It's started.

WTF again!

You wrote: "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading. "\

Do you understand how fucking insane that sounds?

Soap Box ---> Jury Box ---> Ballot Box ---> Cartridge Box

by the way,

that quote:
" Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading. "

has been widely and spuriously attributed to Thomas Jefferson (but it's not actually his) - it's a quote that gets wide circulation, nevertheless and whoever really came up with it, among right wing / gun rights / 2nd Amendment advocates.

 http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/peace-brief-glorious-moment-historyquotation

The history of the phrase gives a window into understanding how needs were different at different times.

The actual need of being armed was understandable in a time without GPS and 911 services. Not counting those living in farming communities or literally on the frontier.

[Though in the case of the frontier, 'rights' to cartridge box were irrelevant. You had a gun and you used it, or you didn't live long. Its interesting to note women in urban areas were probably more limited in this respect. On the frontier if a woman had a gun she used it and no one argued about it for obvious reasons....]

What one walks away with is the groups encouraging paranoia over "losing their gun rights" seem to be emotionally in a state of fear where they imagine they are facing the same dangers as in the wild west frontier. And/or they imagine themselves disenfranchised like escaped slaves or women struggling for suffrage. How do they get themselves worked up to be so out of touch with reality? Basically money making fear mongers like Alex Jones and other cult leaders are convincing people civil war is 'right around the corner". This is as dangerous and irresponsible as Tom Metzger's hate mongering and the consequences:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Metzger_(white_supremacist)
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulugeta_Seraw

This same conspiracy bullshit around Sandy Hook inspiring gun nuts is inspiring people to hunt down survivors of the tragedy as "agents" or "actors". The people pushing this extremest crap had better hope no one decides to "take out" one of the "agents" with a gun....

For the record, I personally have no problem with responsible gun use. But the idea private citizens are entitled to easy access to assault weapons is ludicrous. I don't think they should be banned, but they should have the same restrictions and training requirements as other dangerous, specialized equipment does. And back ground checks. Duh.

If you need a gun so urgently that a background check is too long, you should be calling 911.

There is no such thing as an "assault weapon".

It's a euphemism which came into being during the early 1990s, around time of passage of first U.S. Assault Weapons Ban (i.e. it was a term coined for that specific piece of legislation, by the politicians who sought to pass it).

The term is an arbitrary, completely cosmetically (i.e. exterior appearance of "scary looking features")-based one.

It has

NOTHING

WHATSOEVER

to do with the functioning of the firearms themselves in question.

i.e. semi-automatic 'military pattern'/'scary looking' rifles, **function** in the EXACT SAME way as other semi-automatic firearms.

(a true assault rifle, from which the 'assault weapons' euphemism was derived, is a __select fire__ weapon that can be fired on **full automatic** i.e. hold trigger down, fire multiple shots. Assault rifles are military-issue ONLY. In the U.S., a ban on manufacture and ownership of full automatic firearms, classified overall by the NFA as _machine guns_, by civilians has existed since 1986 - this was enacted under the Reagan administration.)

"Assault weapon"??? Fists; feet; baseball bat; knife.

SEE THE URL PROVIDED BELOW.


-------> There is a background check for every firearm transaction required by Federal law -

it's called Form 4473. (using the NICS system)

so that already exists.



You wrote:
" easy access to assault weapons "

If you are referring to semi-automatic rifles which share characteristics with some military-issue assault rifles, as mentioned above -- all firearms, no matter what type, transacted in this country already have a background check federally required.

Adam Lanza in Connecticut last December, for example, attempted to purchase a semi-automatic rifle at a local gun store several days before the shooting and was rejected.

So the system is in place and working.

Rex knows what assault rifle really means, he's just towing the company line more and more these days. Next he'll be calling magazines "clips." And WTF rex? 911? GPS?

How about we all use Facebook and pledge allegiance to the flag and shop at the Nike store?

I get what you're saying, but I think you're pendulum's back swing is going a little too far. Tom Metzger? Really? Why not compare gun rights awareness to Charles Manson or Hitler or Skeletor? Too often you come off as a supporter of state authority. Don't let your grievances with the truthers re-shape your mind.

Deliberately misunderstand all you want...You'll still look like an idiot claiming that firearms designed for warfare[killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible] are your "constitutional right" to own without restrictions.

@"@"

I'm not flirting with Godwin. But you are. The reason Metzger is relevant is because organized white supremacists actively and aggressively promoted the hysterical gun rights bullshit in the wake of Sandy Hook...and the 'gun rights' people welcomed them. Not because Metzer is part of a club of villainous characters.

We are not living on the frontier. Your daily life is not rife with dangers equal to a cop, soldier or private detective. The fact many people are in a state of fear THEY THINK SO is a sign of neurosis or mental illness. Mental illness and guns don't mix.

Holy shit!

Bank of America just drew a line in the sand.

And....

Here's the good news:

All of us PIMC readers have (probably) always been on the same side of this line...

...Now gun owners are on our side too.

Anyone want to do an Open Carry rally outside of Bank of America?

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK were they thinking? Hahaha!

Fine, rex. But it strikes me odd that an activist doesn't see why military style weapons are important for the public to own and bear, and please don't call me an idiot. Hate groups don't have a monopoly on 2nd Amendment awareness, but they do get press.

Realize there are also intelligent, well-meaning people behind gun rights advocacy who don't do business with Bank of America anyways. Most activists/anarchists I know are armed, they're just quieter about it than the "Don't Tread On ME" crowd. No sane person wants war, but surely a thoughtful person can recognize how an armed people is more likely to keep oppression at bay.

I really am surprised. I'm not deliberately misunderstanding and you can't demonize the whole issue of gun rights because white supremacists weighed in. That sounds like that crazy kid squealing at Fidelity on the astroturfing thread. Understanding the history of big government and gun control isn't a mental illness.

"McMillian Mfg in Phoenix, Arizona, was contacted by Bank of America and informed that they will no longer be allowed to use their services ( Bank of America ) because they are in the firearms business and support the second amendment."

Could we see a copy of what the Bank sent? Letter? Email? Link? All we have is a second hand report of someone's conversation that's clearly biased.

There's no documentation so far. If this alleged interview is the only "proof" of an imminent "Third Reich" as OP implies(BTW, that's using Godwin), this is a fear mongering scam.

This exchange is highly doubtful:

----"What you are going to tell me is that because we are in the firearms manufacturing business you no longer want my business."
----"That is correct", he says.

But it might be a slanted version of a more plausible exchange: the bank representative trying to explain that the account needs to be adjusted because the account holder's business practices have changed. It would be just like a paranoid gun nut to misinterpret something like, "These records need to be updated or we can't continue doing business" into "They're trying to take my rights away!!!!"


Get a grip.

Hate to say I told you so....

This was so improbable I did some searching. OP may have gotten this bs emailed this month, but this bullshit has been around since at least October of 2012:

 https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/22/1148424/-They-don-t-even-know-WTF-it-means

And originates from events covered by FOX news in APRIL of 2012:

 link to www.foxnews.com


This Snopes link(which I found on the gun forum calguns.net:  http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=9708294 )should set people straight:

 http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/bankofamerica.asp

Losing Interest
Claim: Bank of America has declined to continue doing business with industries involved in gun sales.

MIXTURE:
UNDETERMINED: Bank of America canceled the credit line of a firearms manufacturer.

FALSE: Bank of America blocks purchases of firearms or ammunition made with their debit/credit cards.

[snip]

Origins: On 19 April 2012, Kelly D. McMillan, Director of Operations for McMillan Group International, posted the above-quoted account
on that company's Facebook page, stating that a during a meeting a Senior Vice President with Bank of America plainly told him the bank was no longer interested in doing business with McMillan Group because McMillan was now in the firearms manufacturing business. Mr. McMillan maintains his account accurately describes what took place at that meeting.

We contacted Bank of America for a response, and spokeswoman Anne Pace told us that while she could not comment on the bank's relationship with McMillan Group, she could tell us that Bank of America "has no policies that would prohibit us from doing business with clients in [the firearms] industry":

QUOTE: While we cannot discuss the details of any individual client we work with, we can assure you the allegations being made here are completely false. Bank of America does not have a policy that prohibits us from banking clients in this industry. In fact, we have numerous, longstanding customers in the industry.


As evidence, Ms. Pace pointed us to an April 2012 financial news article which mentioned, among other topics, a $250 million business deal involving Bank of America with Freedom Group Inc., one of the world's largest manufacturers of firearms and ammunition:  link to articles.chicagotribune.com

Elsewhere, talk of 8% area is out on the US$250m third lien senior secured notes from FGI Operating Co (Freedom Group Inc). The eight-year non-call three issue is being led by BofA Merrill, Deutsche Bank and RBC joint books. Proceeds of the deal, which is expected to price in the afternoon, will be used to fund bond tender offers. Freedom Group makes guns and ammunition.

In December 2012 Joe Sirochman, the owner of American Spirit Arms, claimed in a Facebook post that Bank of America froze his company's account because he is in the firearms business: link to www.facebook.com

QUOTE: My name is Joe Sirochman owner of American Spirit Arms and I wanted to share my recent experience with Bank of America (which we have been doing business with for over 10 years). Everyone is familiar with the latest increase in guns sales, dealers selling out of inventory, manufacturers backlogged for months, large revenue all generated in the last two weeks. American Spirit Arms is no exception to the overwhelming demand. What we have experienced is that our web site orders have jumped 500% causing our web site E-commerce processing larger Deposits to BANK OF AMERICA. Well, this through up a huge RED Flag with Bank of America. So they decided to hold the deposits for further review, meaning that the orders/payments that were coming in through the web (being paid by the customer and that were shipped out by American Spirit Arms), the BANK was keeping (UNDER REVIEW ). As you could imagine this made me furious. After countless hours on the phone with BANK OF AMERICA I finally got a Manager in the right department that told me the reason that the deposits were on hold for FURTHER REVIEW ... HER EXACT WORDS WERE:

"WE BELIEVE YOU SHOULD NOT BE SELLING GUNS and PARTS ON THE INTERNET"

I flipped the F**k Out and told them that they have no right to make up their own new rules and regs, that we are a firearms Manufacturer with all the proper licensing FFL (Federal Firearm license), SOT, and that we follow all Federal and All States' rules and regulations on shipping Firearms and parts and that we are also Audited by ATF and Homeland Security on a regular basis. She said that she understands that but that the deposits will be released After they have a Chance to review and clear them. I told her that This was unacceptable and the those deposits (that were a week old by now) needed to be released ASAP, that we are a small business and rely on the revenue to run and stay operational. After that being said another Manager got involved and released one of the deposits (to help out). So far to date after Two weeks of sales only 1/3 of collected internet sales have been released. I am still pissed and looking for another Bank and options.

I just thought the public should know.

I will keep everyone posted on new developments.



Bank of America maintained that the situation encountered by Mr. Sirochman was merely a routine review triggered by a sudden large spike in volume which had since been resolved and had nothing to do with the nature of his business:

QUOTE: This customer's concerns have been resolved. Any spike in transaction volumes is routinely reviewed by the bank in order to protect our customers. This process is initiated regardless of the industry in which they do business.



A January 2013 video claimed to document a Bank of America representative stating that the banking chain would no longer accept purchases of firearms or ammunition made with their credit or debit cards:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4f2h5EiWPY

However, when we contacted Bank of America ourselves, a representative told us that the company had no such policy, and another video related that same information, contradicting the previous video:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fycC5LUujpM





IMC readers, please stop spreading hysterical bullshit. SNOPES is your friend.

So, McMillian is old news, as Rex said, this was an old story.

However, I think the OP might have gotten this confused with the recent story about American Spirit Arms - the owner claims that their accounts were frozen, and after dozens of hours on the phone, the owner reached a BoA manager who said "'WE BELIEVE YOU SHOULD NOT BE SELLING GUNS and PARTS ON THE INTERNET" - Bank Of America counters this claim saying that they received an unusual surge of transactions and ceased processing them out of fraud concerns. In either case, it appears this issue has been resolved according to the Huffington Post:

 link to www.huffingtonpost.com

Or has it?

Breaking news, 6 hours ago:
 http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/rahm-emanuel-presses-banks-on-guns-86706.html

"Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, moving to take a lead role in the gun control debate, is turning up the pressure on banks that do business with firearms manufacturers."

Maybe ole Rahm Israel Emanuel caught wind of the same email that the OP did and thought, "Shit, that's a good idea!"

In either case, I think this is actually a positive development for anyone regardless of how they feel about the 2nd Amendment. More than likely, this news will spread like wildfire through the gun community, and a lot of them are going to seriously wonder if their bank will capitulate to the government. Walmart has almost entirely backed down from working with the Feds, because they didn't want to go the Kmart route. If you're not aware, Kmart was once one of this biggest gun sellers in the country, until Michael Moore and Clinton tore into them - as a response, gun owners boycotted them entirely, and now Kmart is... well... I don't know... take a look at their stock options, it's probably shit.

There's a pretty good chance that gun owners will have the same response to Bank of America or any other Bank that works with the Democrats on political grounds. As this news spreads their brand is going to be totally diminished and associated as untrustworthy. This might come to a surprise to some of the ultra-left/anarchists on PIMC, but not all of this country sees Bank of America as the epitome of evil. There's still a huge portion of this country that delusionally think the Banks really were not that bad, and it was the home owners who made bad choices.

So, if you don't like Bank of America, then congratulations, there's now a whole lot more people who don't like Bank of America. And, now there's an excuse to protest BoA (and other banks) while armed. Let their Executives think about that.

Also: we shouldn't find this surprising, the real enemies of firearms within a society are not the common working person, the real enemy has always been the urban elites. The elites know that their security is predicated upon weakening the great masses of the people. They know their henchmen and police are only so strong, and so it's really the urban elites who fear guns the most. These elites also know that regardless of laws that are passed, they can still ensure their own physical safety, that they can always own a pistol and 5 guards for security - it's only the commoners and peasants that must be disarmed. I wouldn't be surprised if BoA and other banks take up Rahm Israel Emanuel's plans.

I understand people's frustration with Fidelity. His posts show he thinks everyone who disagrees with him is an idiot, but he can't do a basic fact check before falling for the latest conspiracy scam.

In this thread alone he was calling for an open carry rally, I assume like these idiots:

 link to www.kgw.com

All based on a NINE MONTH OLD STORY with holes in it, yet is being used as PROOF "it" is starting right now.

Fidelity is at the very least a gullible fool. It's no surprise some people take joy in trolling him back.

I just call out bullshit when I see it.

If you think I wrote some bullshit, call me out on it, please.

I am absolutely committed to contributing to the marketplace of ideas in a positive way, and I very much enjoy a challenge in explaining my ideas.

When I use derogatory statements it is usually to make someone feel ashamed of their own stupidity. Calling a person out as a moron is really the only method of wrist-slapping that we have here on the net, so I use it when appropriate. I'm not trolling people to degrade conversations, but to only boost the spread of positive ideas while dispelling noxious ideology. Personally, I'm trying to take partial ownership of this awesome website that so many activists and anarchists use because it seems to be overrun with loons and other people who use it to destroy the credibility of real activists and thinkers. PIMC can either be a positive site to spread ideas, or a cesspool of conspiracy theories and self-hating - people like you and I, @rex, and the other contributors, make up the sum total of how valuable this site is.

We posted within two minutes of each other. Your post was not visible at that time. Had I seen it sooner, I might have been less harsh in my comment.

I'm surprised, but pleased to see you accept the facts at Snopes. Good for you; this will help you expand your critical thinking skills.

It's still foolish to rush into a cause without checking the facts or source. For those of you concerned about guns rights, you need to be aware many organizations want to exploit that much more than the government oppression that is perceived.

Are posts being moderated?

Not seeing a post 2 minutes after submission is one thing.

But being invisible after almost eight minutes? As Fidelity's was?(Ergo I must assume MY posts were invisible while he was writing) WTF?

IMC needs to fix this. You can't complain if threads are junked with people arguing when their reason for arguing is because the supposedly real time comment system is NOT real time and contributes to misunderstanding.

Your Quote: "We are not living on the frontier. Your daily life is not rife with dangers equal to a cop, soldier or private detective."


It's Not About the Daily Dangers that rife the Above, It's about Maintaining the Weapons when the Group You Described created a new niche for Themselves, Thinking that They are Above the Law, and have the Belief that Because of their So Called Service deserve a Bigger Piece of the Pie than you Commoners.


They like to Refer to Themselves as "First Responders"

I like to Refer to them as Criminal Traitors.

And "They" are fully aware of the Media Subversion in the United States, and the implementation of the Prisoners and Prostitutes to News and Political Proselytizers Program.

Media Subversion and Prostitution List
 http://goo.gl/5Ldac

Take Care, You Dumbass.


-Tracy Mapes

I think Tracy is sometimes a bit off sometimes too (sorry Tracy, sometimes you're really reaching for a conspiracy or are too vague and I just don't feel you, other times you're spot on and I like your contributions, and what's up with Your Capitalization?) - BUT - I understand what Tracy getting at here:

Tracy is saying that Rex is a cop-lover. Rex depends upon the State for protection "calling 911". By disavowing the Right of people to self-defense, he's saying that people ought to be dependent upon the State and police. Rex wants ONLY the police to protect people, as that is the ultimate extension of his philosophy that people should have restrictions on "assault rifles" - that certain tools of self-defense are bad. We more or less have this State-dependent 911 system of protection now now, and it clearly doesn't work for anyone (unless you're rich and white). Throw off your chains and look at self-defense for what it plainly is: your responsibility.

I also find this notion of calling 911 very offensive, as Tracy Mapes does, and as logical people should too. The cops are not here to protect anyone, the cops are here to protect the system of oppression. Not all cops are aware, but very many are. They know what's going on when protestors are standing outside of a bank and they're lining up with riot shields. They see and read the banners. They choose to attack. Have you looked the cops in the eye? I would rather trust a random person on the street with an "assault weapon" than a random police officer.

Self-defense is your right. Community defense is everyone's duty. If you reject these notions, then who is ultimately responsible for protecting your body and your community?

@Rex - when you think of restrictions imposed upon "assault weapons", who do you think these restrictions are ultimately going to target? The answer is obvious: the weakest classes in society along with the politically radical and the most oppressed. The government doesn't give two shits about your safety. It's ALWAYS WRONG to restrict freedom unless there's at least a jury involved.

My Stories aren't Theories.

If You don't ask, You'll never know.

Our Country has gone so far over the Shelf, I don't know if it will ever recover.

Take Care,

-Tracy Mapes


PS- In 8 years of being on this site, I've probably received 2 e-mails from worker bees.
I was introduced to the site as a News Stringer in Sacramento during the GMO Modified Foods Conference of 2002. I was Shocked at the behavior of the Black Block 'A' Crowd for Defacing a Couple local TV Live Trucks. Now I know they were not out of line. They know who their enemy is. Sac IMC folded. That's why I tell my story here.

Though when I see the Shillery and Bickering, I lose most Hope of Our Country ever having the Chance it deserves to at least come beck to the World I grew up in.

Take Care,

-Tracy Mapes