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NRA & Masssacres

National Rifle Association has direct link to long list of massacres in USA.
NRA has opposed every reasonable effort to control guns in this country. They've opposed bans on assault weapons, opposed bans on armor-piercing bullets, opposed background checks, opposed waiting periods, opposed controls on gun shows, opposed gun-free zones, & on & nauseatingly on.

NRA is the greatest terrorist group in this country, & now 18 small children & 8 adults have been added to the death toll. Fuck the NRA. We must bring reason & intelligence & truth to this struggle.

NRA 800-672-3888, push 6 for menu & Lapierrewayne for the executive, or 7 for operator.

NRA ILA 800-392-8683, push 3 to record, or 4 for staff.

Blood totally covers NRA, & we must stop them. The world thinks we're nuts, & we collectively are, but we can cure ourselves. Fuck the NRA.

Presumably A Reaction To This Morning's Newtown Massacre of 30, Mostly Children 14.Dec.2012 13:28

blues

Its is a fact that the NRA is mostly comprised of constipervatives who have been brainwashed by fundie preachers, Freemasons, and various other sources of bad inspiration. But it's looking more and more like the powers that be really do want to round most of us up and toss us into labor camps. But first they would want to relieve the peasants of their guns. Progressives see this coming as well as constipervatives do.

So all of a sudden we have this series of bullet-ridden outrages. The mind controlled, scopolamine drenched drones are depicted in cameo, while their handlers quickly fade away into the fog of journalism. And the many details that would normally be released soon after a big murder are withheld, as if some top-secret operation had occurred. And just maybe one did.

By the way, Newtown, CT is almost my hometown, and probably most of my family lives there, or very near there. That town is a very wealthy place indeed. Approximately 20 young children and 10 adults were killed, I have read. The apparently 20 year old shooter is said to have killed a family member down in New Jersey, and then traveled about 80 miles north to Newtown. It's all very depressing.

Work for real solutions 14.Dec.2012 13:33

Just Me

Today's tragedy in CT is heart-wrenching. All of the things you mentioned the NRA opposing could have been enacted and the chances are that they would NOT have stopped this. Other tragic attacks have occurred in places with far more restrictions on firearms than we have in most of the US. The simple reality is that this person and people like him obviously violate all sorts of laws and basic standards of human decency.

The vast majority of gun-owners are responsible, safe and caring people who are just as horrified by this and similar events as you are. Restricting our rights to own, use, transport and carry use firearms for personal defense, etc doesn't make anyone safer.

Looking at this from another direction: If just one person there was properly armed, trained and willing to act - they could have done what more laws and more police would almost certainly still have failed to do and saved the lives of many...

i agree "F*** the NRA" but 14.Dec.2012 13:38

what

on Earth specifically did the NRA have to do with:

- a psycho 20-year-old who hated his mom, and (just today) with the help of his 24-year-old brother decided to massacre her and her kindergarten class?

- a psycho (and possible "manchurian candidate" psychotropic experiment??) dude who painted his hair orange, rigged his own apartment to blow sky high, and premeditated to open fire on a full movie theater?

- a (psychologically-and-otherwise) troubled 20-something who _stole_ his acquaintance's rifle, and stuffed it in a guitar case and headed down to Clackamas Town Center with it?

As soon as you can please explain the direct connection between the NRA (with its oft-misguided policies and arms-industry shilling), and the above cases, I'm willing to listen.

To destroy evil in people youd have to destroy all people 14.Dec.2012 14:11

Jeru

It's the fucked up world we've allowed to be crated. We all are responsible for creating it, even those who do nothing. I don't like the NRA because they're Republican group supporting left/right political domination. The more you try to clean up the world, sanitary and safe, the more concentrated our less-then-pretty nature's erupt through the cracks. The world's a dangerous place if we admit it or not and its better to admit it. If you want to be safer yourself get a gun and learn how to use it. Fuck the NRA and fuck people's false sense of security and sense of entitlement to a safe easy life, but don't take it out on guns.

Proliferation 14.Dec.2012 14:42

Den Mark

I cannot help people who do not see obvious connection between irrational extremist NRA & violence in this country, by guns & other means. Somebody will always pop up & say that laws could not have prevented such-&-such a crime. Every situation, such as in Newtown, Clackamas, Milwaukee, Aurora, et alia, every situation has context. People should discuss gun control with context in mind.

I add, tho, that NRA is not the only causative factor in this national illness of violence.

Violence as "entertainment" has always amazed me. Disgusting movies, tv, & video games are factors in the context i refer to. Violence of economic injustice in this rich-yet-poor USofA is a major factor, where people just don't matter. Add disconnect of citizens to daily news depictions of extreme violence "somewhere else", often at behest of their (id est, this) elected government. Put all that & more into a pot & simmer, & you have massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary & many other places.

Another topic, of course, is what we do to make people mentally imbalanced, & how we fail to treat them afterward. Look at Portland's record of cop abuse of mentally ill people.

NRA is both cause of, & effect of, this sick country. I focus on NRA particularly, because they hold enormous power in electing nutcases to Congress & elsewhere. NRA is not just a little club for legit sportsmen, as well as crazies. It's a large & psychotic organization. (Everybody needs an assault rifle?!) It's way past time to take their power away.

Fuck NRA.

Israel NRA Connection 14.Dec.2012 14:53

Dennis

Compulsory Army service in Israel just exacerbates the problem with guns. Israel is a gun culture and have been using guns to commit genocide on Gaza for years. Some members of the Knesset are pro gun advocates and encourage gun ownership.

...... 14.Dec.2012 16:01

........

Dennis, there is no violent non state sanctioned gun violence in Israel. What the fuck are you talking about?

NPR & MJ 14.Dec.2012 18:26

Den Mark, Vancouver WA

NPR this evening interviewed author of recent Mother Jones study of 61 "mass killings" (four or more fatalities in a public place), which found that 80% of the killers obtained their weapons legally. This obviously means that "legally" must be seriously examined. NRA will howl & whine & moan & yell & squeak. We must do it anyway, & tell NRA to shut the fuck up.

Of course, the Clackamas horror wouldn't count in MJ's study, because "only" two died, because the killer's gun jammed.

Total carnage from violence, regardless of number of fatalities & whether in public or private places, would likely shock the hell out of this smug society. Or maybe not. Because it's "over there", not in their own cul-de-sacs.

RE: "Clackamas horror wouldn't count in MJ's study" 14.Dec.2012 20:33

because

he stole the rifle from someone he knew.

(i.e. it was legally "obtained" by its rightful-legal owner, but the perpetrator of the horror certainly and rather casually/conveniently found a way around that one)


RE: "Total carnage from violence,"

doesn't have anything to do particularly with firearms.

(as in for example : killing a bunch of kids at an elementary school is HYPOTHETICALLY as simple as putting oneself behind the wheel of a 2-ton automobile and mowing them down en masse as they're delivered/picked up before or after school.)

Not to mention, in any case an individual has to be severely mentally ill not only to conceive of but moreover carry out such atrocities.

(and further not to mention -- as whoops already has been on this topic -- the 'relative' quantity/type of "daily horrors" experienced by the typical citizen of the USA vs typical citizen of ______________ country)

RE: those firearms in Connecticut 14.Dec.2012 21:45

were

legally owned / purchased by the mother (who lost her life today, courtesy of her mentally-disturbed son).

So again:

No matter how many legal hoops the mother went through to obtain _her_ firearms,

(unless of course firearms were **totally banned** by law - in which case she wouldn't have owned any to begin with, and therefore within her own household at least, her mentally-disturbed son wouldn't have had such convenient access to them)

it apparently wasn't / wouldn't have been enough to keep them out of the hands of her (mentally-disturbed) 20-year-old son ... or -- in this supremely tragic instance -- save her own life.

Make-enact as many firearms-restrictive laws / regulations you want. See how far it gets you (us).

fucksake 14.Dec.2012 23:51

@den mark

You say "I cannot help people who do not see obvious connection between irrational extremist NRA & violence in this country, by guns & other means." in response to a question.

This is what makes Indymedia coversation useless, somepeople who retort with "I won't dignify that with an answer" or "If you don't reach the same conclusions I do than you don't care about the issue enough." What kind of bullshit answers are these? If your going to post at least be open to discussion. if you say something you believe in answer the fucking questions about it. I don't like the NRA but they do make huge efforts to educate about guns, and a lot of the focus is on safety.

And yes, everyone should have a assault rifle so Big Brother isn't the only armed force. Any activist believing in an issues enough to fight has to back it up with more than just a banner or a puppet show. You're afraid of guns because you don't know guns just like the media never knows what they're talking about when reporting about gun violence. Common jams or malfunctions with AR15 is easy cleared as with most modern firearms.

Finally, think about asking for more laws. Your just giving the government more power. And the one's who are enforcing more and more laws are as bad as these civilian shooters. This guy today in CT is the perfect recruit for the ATF, going into a safe place and killing children. He even shot himself, although the ATF usually shoots themselves by mistake.

Guns in civilians hands is not the porblem. Guns and laws to enforce in government agencies hands is the problem.

Are you really that stupid, Den 15.Dec.2012 06:59

Bob

National Rifle Association has direct link to long list of massacres in USA.

How about listing some of those links, Den, instead of spewing lies.

List one of these mass killers who was a member of the NRA.

The kids in CT were killed in a gun free zone with stolen weapons, you stupid jerk.

The only way to stop a person with a gun is by another person with a gun, absolute fact.

Stupid jerks like Den want to disarm the law abiding gun owners so they will be easier victims for the next mass killer because he disagrees with them politically. Typical fascist asshole.

Get your fucking head out of your smelly ass, moron, the problem is not guns, it's the people who kill with them. Using your logic, cars should be banned because people use them to run over other people, knives need to be banned because they can be used to stab and kill & on and nauseatingly on. Blaming the tool and not the user is the mindset of the terminally stupid.

2nd largest mass shooting? 15.Dec.2012 10:14

Jody Paulson

They keep saying the shooting in Newtown is the 2nd largest mass murder in US history, with Virginia tech being the first. They conveniently ignore the massacre of over 150 unarmed men, women and children at Wounded Knee, executed by the state.

CJ point 15.Dec.2012 10:54

357

 http://youtu.be/ivVnVhYxS0Y one minute video out take from the TV show "West Wing" - talking about Gun Control and "gun damage"

culture warrior 15.Dec.2012 11:06

eat me

Though contributing to a culture of fear and fetishized violence, the N.R.A. has zero direct cinnection to most if not any of these shootings. Actually until 2006 most of these killings were being carried out by adolescences. Pint sized sociopaths who probably only knew the N.R.A. if they had heard one of their parents reference them. The fact is, all the contibuting social factors and the "gun debate" (and I hate guns) being crucial, the first serial killer of the modern age ws Jack the Ripper. The first school shooting I could find in the U.S. was some guy who lit a bomb at a school and then opened fire. That was 1928. The N.R.A. as far as I can tell has only been politically active for 30 years. This will of course be debased to a culture war, but your country was founded on the genocide of different native tribes and built on slave labor. You have the only national anthem that mentions rockets and bombs in it. You are so obsessed with making this into a fight a "good v.s. evil" debate you even have a bizarre and anachronistjc reference to Israel, of coudse not taking into consideration the museam shot up in d.c. 4 years ago. The fact is, you have a diseased culture that plays n the week and helpless and turns them unsuspectingly into sociopaths.

Gallup poll results on gun control laws 15.Dec.2012 13:11

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>


Can we talk history here? 15.Dec.2012 15:24

siemprejulia

This is not a 'shooter', he was a man. In almost all school shootings it is men and boys killing girls, boys, women and men.
Even in coutries with hard gun laws, men kill women, children and other men.
The statisitcs are very high.

This is a question of patriarchy, what it teaches men and does to men.
Gun control will help but not end it.

RE: "This is a question of patriarchy" 15.Dec.2012 16:57

can we talk facts

Firearms utilized in this shooting were owned, and provided by, the shooter's (now deceased) mother.

( Matriarchy? )

RE: "teaching" , "patriarchy" 15.Dec.2012 17:19

>

The mother (a schoolteacher, who was registered owner of the guns which her son shooter utilized) used to take her boys out shooting, as a recreational pastime.

(apart from being a schoolteacher) She happened to be a firearm enthusiast and collector (owned at least 4 guns).

Clarity, again: A *****female***** ___taught__ her boys responsible use of firearms, and unfortunately was not quite 100% responsible enough with them in her own household, in order to prevent access to them by her mentally disturbed 20 year old son at the time he chose to carry out these atrocities.

RE: mass media and ('copycat') massacre shooters, watch this brief video:


that video link, again 15.Dec.2012 18:06

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patriarchy 15.Dec.2012 23:13

alex

siemprejulia has a point. the mother may have owned the guns, but her son, as only men do this kind of thing, killed almost 30 women and children with those guns. ids has a point too, but he's exploding a little himself over it. we do need to foster and cultivate the destructive "warrior" side that is more prevalent in men. we should do this when they're young children. this is a quality of human nature, like sexuality, where shaming it away doesn't neutralize it, but makes it rear up in fucked up ways. you have to accept what is reality even when it's not pretty.

we don't know who this guy was, but the loose sketches available make him seem pretty fucked up, so we can't take him to represent much more than himself in this situation. even still, were his honest feelings of rage validated rather than squelched as they so often are, he might have had a healthier venue of expression. who isn't fascinated by guns, even if that fascination is fear? you can't stomp sexuality out of children by punishing them for exploring themselves, masturbating or whatever else, just as you can't remove a destructive reality of a person's nature. what we can do is recognize it and help people to control themselves.

biologically, the most efficient method of propagation is asexual reproduction. the male isn't needed unless the world's a dangerous place requiring the diversification of genetic material in hopes that the scrambled combinations will outmatch the disease or whatever threat that created males. we live in a dangerous, imperfect world, so we have men. perhaps men know this and maintain a certain level of danger to justify their existence. just an idea. but in this dangerous, imperfect world, as long as there are men, there will be guns. so unless we figure out how to survive without men in the world the search for real solutions need to move past gun bans and more fucking laws in general.