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I'm wealthy, will I be specially targeted if arrested?

I went to WTO / some Maydays / M8 and several other actions before I got outrage fatigue and kind of wandered away. Back then, I couldn't get arrested because I needed a clear criminal history for my chosen trade. I have since started a successful and ethical business and wonder if I can get arrested now or if I would be especially picked on because of my status.
Ok, I know some of you are just going to hate me right off the bat. I'm.. wealthy. I really do believe I got here the right way and I'm exceptionally lucky simply in the timing of what I did, but it doesn't look like I will ever have to work again. I'm not rich, but I'm secure and able to sustain myself without working. I look pretty good on paper, with investments including real estate. I'm not trying to brag, I really do think this is relevant here.

I was wondering if I did get arrested if the cops would be able to tell I have multiple real estate holdings, and if they would pick on me more than everyone else because of this. I'm wondering if I were arrested for, say.. disorderly conduct if the judge would have easy access to see that I have a lot and fine me until I'm back to working in retail.

Thoughts?

Nah 30.Mar.2010 17:39

not a lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but, this gives you a level of privilege in the system. Bail is higher the more financially unstable you are & the fewer ties to community you have, for example. Fines are set fees based on the "crimes" you are convicted of. So you are now recruited by the People's Army to come on out & give that privilege a work out, soldier!

discussion

Serously? 30.Mar.2010 17:19

P. Mann

You have to much time on your hands, if anything they will silently kick you out of a group. Having money means getting out many problems. Stop worrying and do what you want unless you plan on destroying things or kicking a cop there's no way they will be able to fine you back to retail. Now donate some money to a cause or get in it

Donate 30.Mar.2010 17:46

Bakunin

You should make a donation to the Institute for Anarchist Studies. They give grants to writers, so they can take time off work or hire child care to assist them in their writing. Go here:  http://www.anarchiststudies.org/support/donate

It's a great use of money, and would be greatly appreciated. It's a form of protest to help radical writers.

haha 30.Mar.2010 17:54

@

hey, at least you have money for a good attorney!

Civil liability 30.Mar.2010 18:31

Tort

It means they'll finally have someone worth suing.

Seriously, 30.Mar.2010 20:47

...

They say that if your enemies are wise, they will never take everything you have because then you would have "nothing to lose," and then you would be truly dangerous.

I say this as a mother who has had 99.9% of everything but my child taken from me by the family law system. They know they can do whatever the fuck they want to mothers, as long as they let us keep our children, which they don't have the tits to be responsible for anyway (there's a reason why men don't have wombs). I would love more than anything to not be financially raped, but I have tried to the extent that I filed suit with the feds (documented in StreetRoots) for allowing the states to impose a Jim Crow system on mothers by making us work without pay (or else get arrested for child abuse), etc. But I can only go so far, as I have to be a mom, #1. I think this is why you don't see the cops attacking mothers so much---they know we already have our own system of constraint already in place. What you have to lose really does matter, and influences the greater outcome of protests and social movements....

There's also that conventional idea around the courts that the lawyers/system will go after the deep pockets. Wow, is this ever true! Why did the lady who was burned by hot coffee from McDonalds awarded so much money---McDonalds had the money (I'm on her side). Why were the cigarette manufacturers sued for so much money---they had the money. It has nothing to do with rights or morals, just money. I've heard horror stories of, say, a wealthy old person who breaks his/her hip, and wants to recuperate at home instead of in a care facility----and then a social worker comes in and declares him/her to be insane, and has them forcibly committed to the care facility----and then all of their life savings/assets---all are drained in one motion to pay for this unauthorized "care."

I've worked closely with people who have cases in the Multnomah county courthouse, where the state/county is taking their land for the most asinine of reasons. What about all the pilots who had great salaries, and stocked up great retirements with their own money---and then the airlines just "took" their retirements---remember when that happened? Most often though, a very crooked and slithery lawyer is siphoning off the estate until it's dry. I've seen people go from being wealthy to being paupers just because of the funky legal system. As long as a lawyer is getting fed by your money, the game is on. In some jurisdictions, judge promotions are controlled by lawyers, so the judges literally have to answer to and feed the lawyers, if they want to get promoted. Gresham community media/cable access has a show which has featured these stories.

So, that's my opinion---I definitely feel that they will look at you as a juicy morsel.

But, you can't sell your soul and be a robot like those empty cops, either. You have to live your life and be in control of your own life. So, if I were you, I would just keep talking to folks, and try to figure out a way to live by your values without having to fork over a pound of flesh. There's got to be smart ways to do it---even rich people want to be happy in a real way, and not self-medicate their lives away in materialistic addictions.

this must be a... 30.Mar.2010 21:20

joke

is this poster kidding? am i right?

Dear Mr. Lucky 31.Mar.2010 01:04

dontknowwtftotellyou

What an ethical dilemma. A rich person who gets a conscience. I don't think you are the first.

I don't see why you aren't busy planting biodiverse orchids, gardens, and trees fit for human habitat and needs on your real estate?

Gets a conscience? 31.Mar.2010 04:50

Me

I'm likely a little more offended than I should be, but I must ask.. who are you to think I ever lost my conscience?

About half way through the Bush years I just got outrage fatigue and was really busy with other things in life.. like running this business which I really do go out of my way to do ethically and caring for a family member who was dying of cancer. Did you know that in the 9 years I've been running this business I've had 8-10 employees and only had 1 quit.. and he was moving to be with family? You know why that is? Because I treat my employees with respect; paying them what is fair instead of the lowest wage the market will bear. I don't think anyone should ever be paid less than 15/hr for any kind of work, so I pay that amount. In return I have awesome happy employees who have helped my business to thrive. Did you know that I've been in real estate for years and never done an eviction? Thats because my rent is waaaaay below market, just enough to pay the mortgage/property taxes/insurance. I take my houses as a tax write off because the rent is just enough to cover those basic expenses and of course repairs will be necessary. I'm not greedy.. I'll make money off the houses when they are paid off decades from now.. and likely use that money for an idea I have for a way to help single moms. Until then its very cheap housing for a few lucky and greatful families.

I really wish everybody had the financial security I have, but I'm not Bill Gates. I don't have enough to lift everybody up.. I just have enough so that I don't have to work myself. I don't live an extravagant lifestlye, but like someone else wrote.. I'm worth suing. When I have extra at the end of the year it usually goes to SOTR, where I ate a lot as a teen. If you were me, would you really give everything up to your cause? I like not working. I worked hard and risked everything to start this business, and with the people who run it day to day I deserve something for what I put in.

If my houses were sold some families that couldn't afford to live elsewhere would be in quite a pickle.. they are renting at about 65% of market value! My employees would probably not like to all get canned and replaced by minimum wage workers but its a sure thing if I went to prison for something they'd let most people out for the next day that an investor would buy the company and that would happen.

I worked REALLY hard to get where I am today. I knew that it was a big risk and probably would not work, but I tried anyway. I played fair and kept my karma clean and found a comfy spot. Do I want to stay here?? Hell yes. I deserve it. If you were where I am, would you not want to stay there?

Are you sure you aren't just jealous? I think judging someone just because they are financially secure is just as bad as judging them because they are not. The poor are not where they are because they are stupid or lazy.. they usually work harder than the wealthy. Likewise those of us who somehow found a comfortable lifestyle aren't necessarily bad people.

These same people, when asked how they get their camcorders and cell phones to blog from the action and film it. They usually say its donated to them. You know who does that? People like me. You know who does things like matching grants for SOTR? People like me. An effective movement doesn't need money but it helps.. you're not doing your causes a favor by judging anyone who wants to help.

Are you serious? 31.Mar.2010 08:28

???

If you are really serious, then I need to explain to you that wealthy people are rarely punished by the police state in this society. (You know how you can pop prescription pills by the bucket load to numb the pain, but a poor person who has to get cheap drugs on the streets goes to jail? It's kind of like that.)(Or the way the 76 duster gets pulled over while the mercedes just flies on by? Yeh. Like that.) Working class people are far more likely to be harassed and messed with than you are.

I Think he is very Serious in his Concern 31.Mar.2010 08:37

Tracy Mapes news1st@hotmail.com

It's like Someone who wants to effect a Water Rescue, but they know the Water is Cold.

It is a Matter of Nature and Self Preservation to fear jumping off of Dry Land into the Icy Waters of doing what is Right. Right in the sense of redressing a grievance that effects more than the Self, but is Detrimental to the Community as a Whole.

It doesn't mean you have to be Rich or Poor or 100% Morally Correct, but that you care for Reasons that far out weigh the mere Significance of Your Own Being. If You Just Live that Way? ...Or Come to Feel the Calling to Answer Some Injustice that has come to Your Attention? ...the Pervasive and Deeply ingrained Corruption Fostered by All of Our Communities will Bite You back. And the Depth of that Bite will be predicated by the Size of the Waves You Make in the Pond.

It's just like Combat. If You are Manning the Loudest Gun on the field of Battle, You Will Also be the Recipient of the Most Flack. So? ...Where is the Pay-off? I Guess the Real Pay-off is when You get enough People to Believe in You, they Keep Feeding You Ammunition so You can Continue the Battle? Or? ...They cover your flank, so you're not getting shot in the back so often. The Value of any cause is, Did You Change Someone's Life beyond the Scope of the Self?

That's What I Call the Pay-Off. The Reward is Not Compromising Your Own Values. I'm not saying that will feed You. But In a Very Real Way, It does Feed Exactly what it should mean to Be a Human Being. You may not Always be Full, Or Be Clothed Properly ...But There Will Always Be a Warmth and Fire Inside of You until You Die.

-----------

And, When I think of Living that Way? ...And then think about the type of Pasty Faced excuses for Humans that you generally find conducting the Daily Rituals of Governance, and the Mundane Lifeless Negating of Real Lives? ...There is No Wondering if I Made the Right Choices in Life.

And, So ...It's All a Matter of Personal Choice. You can Always wonder how Cold That Water Really is? Or? ...You can jump in, And Feel Every Damned Day Life has to Offer You.


Take Care,

-Tracy Mapes


I wish there wasn't a need to remain anonymous.... 31.Mar.2010 15:02

animal activist

because I'd like to rent from you, if the properties are kept up. You sound like a caring person, who would be fair to activists and others who rent from you. I'd also patronize your business, if you sell something I would use.

I understand your concern. In my experience as an activist, having seen numerous arrests and lawsuits, I have not generally seen these things being about money, but about temporarily/permanently disabling protests by arrests, restraining orders and such. (And I'm talking about targeted animal rights protesting, with small non-national groups, which is certainly where the heat is, legally). I do believe that as long as you're not involved in something like property destruction where they can assess a dollar amount and ask you to re-pay it, you are relatively safe. AETA makes it a little scarier, but most people are not doing AR activism (I assume you're not?), and the chances of you specifically being targeted by AETA is not likely, especially here in Oregon.

Some of this is about faith though. The PTB can do whatever they want to you, in the end. If you sit back and are not an activist and try to blend in, scared and protecting what you have...then who are you? What do you stand for in life? You may lose it all anyway. Say you get in your car and accidently hit a pedestrian and are hit with a civil suit and lose everything? Or any number of things.

Anyway, there is plenty of activism that you can do that is still effective that doesn't involve riskier activities. I think you're epecially safe if you work with a national group (like if you do animal activism you can work with IDA), as you have some protection from them, if this is your concern.

No vacancies in years 31.Mar.2010 17:43

Me

People just don't move out. I bought right before the boom/price increases so when I first started I was charging pretty much market rent, I had to or I couldn't pay the mortgage/tax/insurance. When intrest rates dipped I refi'd and to many people's slackjawed amazement lowered the rents. I don't think anyone's moving anytime soon and when they do they always know someone else who would like to take the place over. As for supporting my business I really do appreciate the thought but I'd understandably like to keep that separate.

I've often wondered how many businesses would do better if they just paid their workers more. You get what you pay for; I never did anything good for anybody for minimum wage .. just the bare minimum to avoid getting fired and that only if someone making 20c an hour more was breathing down my neck. I think it makes good economic, as well as karmic, sense to pay a living wage and avoid these kinds of problems as well as training and recruitment costs.

I hadn't heard about that AETA thing and find it very disturbing. So many great moments in history would have been called terrorism.. like the Montgomery Bus Boycott for example. I can't remember who said it, but its worth sayin' again..

"Anyone who sacrifices liberty for safety gets neither."

So a rich person wants some validation here? 31.Mar.2010 19:28

Maybe a pass for not being one of those 'evil' rich people?

How about not.

Let's acknowledge that some rich people are *much* better than others. Also, it should be noted, some poor people are horrible. So what? If you're rich (meaning you have disproportionate access to resources) you still suck on some level. It's definitely a positive thing that you're 'providing' housing to people at below market rates. Please realize that it's still problematic that someone else is paying your mortgage and that their well being is dependent on your continued generosity. That generosity is always up to you. Why is that? Do you, by virtue of being rich, deserve to make these decisions more than the people directly affected? Should a person or family living in one of your properties be kissing your ass because you could charge more than you are? What about the fact that after your mortgage is paid you have a valuable property free and clear and they just have what they started with: no wealth, living at the mercy of a landlord. Do you really deserve it all just because you had the cash or credit to buy at the right time?

And what about your employees? So you treat them better than other bosses: great! You're still a boss. Why do you get to not work at all while 'your' employees create and sustain the value of 'your' business? So they aren't quitting. Congratulations for not exploiting them as much as you could! What a sacrifice; you could be even richer than you are!

My point is that this is a clear case of paternalism. I have no doubt that you worked hard (at some point) and that you've had your share of difficulties (caring for someone with cancer is commendable.) In addition you didn't create the game you just played it and won. I'm not even trying to make you feel guilty -- just less self-satisfied. The game you're playing is inherently unjust. Everyone -- rich and poor -- would be better served by ending the game rather than trying to play it the 'right' way.

Yes. And I can help you. 31.Mar.2010 19:37

Cat

Yes, as we all know, wealthy people are much more at risk of being harassed, beaten, pepper sprayed, tortured, incarcerated, and killed than working class people. Are you white? Oh my! Then you are in extra peril! Because as a wealthy white person, as everyone knows, you are at a much greater risk of police brutality than a working class person of color. So you're onto something. But fear not. We can help you.

I'm going to send you a self addressed, stamped envelope. You can unburden yourself of some of your "multiple real estate holdings" by placing the titles for those properties into that envelope and mailing it back to me. I may just keep some of it for myself. After all, I've worked very hard, I think I would like to have some spare property. Is any of it farm property? I could really use some farm property for a lot of animals who need sanctuary.

Are there houses? Because, I know it's very hard for you to risk police brutality by having many more homes than you could ever actually live in at one time. But it's also very hard to be homeless and living on the streets. Although the police target wealthy people like you a lot, they also tend - believe it or not! - to go after homeless people trying to scrape up a living on the downtown streets. In fact, I know you will find this difficult to believe, given your experiences of oppression, but they might even have it a little harder than yourself. Because, believe it or not, while it is perfectly legal for someone like you to own "multiple real estate holdings" while other people are homeless, it is actually a crime to have no home to sleep in, no home to use the bathroom in. There are laws against sleeping on the streets, laws against sitting too long in one place, laws against "loitering" and "vagrancy," laws against urinating or defecating outside of a toilet, and there are few public restrooms open to homeless people in downtown Portland. So yes, believe it or not, your burden could actually become someone else's boon!

So don't feel selfish about it, we're all waiting to help you. Just send me the titles to your real estate holdings, and any spare cash you think might put you into peril, and I will see that they are justly distributed among people who need them. Don't worry, I will make sure each and every one of these people gets only one or two of your real estate holdings. That way, they won't be taking a lot more than they really need, there will be plenty for everyone, and no one will be targeted by police for... for being too wealthy.

You Do Have Some Special Protections, But They Will Also Go After Your Loot 01.Apr.2010 20:52

blues

Quite frankly, if I hit the jackpot for a million or so, I would buy a small store, and charge $X + 95 cents (and figure in sales taxes) for the commonly sold items. At closing I would come around and take the receipts. Then I'd grab the nickles and pennies and drop them into 10 deep-sunk plastic plumbing pipes covered with rocks. No one would ever find them all if they were too deep for metal detectors. Or something like that. The pipes could always be yanked out fast, even if the land was confiscated. Something like that. This also gives you an "excuse" to go to the bank for more "change"! (Banks don't just hand out lots of nickles for dollar bills anymore. Guess why.) The metal in nickles is worth more than their face value now.

At least you would feel more free to do what you want. So that's just what I would do. Just being honest here!

I personally believe no one should be allowed to own more than twenty times the assets they need to make a decent livelihood, but I wouldn't limit myself that way unless the law made all the other greedier people do so as well. One must play the prevailing game.

Get your answer? 02.Apr.2010 13:50

evilrichcapitalistpiggie

Based on the feedback you got from what appears to be a very serious inquiry, do you still want to get involved with this kind of bunch? You worked hard, took on the risk and liability that a business owner does. You provided jobs that would not have existed if you didn't start your business, you pay more taxes than anyone else, and obviously are concerned about your community and others and you get pissed on by this bunch of lazy slacker kings of victimhood...maybe you should look elsewhere for another group of people to associate with.

Oh yes indeed 02.Apr.2010 19:32

gotcher answer right here

Yes, like the evil capitalist said, I'm certain that this must have been a very, very serious inquiry. Also a clueless one, but nevermind. Thanks for the "jobs." ("Jobs," meaning, meaningless wage slavery whereby capitalist asses like the above get to parasitize off the labor of others who are not equally rewarded. "Jobs," meaning, we put up the sweat equity, we take the risks, and people like this get to have "multiple real estate holdings," while others are homeless. Yeh. Thanks.)

Poor little rich boys. Pissed on by the system, pissed on by The Man, and now pissed on by "this bunch of lazy slacker kings of victimhood" who are merely out creating a better world from the bricks up, without exploiting anyone else to do it.

Why not make your own "jobs" 03.Apr.2010 14:15

Just one little flaw in the victim defense...

Just one small problem with saying these were slave labor, poor paying jobs...$15 an hour for what is most likely only no or semi-skilled positions is pretty damn good. If those jobs are so awful and useless to you, then why don't you create your own high-paying jobs? Start your own business...I mean after all stupid, mean capitalists were able to do it, then why can't you? According to your attitude you are far superior to any of awful successful people in this society, then this should be a absolute snap for you and your ilk.

Bottom line...next time you need a job, go ask a poor person if they will hire you... maybe a panhandler will pay you to work their ramp on the interstate while they go for a manicure and a massage.

Well I guess you've missed the memo 04.Apr.2010 21:40

we all have jobs

1. Most of us have day jobs because we have to eat and pay bills, and the system is set up to enslave us into that system so that people like rich greedy capitalists don't have to work, they can get the rest of us to do it for them. Doesn't mean we have to like it, agree with it, or even refrain from tearing it all down.

2. Maybe you missed the memo, but we also have JOBS. Not $15 an hour "jobs" for people like you. Not wage slavery. No. We work for each other. We are working for a new world. We feed and grow food for each other, we protect each other, we fight to save the earth and the animals together, we have created our own media, our own worker collectives, our own infrastructure, out own skill sharing. We are learning to cooperate and build something new. But you wouldn't know that, because you're sitting there in your dead, crumbling little world thinking you got it good. Yes, isn't it nice to think so.

I left one off 04.Apr.2010 21:41

number 3

And 3. I don't know if you've noticed here, but the only "victim" mentality seems to be on the part of the ridiculous person who thinks they will be especially targeted because they're (laugh) wealthy.

Isn't that just like you rich dorks.