And in regard to the Justice System in America, I have to agree that it is Men's Fault, for the inability to register the destructive way in which they choose to Manage Society and Solve Small Problems by Creating Bigger Ones.

Let's examine some examples of how the Fines Imposed by Law Enforcement and the Judicial Community negatively impact Society.

A Homeless Man is arrested for Illegal Camping or Digging in the Garbage. they take the Individual into custody, Fine them a Hundred Dollars, and Set them lose. In the case of the Man Digging in the Garbage for Aluminum Cans or Food?, He was doing to a lack of Money.

The chances of collecting the Hundred Dollars + the Transportation and Jailing of the Suspect will most likely be an expenditure that is never Recovered. Costing the Community even more Funds for little or no return.

In the Case of the homeless Man arrested for Illegal Camping, the Suspect not only goes to Jail and gets Fined, but very often has All of His Worldly Goods dis-guarded in the Trash by the Offended Agency be they Sheriff or Police. All of these Items collected by the Homeless are the things that Society tells a Man they must have to be included in Society and achieve some level of employable status.

Clothing, Shelter/Tent/Makeshift Structure, Cleaning and Hygiene supplies are taken away, and the Man is returned to the Street empty handed to try and Gather the things to become a part of the community Standard again. This is totally counter productive to the achieving of the Goal to alleviate the Problem of continued Homelessness, While not resolving the problem, costing Taxpayers Millions of Dollars each Year.

Still not Resolved.

--------------

In the Case of Domestic Violence, very often an argument arises over the ability to actively acquire the perceived necessary funds to maintain a Household, Family or Living Standard. One Spouse blames the other. The Other Drinks/Drugs to mask the inability or Seeks Comfort/Companions who aren't actively Demanding or Bitching about the Failure.

Law/Legal and Justice means see this as a Predatory Opportunity to do what? Get both Spousal Partners involved in Family Court, the Justice System, CPS, or any other Government Organization which requires the further expenditure of Funds by People who don't have them. Effectively absorbing the rest of the Family's Income and Opportunity to recover and Permanently destroying the Family Unit.

---------------

Next? - The Traffic Ticket/Loss of Vehicle through Failure to Comply with Insurance Industry lobbied Laws which Include Vehicle Seizure or Exorbitant, Lengthy stays of the Vehicle and or Property in an Impound Facility. Along with additional Fines, the Person's ability to
Recover as a Viable, Productive component of employable Society is Destroyed in the Hope of Government, the Judiciary, Law-Enforcement, and the Insurance Industry to Maximize Profits.

----------------

These Examples are Standard Everyday methods of Conduct by Government Against the People. They are not Problem Solving Solutions.

That's why I proposed the Destruction of Police Vehicles as a Viable way to Save the Nation from certain Destruction. If you can cutoff or take away the Tools of Government's Ability to Abuse the Population with no clear ability to effectively Manage Society's failings, You can in fact Reduce the Overall Cost of Government, and Even Increase their Budgets by limiting their Negative Impact Activities.

In My Ideal of Public Policing, the Police would actually be extended more on the Street Judicial Power to allow the Evaluation of Each Situation, the Cause, and Ability to Create Solutions without incarceration, and Fining of Destitute, Needy, Jobless, and even the Ordinary Citizen. This would be termed "People Oriented Policing." as apposed to the Current System of "Problem Oriented Policing" which utilize Localized Citizen Information to further Target Criminal or what I'll term "People Without Means or Money".

The Idea of "People Oriented Policing" is the Law-Enforcement, Community and Private Business/Church and Charitable Organizations would work in Concert to "Resolve Negative Monetary Disparity" by actively making Contact with Troubled Individuals and Finding out what their specific disability is. Be it, Money, Housing, Drug/Alcohol Use, Employment Problems and Put these People in Contact with Business/Charitable Situation Managers or Individual Businesses to Employ and Improve these People's Lives for a Sustained Overall Success Pattern.

You Can't Start the Pattern, if you are constantly running everything contrary to the Achievable Solutions.

I Believe just the Name Change of Police "POP" Programs from "Problem Oriented Policing" to the Name "People Oriented Policing" would have a Positive Psychological Impact on How the Public perceived the intentions of both Government and Law-Enforcement in the pursuit of actually creating a System of Positive Interaction between the People and those entities.

The Police/Government and the Community would All Benefit by this in Lower Yearly Expenditures, and Not Just the Hope, but the Actual Achievement of Positive and Employment/Housing Solutions for the Good of the Entire Community.

Take Care,

-Tracy Mapes

I Agree blues 20.Dec.2014 14:03

yes

it really is,

just precisely as simple as you've stated it.

(whether or not USA police forces serve as "guard dogs for the super-rich"... which I happen to agree with but admittedly could be debatable more generally...)

The main problem I have with police, is that they simply do _nothing_ in my favor or to the benefit/improvement of my livelihood, or my community's livelihood.

They are a menace to society.

In all imaginable ways and forms, through their use of firearms and other technologies, etc.

Not only this but they are Hogs at the Trough of Public Payroll.

What is it, that police actually _do_ or accomplish for Society at large?

seriously, wtf

All of my tax dollars into the PD/sheriffs : and for what precisely?



In my adult life, I have no experience of a police, sheriff deputy, PD investigator etc.

EVER

coming to my aid or helping out in a 'beneficial' or productive way,

to my own life or a problem I happened to be experiencing.
(For example, a break in. Or robbery. No solution or help whatsoever there; big dead end from PD)


Anyway if anyone reading this has 'beneficial' or even slightly 'productive' (i.e. it produced a measurable _result_) experiences to share about police, sheriffs, PD investigators, highway patrol etc.

Please do indeed post them below. Because I'll be looking forward to hear the sources, details and references of such testimonials.

of course 20.Dec.2014 14:59

whatever

This of course is the place where we would have people actually posting the belief we'd be better without law enforcement. While there is a lot to improve with the PPD there's no point trying to argue with the anarchist community if we're better off with or without police. Waste of typing.

However, yes. I've called the police and had them help. I've called the police when a person was breaking into a neighbor's garage. I've called the police after witnessing an armed robbery. I've called the police and other emergency services after witnessing nasty traffic accidents.

I've seen the police act responsibly and help, and I've seen other cops falsify evidence.

To those who are not the regular anarchist fools who post here, and for as long as the Indymedia "police" allow this post to exist, the issue is not police yes or no, but how to continuously improve the quality of our policing.

RE: " anarchist community " 20.Dec.2014 17:47

??

How is PDX IMC,

this topic thread,

or persons who have posted user comments here -


automatically / by default the "anarchist community" ?

furthermore how in the ***k would you know
(political proclivities-associations of any one of the above)


p.s. [20.Dec.2014 14:59 whatever of course] the "quality of your policing" of PDX IMC discussion topics is bad
and you should feel bad

RE: " I've called the police " 20.Dec.2014 18:14

ok

QUOTE:
----------
>I've called the police when a person was breaking into a neighbor's garage
>I've called the police after witnessing an armed robbery
>I've called the police and other emergency services after witnessing nasty traffic accidents
----------


Please provide data, details on what occurred, what was "produced"

in the aftermath of each of those specific incidents.

After the police 'did their job' in each case. Result.


Police provide a 'service'. We want (evidence of) product.

where do you 20.Dec.2014 20:24

get off

thinking you have the "right" to demand that I give you details of what has happened in my own personal experience?

Typical PIMC nonsense. Give us all the details of your life so we can decide for you if it was true or not, or if your experiences are valid.

I was wondering how quickly some lunatic would "demand" that I prove that this happened in my real life.

What do you want, me to lay out my entire life to you like a gutted fish? If you are so anti-police, even if I could find the police reports would you do the predictable thing and say that since they came from the police they were suspect?

What a good laugh today.

More Police Are Being Abolished Every Day 20.Dec.2014 20:38

blues

One Florida town has been hit by corruption and it is so bad, the entire police force has been fired. The most corrupt city in the state has been exposed for its unlawful ways during a recent audit.
Read more at:
 http://thefreethoughtproject.com/florida-city-fires-entire-police-force/

This is merely one case. Many towns and cities are firing their police forces. They simply cannot afford them and the lawsuits they create.

The police are being gifted heavy-duty military armament by the idiot Feds while at the same time being written off the local budgets, since the (often former) taxpayers cannot possibly afford to pay them.

Meanwhile, "society" is decaying all around us. You would think that the police would compensate for this by becoming less like militias, and more like the social workers they used to resemble. But no. They are getting more aggressive and lawless. And this cannot end well.

So far, the police officer's occupation has not been particularly hazardous. There are at least ten occupations that are more likely to send workers to the morgue. But now more and more people are finding themselves with nothing to lose but their minds. Just hours ago two cops were executed in NYC. The reports are that someone just shot them in their patrol car, and then shot himself. This will lead to God only knows what horrors. Still, most police are most at risk of getting run over by cars while handing out traffic tickets.

The policies enforced by police are dictated by politicians, prosecutors, judges, etc. Police unions are often cited as powerful forces working to protect abusive police, but that is nonsense. The cops do just what they are allowed to do by political higher-ups. They really do just follow orders. The entire U.S.A. (and world, actually) is quite corrupt. Yet some communities do not allow the police to be as corrupt as others. It really does pay to find and live in such communities.

RE: " where do you get off " 20.Dec.2014 21:11

where do YOU "get off"

QUOTE:
----------
thinking you have the "right" to demand that I give you details of what has happened in my own personal experience?
----------

Didn't ask for personal details (of you/yourself).

What we do want -- and have a right to ask for, given your vague claims --

is details and facts concerning the incidents you allege to have happened/experienced,

particularly with regard to the performance of the police in their duties.

What was the end result, of each. After you had "called the police" -

Then what happened?


QUOTE:
----------
>Typical PIMC nonsense
----------

Why are you here, again?

Not being paid to do so - correct?



QUOTE:
----------
>Give us all the details of your life so we can decide for you if it was true or not, or if your experiences are valid
----------

You made claims.

Vague, baseless ones.

These can not be verified until you provide further details and/or facts,

regarding performance / end result of police officers' actions in each case.

Capiche ?



QUOTE:
----------
>I was wondering how quickly some lunatic would "demand" that I prove that this happened in my real life
----------

(prior to this)
We had been wondering how quickly some moron would appear on the 'abolish police' topic thread and

Troll the shit out of it.

Well your first post was not quite evidence of that, but your subsequent -

"I'm not gonna provide what you asked for even while I keep bitching incessantly"

response sure as hell is.



QUOTE:
----------
>What do you want, me to lay out my entire life to you like a gutted fish?
----------

Don't care about your "entire life" and didn't ask for personal details.

What we do want is details and facts concerning the incidents you allege to have happened/experienced,

particularly with regard to the performance of the police in their duties.

What was the end result, of each. After you had "called the police" -

Then what happened?


QUOTE:
----------
>If you are so anti-police, even if I could find the police reports would you do the predictable thing and say that since they came from the police they were suspect
----------

You made claims.

And now 1) can't and 2) refuse to back them up.

We don't "suspect" the police of anything.

Except that they seem to produce nothing except payment receipts from Dunkin Donuts.




QUOTE:
----------
>What a good laugh today
----------

Joke's on you / not as good as the one you provided us with

blues 21.Dec.2014 07:13

87

Blues, you posts have become increasingly bitter and focus on underling financial problems. I can only conclude you are having some sort of money problems and resent anybody who is doing better than you. Abolish the police because they only help the rich, and I'm not rich so who needs something that helps someone else. A majority of calls made to the police are by inner city African Americans who need help. That is a fact. Those super rich inner city blacks would like to thank you for your support.

RE: " majority of calls by inner city African Americans " 21.Dec.2014 11:47

A Fact, Jack?

uhh,

what do the "inner city African Americans"

receive when they 'call the police' ?

You brought it up.



Please present the statistical date of what actually occurs after the [your word] "inner city"
residents (African American or otherwise) 'call the police'.


i.e. we're not talking here, about "call the police" or 'relative need' for any demographic, or USA citizen, to "have to call the police" -

need to know now,














WHAT











HAPPENS













__AFTER__
















THE

























POLICE























HAVE













BEEN

























CALLED











by the citizens in question.

What did the police 'produce' as a result for the citizens who called for the services of the police.

i.e. what happened after the police were called, arrived on scene and --

presumably (?)

-- did something / performed something / accomplished something / some result was achieved.

(in the cases of "need to call the police" you so insistently mention).


What did the police __do__ ?



You brought up the topic - now defend/support it with evidence.

p.s. where's the "inner city" of PDX ?

whatever 21.Dec.2014 15:22

against better judgement

Re armed robbery. I saw robber exit 7-11 and carjack a car with a gun. Called it in and gave license number to dispatcher. Was called as witness for trial, while waiting in hallway for trial to begin suspect made a plea bargain. Never heard anything further.

Re garage breakin. Police arrested a suspect with property in possesion that matched cars in garage (stereo). Police enhanced what I said and I had to correct them on the spot while filling out reports. Never heard what happened.

I've seen police reports that are what I said, and some that enhanced what I said or left details out. Police are people and they make mistakes, both intentional and unintentional.

Other events are not that noteworthy, but yes the police do come and do worthwhile things. We just need good citizen review that has some teeth to be able to balance the power of the police unions.

It's sad that we have a society now where you have to think if you do want the police involved or not. But abolishing the police is ridiculous beyond words.

jack 21.Dec.2014 15:47

frank

It would make since if most of the police in the United States spend their time in high crime areas, and those high crime areas are inhabited mostly by people of color, then it would be logical that most of the people calling the police for help would be people of color.

Thanks For Your Kind Reply 21.Dec.2014 15:49

(finally)

Quote:
-------
>Never heard anything further.
>Never heard what happened.
>yes the police do come and do worthwhile things
-------


Ok so based on your descriptions -- THANK YOU -- of the incidents,

it unfortunately looks like we are unable to make a determination of the police force's performance in each of these situations.
(7-11 robbery, and stolen garage property)

Furthermore, both of the situations were you reporting the incidents / evidence after the fact.

Crimes had already occurred.

Ergo, the police did absolutely _NOTHING_ to **prevent** the crimes you listed,

from occurring in the first place.

Now in your mind ("the police do come and do worthwhile things") is entirely __AFTER THE FACT__

i.e. the police, according to you serve some function as the Justice system's 'clean up crew' / 'follow up crew' / 'After The Fact' crew / whatever.


And that may ? be fine.
(For your purposes / satisfaction anyway)

But even if it wasn't 'the police' someone/ some element of our society would, somehow :

A) Have to follow up on the aftermath of a 7-11 robbery
B) Have to follow up/resolve the stolen property, right of return to original owner

There would, in other words, be some sort of recourse.

By in-place community or societal mechanisms.
Of some conception/method. Bringing perpetrators of crimes to justice.

But no need for police in that.


So 'crime prevention' appears not, according to the brief examples you have provided, to be one of the prime functions of the police force.

What good are they?

it was sort of 21.Dec.2014 19:53

worth it

to see what taking your bait and giving you some encouragement would bring.

What a load of crap.

Because our society can't prevent crime and isn't perfect, we shouldn't react to the crime that does occur?

That's as stupid as saying the ER is useless for saving someone's life who had a heart attack because the doctor didn't force the diet to change. Forget all other possible causes of heart disease such as genetics ...

Sorry. Game over. Two plus two doesn't equal minus three.

RE: " we shouldn't react to the crime that does occur?" 21.Dec.2014 22:29

bait

QUOTE:
--------
"to see what taking your bait and giving you some encouragement would bring."
--------

The only 'bait' going on here -- apart from your own mastur-baition -- is you trolling in lame attempts to distract from the central topic.

For which you have provided absolutely no evidence to refute.



QUOTE:
--------
"Because our society can't prevent crime and isn't perfect, we shouldn't react to the crime that does occur"
--------

Nowhere did anyone say or claim: "we 'shouldn't react' to crime."

Nowhere did anyone say or claim: "Abolish the justice system, in its entirety."

See what was previously mentioned, above -

some component / element of society will provide recourse after-the-fact of crimes, enforcement of laws, etc.

It'll be handled differently than today, though.

We're not getting rid of laws, or justice whatsoever. Not even hinting at that.


Just getting rid of police. Who do, produce and accomplish nothing except accumulation of Dunkin Donuts receipts.



QUOTE:
--------
"That's as stupid as saying the ER is useless for saving someone's life who had a heart attack because the doctor didn't force the diet to change."
--------

Now you've really gone off the rails, into nonsensical analogies.

Speaking of (you brought it up) diets that need changing though -

Tell your cop buddies to lay off those donuts.



QUOTE:
--------
"Two plus two doesn't equal minus three."
--------

Congrats yer a mathematical genius -

NOT



QUOTE:
--------
"What a load of crap."
--------

Everything you write/think, yes.



QUOTE:
--------
"Sorry. Game over."
--------

For you, indeed.

RE: " pinnacle of intellectual discourse " 22.Dec.2014 21:50

-

If someone would just back up their assertions instead of

flinging vitriol

which is what the post-Reagan generation have been publicly encouraged to do,
(whether or not these anonymous Internet-citizens are in fact paid trolls)

there might be some 'discourse'.

unfortunately all you ever see these days as 'counter' to an article or course of argument presented,

is merely trolled-vitriol-slinging in order to cause the discussion to capitulate upon itself, in which case the troll's goal (shutdown of open discourse) has already been de facto achieved.

It's the 'shutdown of discussion' effect that's of note here, not some illusory :

"oh darn where can I ever find that Intelektualll Diss-Course I so earnestly crave?"

" general sanity " 22.Dec.2014 21:50 23.Dec.2014 01:26

K

where are suggested locations on internet / in other media that you, "veri" find this?

pls be specific.

just want to get a perspective on ivory towers alluded to, which you apparently frequent. Set the bar (4 U) as it were.