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imperialism & war | political theory

Definition of Genocide

Israel knows this definition all too well
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, political, racial or cultural group. (random house)

and clearly this was not 06.Aug.2014 12:51

anon

If Israel wanted to kill Palestinian Civilians as a matter of policy, there would be hundreds of thousands dead, not about 1700.

The 1700 dead are tragic and sadly unnecessary, but to call this Genocide is dead wrong.

anon 07.Aug.2014 14:08

rAT

read it again. political group. systematic extermination. can you spell h-a-m-a-s? they are a political group last time i looked.

Hamas 08.Aug.2014 12:43

anon

Hamas has a political wing, and a military wing. The political wing that refused earlier ceasefires is led by Mashal, who lives in a luxury condo in Quatar. The local leadership (in Gaza) asked for this to end weeks ago. Palestinians in Gaza in recent polls who have not yet had their homes destroyed are overwhelmingly opposed to continuing the conflict.

Hamas has a charter that calls for the utter destruction of the State of Israel. Israel is inflicting great harm on the Palestinian people but has no such basic aim written into it's core documents, and is sending fuel, food, medicine, and power daily into Gaza to keep the population from collapse. It's a mess, but solve-able if the Palestine Authority (the sole legitimate representative of the PLO) is put back into power in Gaza rather than Hamas. The PA will continue to use legitimate tools including the new status at the UN to put pressure on Israel for a credible peace agreement.

Israel has many faults, but you defame the history of many places such as Rwanda and Cambodia when causally throwing the word "genocide" around, just because you want to trash talk Israel.

useless 08.Aug.2014 17:56

rAT

The Palestinian Authority is impotent, useless, and irrelevant. That's why Hamas was elected instead. Wiping them out through violence (A POLITICAL PARTY) constitutes Genocide, period. Israel has terrorized Gaza for decades, way before Hamas even existed. They keep stealing land and building settlements and cry "foul" when their victims retaliate. Likud's Netanyahu is a certified mass murderer and baby-killer from long ago. Google Sabra and Shatilla- two Lebanese refugee camps where thousands of innocents were slaughtered by Bibi and his pals. Dead babies galore. It's his damned M.O. Israel has always deliberately targeted civilians- it's part of their "terror" component. If the Bible freaks are right, (I don't know), Israel is playing with fire as the new extreme Islamic war machine (ISIS et. al.) focuses on wiping it out. Why Israel plays into it's own destruction is beyond me. It's enemies are all funded by the Saudis, the best pal of the USA. It's all leading to Thermonuclear Armageddon with or without the Bible and this continuing escalation of violence is insane. Pulling back from the nuclear brink is essential right now, but Obama and Bibi seem to be on a crash course toward THE BIG BANG. And to add to this mess, the USA keeps poking the Russian Bear as if it's Grenada and not a major nuclear power that can easily destroy most of the nation. YOU defend the slaughter of women and kids if you want, but it's good to remember that self-serving excuses did no one any good at Nuremburg.

you lose 11.Aug.2014 08:13

anon

Hamas won ONE election, which was more of a referendum against Arafat's corruption than an endorsement of radical Islamic rule. If you legitimize Hamas from one election you most likely also believe the Iraq is a success story.

By the way, as you can't support "genocide" and pivot to try to call Israeli's Nazis, we also have to remember that Hitler rose to power by winning an election. Democracy is not infallible.

Now you want to invoke right wing Christian nonsense about the end of days. Good Grief.

Bibi 11.Aug.2014 11:40

rAT

You ignore the reality of Bibi as a totally corrupt leader on every level. He's come close to being dumped many times for illegal acts. The MSM's canonization of him as some sort of humanitarian hero reeks of hypocrisy and craziness. A dyed in the wool warmonger and reactionary hothead are his biggest features. And we give him over three billion a year to perform his dirty work. Rave on. And I'm no Jesus Freak either, but as the Islamic world begins it's encirclement of Israel, you have to freakin' wonder if just maybe the story of human beings is coming to some sort of colossal peak after all. Drone Guy and Bibi the Baby Killer. What a pair for peace on Earth.

reality check 11.Aug.2014 12:07

anon

Bibi's an asshole. But worse yet are the coalition partners he's actually keeping in check. He fired the deputy defense minister Danny Danon recently for going over the top with inflammatory statements. Even Lieberman has been watching what he says lately which is most interesting.

Israel suffers from a coalition style govt where you have to bring together those you can't stand to make a government. Can you imagine if Obama had to bring in Sarah Palin to be Sec of State so he could be President?

But worse yet is what Hamas teaches children in their UN funded schools about Jews. Saying Hamas is a legitimate govt is like saying that the Confederacy should still rule the south ... they did have elections after all. Read up before you start one sided blame.

sorry boys 11.Aug.2014 14:16

a man

It's still genocide according to definition.
look up the word.
I know you can.
There is no way to soft peddle it. It's what the Israeli state has always wanted of the native populations inconveniently living there.
It gets in the way of a "greater Israel"
Look up the phrase.
I know you can.

two sided blame 11.Aug.2014 15:27

rAT

anon- There is no way I support that inflammatory IDIOT running Hamas either. Bloody Matzoh Balls? Gimme a break! Actually I think we probably agree on the need for DIALOGUE. Let's hope so. You and I don't really want to mirror the stalemated situation here on Indy.

aman 11.Aug.2014 16:04

anon

Greater Israel ... big problem. No different than Greater Palestine.

At least Israel isn't calling openly for removal of the Palestinian population, only crazies in the society. Hamas (if you want to call that a government) IS openly calling for the destruction of the Jewish State and removal of Jews.

Anyone who can only point fingers in one direction is blind.

" greater Palestine" 11.Aug.2014 19:10

a man

Show me the beef, anon, to justify any Palestinian desire for a "greater Palestine
" except the paranoid psychosis of the Israeli state to transfer all of its crimes to the victim. Maybe you mean a just Palestine with equal rights for all

a man 13.Aug.2014 13:40

anon

and the conversation such as it was, comes to a screeching halt as the haters as usual are in denial.

da Nile is over flowing its banks 13.Aug.2014 14:03

a man

"haters"?
Why do I believe that 'anon' is out of excuses for the genocide of the Palestinians by the criminal Israeli state?
When in doubt, fall back to paranoia. Lacking any reasonable counter claim, just like Israel does. I don't hate psychopaths, I just don't let them do my thinking for me.

really 14.Aug.2014 14:33

anon

"the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, political, racial or cultural group."

Since the population in Gaza is not even close to being in danger of "extermination", it is not Genocide.

A child could understand this. If you want to argue that the denial of what should be the population's basic rights is occurring, and that denial is deliberate and systematic then you would not have started this argument. You are a simpleton and a fool to continue to abuse the term genocide.

so damned predictable 14.Aug.2014 17:41

a man

So anon is using the " they haven't all been killed yet " defense.
It also left out a few words, it seems.

"Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or *part* of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group via the (a) Killing of members of the group; (b) Causing of serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberate inflicting on the group's conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing of measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (e) Forcible transferring of children of the group to another group. *** What constitutes enough of a "part" to qualify as genocide has been subject to much debate by legal scholars.***
A hint
Pathetic zionists always revert to insults when running on MT.

here we go 15.Aug.2014 14:09

anon

Then by the overly generous definition you've switched to in desperation, you're committing genocide here by b) inflicting mental harm on those reading. You sure make my brain hurt.

You're missing the point. We've got the cheapening of words here. Everything becomes a genocide, then genocide no longer has any meaning. It's exactly the same society dumbing down that makes every performance get a standing ovation. Applause used to be normal, and standing only reserved for when it's particularly special. Now every crap performance gets a standing ovation.

Kill anyone during a war, and now you want that to be genocide? Sorry. That's a load of crap.

" the overly generous definition" 15.Aug.2014 17:28

a man

you're kidding, right? Instead of the extremely abbreviated version?
Look here my little zionist, just stop murdering the native populations and instill an equal rights for all, one state solution.
problem solved.

stupid 16.Aug.2014 09:30

anon

Single State? A success story like Lebanon? Like Iraq? Should we shove India and Pakistan back together? Russia and Ukraine?

If you took the time to read actual Palestinian polls, less than 10 percent of these actual Palestinians in the land want a single state. Single state is a fantasy from ex-pats living in North America.

Those reading this should realize that this fantasy would kill more people than the actual conflict has so far. Now that WOULD be genocide.

where to begin? 16.Aug.2014 13:49

a man

ho ho ho what flummery...
You know, anon, you're even more pathetic than most of these weasels.
Lebanon? What incredible crust.
Do you mean before or after Israel came in and did a 20 year assault and 20k death toll on its people?
Oh, that's right, 'Greater Israel' which means everything they can murder the people off of...
nothing too extreme even for a 'nation' of psychopaths.
I think you zionists are afraid that a just, one state solution, with equal rights for all, would eliminate your job as a shill and laughable propaganda spook. To say nothing of the flagging arms deals.
But I do understand. Psychopaths never get enough of others blood and guts.

like me make a comment here 16.Aug.2014 16:36

a man

'anon' and 'rAT' stage a little tea party to, in essence, allow a huge equivocation, concerning the current Gaza genocide episode of Israeli mania. And boy, did I ever make a mess!
Sorry, boys, didn't want to derail this soft peddle, mass murder, festival.
forgive me.
ha

too bad you won't address any specific holes in your posts 16.Aug.2014 20:32

anon

Greater Israel = Greater Palestine. Same result, only difference is who oppresses whom.

I think I'm the only person posting here who recognizes that all the people in the region have the right to self determination. Peace will only come when everyone makes difficult compromises. I'm working on the Jewish side for peace, who in PDX is working on the Palestinian side? All I hear in Portland is strident hate filled voices like those here.

The current Egyptian proposal is a good one for Gaza, which is why Mashal is about to declare the cease fire over, fire some more missles, and prove he's still in charge. The people of Gaza will suffer because he is a crazy ass who is desperately clinging to power from his luxury apartment in Doha.

you're messed up 17.Aug.2014 04:48

a man

"Greater Israel = Greater Palestine. Same result, only difference is who oppresses whom"

and that's proof of crazy
Transference is an illness of the mind.
look it up
" I'm working on the Jewish side for peace"
This is not 'Jewish" this is zionist psychotic confusion where 'self determination' only applies to Israel and means mass graves for others.
I call it "Jewpoxy" and you individuals use a whole bunch of it to glue Jews to zionism.

stage? 17.Aug.2014 12:21

rAT

A Man: I didn't "stage" anything. Tea Party my ass. I brought the subject up in the first place. Just trying to remain civil in an uncivil world. Excuse me!