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imperialism & war

Gaddafi Gotta Go

I'm wondering why people are supporting Muammar Gaddafi?
In response to American intervention in Libya there have been a handful of articles coming out in favor of Muammar Gaddafi. I think these people might either be Libyan nationalists, like the soldiers who raped Iman al-Obeidi, or just wing nuts who are so consumed with bitterness toward their government, justifiably so, that they're over looking the fact that no Arabs who came out in favor of democracy, whether it's been at the United State's expense or in their interest, has come out in favor of Gaddafi. The Libyan people have spoken. The Libyan people who I'm sure are strongly against American Imperialism, would rather choose, in this case at least, the lesser of two evils as opposed to a man who once said that, and I'm paraphrasing, "Aids isn't a problem, smart people don't have to worry about Aids."

I think this might be a communist thing, but Muammar Gaddafi is not a communist. Muammar Gaddafi has actually asked the world to refer to him as he king of Africa. There was an article on here a couple of weeks ago denigrating the use of psychology as a means of social control in regards to how it's been used to manipulate us into wanting Muammar Gaddafi out of power. I just want to say to that person, that we're talking about a guy who is too crazy for that to work, he alludes all psychological labels, he a wing nut, and if you were one of the Libyan "proletarates," you would be vehemently against Muammar Gaddafi.

I'm glad that their are people to question their government at every turn, and see the inherent evil and greed in everything they do. I hope though that in retaliation we're not projecting the image of a martyr onto a "rogue."

sorry... 18.Jun.2011 02:28

sg

I'm sorry, I accidentally forgot to edit the word wingnut which was actually me starting a thought I never finished, and I"m not comparing people who support Gaddafi to rapist militant nationalists. I'm just saying, fuck him.

Some Trolls on Indymedia Support Gaddafi 18.Jun.2011 08:07

Observer

Gaddafi, strongman, murderer, promoter of rape as weapon of war, has some reactionary apologists at Portland Indymedia. I have posted many international reports of Libya that never show up on site. One pro-Gaddafi figure, who signs many of his own posts "blues" always attacked my posts that would make it through. Turns out "blues" has u-tube rants against women and jews, as well as against revolutionary movements against known fascists like Gaddafi.

blues 18.Jun.2011 15:07

Portland Indymedia Is Allowing Slander Against Me. Tell It!

Excerpts Regarding The Difference Between Libya And US Occupied Haiti

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Beyond Money — Devoted to the liberation of money and credit, and the restoration of the commons — by Thomas H. Greco
 http://beyondmoney.net/2011/04/07/what-is-the-truth-about-libya/

By retaining Libya's oil wealth for the benefit of all its people, Gadaffi had created a socialist paradise. There is no unemployment, Libya has the highest GDP in .Africa, less than 5% of the population is classified as poor and it has fewer people living below the poverty datum line than for example in Holland. Life expectancy is 75 years and is the highest in Africa and I0% above the world average.

With the exception of the nomadic Bedouin and Tuareg tribes, most Libyan families possess a house and a car. There is free health care and education and not surprisingly Libya has a literacy rate of 82%. Last year Gadaffi distributed $500 to each man, woman and child (population 6.5 million).

Libya has a tolerable human rights record and stands at 61 on the International Incarceration Index, comparable with countries in central Europe (the lower the rating, the lower the standing - the USA occupies the no.1 spot!). There is hardly any crime and only rebels and traitors are dealt with harshly.

Anyone who has read Gadaffi's little Green Book will realize that he is a thoughtful and enlightened leader. Libya has been accused of having committed numerous acts of terrorism in the past, but many of these have been perpetrated by foreign intelligence agencies as false flag operations - the Lockerbie bombing being a prime example.

The CIA and MI6 and their frontmen have been stoking up dissent in the east of the country for almost 30 years. Libya produces exceptionally high quality light crude oil and its production cost of $1 a barrel, compared to the current price of $115, is the lowest in the world.

Riba (usury) is not permitted. The Central bank of Libya is a wholly-owned by the Libyan Government and is run as a state bank, issuing all government loans free of interest. This is in contrast to the exploitative fractional reserve banking system of the West. The no-fly zone and the bombing of Libya have nothing to do with the protection of civilians. It is an act of war ­ a blatant and crude attempt by the oil corporations and international bankers to steal the wealth of Libya.
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Consortium News — by William Blum
 http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/050311b.html

So why is only Libya the target for U.S./NATO missiles? Is there some principled or moral reason? Are the Libyans the worst abusers of their people in the region?

In actuality, Libya offers its citizens a higher standard of living. (The 2010 U.N. Human Development Index, a composite measure of health, education and income ranked Libya first in Africa.)

None of the other countries has a more secular government than Libya. (In contrast some of the Libyan rebels are in the habit of chanting that phrase we all know only too well: "Allahu Akbar".)

None of the others has a human-rights record better than that of Libya, however imperfect that may be — in Egypt a government fact-finding mission has announced that during the recent uprising at least 846 protesters were killed as police forces shot them in the head and chest with live ammunition. [Associated Press, April 20, 2011]
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True US History — Cynthia McKinney visits a hospital in Libya — by dondebar
 link to abundanthope.net

Video:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYoXwH5bu0E

[Comment by gerryhiles] This is all breaking my heart. I lived in Libya for a while and nothing being said about the country, nor Qadafi is true. Yes he is eccentric, including being eccentric-enough to have transformed Libyans from being amongst the most impoverished people on Earth, to having free education, free health care and even free housing if necessary.

Not the "American Way". He is a socialist, can't have that can we!!
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Associated Press — Adam Schreck — Diplomatic efforts heat up as bombs target Tripoli
 http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/06/16/general-ml-libya_8520904.html

One of Gadhafi's sons told an Italian newspaper that while his father would not seek exile, elections under international supervision could offer a way out. A vote could be organized within three months, he said.

The son, Seif al-Islam, told Corriere della Sera that Gadhafi would step aside if he lost, which the son said was unlikely. He acknowledged, however, that "my father's regime as it developed since 1969 is dead."

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland rejected the idea of elections in Libya.

"It's a little late for any proposals by Gadhafi and his circles for democratic change," she said Thursday. "It's time for him to go."
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American Everyman — CNN's Misogynistic Cell Phone Porn Propaganda — by Scott Creighton
 link to willyloman.wordpress.com

This latest effort of theirs centers around what "rebel activists" say are cell phones "captured" from Libyan soldiers with videos of rapes on them.

The FAT CNN "journalist" filing this report (same one who did the bullshit interview with the woman in the hospital) admits that they can't see who the supposed victim is, they can't verify the validity of the video, and that the men assaulting the woman are NOT wearing Libyan army uniforms but are instead wearing civilian clothes. And yet the fat "journalist" still reports it as fact.

They blur the video so you can't see the bad acting and probably even worse staging of the ridiculous scene, but listening to the HORRIBLE FUCKING ACTING is enough to PROVE it is BULLSHIT!

Porn actors do a better job!

CNN video of "rape":

 http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/06/14/libya.rape.hfr/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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From Wikipedia, (the "non-profit" encyclopedia (a private asset) built by volunteers)
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya

Tripoli, is home to 1.7 million of Libya's 6.4 million people. The three traditional parts of the country are Tripolitania, Fezzan, and Cyrenaica. Libya has the highest HDI in Africa and the fourth highest GDP (PPP) per capita in Africa as of 2009, behind Seychelles, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon. These are largely due to its large petroleum reserves and low population.[10][11] Libya has the 10th-largest proven oil reserves of any country in the world and the 17th-highest petroleum production.
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Why would one suppose, the US and EU are invading Libya, and bombing Tripoli, killing Muammar Gaddafi's son and three grandchildren? (Wikipedia now claims that Libya's government is run by Chairperson of the National Transitional Council Mustafa Abdul Jalil, and the Chairperson of the Executive Board Mahmoud Jebril — not by Muammar Gaddaji.) Maybe because we've done so very well transforming Haiti into an island paradise.

I Have Absolutely No "U-Tube Rants Against Women And Jews" PERIOD! 18.Jun.2011 15:23

blues

What is going on here?

o give me a break 18.Jun.2011 20:00

long time imcista

You have to be joking. Every corporate media shilling is towing the line re the Demon Qaddafi. But we don't really need a new demon as much as you do.... Man. Give me a freaking break. Like, he's worse than the guy you allowed to run this country for nearly a decade? Please.

CHILL OUT 18.Jun.2011 20:35

sg

You really shouldn't call a woman a liar for accusing someone of rape until you have the facts. That's a nice way of saying "how dare you?" Especially in a country where the ruler prides himself on his femme fatal force. But seriously. One of the problems today is when political ideology stagnates into orthodoxy, especially when that political ideology has been responsible for genocide, mass deportations, pogroms, starvation of peasantry, brain washing, etc. etc. If you believe in a peoples right to self determination, this is what you get. Communism doesn't work, so figure out a more pro-active way to combat capitalism and neo-liberalism or move to Columbia and see if the guerrilla groups down there have anything worth your support. You cannot modernize and centralize a government that quickly without it being violent to the extent that once you've gone that far, there's no going back. Early Chinese Communism before the revolution looks AWESOME. After the revolution, not so much. You have to wonder where on the space time continuum Mao was when he started to align the palace cats for political reeducation. Che Guavera, bad ass, Cuba after 1961, kind of a dump. And if you were ever in that situation, despite you're rhetoric, the possibility of your government, your leader, killing you, is all that much stronger.

It sounds more like you just really like Muammar Gaddafi, he's like you're Flava Flav. No offense, because those are good numbers, and I'll be sure to check and see if they hold up, but it's also a totalitarian state where the Libyan people have the same problems with their government that we have with the basic dynamics of our society except to a much more extreme degree, and it's all being controlled by one man. If you're right, than the problems in Libya are only so much slightltlier worse than those in the United States, but that's good enough for a group of rebels to form an army on a whim and bring down the state. If anything it should give you hope, hope that even in a somewhat modernized country with something resembling a middle class, people will stand up for their rights to the extent where they would wage a civil war. They might be wrong in wanting American help, like the Eastern bloc after the fall of the Soviet Union (back to the joys of communism cause you're the shmuck that thinks a bland world without the freedom of expression is a hoot) but once again, your communist regimes are so awful to live under, that people would rather do business with a government they inherently distrust than have the "dictator of the proletariat" watching over large masses of people being dumped into shallow graves.

This isn't a question of being pro America or pro-Gaddafi, if it's peoples rights you want, then the people have spoken. If you believe in a peoples right to self determination than this is what you get. It sucks, but the problem isn't just American involvement, and the rebels have been accused of human rights violations as well. But the "working man" in Libya doesn't give less than a fuck about what you or I think, they're bad asses, you aint. Don't call a woman a liar when she's been accused of rape until you have all the facts, ever. EVER.