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Myriad Reasons To Avoid The Toxins Of Putrefying Animal And Fish Flesh

Today March 20th for many years has been Meatout Day, when millions are urged
to kick the meat habit.

There are ethical, health, environmental, food yield,
energy, aesthetic, economic and spiritual reasons to avoid animal flesh.
Whether you reduce or eliminate the consumption of meat, fish, dairy products..
Here are some reasons to take the first step
. Trillions of animals suffer hideously in factory farms, transit and slaughterhouses. Fishes die of suffocation, asphyxiation.
2. Help the Environment
. prevent deforestation
. reduce global heating
. prevent drought
. stop floods
3. Prevent Disease  http://www.pcrm.org
. vegan men have higher sperm counts
while nonvegetarians have much
. heart disease
. cerebral stroke
. cancer of many kinds
. ecoli or colon bacteria infections
. insecticide concentrations at the top of the food chain
. food poisoning .. corpses should be buried not consumed
. kidney dysfunction ... carnivores have 5 times our kidney size per pound
. arthritis the uric acid or preurine (trioxypurine) in animals' muscles when they are murdered
crystallizes in needle formation around the joints
. choking high up on the list of accidental deaths (comparable to swallowing shoe leather?)
. appendicitis (our fruitarian ancestors gave us the longest intestinal tract in relation to height of
any animal)
. bleeding ulcers (carnivores secrete much more hydrochloric acid than human beings)
. parasites: liver flukes, trichinella and other worms
4. Create Most Food Yield Per Acre.. Preventing Hunger
Cow corpses yield 100 lbs of animal flesh per acre in desertified W Texas... a maximum 1000 lbs.
per acre in more rain-blessed areas. Dairy products and vegetables yield more per acre.
Centenarian fruit and nut trees can drop as high as 2 tons each of food or 450,000 pounds an
acre in some cases.
[B]5. Prevent Crime
. the adrenalin secreted by terrorized animals is only partially broken up by
cooking and causes anger in those who eat the flesh
[B]6. Stop Accidents
. slaughterhouse workers slip on the grease, fecal matter, urine, blood in abbatoirs
. slaughterhouse workers are kicked in the head and elsewhere as they electroshock, kick
drag and otherwise force animals into the slaughterhouse chutes
. slaughterhouse workers are exposed to cold
For more:
7. Foster Esthetics
. Compare the fragrance of almond blossoms to the stench of the killing fields and the
piercing shrieks of the abbatoir to the wind's symphony in olive groves. Compare a bowl
of shelled nuts after 3 days to a flesh sandwich sitting on the kitchen table.
8. Restore Mental Health
. Russian research found that vegetarian diet eliminated the adrenalin saturated flesh which
is a factor in depression, anger, anxiety
9. Stop Fires
. Animal fat (grease, lard, tallow) accumulating on restaurant and home walls causes fires.
. Malfunctioning ovens cause fires
. Gas and electric lines into stoves cause fires.
. [URL]  http://www.engine2diet.com[/URL] a whole firehouse goes vegan
10. Save Money[/B]
. Cadaver eating is expensive.. sometimes many times more per pound than fruits and vegetables
. Cooking and freezing are costly
. Around the world flesh-related diseases are hemorrhaging $$ from national health care.
11. Prevent Obesity
. The average vegan weighs 23 pounds less than the average nonvegetarian and 11 pounds less than the average dairy vegetarian.. That was the discovery of Mervyn Hardinge MD in isocaloric studies at an ivy league
There are over 100 studies indicating weight loss with vegan and vegetarian diet. Lance Armstrong
recommends meatless diet for weight loss and healing.
Cows' milk is intended for their baby calves and is designed to make a 1000 lb. animal in a few months.
It engenders obesity in American children. Dr Atkins of the Atkins Diet (whose foundation is connected
to Smithfield pig factory farms and Duke of North Carolina) died of a cerebral stroke which generated a fall while weighing 257 lbs.
12. Save Time
. Vegetarian, vegan and fruitarian meals take much less preparation time
. Vegetarian plates take less cleaning time
. Kitchen wall cleaning takes less time
13. Save Water
. "Probably the most reliable and widely-accepted water estimate to produce a pound of cow flesh is the figure of 2,500 gallons/pound. Newsweek once put it another way: "the water that goes into a 1,000 pound steer would float a destroyer." [URL]  http://www.vegsource.com[/URL] No one
begrudges patient cows water on their painful journey to
a grizzly end, but the ratio illustrates the entire waste of
cattle concentration camps.
14. Spiritual traditions and teachings
 http://www.christianveg.com Christian
 http://www.bmf.org Muslim
 http://www.hindu.org Hindu
 http://www.plumvillage.org Buddhist
 http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz[Jain, Sikh, Sufi, Rastafarian, Wesleyites, Salvation Army followers of General Booth, Franciscans, 7th Day Adventists,
Cistercians, early Christians following Jesus' example... all have vegetarian traditions
15. Break Addiction's Chains Both Physical and Mental
. The uric acid or trioxypurine in flesh is stronger than caffein (dioxypurine). Not everything we absorbed in childhood was good.
16. Foster International Peace
. As Mexican undocumented workers refuse slaughterhouse jobs, they are going to
Central Americans. Slaughterhouses are an intrinsic part of the immigration problem.
. Canadians, Norwegians, Icelanders, S African governments club seals because they eat fishes.
. Japanese 'scientists' harpoon whales not only for their flesh but because they eat fish.
[B]17. Save Energy
. meat takes over 81 times the production energy that nut protein takes.. . no till agriculture saves energy and animal lives
. energy in the freezer at slaughterhouse, warehouse, transportation truck, home
. energy in the stove
. energy and cost of veterinarians, toxic hormone injections etc.
. compare dropping a peach seed on the forest fringe and covering it with a little dirt.. coming
back in 4 years to fruit which drops in your lap... to the great effort of killing animals
18. Live Longer
. Several life insurance companies give discounts to vegetarians. The January 1973 National
Geographic mentioned that centenarian tribes are vegetarian (Villcabamba of Ecuador, Azerbaijans, Hunzas, yogis are some examples)

Thank you to Allison Aubrey of NPR for her coverage of the
Meatless Monday campaign, the first step to a total Meatout.


 http://www.meatout.org[/URL] Lance Armstrong has asked people to start with
a neatless Monday. 81,000 Baltimore school children are having 1 meatless
day a week. Yale, UC Davis, Northern Kentucky University, Johns Hopkins are
adapting their cafeterias.
President McKinley was shot on Sept 6 2001 and was recovering, but gangrene from the bullet's path through nonvegetarian intestines was the final cause of death. When George Wallace, American candidate for president shot by a hit man employed
by war profiteers, was hit, he had, said a national news magazine,
just eaten a hamburger, and the bullet trailed an ecoli (colon
bacteria) path through his body.)

homepage: homepage: http://pcrm.org

From the Archives 20.Mar.2012 11:23

Jim Lockhart videoactivepdx@gmail.com

Power Point presentation from February of 2010, by Peter Spendelow of NWVeg, discussing whether or not animals are conscious, if they can feel pain. A fairly wide ranging presentation, commenting on brain structure of animals and humans as well as common and extraordinary powers of both.


Another from the Archive 20.Mar.2012 11:34

Jim Lockhart videoactivepdx@gmail.com

Three presentations on the theme of eating animals from February 2010.

Ramona Ilea, Philosophy, Pacific University speaks a little about the history of the Animal Liberation Movement and ethical concerns with eating animals.

Kathy Hessler, Center for Animal Law Studies, Lewis & Clark College, addresses the eating and treatment of animals from the standpoint of law.

Camas Davis, Portland Meat Collective is seeking to provide more humane alternatives for those who wish to eat meat.


a different prespective 20.Mar.2012 12:09


"a different perspective" = same old problems 20.Mar.2012 19:18


I can agree with you that our system of agriculture for producing plant-matter for human diets has problems. Eating animal flesh, however, does not mitigate any of those problems.

V 21.Mar.2012 11:09


You don't seem to offer any alternatives.

I am gluten intolerant, which eliminates almost all of the mainstream vegetarian and vegan choices, and if our civilization were to collapse vegan isn't even an option and vegetarian is problematic.

And all of the health benefits, I would guess there is a lot of correlation and not much causation in those articles. A vegan person is probably going to take better care of themselves than some one who eats at McDonalds, but is it the diet that's responsible or the behavior, AND most of the people I have met who are vegan tend to be of a social class that can afford good health care.

SO, tell me how I would be vegan or vegetarian and be healthy if I can't eat gluten?


Silence 22.Mar.2012 06:22


The silence I hear is me not getting an answer to my question.

One final thought... the Dalai Lama eats meat. He tried being a vegetarian, but only made it 6 months.

to Kili 22.Mar.2012 07:26


The alternatives to eating animal products or gluten products includes, well, EVERYTHING ELSE!!! Vegetables, grains, legumes, fruits, greens - stuff!

Some resources for healthy vegan dites:

...and lots of other stuff on the internet including recipes and cookbooks.

Your point about the relationship between health and vegan/vegetarian diets is a good one. I wouldn't argue that people should be vegan for their own health - do it for the cows, pigs, and chickens!

If you are going to be a gluten-free vegan, heartfelt good luck to you. I am sure that you will find other vegans that will be more than happy to help you on your way!

V 22.Mar.2012 09:11


How many of those options are local? How much petroleum will it take to get them to my mouth? How will this reduce the suffering of the animals? How will it reduce the deforestation of the Amazon?

My point is that it isn't as simple as being vegetarian. Thats not going to save the world. Animals eat animals and plants, some plants eat animals and other plants. How are we different?

As for the factory agriculture. I don't agree with the methods and I believe that all organisms should be treat well (I don't like humane, humans are not a good example of how to treat other organisms), but simply switching to a vegan or vegetariam diet is not going to make the world a better place, in fact if it gives people the idea that they are, then it keeps them from doing something that will actually matter.

I was a vegetarian for 4 years, and now I eat meat again, so what has changed? Am I a better or worse person? Is the world better or worse for that choice? Was there less ill treatment of animals while I was a vegetarian? Is there more now?


V 22.Mar.2012 09:41


Oh, and most of the "Fishes die of suffocation, asphyxiation" is from agriculture (plant) pollution. Wow...does that mean vegan and vegetarians are responsible for the suffering of animals too?

Vegetarians: those who only prey on the truly defenseless (as noted earlier, they feel pain to).

Consumer Choices mean Everything 22.Mar.2012 10:01


If you do not buy it they will not need to supply it simple--consumer choices drive demand if there is NO demand than there needs to be NO carcass on the shelves. Your words are dis- empowering because the choice people make about what they put on their fork greatly matters to the animals, to the planet and to your health.
i will not shrug it off my responsibility as a consumer. By saying that individuals and the choices they make do not matter unless the system changes--well if you stop buying death then there is NO need to sell it.
Humans have twenty something feet of colon if we were truly supposed to eat carcass our intestines would be very short like a dog's -- I feel empowered today being vegan and i know that the choices i make to put on my fork makes a difference in the overall suffering of the animals and the environment and to my health. so i say pooh pooh to anyone who says they do not. And if humans could lick their own bungholes i am sure most people would just like they gobble up pink slime burgers and fetus soda.
And by the way NEVER trust and ex vegan

this planet is drowning in cow ,pig and chicken shit 22.Mar.2012 10:12


I am sorry kili but your argument has holes--the oceans and ground water is being polluted by run off from agriculture that includes pesticides and fertilizers . One cow produces up to 120 pounds a waste a day-- whether he is on a feed lot or in a meadow--there is so much animal shit accumulating from carcass eaters that they are feeding the shit back to the animals, so if you are buying meat -- you are contributing to the shit stream and it is the number ONE polluter of the planet as well as causing dead zones all over our oceans. Kili as much as you want to justify your meat eating as not contributing to the global destruction --you must pull your head out of the sand honey and understand that your personal choices do make a difference for all of us. We are what we eat.
Peace and non-violence begins at breakfast --

kili 22.Mar.2012 11:21


your post is just so silly to me - how can you be a healthy vegan or vegetarian and not eat gluten? Well, gluten is not a source of a ton of nutrients that cannot be gotten from other veg sources, so I'm not sure how this is a health issue for you that you're somehow going to be malnourished if you don't eat gluten. I myself am vegan and mostly gluten free (I don't always check for trace ingredients, but I could easily do it if I had to). It's just not that big of a deal. Just don't eat animal products, and don't eat gluten. Gluten is in no way essential to a healthy veg diet. Neither is soy, in case that's the next red herring you're going to throw up. I rarely eat either gluten or soy.

Also, read this article about food miles. Local is not all it's cracked up to be in terms of the environment - food miles don't feed climate change, meat does:
 link to www.newscientist.com

And why are you worried about what you're going to do if society collapses and basing your choices on that NOW? If society collapses you won't be using a computer either, and you seem fine with using one now.

eating-chicken-may-lead-to-a-smaller-penis/ 22.Mar.2012 13:05


Did I hit a nerve? You seem to be resorting to personal attacks.

You are correct food miles doesn't produce a large amount of greenhouse gasses, that wasn't my point. It is the exploitation of other places and the fact that without civilization, you won't be able to get food from far away.

Here is a question for you how about the pain and suffering of all of the plants you eat? Are you not worried about them?

They are subjected to toxic chemicals, and systematically raped to produce your fruits and then killed while they are still pregnant, all so you can eat an apple, or soybean.

What about broccoli? a whole race of organisms that has been genetically altered so they never reach reproductive maturity and then slaughtered, kind of like veal!

I think I know someone like you, she makes a big deal about being a vegetarian, about how much better she is than someone who eats meat, but it doesn't make one bit of difference in the world, except an new market opportunity.

So go on with your hypocrisy, and tell me how many salmon are still alive because you chose a different life style. Tell me how much cooler the world is, or how many fewer species are going extinct because of "difference" you are making.

I'm not against vegetarian or vegan lifestyles, I just don't want you to fool yourself or anyone else about what you are doing. I was a vegetarian because I don't like killing things, bu that doesn't mean any animals were saved, and I was still killing plants, which I have decided is just as bad, so I have to accept it.

And finally, nobody has bother to comment on the fact the the Ocean of Wisdom (Dalia Lama) eats meat.

so much animal sh&t accumulating from carcass eaters 22.Mar.2012 13:23


All other primates eat meat, even the Gelada Baboon of Ethiopia has been seen eating the flesh of an animal


It is not eating meat that is the problem, it is how we get the meat and that isn't going to change if some people stop doing.

And why do you think so little of the suffering of plants?

kili 22.Mar.2012 13:35


As soon as you talk about plant suffering you've lost the plot. You have huge gaps in your knowledge of biology and reasoning ability. Plants don't have a central nervous system or pain receptors. They don't suffer. But guess what - even if they did, you would be eating far fewer of them (causing far fewer to "suffer") by eating them directly than by having them fed to animals first. So if you actually care about plant suffering (you don't) you'll stop eating animals. And fruits actually evolved to be eaten - they "want" to be eaten - they spread their seeds by getting eaten and pooped out of the eater.

The Dalai Lama isn't my god, so I see no reason to comment on that. Who cares? Joe down the street eats meat too.

* 22.Mar.2012 14:10


To answer your personal attacks, I teach botany and zoology at a community college. It is always amazing how when someone can not refute an argument they resort to personal attacks.

check this out

And, people used to say that animals didn't feel pain, and you know what else, some people used to think Jews, or blacks or indians didn't feel pain like us regular humans. How do you feel being lumped with those kind of people.

Fruits evolved to disperse seeds to a good site for growth, how does you toilet fit with that? And, besides, not all fruit are to be eaten, would you eat a elm samara (this is the winged fruit of an elm tree)?

Would you make a wolf stop eating meat? It would decrease suffering. How about whales, they eat phytoplankton and zooplakton (animal), would you make them stop to decrease suffering? Then answer my last post about primates! Or are we somehow different? Are we special in some way?

Like I said it's not the act, but how it is produced.

* 22.Mar.2012 14:29


I forgot, When you eat an almond you are actually eating the embryo, the fruit includes the hard outer shell, so that is almost exactly like veal. No dispersal there because you just killed it.

Hooray for hypocrites!!!!

yeah, we are special in some way - 22.Mar.2012 14:35


we have a choice not to cause suffering and death to other sentient animals. A wolf or cheetah really doesn't.

Sorry, your "plants feel pain" claim does not stand up to scientific scrutiny. But as has been pointed out, if you really want to reduce suffering to plants, stop feeding them to animals first and then eating the animal - it kills a lot more plants to get food that way.

Since you're just like other animals, you probably eat your young and sniff the butts of strangers you meet. Because you do everything just like other animals, right?

I don't think humans eat elm fruits, so try again. And you're right, the toilet doesn't disperse the seeds, but that doesn't invalidate plant evolution to spread seeds by having their fruit eaten (duh).

I doubt your an instructor, but I would find such an idiot teaching kids to be unfortunate.

* 22.Mar.2012 15:03


I forgot, when you eat an almond you are eating the embryo of the plant. The fruit includes the hard outer coating (pericarp). So, it is just like veal.

Hooray for hypocrisy!

oh dang 22.Mar.2012 15:21


someone who can't tell the difference between an almond and a cow... I highly doubt it makes you more sensitive to plants. What I see is that it makes you less sensitive to animals.

You are pathological in your ability to make excuses and come up with truly weird reasoning.

This is my advice to help other beings on the planet - please do not have children. I'm dead serious. Children deserve better than people who are clueless and insensitive to life. Someone with your mentality should not have control over someone's life. You can call it a personal attack if you choose, but I hope somewhere down inside it will register that you are not fit to parent.

xxx 22.Mar.2012 15:33


Yep, the personal attacks are the way to go when you don't actually have anything to say

It is so nice of you and in keeping with Ahimsa to call me an idiot. Especially when you have never met me or know anything about me. We were just having a discussion where we have different view points and you started with personal attacks.

Here you go, you speciest.
 link to www.ted.com

Tell me again how plants don't feel pain. For someone worried about the suffering of animals you seem very willing to insult people.
You know what maybe vegans don't feel pain, it should be OK to eat them. Wow, that is a slippery slope.

I started this by offering a different perspective, obviously you fell very challenged by this. I firmly held belief doesn't need defended, it is only the insecure belief that you have to defend. I would ask that you consider this, but I doubt you will.
If you need to think that plant don't feel pain to be OK with yourself, well go ahead, but I'm sure there are Nazis who needed to think Jews were subhuman to be OK as well.

Wow I just checked your last post...you are really having a problem with this! I must have been hitting all of you insecurities. With Ahimsa the intention is as important as the act, your intentions seem pretty damn violent. Good luck with that.

But I guess this is my fault. Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

yeah 22.Mar.2012 16:07


comparing vegans to Nazis because they know that plants don't feel pain (and even if in your mythical world they did we would still be causing less of it) makes a lot of sense.

So: how do you defend that eating meat causes more plants to die than eating the plant directly, since you care so much about the suffering of plants?

Baby Cows cry for their Mommies 22.Mar.2012 16:22


their mommies mourn for them as well kili so they are nothing like and almond. Almonds do not cry and pods do not mourn but sentient animals do. In an ideal world i would like to feed my body on light but i haven't quite figured it out, so i have to eat. Now if i have to choose between making an almond cry or baby cow cry i choose the almond simple as that and i think that is what nature intended in my peaceful loving ideal world. And by the way veal is a term coined by the meat industry.

These people bring you disease, misery, pink slime and shit-- and they want to reduce sentient beings and beautiful places to acronyms(a.n.w.a.r.) and in marketing terms like the word veal or meat,slave,slut, whore, and so on--But baby cow has a mom and an almond just a shell. seams self explanatory really and if i buy almonds over babies than i am making a choice that has a ripple effect like everything else i choose to do, or not, do in my life.

I am not subjecting a baby cow life to be my dinner, but if you choose to eat baby cows than that matters too-- because baby cows do not like being your veal or do they have a choice, or an almond a voice, but you and i have a choice, and i choose almonds to be my slaves and die for you and i--but do not kill a baby cows or eat their mothers doused in pink slime and a bun

baby cow scream this is the difference for me. I pick the one that i not hear scream call me nuts but almonds have guts that do not cause me or a baby to wither in pain.

Can plants think? Kind of like asking in vegans can think. 22.Mar.2012 17:00


Can Plants Think?
In a new study, scientists have found a cabbage relative capable of remembering and responding to information
By Rebecca Boyle Posted 07.15.2010 at 10:46 am
 link to www.popsci.com

The Persistence Of Memory A Polish study showed plants send electrochemical signals in a way that can be likened to an animal nervous system. This image shows chemical reactions in leaves that were not exposed to light; they are reacting to a chemical signal from a leaf that was exposed. via BBC

Plants are able to remember information and react to it, thanks to an internal communications system that can be likened to a central nervous system in animals, according to a new study by a Polish plant biologist.

Plants "remember" information about light, and a certain type of cell transmits that information, much like nerves do in animals.

In the study, which was published in the early online version of the journal Plant Cell July 16, the researchers found that light shone on one leaf of an Arabidopsis thaliana plant caused the whole plant to respond. The response lasted even after the light source was taken away, suggesting the plant remembered the light input.

"The signaling continiues after the light is off; it is building short-term memory," said the lead author, Stanislaw Karpinski, in an e-mail message. "The leaves are able to physiologically 'memorize' different excess light episodes and use this stored information, for example, for improving their acclimation and immune defenses."

The leaves remember light quality as well as quantity, Karpinski added -- different wavelengths of light produce a different response, suggesting the plants use the information to generate protective chemical reactions like pathogen defense or food production.

As reported by the BBC July 14, scientists found that light shining on a leaf cell triggered a cascade of events that was immediately signaled to the rest of the plant via a type of cell called a bundle sheath cell. Those cells exist in every part of a plant. Karpinski, of the Warsaw University of Life Sciences in Poland, measured the electrical signals from those cells, and compared it to finding a central nervous system for plants.

Terence Murphy, a plant biology professor at the University of California-Davis who was not involved in the research, said shining light on that first leaf could have any number of effects.

"The leaf would be loaded up with starch, maybe; that's going to have a real effect on how it communicates through the phloem (vascular system) to other leaves. It's not unreasonable that you could illuminate one leaf and affect the other leaves," he said.

The trick is finding out how the other leaves are informed -- and that's what appears to have been done in the Polish study. Bundle sheath cells surround the veins in leaves, stems and roots, so it's reasonable to think they transmit the electrical impulse, Murphy said.

Biologists have long known that plants can remember -- they need to know whether they've gone through a cold season before they can germinate in the spring, for instance. It's not memory as we know it, but a prolonged change in plant internal systems that causes effects later. superior

What's more, scientists already know plants transmit electrical signals in response to a stimulus, just as nerves do. This is easily measured using a basic electrode setup, according to Murphy.

Karpinski said the light memory represents a new way for plants to respond to pathogens or disease -- normally, they respond by direct contact with an invader.

"This information would not be a revelation untill we find that plant leaves can remember it for several days and process this memorized information to (bolster) their defense mechanisms against seasonal diseases," he wrote.

Karpinski is well-known among plant biologists for earlier work on how plants respond to light stress. In a previous study, he also showed chemical signals can be passed throughout whole plants, allowing them to respond to and survive environmental changes. Understanding the mechanisms that cause those signals is a new step, however.

William John Lucas, distinguished professor of plant biology at UC-Davis and chair of the plant biology department, said an internal communication system would provide a wealth of information to different parts of the plant.

"A particular tissue within a plant needs to be able to signal to the rest of the plant in terms of what are its conditions, what should you expect," he said. "If a young leaf is emerging out of a plant, it would be nice for that leaf to know about the conditions in which it is going to emerge."

Lucas studies how plants pick up non-biological information, such as water and light, and how they transmit that information so the entire plant knows under which constraints it will grow. Plants can't move to a sunnier, wetter spot, so they need to make the most of their environment.

Tapping into their "nervous system" would help scientists understand how they do that, Lucas said. That knowledge could lead to optimized food crops or hardier trees.

"There are no neurons in plants, but there is a communication network that we don't fully understand," he said. "There are important implications for these kinds of studies."

kili is right 23.Mar.2012 16:37


Some scientists did a study on a cabbage or something...I guess professor Kili is right - we should kill animals and eat them!

Local? Well, yes, actually, you can get local vegetables. And raising animals to kill and eat is also just as much a part of the "dead end" petroleum economy as plant agriculture, if not more so.

I noticed that you referenced Lierre Keith's book "The Vegetarian Myth." I read it a while back and was not at all impressed. I don't have time to even get started on all the problems with the lines of thought in that book, so I will just point you in the direction of some folks that did put a lot of time into it here:
a website that counters a lot of what Lierre Keith writes:

- maybe I will come back and write more later, but I imagine this flamewar will die down soon.