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Man sets himself on fire in front of Ungar furs?
Just read on KATU website that a man set himself on fire in front of Ungar furs downtown while yelling "animals are dying" today.
Anyone have information in this?
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Man taken to hospital
According to oregonlive, man is at Emanuel hospital in serious or critical condition.
Reported 2 me
heard on the street
he is seriously burned
when he lit him self on fire he tried to get in door of the fur store
but the store contols the front door locks from inside
i have no other information at 3:25 Wednesday
The Portland Alliance
The man died. The Medical Examiner's office said his name is Daniel Shaull. No one seems to know anything else about him though.
Father: Son who burned himself alive was a troubled genius
PORTLAND, Ore. - The father of a man who set himself on fire Wednesday in downtown Portland and died from the subsequent injuries said his son had mental issues and had tried suicide before.
Warren Shaull, the father of Daniel Shaull, 26, talked to KATU News shortly after hearing about his son's death.
"Because of the way that he thinks, maybe he thought that was the only way out," Warren Shaull said. He added that Daniel may have become convinced "that nothing was ever going to change and there was nothing he could do about it."
According to witnesses, Daniel Shaull doused himself with gasoline and then lit the fuel while he stood outside the Portland furrier Nicholas Ungar Furs, located in downtown Portland.
The business has been the target of protests by animal rights groups for the past several years.
The Portland Anti-Fur Campaign said in an email "we do not know who this person was nor do we know what his intentions were" but also added that "It is really unfortunate that one would feel as if they must take such drastic measures, yet, this Fur Store has continued their bloody business despite protests outside for 3 years now." The full text of their press release appears below this story.
Daniel's father described him as a generous young man who gave away everything he owned without reservation, including his own jacket, even if it meant he would suffer. His father said that he once told him that people may have thought he was "crazy" to do that but he felt the world around him was crazy.
In the phone interview with KATU News, Warren repeatedly stressed that his son told him he was upset with violence in the world and was frustrated with the world's social ills and the apparent inability to solve them.
Warren said Daniel was traveling the nation by bus and was in Portland to attend Mission Teen, which ministers to troubled youth. He apparently wanted to be a counselor. However, Warren said Daniel was asked to leave the organization after only a few days and was directed to the Portland Rescue Mission.
He said Daniel had Oregon in mind due to what he believed was a large population of vegetarians in the area.
Warren said Daniel's actions outside the fur business were "really out of the ordinary" for him despite known psychiatric issues and past suicidal tendencies. Warren described Daniel as a "genius" with a faculty scholarship at an unnamed college but that the position did not work out.
However, he also added that Daniel may have been talked into the self-immolation. He said it might have been possible for him to be persuaded to attempt such an action. He did not speculate on who may have have tried to convince Daniel to do such a thing and did not blame anyone for his actions.
He said his son had troubles in the past but had gotten his life together, was working out and was on a quest to find peace and justice in the world.
After setting himself ablaze, witnesses, including a local photographer who shot photos of the aftermath of the incident, said Daniel ran down the street where some nearby police and other bystanders managed to put out the flames using a fire extinguisher.
The clothing Daniel was wearing were reportedly engulfed in flames. Charred remains of clothes, a shoe and other personal items were found at the scene.
Shaull later died from his injuries at a local hospital. Warren said that Daniels last words, spoken to a pastor at the hospital, were "I hope that someone loves me."
Daniel Shaull was from Dodge City, Kansas. He is survived by his parents, a brother and a sister. He had turned 26 three weeks ago.
His parents said his remains were scheduled to be returned to Kansas.
Officer accidentally used pepper spray on burning man
PORTLAND, Ore. - The first Portland Police officer to arrive on the scene of the man who set himself on fire Wednesday outside the Nicholas Ungar Furs store, accidentally used pepper spray in an attempt to put out the flames instead of a fire extinguisher, officials at the Portland Police Bureau said Thursday.
Police said the officer, who was nearby, saw 26-year-old Daniel Shaull of Kansas on fire, parked her patrol car, went to her trunk and accidentally grabbed pepper spray used for riot control instead of the fire extinguisher.
The canister of pepper spray the officer used is red like many fire extinguishers.
Police said someone else, a motorist who had been driving by, did grab an actual fire extinguisher to help Shaull, but he kept running away. It is unclear if that was because of the effects of the pepper spray.
Portland Police Chief Rosie Sizer said she's been told by the Portland Fire Bureau that the pepper spray used was water based and was not an accelerant. She said it did not make matters worse but that the use of the spray was regrettable.
More details upcoming ...
"In the phone interview with KATU News, Warren repeatedly stressed that his son told him he was upset with violence in the world and was frustrated with the world's social ills and the apparent inability to solve them."
Oh. No, that doesn't sound political at all.
I would caution us all from relying upon the corporate media to frame and "explain" this event. They have attempted to disconnect it from the context in which it happened, telling us that it was "not political." Now they seem to be implying that some animal rights activist may have "talked him into" burning himself to death? Did I read that right?
I think it's pretty obvious that anyone who is troubled by the violence all around us, and "frustrated with the world's social ills" would not have accidentally ended his life in the doorway of a fur store. Maybe he was mentally ill, but maybe he was just tired of the kind of world who would treat others in the way that is exemplified by the Ungars.
Wow. So the cops douse him with pepper spray instead of a fire extinguisher, and then claim it "didn't make a difference."
Isn't that somehow really appropriate for the situation, in a sad kind of way. I mean, it's the only way they know how to deal with animal rights demonstrators. Oh! Someone's doing something! Grab the pepper spray! It's like, auto pilot or something.
Yeh, nothing political about THAT either.
Another interview with the father indicates that Daniel moved to the area because of the "large number of vegetarians" and often spoke of "violence in the world and (frustration) with the world's social ills and the apparent inability to solve them." This information combined with the location of the incident (Ungar Furs) and the testimony of at least one witness claiming that Daniel was screaming "There are animals dying! Animals dying!"; seems to point heavily in the direction of a political motive.
I'd also like to interject the point that just because this individual was apparently mentally unstable and suicidal doesn't automatically discredit him and certainly doesn't mean we should just write him off as "just some crazy."
Was He Tasered?
How do we know this man actually set himself on fire?
Who was the specific person(s) who actually saw him 1.) Pour gas on himself 2.)
Ignite the fire himsef? The answer is we do't know. From all my reading so far...NO SPECIFIC PERSON HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED THAT SAW HIM DO EITHER THING...just the police reporting
Maybe what actually happened is this.....the cops pull up to this man who is making a scene and raucus of protest outside the furier...they tell him to move along...he declines....he disobeys...so the cops then NAIL HIM WITH PEPPER SPRAY and TASER him at the same time...and he gopes up in flames...the taser has been shown in multiple tests to be able to ignite pepper spray...SO NOW the cops have to admit the use of pepper spray and explain it...what do they say? they say it was an accident that they used it instead of water after the man set HIMSELF on fire...isn't that a nice tidy story?
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Fox is reporting also
reading the internet
Gross fox news is also reporting this story - no word on the person who set himself on fire, if it had to do with the Ungar protest, or what condition man is in.
Who was it?
The regular Ungar protesters don't know him.
animal defense league
We do not know who this person is nor do we know what his intentions were. IF his intentions were to raise awareness of unnecessary animal suffering and killing done in the fur industry, and by businesses like Ungar Furs, then we wish him well. We are not saying that we want people to light themselves on fire and run into fur shops, but sometimes you have to make noise, and make a scene to stand up for the animals.
And this just gets worse. Daniel Shaull, the man who did this, died.
Please stop fucking arguing tactics right now.
This is SOOOO not the time to be condemning this guy for doing this. Fuck, what is wrong with some of you.
Those of you who care about animals. Do you never feel this frustrated? This hopeless? I would be lying if I said I didn't.
I don't endorse an act of self sacrifice like this, but I don't really think he cared. I don't think this was about you or me or making the scene. I don't think he gave a fuck how we might want to pontificate about it now. I think he just felt so hopeless, and so overwhelmed by it all, that he didn't know what else to do.
I can relate.
God, it really sucks, being someone who can see the animals for who they are in this world filled with people who can't. People who don't give a fuck, people who sit around on forums like this one and talk about how "silly" it is to care about chickens being slaughtered, or how "self righteous" it is to choose not to eat them.
Fuck you all.
Leave this poor guy alone and stop being asses.
A Sad Situation
I agree with the last comment. It would be a really (rare) awesome show of maturity and respect if future commenters didn't jump to conclusions, and were compassionate in their response.
Have some compassion!
Now we're not even talking chickens, but talking about real people! And there's still no compassion?!
A 26 year old, with a definite mental un-wellness, just basically committed suicide, his last words screaming about the suffering of the animals inside the fur store.
What if he did this because he felt so helpless, so hopeless? What if he felt so helpless because much of his community insisted on arguing on message boards over pseudo-ethics instead of making any change? What if he felt so hopeless because he was a part of a community that tore each other apart any time the phrase "be nice to animals" came up?
I feel this way often, and, regardless of what I think of his tactics, I'm deeply saddened because I can relate to his frustration and sadness.
Rest In Peace
A distant observer
No one in the animal rights community seems to know this person neither does anyone else who has posted a message on this site. So, let's not pretend we do and let's not try to analyze or understand his motive. Bottom line is we know nothing. There is a chance this man frequently walked by Unger's while protesters were outside, maybe he even talked to some of them. The vendor across the street may not have accurately heard what the man said in the chaos. Why don't we simply agree to feel compassion and sadness for loss of a human life and the pain felt by those who actually knew and loved him. Rest in peace.
I place the death of
in solidarity with animals
this young man squarely at the feet of Horst Grimm, the owner of Ungar furs, and all the other human shitheads who fuck up the world for animals and those humans who have any sense of compassion for them. All you fur wearers, vivisection supporters, meat eaters...you are cruel for no other reason than that you are allowed to be. You need to just leave the other earthlings alone. Let them live with the peace and freedom you demand for yourselves. I understand why a sensitive young man just had too much of your B.S. destructiveness.
The man who set himself on fire has died
"I understand why a sensitive young man just had too much of your B.S. destructiveness."
So much suffering caused by humans, and so many humans who just don't care.
May people reflect on what happened and let it reveal its significance.
And may the asswipes who own Ungar furs find it very, very hard to sleep at night. Maybe they will understand the depth of passion people have for their victims NOW. Even if they don't care about the animals, or the suffering they cause, maybe they will care about the lengths to which they now know that people are willing to go to stand for the animals.
Any length. Any length at all.
I am sure that the owner of Ungar furs will indeed find it hard to sleep at night. If we are to practice compassion for all beings, how can you find comfort in that?
one might hope that it would give pause to all these people who shout "Humans are always more important than nonhumans! Who cares about animals while there is a single human on the planet suffering!" But that would not be the case. Take a look at the comments to this article about it:
In reality, people who claim to care so much about humans and not animals, don't even care much about humans (especially when they disagree with them).
How can I find comfort in that Amy?
Because he SHOULDN'T sleep well at night, while he is peddling tortured animals. I hope he doesn't sleep well and whatever remnant of a conscience he might possess kicks in and makes him change his despicable, life-long behavior. I also hope child rapists who are continuing to rape children don't sleep well at night. You find that uncompassionate? I find your tolerance for abuse ridiculous.
OH COME ONE NOW
Unless you spoke with this man and he clearly related his intentions to you prior to the incident,
it is not appropriate to speculate what they were.
ADL(I say this only because of your above comment:
No, you don't condone or encourage this kind of behavior, and you cannot even speculate that
this was his protest or not. Carry on and take care of each other. Keep in mind that you didn't
know him as has already been stated, and keep solidarity strong amongst you.
What happened today, and I've been reading and digging into it all, was an act of someone
who is no longer alive, due to these actions. We know what he did. Now...
The blame, credit, or whatnot cannot be taken or given, even to Horst Grimm at Ungar Furs. So stop
using this as a sounding board to point out an example of how horrible the place is. Use concrete
facts, not assumptions, and leave the guy to rest in peace.
I think we know a lot about his motives, by his actions. He was in a lot of pain, clearly over animal cruelty among whatever else was hurting him. He set himself on fire outside of the only fur store in town, and tried to go inside, and was yelling about the suffering of animals.
That's fucking horrible
That's fucking horrible, oh my god.
It's not the darkness I'm afraid of, or the the long night the future has in store for all of us. No I can let the darkness be, it's being blind to horrors man kind has inflicted upon are lonely little planet. The darkness is just ignorance.
What scares the hell out of me is the rising of the sun upon our miserable lives. The clarity of the light, the moment when we can see our own wretched lives in full living color. What will we do, when mankind finally comes to the realization: the sun does not orbit the earth, when we realize our own egos, mean nothing, when the concept of self brakes down, and we see our lives as nothing more then a part of the every thing? we are not the every thing. The Sun does not orbit the earth, we are it's slaves rotating around and around until it decides to die.
What is the idea of free will, the sovereignty of nations and a name? Nothing more then labels and concepts to disguise our true nature as parts of the whole, with a thin vail of individuality. I'm not afraid of the night, what scares me is the light. What happens when man kind realizes there is no point to his suffering?
I personally talked to someone who witnessed this and she said it just sounded like he was yelling for help, not that he was yelling about animals. The person who said he was yelling about animals also gave some untrue information to mainstream media reporters about past activities of the protesters at Ungar Furs.
His father doesn't think his actions were political. Apparently he just came to Portland about a week ago from Kansas and has been living on the streets.
My posts keep getting deleted but I think it's important that this man's own father is saying his son was mentally ill, was suicidal, and that he was not political. I understand that some people are eager to cheer on this act of insanity, but your cheerleading flies in the face of the facts. The guy who claimed this man was yelling about animals also lied about protester activity at Ungar's, no one in the animal rights movement knew this guy, and nothing about his actions make this seem like it was organized as part of a protest. Like I said in my first deleted post (And I already know this one will go too, but something keeps urging me to be the voice of reason here) this is a sad thing that happened to a poor young man, and not something we should be trying to associate with animal rights.
Everything about this death is political.
The fact that the guy was suffering from mental illness, was homeless, and was hurting that badly even before he got here and no one did anything about it? That's political.
And don't tell me he just "happened" to burst into flames outside the only fur store in all of Portland for no reason. It's pretty clear to me that he was suffering, possibly from the pain of not being able to do anything about all the suffering all around us. Looks pretty political to me.
Just because he may have been mentally ill does not mean that there was no political/ethical motivation. Likewise, just because his act might have been politically/ethically motivated on the surface doesn't mean that there weren't other factors. It's a false dichotomy to believe that the two are mutually exclusive. There are quite a number of "radicals" who have, alongside their activist persona, some kind of psychiatric issues to work out, hopefully to be worked on in a non-self-destructive way... Likewise, it is discriminatory to believe that said persons cannot make political judgements or that we can automatically dismiss what they have to say simply on account of such issues.
I don't think anyone was saying that being mentally ill makes someone unethical.
But to label his inner pain and suffering and ending it the way he die as direct action for animals is horrifying of you all.
You don't have to be political to acknowledge and be burdened by the horrors in the world. If you aren't then you're likely someone who sits around watching foot ball and drinking beer every, well, I have no idea since I'm not up and up on that kind of schedule, but you should be able to get the picture. More people feel pain over the suffering of the world than activists and vegans. A LOT more.
This whole thing has turned into nothing but gossip it seems.
Grow up and show some compassion.
So true NN
Excellent point NN. Dichotomies and contradictions abound in the human experience. And who is to say what is madness? I just watched KATU's news report online. The fellow with the food cart said that Daniel was shouting about the animal abuse. I doubt that this witness who was right there when it happened is mistaken or lied. While this poor young man's life and death are horribly sad, I think it is important to remember the suffering of the foxes and minks and other fur bearing animals who are caged for years or caught in hideous traps, deprived of even basic needs, often not even given water, killed by anal or vaginal electrocution, and stripped of their skin, sometimes while they are still conscious--all for a fashion statement. They suffer horrible lives and deaths every single day, and will continue to do so until Ungar Furs and all others like it are shut down forever. And Macy's and Nordstroms etc. stop selling fur or fur trimmed clothing. Unfortunately the animals' story was not included in the KATU report. It is my fervent hope that Daniel's death will lead to an end to this totally needless torture at least here in Portland. May he rest in peace.
Daniel's last words: "I hope that someone loves me."
I don't even know what you're trying to say. Of course he was making a statement with his death. He didn't jump off a bridge. He went to a fur store, a symbol of the suffering and deaths of animals. He was an ethical veg*n who recently came to this city because he thought it would be a place he would find like-minded people. He expressed his inner pain at what happens to animals by killing himself there. It's "horrifying" to me that his statement, which is in fact, political, would be overlooked and put only into some "personal pain" narrative. It's both personal AND political. Of COURSE it's political, whether he meant it as strategy (I suspect not) or not. Why you would take that away or not see that is beyond me.
Thank you MI
I'm sad by how quickly many in the animal rights community have moved to distance themselves from this, apparently out of fear of being "made to look bad" by this act. I expected as much from some, but... not from most of the people I have been hearing this from.
This person was in great pain, and apparently suffering from mental illness. He also seems to have cared a great deal about animals, and suffered the pain of empathy for them. He might not have been part of the Portland animal rights community, but it sickens me how callously everyone is attempting to make it clear to the rest of the world that he wasn't "one of us." The very community he seems to have come here to find... makes him an outcast in death just as surely as the rest of the world seems to have made him an outcast in life.
Punch a cop
it's so fucked that Daniel, and others in severe conditions, have been sprayed with pepper spray "accidentally". Evermore obvious is the urgent need to disintegrate authoritarianism and disband the agents of its forceful agenda. Might doesn't equal right, never did, and never will.
I think it's really lame the implication I keep hearing that mentally ill people have no intentions of their own. Like they are just confused and randomly doing things devoid of meaning. A little simplistic and dismissive.
I also think it's sad that, apparently to some, you have to be well-known to a network of activists for your actions to be validated either way.
The facts are: A man lit himself on fire and tried to enter a fur shop and died doing so, his last action in this life and it's gotten some mainstream attention.
I think it would far smarter to shine the light on Unger's rather than trying to distance ourselves from this by writing this off as "mental illness", not try to focus on the old tired "this will make us look bad" when most non-AR people think we weird and insane ANYWAY and regardless of this person's intent use it to bring up issues rather than try to sweep in under the carpet and hope it goes away.
No matter which side you take...
...there still existed an opportunity for refocusing and redirection of the message. The fact it happened at Ungar makes them the focus, whether or not you believe the incident was political. For example, IDA's response was simply that they didn't know him. I think there was a lost opportunity. They should've said something like "We don't know him. We know lots of activists that protest against the abuse and exploitation of animals that Ungar Furs is involved in, and while we have no idea about him or his unfortunate choice of action, that does not minimize or excuse the horror to animals that Ungar represents."
I have some sympathy for that officer in panicking, and grabbing the wrong cannister. It's a pretty unusual situation. Even if the first demand on police and ambulance drivers is that they remain calm in emergencies, I think that the police department is first best served by hiring people with good social work skills, rather than unmoveable Clint Eastwood types
Amen, Pete and UFO
I think you are absolutely right. Instead of running around trying to prove we had nothing to do with this, FOCUS ON THE FREAKING ANIMALS.
Good God. Back to the daily demos, and stop acting like we have something to hide. Yes, that poor man burned to death. No, we don't know who he was or why he did it, we can only speculate based on what little we do know. What little we do know seems to indicate that he was so despondent over the suffering of the animals who keep dying and dying and dying to fill Ungar's coffers, and so upset over - as his father says - feeling powerless to change anything, that he sacrificed himself there. He seemed to feel there was nothing else to do.
Let's not let that sacrifice be in vain.
Whatever we may feel about the reasons or tactical strategy (!) of his act, don't let his death have been in vain. Focus on the animals.
PEPPER SPRAY on a burning man.
Cindy, think of it this way
You may have "sympathy" for the officer, Cindy, but there is no excuse. None.
We are told over and over that the Portland police are here to "help" people. "To serve and protect," and all that. So one would think, in an emergency like this one, a trained police officer's first instinct would have been to grab an extinguisher. But no. Her first instinct was to do the thing that was trained into her: Grab a weapon.
It's just good she did not taser him, or shoot him to death, the way the Sandy police did to Fouad Kaady.
But do we really feel safe with our lives in these peoples' hands?
This points up the stark disconnect between myth and reality. The myth is, these cops are trained for emergency situations, and are there to help. The reality? They are only trained to subdue and control people, and the first instinct this officer had was to do just that. Grab a can of pepper spray.
She is not a "social work type." I am a social worker. Had I seen the man on fire, I would have grabbed a fucking fire extinguisher. She is a cop type. This is what they do.
Dousing a burning man with pepper spray and then insisting it did not harm is not "good social work skills," you will have to trust me on that.
Not that I support cop calling, but the public should be informed that any time a call to 911 is called, such as in this case, they should mentioned need for CIT... Crisis Intervention Team... Not all police are formally trained in this.
The purpose of the Crisis Intervention Team is "to use understanding and skills gained through specific training to identify and provide the most effective and compassionate response possible to police situations involving people in a mental health crisis."
Had this officer been part of CIT, she would have acted appropriately and calmly. Not that I at all excuse the fact that she used pepper spray (WTF??) however had she had such training this would have been avoided. The training is important, it's the same kind of training, (different name, same guidelines) as I have to take every 2 years for my own job (mental and developmental health related). I personally feel that this training should be required of all, however it is not.
An added thought... I wonder how long it took police to arrive, and with the carts across the street and some people around, why did he continue in flames until police got there? It's a question that I don't mean to bring any blame or finger pointing. That's not what I'm doing. It's just a thought that has played quite a few times in my head. Likely the shock of the incident cause the freeze phase of freeze, flight, or flight in crisis. It is a natural response. I don't know, and can't even say as I was at work during that time, nowhere close.
One of the two cops who tasered and then shot to death a naked, confused, dazed, accident victim because they were scared they might get bloody was... CIT trained.
They do what they get paid to do. That is, keep people in line. They are not the people to call in an emergency. They only make things worse. (How many times now, have we heard of people who call the police to come and "help" someone who is threatening suicide, only to have the cops show up and shoot the person to death?)
I agree that they are not the ones to call for "help" however people still do it, call 911. Even with my work, 911 is the very last resort to follow such protocol (as in severe danger to self and or others without the means to use approved intervention safely).
It's not fool proof, they're still cops, I know this. However holding them accountable, if even by those who called specified aid, witness to, and those who later become aware of, if/when abuse of or abusive restraint is used. The pressure increases and cannot be lowered back down to say it's ok.
I'm not sure if this represents my point, as it is late (and I'm very tired, probably shouldn't be responding) and I apologize if I come across argumentative, as that is not my intent. I see and agree with your point.
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