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science and religion

The following use of language is outside of the language structure used by the propaganda system for both academic and public discourse about science and religion, where the usual context of the language of the propaganda system is a pathetic excuse for intellectual discourse.
Thus, buttons in the minds of everyone will be pushed in a negative manner, by reading this paper, for all who have previously entered into such discussions concerning either science or religion.
See m concoyle at scribd.com ie put in "web-site-reference" m concoyle
Nonetheless new ideas need to be expressed, even though everyone believes in a childish viewpoint concerning rationality, where, supposedly, intellectuals only deal with absolute truths, or they only deal with a consensus, where science should be exactly the opposite of a consensus. Namely, science needs to challenge authority at every turn, and new ideas need to always be considered, especially, since (for example) the spectra of atoms with more that 4-components, eg a nucleus and some electrons, cannot be found to sufficient precision by direct calculation by using the laws of quantum physics etc, etc, eg similarly in regard to identifying the spectra of general nuclei to sufficient precision, etc. etc.

It is materialism, and the math structures associated to materialism, which are not capable of identifying the cause of the observed stable properties of many, fundamental, material systems. Yet, it is the model of particle-collisions in a context of materialism which both defines modern physics, and is the basis for nuclear weapons technology. This structure for knowledge exists because these are the wishes of the ruling-class. Yet, the failures, of such a model for knowledge, are the causes of the social collapse, due to not enough practical creative expansion, in turn, due to the act of constraining knowledge and restricting its relation to practical creativity.
See m concoyle at scribd.com ie put in "web-site-reference" m concoyle

However, this short discussion depends on a new math construct for "science" where a model for both stable material systems and living systems are based on these systems being stable shapes, which can be of various dimensional types, so that these new types of models of material systems possess stable spectral-orbital properties which allow the stable spectral properties of these systems to be determinable to sufficient precision, and it will show that this new math construct for "science" (where science is a quantitative and measurable descriptive language, which provides a model for interpreting the world's experiences) is a language which transcends the categories and stereotypical-beliefs concerning both science (ie materialism) and religion (the spirit (whatever the spirit is?)), a separation of subject-content which the propaganda system tries so desperately to instill into the culture, where its success at this time (2013) is phenomenal. And thus, the very limited range of thought about these topics within the culture.

The material events we experience appear to remain consistent with the idea of materialism, since the appearances determined by close (or nearby) events, ie the construct of (local) convergence, do remain within the material-containing metric-space, ie the material containing metric-space has an open-closed topology, but the stable and/or functioning properties of both material systems and living systems (as well as math operators) cannot be understood without reference to a higher-dimensional math structures (ie the observed, stable properties of many fundamental material systems cannot be described, in a valid manner, based only on the idea of materialism), and having a relation between sets of discontinuous structures requires that the operators, which mediate between the dimensional levels, be discrete, in regard to both discrete time-intervals and between discontinuously separated different dimensional shapes (where these shapes model different metric-spaces).

The existence of stable patterns, which can be consistently identified in one's own experience, ie can be measured, is the math context which is equivalent to (or can contain, without contradiction) a passive-creator model (of religion), but this new math context... ,
where in the new alternative viewpoint, math constructs are associated to sets of discrete hyperbolic shapes, defined in a many-dimensional context, where there are many metric-function "signatures" (see below) for the different dimensional levels (where odd-dimensional levels (or shapes) are contained in even-dimensional levels, and vise-versa)
... , also allows (or must allow) for an set of energy-generating, and self-reflective, stable geometric patterns to exist in various high-dimensions, including the 3-dimensional level, ie a 3-dimensional hyperbolic metric-space, modeled as a stable discrete hyperbolic shape, which, in turn, is contained in a 4-dimensional hyperbolic metric-space, where the related metric-function has a "signature" related to the coordinate space R(4,2) (see below).
This is an active-creator model of existence, but the creator is, actually, a life-form, in fact, it could be ourselves.
The new alternative ideas are about a measurable descriptive context, which depends on a math model of a (local) measuring-construct, ie a derivative, in turn, based on a new discrete structure for the (local) operators, where these discrete operators are a part of (or contained in) a "many-dimensional and many-time-interval" context, where the multiplicity of time-intervals, which are (or can be) associated to various metric-spaces, and are also associated to different "signature" metric-functions, eg R(4,2) has 4-space dimensions and 2-temporal dimensions [and whose metric-function "signature" is, 4-2=2]. Thus this model of existence can be about a 3-dimensional discrete hyperbolic shape, contained in four spatial dimensions... ,
(a shape of odd-genus, ie odd-number of holes in its shape, eg a doughnut (or torus) has one-hole in its shape),
... , which can generate its own energy (due to a charge imbalance, due, in turn, to the shape's geometry), and it is contained in a 4-dimensional hyperbolic metric-space, and this accounts for the interest in the R(4,2) metric-space, which has "two dimensions of time" associated to itself, one time-dimension associated to regular material motions and the other time-dimension associated to the motions of energy-generating "materials."
In other words, the high-dimensional energy-generating shapes, associated to certain odd-dimensional discrete hyperbolic shapes (whose genus are odd)... .,
and defined on generalized non-positive constant curvature metric-spaces, where the metric-functions must have constant coefficients (so as to be relatable to a "continuously commutative everywhere shape" [ie a circle-space shape])
... ., is the natural context for both science and religion, where religion is about practical creativity of life-forms which fit within the true math containment structure (or math model) for existence, ie many-dimensional and very deeply associated to the very stable discrete hyperbolic shapes, where these stable shapes are needed so as to be able to account for the stable spectral properties of quantum systems, so that the spectra of these systems can be identified to sufficient precision.
These stable shapes, placed in a metric-invariant containment space, provide models both for stable material systems and the higher-dimensional structures which allow living, energy-generating, shapes to exist. Thus this new math construct allows for (or provides) a model for life, whose living functions come from a set of stable shapes which exists in higher-dimensions than the dimensions, which the idea of materialism define.

If the "creationists" want a math model which includes ideas about stability, measurability, and control, and of a "repeat-ably measurable" descriptive context... ,
ie a model of our experience, and which is associated to higher-dimensions, ie transcending the idea of materialism, ie being able to mathematically model an existence which is beyond the material world
... , then they need to consider these math patterns very carefully.

This math construct models "the spirit" as an actual existing structure in a higher-dimensional space, where "spirit" now means; existence in higher-dimensions than the dimensions of material containment (where material containment is usually defined by the idea of materialism).

But the idea of a "deep-creator" is not external, rather it is within each and everyone of us.

This is also why law should be based on equality, and not based on property rights and minority rule.

Basically people become used to the "abuse by society," and its subjective hierarchy, because they like the public buildings and the sewer systems which their emperors built (eg in a similar manner as the Romans), but such (civic) creativity does not need to be attached to the idea of an oppressive emperor (or, today, a modern big banker, or oilman, or weapons supplier).