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Mohamed Mohamud Trial: Day 4

Defense is doing serious damage to undercover FBI Agents' credibility
What is emerging from the last four days of testimony by the two undercover FBI operatives known only as "Youssef" and "Hussein" is that every single action that Mohamed Mohamud took in the furtherance of his alleged crime was taken on the explicit orders of the FBI. Mohamed's knowledge of explosives was limited to "Piccolo Pete" backyard firecrackers. Youssef gave him a hand-written shopping list of bomb components to purchase, a list that Mohamed failed to heed orders to destroy after using and which has now been duly entered into evidence.

Something else of interest in yesterday's proceedings was defense attorney Wax's effort, albeit a failed one, to convince Judge King to allow the jury to hear an "outtake" of FBI agent "Hussein" who apparently forgot to turn his wire off before using "colorful language" to express his glee at having "hooked" Mohamed following their August 19 meeting.

The defense has also begun to lay a foundation for asserting that the very idea of using Pioneer Square as the setting for an attack may have been introduced to Mohamed by the FBI agent "Youssef" during their meeting on July 30, 2010. This, by the way, would be the meeting that was not preserved on tape due to the equipment's "malfunction."

So In Other Words 18.Jan.2013 08:59

David Jenkins

In other words, if these FBI agents had been terrorists this wannabe murderer would have carried out their instruction in the same way because in the end, HE WANTED TO MURDER INNOCENTS. The defense's argument don't hold a bit of water and is simply bullshit.

But by all means make any excuse you can for this person who wanted to commit mass murder, because you know, he is just a poor duped little boy. Spit!

Dear Company Man 18.Jan.2013 09:25

Really Obvious

yeah (spit) now you're getting it The fucken FBI are terrorist, they talked (tricked)(coached)(planned) (provided) (escorted) a young man into the crime they wanted and needed done.

Hell he was trying to go to Alaska on a fishing boat but due to (his Name) being added to (wink) the terrorist FBI Homeland Security NO FLY watch-list (how convenient) - (wink/spit) he couldn't travel, he couldn't even leave like he was wanting to, to get a JOB ...shit .... Oh well (spit) ....Hey look some terrorist FBI agents are(lurking) around in suit coats with a plot up their sleeve. (Did you read the article how they used colorful language in glee.)

The young man was coached for the patsy terrorist plot they needed for the false flag...
Wake up and smell the reality of a set up sting.
The government is spinning the story enough, and now you want to help them?

Good reporting 18.Jan.2013 11:31

a.m.

Thanks so much for showing up and reporting this!

Yeah, Wink, wink 18.Jan.2013 12:33

David Jenkins

Really obvious is oblivious to the point that had these fbi agents actually been terrorists, this wannabe murderer of innocents would have followed along just as he did in the fbi sting. The only difference is that the bomb would have been real, just as he thought it was during the fbi sting, and he would have triggered the bomb and murdered innocent people. Wake up and quit being an apologist for a wannabe mass murderer, dumb ass.

Oh snap, oh snap 18.Jan.2013 13:32

a.m.

David, name one "terrorist" convicted in the u.s. in the last 40 years who was NOT urged toward violence by FBI informants.

also 18.Jan.2013 13:34

a.m.

If Right-Wing Violence Is Up 400%, Why Is the FBI Targeting Environmentalists?
 http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/right-wing-violence-increase-west-point-study/6704/

Hey Jenkins 18.Jan.2013 13:37

Fidelity

If I held a gun to your head, and to the head of your family, and gave you the option of pushing a button to blow up a bomb that you knew would kill hundreds of innocent people - OR - you (and your family) take a bullet to the head, which would you chose?

There's no evidence that this guy was directly threatened by the FBI -as some tapes went missing- but I also doubt the provocateurs simply asked MoMo nicely. If I was an undercover FBI terrorist, I would put my pistol on the table and tell you straight up, "You know too much, and if you back down then we are going to kill everyone you know, we will kill everyone you might have told. You cannot leave or else you will die." That's exactly how I would operate in that situation if I were trying to make my FBI career out of some dumb shmuck: I would casually threaten him into doing it, or at least give him the impression that he cannot back out. I would make my hypothetical question roll through his head every time he doubted what he wanted to do.

In my hypothetical question, you can make an assumption about the moral and ethical decision you would make, but in the real world people make self-interested decisions and we can't condemn people for making tough choices. If MoMo perceived that his life was in danger, and that he *had* to carry out this attack, I would think that would be a reasonable defense that the FBI baited, pressured, coerced, and entrapped this kid into it.

Protip: to get anything done in the world, anything at all, you fundamentally need two things: Ability, and Will. In other words, the Will or Desire to do something, and the physical Ability or capability to do it. MoMo might have a slight will to attack innocent people, but he entirely lacked the capability, making him harmless - further, there's not any real evidence that his Will was strong enough to seek out the capability. It sounds as if the FBI found this kid on the internet and sought out meetings with him. Certainly once they had him hooked they stopped him from getting away.

Regardless, I fundamentally agree with you, I don't want this guy around my community or town anymore. Fuck'm.

ok Fidelity 18.Jan.2013 14:41

...

There is a WHOLE lot of hypothetical in your post that doesn't have any basis in any of the facts that have come out as of yet, so I'm not sure why you think that carries any weight. I can come up with a ton of maybe's also. Same thing, they mean nothing.

You speak of will, or intent, and that factors heavily into the law. And in this case, it is pretty obvious that he intended to kill a lot of people. Sure he was helped, but the intent was still there.

You can't start claiming coercion until we have some evidence that it was done. And so far, even his defense isn't making that claim.

Oh my 18.Jan.2013 15:53

a.m.

Wow! Anti-semitic, woman hating Fidelity is still really stupid.

WTF? 18.Jan.2013 15:54

Fidelity

The entire defense is predicated on entrapment and coercion.

I was merely offering up this hypothetical question in a more direct proposition than the provocateurs likely offered, though I'm nearly certain that the provocateurs implied a threat. This was just to demonstrate the likely dynamic going on inside MoMo's mind. If MoMo wanted out, he couldn't of just texted the agents and said, "Fuck off." MoMo was operating under the assumption that these guys were hardcore illegal bomb makers and Islamic terrorists. I offered this hypothetical situation to refute Jenkin's proposition that MoMo was acting within his own free will - I think it is certain that MoMo assumed violence was a guaranteed if he tried to back out. So, unless the prosecution is actually able to prove that MoMo was the instigator (for example the claim that MoMo chose the Tree Lighting ceremony and carried on with planning deliberately and with enthusiasm) coercion was certainly an element.

There's an analogy to dealing with a police officer: through the fear of reprisal most people will be coerced into doing what a police officer tells them to do. Obviously these provocateurs were not "police" in a traditional sense, however I'm certain that MoMo feared reprisal if he didn't please his compatriots.

In either case, fuck MoMo. He still pushed the button, I'm fine with watching him hang in the square even if he was entirely coerced. MoMo easily could have sought help from outsiders.

@a.m. - Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Nidal Malik Hasan... . The list goes on and on. The government does target Right Wing folks, lots and lots of them. Ask July4Patriot. Ask the Oath Keepers. The Right Wing has been under serious pressures since Obama took office. There's also a lot of people who think that the entire White Supremacist movement is entirely composed of informants and provocateurs, and that the movement only exists because of the government. I actually find this claim to be mostly credible. Plus, it's not just the Environmentalists that the government is worried about, in fact, I'd say they're least concerned about "radical vegans" and people who bust animal cages or sit in trees. They're much more concerned about peace-activists, anarchists, and veterans. The traditional "left" is usually on a nuisance to society, not a threat to society - that's why they ignore you.

......................... 18.Jan.2013 16:44

...............

Fidelity, a white supremacist walked into a mosque in Wisconsin and started executing people while the government sat back and did nothing. This Kerry Cunneen activist is facing potential jail time for temporarily disrupting capital by maybe possibly knowing something about a bunch of broken windows? What the are you talking about?

Yo Fidelity 18.Jan.2013 16:53

David Jenkins

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass every time he jumped.

Let's not talk hypothetical here, ok? Lets just talk about a person who, thinking he was executing a plan to kill a bunch of innocent men, women and children, followed along up to the point of actually entering the code to explode the device. Those are the facts as I understand them. If this is in fact true, he needs to be locked up for a long time.

You surmise that this dude having the will would not have found a way to do it. Well, I would say that you are either incredibly naive or just full of crap.

The old adage "where there is a will, there is a way" applies, especially to a mass murderer bent on killing. From the testimony I have read, he was bent on killing on behalf of his god, and made a bye bye video saying as much. I don't understand how anyone, after reading the testimony so far, can defend this wannabe killer of innocents.

Thinking cap, yo! 18.Jan.2013 17:14

a.m.

"I don't understand how anyone, after reading the testimony so far, can defend this wannabe killer of innocents."

This is because you have your head up your arm pit on two major points:

1) It was not just anyone who supplied him with the cell phone and game plan. It was not some underground terrorist. IT WAS SOME FBI PIG MOTHERFUCKER. F - B - I. COINTELPRO, Skippy!! Look it up!

2) You will slant this narrative any old way you can in order to convince yourself that you can provide an argument to support the government's bullshit. Great. Fine.

We'll execute you first.

Hypothetical 18.Jan.2013 17:28

Garth

But David, the whole idea that he was going to commit a terrorist act is at one level hypothetical. He may have told someone he wanted to, but so what? The FBI led him to the point where that hypothetical became a potential reality. It is entrapment, writ large.

And if you think thinking that a teenager is blowing hot air is naive, then you are not living in reality.

I defend him simply because the FBI led him to this point. There is little difference between what the FBI did in this case and if they had planted evidence on him.

Think before you speak 18.Jan.2013 17:31

David Jenkins

Well a.m. since the successful ones blew their asses up along with their victims, I guess they couldn't be convicted, could they. Hassan is coming up for trial, don't think he was coerced by the fbi into the Fort Hood Shooting. How about the underwear bomber or the shoe bomber, they weren't coerced by the fbi either, were they? Those are just off the top, sure that there are more. Snap, oh snap, remove thy head from rectum and quit defending wannabe mass murderers.

As far as your right wing violence comment, I would guess the the environmentalists are getting in the way of corporate profit and are targeted by pResident Obama's DOJ because the corporations own them. Make sense to ya?

Dave-0 18.Jan.2013 18:19

a.m.

C'mon, man, you're not even trying.

Research! Research, fool!!!

Jesus.......

What a bunch of Stupid Bullshit 19.Jan.2013 08:40

David Jenkins

NO, a.m. you dhimmis will make any excuse you can to protect a piece of shit wannabe murderer like this momo who wants to kill for his fucked up god. Then you make some veiled threat to "execute me first" because I disagree with you! Sounds like you and little momo have a lot in common. Garth wants to defend him because the fbi was involved in taking him down, no matter that he wanted to push the button and kill innocents. snap, oh snap, wink, wink, skippy LOL, what a fucking tool you are a.m. for trying to be so cute with your juvenile bullshit. Willful stupidity is boring. Buh, bye dhimmis, have fun making excuses for your fanatic religious buddy who wants to kill your dumb asses.

Davey!! 20.Jan.2013 17:28

a.m.

It pleases me no end that I have upset you!!!

And Sharia? Seriously? That's all you got?

Run along and get a life. You are incapable of having any grasp of this argument.

You are an embarrassment.

Spoken Like a True Fool 21.Jan.2013 05:09

David Jenkins

Ah, but you are wrong there a.m. You haven't upset me in the least. I fully knew that when I entered this conversation with you that I was talking to a child that didn't have the capability to understand adult things. When you grow up, maybe you will get wiser, but from your silly ass comments here, I doubt it. LOL Now run along home, your mommy is calling ya, Skippy.

Dave, Dave, Dave,..... 21.Jan.2013 12:01

a.m.

Thanks for continuing to bring a chuckle to my day! You'll keep personally addressing me, I'll keep laughing.

Look how successful I have been in pulling you away from the topic at hand to make you resort to infantile banter!

Back soon to see how you respond to this one. I am already having a GREAT day. THANKS!!!!

Hugs,
a.m.

P.S. "your mommy is calling ya, Skippy." Again, the best ya got? Laugh? I peed!!!!!

LOL, little boy 21.Jan.2013 13:03

David Jenkins

Is that your nonnie nonnie boo boo there, skippy, LOL. You haven't diverted anything, junior. The subject is brain dead dhimmis supporting a wannabe murderer, you are the textbook example. You jumped in with your juvenile bullshit and just made it more interesting. I get a lot of pleasure watching a moron think he has won an argument, when he hasn't posted anything except childish gibberish. Hugs back junior, and be sure to change your panties after you peed in them. I too am having a great day, it is fun to have a battle of wits with an unarmed moron such as yourself, so I too will be back soon to see you desperately try to be humorous and relevant, when you are just childish and ignorant. It's good to have a laugh, Thanks, junior.

How do you know that? 22.Jan.2013 20:08

---

>>>In other words, if these FBI agents had been terrorists this wannabe murderer would have carried out their instruction in the same way because in the end, HE WANTED TO MURDER INNOCENTS.

There is a big difference between what people idly talk about when they're impassioned(or even delusional) and what they'll actually do if given the opportunity. Or what they'll do if given the opportunity AND believe they're protected/will never be caught.

By that last standard many people are latent "terrorists".

What stops most people in the first world who are mad enough to even starting is the fact they DON'T have access to the resources, materials, skills, etc.

Try this exercise: You KNOW a guy is a pedophile. You become involved in a group for social justice that opposes childhood sexual exploitation. After several months, you're approached to help "take out" this guy. A plan, materials and equipment are made available to you. Your rage short circuits your thinking process, and you ignore the uncertainty of group members who won't be involved. But you know the target is guilty, they may even have hurt someone you know. And you think the plan is fool proof. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Most people wouldn't do it, but more people would seriously consider it than Jenkins wants to believe. He'll probably object, and say this theory is about a hypothetical guilty, not innocent person. But all fanatics believe their targets are guilty. Everyone is prone to fanaticism given the right set of circumstances.

Do we want the feds to catch people who are motivated by their fanaticism to do the research and make the connections on their own? Or do we want FEDS to arrest and convict people who, at a low point of their life, considered something really stupid that without the Feds help they would never do?

These stings are SUPPOSED to catch people who would have been a threat ALL BY THEMSELVES. Not because a government tempter was whispering in their ear and holding their hand while they tried to do it. Most people with extreme views aren't dangerous UNLESS they believe they have the means and SUPPORT to act out their crazy. That's why groups promoting anti Semite crap are so dangerous...the haters have SUPPORT and are more likely to act out violently.

Thank you Feds for offering crazy people support in their crazy violent ideas. WELL DONE[/sarcasm]

Re:Fidelity

That clown still posts here?

@- - - 26.Jan.2013 15:50

Dead on

"Do we want the feds to catch people who are motivated by their fanaticism to do the research and make the connections on their own? Or do we want FEDS to arrest and convict people who, at a low point of their life, considered something really stupid that without the Feds help they would never do?"

Yes, so easily simplified! It's a no brainer for only a few, unfortunately.

Also 26.Jan.2013 16:08

a.m.

I just posted as Dead on above - @Fidelity, "
@a.m. - Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Nidal Malik Hasan... "

Yes! Big part of the point! These 4 were not created by the FBI. Can you see no entrapment in Mohamud's case?

@- - - , again; "These stings are SUPPOSED to catch people who would have been a threat ALL BY THEMSELVES. Not because a government tempter was whispering in their ear and holding their hand while they tried to do it. Most people with extreme views aren't dangerous UNLESS they believe they have the means and SUPPORT to act out their crazy. That's why groups promoting anti Semite crap are so dangerous...the haters have SUPPORT and are more likely to act out violently."

The Sheeple don't want to believe this and the feds are loving it.