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Clackamas mall shooter killed himself immediately after facing armed citizen.

One person properly armed, trained and prepared to act can (and in this case almost certainly did) save many lives.
 link to www.kgw.com

One person properly armed, trained and prepared to act can (and in this case almost certainly did) save many lives, often just by confronting an attacker and sometimes without even having to fire a single shot. This person could any one of us who is willing and able to take an active role in being responsible for our own safety and the safety of those we care about. Far better to rely on ourselves and one another instead of more police, more laws and more restrictions on our freedom. The choice is ours, for now...

 http://www.a-human-right.com

...after what happened? 20.Dec.2012 10:28

Patrick

Yeah, great, potential mall shootouts are the answer. How about we all just walk around in body armor and diapers all day because you dress up in camaflauge twice a month and make believe 'fight tyrrany.'

Don't let FACTS get in the way 20.Dec.2012 12:23

@ Patrick

No, Patrick, stopping a potential shooting is the answer by someone not afraid to defend themselves. I don't know if you are drunk, stupid, or both, but your comment is ignorant, elitist and snide. Maybe your diaper needs changing, you sound ill.

ideology v.s. science 20.Dec.2012 12:32

conflicted (patrick)

Author David Hemenway studied the various risks of having a gun in the home, including accidents, suicide, homicide, and intimidation. Additionally, the benefits of having a firearm in a household were also examined and those benefits included deterrence, and thwarting crimes (self-defense). From this in-depth look, it was concluded that homes with guns were not safer or deter more crime than those that do not. In fact, it was found that in homes with children or women, the health risks were even greater. "Whereas most men are murdered away from home," wrote Hemenway. "Most children, older adults, and women are murdered at home. A gun in the home is a particularly strong risk factor for female homicide victimization."

A gun in the house minimally doubles the risk that a household member will kill himself or herself. (Some studies put the increase in suicide risk as high as 10 times.) An American is 50% more likely to be shot dead by his or her own hand than to be shot dead by a criminal assailant. More than 30,000 Americans injure themselves with guns every year.

And here's Science Daily:
In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.'

Studies... 20.Dec.2012 14:57

Fidelity

1) I came across a study that said all alcoholism was called by people drinking booze.

2) Then, another study that said all drunken driving was the result of booze.

3) Then, yet another study that found over half of all suicides involved people drinking booze.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT ALL OF THIS MEANS?

That it is totally inappropriate to put restrictions on people who practice their freedoms safely simply because some people do not.

Does anyone really think we should ban booze in order to save the tens of thousands of deaths caused by drunk driving, suicide, and alcoholism?

Actually Patrick, the reality is that... 20.Dec.2012 16:30

Just Me

Hundreds and possibly thousands of people in the Portland area alone (plus hundreds OF thousands more across the country and world) *already* carry firearms: Every Single Day. This is nothing new and chances are that people each of us know and love are doing so. These people overwhelmingly do so responsibly and discreetly so it's almost never noticed - until the guns are needed. Even when people use their guns defensively, we often don't hear about it much or at all. Just like in this case where the simple presence of someone who was prepared to actively defend themselves almost certainly stopped the attacker from killing many more people.

Guns and Switzerland 20.Dec.2012 20:08

Dude

We should be Like the Swiss

Every one is evaluated and has a national responsibility to be able to handle a machine gun!

What you say?

Sweet baby Jesus. Around a 1000 years of Security without war too.

Poor Micheal Servetus...but that is another story and I digress too.

So now, What?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

If you have a well regulated militia, you don't need a standing army, professional killers for hire, morally bankrupt institutions, and citizens that children rebel from and adults tolerate for a meal ticket.
Corporate or People Crossing?
Corporate or People Crossing?

@fidelity&just me 21.Dec.2012 00:45

Patrick

Oh I know. But children shouldn't be exposed.to guns until their adults. And if there's a mentally I'll child in the house...

Columbine happened during the Assault weapons ban. My problem are socially there are no taboos on guns, and as a result of incompitent anglo american parenting 28 children are dead. That right of passage taking little Jimmy Bob out into the wods and killing something, yeah that's the western version of honor killing. Its creepy and archaic.

And comparing guns to alcohol is dumb. Comaring guns to another weapon....say a nuclear weapon, a little more accurate. Do you believe in your right to carry plutonium?

I believe in the right to carry weapons...but its an ideological thing and in practice people are dumb and kids....are really dumb.

m.d. 21.Dec.2012 00:51

Patrick

Blame tbe doctors too. Most m.d.'s are only aware of gun owners through medical journals. The second she started seeking psychiatric treatment for that boy they should have asked "do you keep a loaded firearm in the house?"

this is just silly 21.Dec.2012 03:16

...

The guy had some agenda and problems into which there's little insight (unless we might find some in reflection upon ourselves) and obviously wanted to die, don't you think?

@....... 21.Dec.2012 03:46

Patrick

No, he was mentally I'll, there's evidence the mother was seeking psychiatric help, and he shouldn't have had access to firearms. Its difficult as a parent to admit something like that, but again, look at the numbers. Suicide alone is a good enough reason why the crazy little fuck shouldnt have had access. These should be taught in every school.

But yeah, agenda? His agenda was appearantly assassinating the takers of his volunteer kinderrcare mothers affection. He was whacked. Look at the pictures of him, do you ever see any emotion? But, and no disrespect, but she was irresponsible. In the end fatally so.

No taboos on guns=a lot of dead children.

....... 21.Dec.2012 03:59

Patrick(sick of this name)

With how volotile I was as a child, if there were a gun around....or my friends who were all on probation some of them before 15 some of them for violent offenses....yeah, this is about gun culture, and its archaic and should be free but shoult be deamonized in some way. And no, chikdren should not be allowed near firearms.


Mother arms child child shoots mother in the face......good enough for me

....... 21.Dec.2012 04:15

Pat

I'm sorry to sound culturally incensitive, I have friends who carry firearms. I support the right to defend yourself, but please, kids are raging balls of angst, arming a child would to me be requisite for the equivelant of state intervention. Kids and guns don't mix. And crazy and guns definitely don't mix.

Wow, what the fuck. 21.Dec.2012 09:33

Fidelity

@Patrick, I'm assuming you've never been around firearms, and that's why you're making such moronic statements.

What the hell do you mean that children should not be around firearms? Children learn to shoot all over the world without consequence.

But, like adults, children have the same compelling reason to own firearms: self-defense

 http://www.kten.com/story/19848350/12-year-old-shoots-home-intruder

In this story, a convicted child kidnapper broke into a home where a 12 year old girl was alone. What do you think his plans were with this girl?

Well, the girl got the family gun, hid in the closet, and then shot the intruder while on the phone with 911.

But, hey, in your opinion, this girl should not have been allowed any defensive tools - this is your opinion, because you're a moron, and you're looking at firearms as only a dangerous weapon, not as a valuable defensive tool that allows a 12 year old girl to stop a 20 year old man.

Don't enable child rape, Patrick.

a moron? 21.Dec.2012 11:50

Patrick

One story compared to how many about child violence? The numbers don't add up. Call me a moron but this is so rare its almost non existent.

In a utopian society id feel diferently, but in this world with what children have to go through....

Let's just put it this way....if someone hurt my family, say inspired by a bizarre and demented byproduct of schizophrenia and hate, Id learn how to use a gun, hunt them down, and murder everything they held dear. This is me at 30, imagine a 13 year olds thinking.

Huh? 21.Dec.2012 14:20

Kevin

The original post says that this dude at the mall saved lives. He did NOT. By his own account, the guy did not shoot & in fact hid & in fact said that the shooter's gun jammed, & THAT is what saved lives. Maybe if the gun had not jammed, this guy would have shot the shooter. Maybe. But that is NOT what went down. So don't repaint pictures to prove your point.

@kevin 23.Dec.2012 16:57

fidelity

If the shooter's gun was disabled, then how did the shooter SHOOT HIMSELF?

Obviously he unjammed his firearm (or had a second firearm) and rather than continue his shooting, he killed himself.

In the Sandy Hook shooting, the shooter offed himself too.

Why? What event caused him to stop shooting and finding new victims?

The answer I understand is interesting: these mass murders do what they do because they seek power, and the shooting the axiom of their intoxicating power - when someone comes along and challenges their power, it ruins their power trip, and their life is over. Similarly, the school shooter killed himself as the police arrived on the scene: he knew his power trip had come to an end, and he wanted to end it on a high note before everything went to shit.

So, I think Nick Meli saved lives that day.