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vegitairian carnivores

Here is a link to a paper showing predatory meat eating deer and cows
 http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2010/12/carnivory_in_cows_and_deer.php

In the video of the deer eating the baby birds you can see the parent birds dive bombing the deer desperately trying to save their babies as the deer eats them one by one.

And who thought a cow would every kill and eat chickens?

Squirrels 05.Apr.2012 14:38

Kevin

I once chaperoned a student tour to an outdoor event, & the shocked kids witnessed a squirrel scampering away with a baby bird in its mouth, as the parent birds tried to intervene, unsuccessfully. Apparently the squirrel had grown tired of acorns.

Nature VS. Man 05.Apr.2012 14:55

CAPPIE

Nature can be cruel. Man can be even crueler.

Natural? 05.Apr.2012 16:06

--

You folks so don't get it. It doesn't matter is animals eat other animals. What you have shown is that most animals eat what is necessary. We are omnivores. We have a choice. So all the suffering of the meat industry is voluntary on the part of meat-eaters. We don't need factory farms--we certainly don't need meat with any frequency.

Not everything natural is good. Yes, I want to live closer to nature. Yes, I want to preserve the biosphere. But rape is natural. Murder is natural. That doesn't mean I want them in my society.

-- 05.Apr.2012 18:42

kili

"You want to preserve your biosphere"? Don't you mean that without your biosphere there is no you or us.

Modern agriculture is THE most damaging thing on the planet. And, it is very unlikely you can maintain a vegetarian/vegan diet without it. WHY do you support the destruction of the earth? (that is actually meant ironically, I know you don't support it intentionally)

false premiss 05.Apr.2012 18:49

kili

Sorry, I missed one of your false premisses.

It is NOT a choice, many of the things your body needs can only been obtained from animal flesh: chloresterol, saturated fats, many of the essential vitamins (A,D, some Bs) and tryptophan (precursor of serotonin).

And besides if everyone was vegan/vegetarian, who would have the energy to actually do the hard work of farming (another joke, I have noticed people who are very serious about vegan/vegetarian seem lose their sense of humor)

sorry, but 05.Apr.2012 19:50

not you again with your misinformation

tryptophan can be obtained from veg foods. Look it up, fool, it's all over the net. I know which anti-veg book you've been reading.

A? 05.Apr.2012 20:02

Den Mark

Vitamin A is found in many vegetables. Best way to obtain A is to consume plant-sourced beta carotene, a provitamin, & let your body convert it to A, in the amount needed, since it is easy to overdose on supplemental A. You do NOT need "animal flesh" to obtain A.

here we go again 05.Apr.2012 23:21

##

"Modern agriculture is THE most damaging thing on the planet. And, it is very unlikely you can maintain a vegetarian/vegan diet without it. WHY do you support the destruction of the earth? (that is actually meant ironically, I know you don't support it intentionally)"

Meat, dairy, and egg production requires more agriculture and contributes to more ecological destruction then a vegan diet would require. If your concerned about the adverse affects of modern agriculture then animal husbandry is not the solution. Furthermore to advocate the consumption of the flesh and bodily secretions of non-human animals, in todays modern industrialized society, is to condemn billions of animals to lives of misery and torture in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

You are correct, kind of... 06.Apr.2012 07:35

kili

So once again, I have never advocated animal husbandry, and as I have said I do not condone the torture of animals I am advocating eating meat. I will say this once again, there 60-100 bison roaming the plains of North America before agriculture, they existed with healthy prairies and watersheds.


Studies performed at the Agriculture Research Service (the chief research agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture) and published in Agricultural Research, March 2001, show that beta-carotene absorption and conversion to vitamin A is not very good in some people. About half of 45 volunteers didn't absorb much beta-carotene at all. About half of the volunteers didn't form much vitamin A from the beta-carotene that they did absorb. This variation may be due to genetics.
 http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09315.html



Foods with the highest levels of tryptophan (see the post about soy), ask yourself how many of the non-meat options are available in your area?
1

Sea lion, stellar, kidney (Alaska Native) Tryptophan: 2580mg


2

Sea lion, stellar, meat with fat (Alaska Native) Tryptophan: 1322mg


3

Game meat, elk, cooked, roasted Tryptophan: 746mg


4

Game meat, elk, raw Tryptophan: 746mg


5

Seaweed, spirulina, raw Tryptophan: 739mg


6

Soy protein isolate, potassium type, crude protein basis Tryptophan: 695mg


7

Spinach, frozen, chopped or leaf, unprepared Tryptophan: 690mg


8

Soy protein isolate, potassium type Tryptophan: 685mg


9

Egg, white, dried, powder, glucose reduced Tryptophan: 673mg


10

Egg, white, dried, flakes, glucose reduced Tryptophan: 673mg


11

Soy protein isolate Tryptophan: 660mg

12

Seeds, sesame flour, low-fat Tryptophan: 659mg


13

Seaweed, spirulina, dried Tryptophan: 641mg


14

Crustaceans, crab, alaska king, raw Tryptophan: 607mg


15

Soy sauce made from soy (tamari) Tryptophan: 603mg


16

Spinach, frozen, chopped or leaf, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt Tryptophan: 594mg


17

Spinach, frozen, chopped or leaf, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt Tryptophan: 594mg


18

Fish, halibut, cooked, with skin (Alaska Native) Tryptophan: 593mg


19

Crustaceans, shrimp, mixed species, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 588mg


20

Sea lion, stellar, liver (Alaska Native) Tryptophan: 584mg


21

Crustaceans, lobster, northern, raw Tryptophan: 582mg


22

Crustaceans, lobster, northern, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 582mg


23

Soy protein isolate, PROTEIN TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL, ProPlus Tryptophan: 579mg


24

Crustaceans, crab, blue, canned Tryptophan: 578mg


25

Crustaceans, crab, blue, raw Tryptophan: 577mg


26

Crustaceans, crayfish, mixed species, wild, raw Tryptophan: 577mg


27

Fish, halibut, raw, with skin (Alaska Native) Tryptophan: 576mg


28

Quail, breast, meat only, raw Tryptophan: 576mg


29

Crustaceans, crayfish, mixed species, farmed, raw Tryptophan: 575mg


30

Crustaceans, crab, queen, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 574mg


31

Crustaceans, crab, queen, raw Tryptophan: 573mg


32

Pork, fresh, variety meats and by-products, pancreas, cooked, braised Tryptophan: 571mg


33

Crustaceans, crayfish, mixed species, wild, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 571mg


34

Soy protein isolate, PROTEIN TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL, SUPRO Tryptophan: 567mg


35

Crustaceans, crab, dungeness, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 566mg


36

Game meat, goat, cooked, roasted Tryptophan: 564mg


37

Crustaceans, crab, dungeness, raw Tryptophan: 563mg


38

Goat, raw Tryptophan: 561mg


39

Crustaceans, crayfish, mixed species, farmed, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 561mg

40

Crustaceans, crab, alaska king, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 555mg

41

Crustaceans, crab, blue, cooked, moist heat Tryptophan: 551mg

42

Game meat, caribou, cooked, roasted Tryptophan: 549mg


43

Game meat, caribou, raw Tryptophan: 548mg

44

Watercress, raw Tryptophan: 545mg

45

Duck, young duckling, domesticated, White Pekin, breast, meat only, boneless, cooked without skin, broiled Tryptophan: 543mg

46

Crustaceans, shrimp, mixed species, raw Tryptophan: 534mg

47

Egg, white, dried Tryptophan: 523mg

48

Egg, white, raw, fresh Tryptophan: 521mg

49

Fish, Salmon, Chum, raw (Alaska Native) Tryptophan: 516mg

50

Egg, white, raw, frozen

Peace and Non Violence Begins at Breakfast 06.Apr.2012 10:02

little piggy

Kali i am calling you out as a troll and a shill for the meat industry because you keep coming back to this form to babble on about how you eat meat and think it is good for the planet. Do you work for tyson or cargil because your argument is lacking legs and your ignorance of nutritional health is showing through your carcass eating hide.

I will revert back to vegan-ism 101 --o where do we get our protein - look it up--
there are plenty of ways to get all the vitamins a body needs on a plant based diet--one does not need to ingest carcass to be healthy that is a fucking joke of an argument. considering you said it yourself it is animal agriculture the number one degradation of the planet and our bodies science has reported. All one has to do is a little research and you can stay healthy and out of doctors office by eating well and not ingesting carcass.
In reply to your comment on vegans being weak--well this argument is a joke as well because most of the long distant runners and athletes are vegan because of the strength and endurance this healthy diet provides them. So read it and weep kali and when you are ready to run with the big dogs give up the carcass until than stay home with the puppies on the porch...
 http://www.mfablog.org/2011/12/vegan-athlete-crowned-worlds-toughest-woman.html

 http://www.theveggietable.com/articles/protein.html
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Q1a6BHui0


militant vegans fuck off 06.Apr.2012 14:53

.x

what you choose to eat or not to eat is not saving the planet whatsoever, so stop acting so important.
Also, I don't give a fuck what you eat, that is an intimate thing that I have no business talking shit on. I would appreciate the same basic respect.

(liberal dude saying, "how can you talk about respect when you said fuck off?", save it. Militant vegans would benefit
from trying real hard to not derail real conversations by jumping on unimportant shit.)

I dunno, .x, it looks like a 06.Apr.2012 17:06

hmm

"militant carnivore" started this discussion and attack (see top post), so y'all flesh eaters might want to look in the mirror first.

Okay... 06.Apr.2012 23:59

Rachel

If you look at kili's other posts round here you'll see he's a silly joke. My friends, don't be caught in the trap of arguing the woefully ignorant. I once questioned a man about a swastika sewn into his hoodie. He revealed an ugly scar in his skin where "Karen" had been carved, right underneath the swastika. He said, "I'm a fan of Karen Carpenter, see? That doesn't make me bulimic. So it doesn't mean I'm really a Nazi because I wear a swastika." What do you say to a thing like that? How do you argue with such a person? You don't because you can't. Kili is the same thing, so please let's ignore him until he has something real to say.

interersting 07.Apr.2012 08:11

kili

Well, you are wrong. I am not a troll, and I am not woefully ignorant, nor did I have a vegan reject my sexual advances. Although the personal attacks tell more about you than they do about me.

I am a botanist and I teach botany and zoology at a community college. I am also a former vegetarian (4 years).

The tone of your comments about what I say and the personal attacks that I have received, have a very interest similarity.

I get the same treatment from fundamentalist christians when I try to talk to them about evolution!

They attacked me, they denied what I said, or they just dismissed it as absurd. If you look at the three different topics I have been posting on, this is the pattern you will see (if you keep looking, you will see I also posted the pdf about the true cost of grazing). I guess I had hoped that the people of PDX and on this board were willing to have a discussion about a tough subject, but I was wrong. You disappoint me.