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Gas Price Protest!

Working to defeat the gas prices going up and up and up and screwing with our economy!
This is a call-out to all in the portland area to join me this sunday!! November 18th in forming a human chain around ALL your local gas stations... We are going to show these low-life's exactly what its like to lose a buck!! Our president doesnt give a shit, He's paid off by big oil and OPEC.. Anytime any congressmember cries out that they are going to inquire about the prices... it diappears into the darkness... They get paid off..

There was a HUGE protest in europe a while back... and the national (U.S.) news media was paid off not to air anything about it! Why?? Because they were paid off not to!! Our government does not want to see a repeat!! Itd embarass them!!

Now when G.W. gets out of office though there is a slight likelihood that we may get someone in office that gives a rats ass about US.. thats how come big-oil is siezing this last chance to steel our christmas bonus's (for those who get) Otherwise... good luck being able to afford getting to work!!

So again I say... lets show them what its like and make them PAY UP!

See you next sunday!

now wait a second 14.Nov.2007 05:40

Ecotopian Yeti

I hate to inform you about this, but the reason the price is going up is that we have hit peak oil on the global level. And I hate to say it .. let them go up. We need to localize our life styles by working near home, schooling near home, growing food in our bioregion (or even more locally), stop car society, end suburbia and so forth. Yes this is going to hurt consumeristic society (like a rock hitting a head). Higher oil prices will bring in Cascadian Independence whether the US empire likes it or not. Eventually we will have to maintain a sustainable economy and community that is ONLY LOCAL.

...losing a buck? WTF. 14.Nov.2007 06:15

Granny M

So much is lost already.
So much more will be lost so soon.
And how much blood and death does your rig cause?

Petro is done. Get used to it.

Ride a bike 14.Nov.2007 08:59


Clean, fun and healthy

Yes, protest gas prices 14.Nov.2007 10:32


I support this action, do you have a specific location in mind where others could meet up? Boycotts have proven to help lower prices, and there is no reason, whether you believe in peak oil or not, for us to have to pay such gouged prices. These gas prices are not due to depletion of oil reserves, they are simply due to greed by oil companies who continue to make skyrocketing profits at our expense. By all means, boycott them for at least one day, and make an effort to show these greedy fat cats where true power lies--with the people and their pocketbooks.

I'm with the Yeti on this one. 14.Nov.2007 11:08

Exile portlander_in_exile@tyahoo.com

the single best protest, is to park the car, forever. We're all going to have to anyway, we might as well do it by choice. Start planning now. I know, I know, I've heard all the different whines in relation to this topic (I live to far from work, I've got kids, I am too fat, what about rain). Sorry, I don't buy it. All of these can be taken care of, once you've made the decision. If you need help learning, it's available.


your excuses feed the evil that grips our country, and brings suffering to cascadia.

Stop Using ! 14.Nov.2007 11:52

former addict

We are on the verge of an environmental catastrophe caused by you dumbasses who insist on low gas prices. Wake up.

The other truth movement 14.Nov.2007 13:25



Suppression of Energy Technologies
This article by Christopher Walter

Time magazine August 17 July 1995 (p.46) are rounding up the future technologies that are going to severely change the world as we know it.

They correctly point out that a change in the usage of energy would have a massive impact, but then promise "The first company to design an affordable car that doesn't foul the atmosphere will race past it's competitors."

Not only are they totally wrong, but they're probably lying. The simple fact is the technology has been with us for most of this past century, it's just that it would free us from the enslavement by oil companies, and government, to allow us to utilize it.

My story began late one night driving home listening to talk back radio, when somebody piped up that they'd been working on a solar-powered car out at the local airport, and it was ready to go and as cheap and as safe as an average family car - except that you would only need about five dollars worth of fuel per year to get it started. The startled D. J. then asked when were we likely to see it in the market place, and the engineer coolly replied "probably never, I'd say the oil companies will buy us out in a flash." I nearly crashed my car- what on earth was going on here? The next day I rang the airport to find out who was doing the testing only to find out from an assertive voice, "there are no automobiles being tested here and there never has been." Fine, the dead end proved to be the spark of determination to send me on my investigative way.

The next encounter was about a year later involving a friend who knew a guy who invented a lawn mower that ran on water. Skeptical but excited, I said I wanted to meet the man and she came back a few days later quite upset to find he'd recently opened his front door to a shot gun blast in the face, the dead inventor had been solidly drinking for the past six months since he came home with a million or so dollars and word to the family that he didn't want to discuss his engines again. O.K. - that one seemed weird, maybe he was some dodgy businessman or something. I still needed more.

More came in the form of an article in the Melbourne Age (13/7/93 p.5)
introducing the "ozone safe induction" system, a little black box that was added to your engine that cut fuel usage by up to two-thirds with a corresponding reduction in pollution.

Oz Smart Technologies was the name of the firm, and Mike Holland the inventor that I talked to about his supposed breakthrough. "Yeah, the U.S. military just flew out some Generals and stuff and they want to buy it, and Nissan just offered me five million dollars but I want to develop it in Australia." Yeah but, does it work? Apparently it did, the E.P.A. told him off the record, that it was the best design of it's kind they'd ever seen, along with a bunch of techies from Swinburne University who'd done all the testing, but the media continued to consider the device a bit of a hoax and the company simply does not exist anymore - yep they just disappeared (again).

My research today tells me that Mike Holland's invention was probably of the "Improved fuel efficiency" variety simply burning fuel in a more efficient manner, nothing terribly difficult. Other well known developments are of the "car running on water" kind, usually involving electrical current running through the water to extract and then burn the hydrogen. Some of the more interesting involve the use of magnets, sometimes tuned to exact frequencies that take energy from the ambient atmosphere.

Since meeting Mike Holland I have managed to collect quite a list of energy inventions that have somehow avoided being utilized in the market place. You may not believe they all work, but it would be very difficult to claim that all of them are fabrications, still the evidence is here - you decide yourself.

Hydrogen Power

Yul Brown - from Sydney Australia developed a method of extracting hydrogen from water in 1978 and utilizing it as a car fuel and fuel for cutting steel and brazing. After much publicity (see The Bulletin (Aust) Aug 22, 1989) he had managed to raise over 2 million dollars.... UCSA offers this technology for cutting and brazing steel.

See Stanley Meyer's Water Powered Car:
Dennis Lee and Stanley Meyers drove together in Stanley's water powered car from California to New York using about 28 gallons of Water. Stanly was subsequently conscripted to work for the Pentagon and then was murdered by poison hoisting a toast to success powering Army Tanks using the hydrogen in water.

See Stanley Meyer's Water Powered Car

Broadband Dialup

Francisco Pacheco - an inventor from Bolivia created the "Pacheco Bi-Polar Auto electric Hydrogen Generator" (US PAT #5,089,107) which separates hydrogen from seawater. He has built successful prototypes that have fueled a car, a motorcycle, a lawn mower, a torch, a boat, and most recently in 1990 he energized an entire home in West Milford. After many conferences (including U.N.) and public exhibitions proving the inventions worth, the wider community is still unable to utilize this technology.

Edward Estevel - from Spain developed a classic 'water to auto engine' system in the late 1960's extracting the hydrogen out of water to use as fuel. This system was highly heralded, then sank among other such 'high hope' hydrogen systems amid rumors of foul play.

Sam Leach - of Los Angeles developed a revolutionary hydrogen extraction process during the mid seventies. The unit easily extracted free hydrogen from water and was small enough to fit under the hood of automobiles. In 1976 two independent labs in LA tested this generator with perfect results. Mr. M.J. Mirkin who began the Budget car rental system purchased the rights to the device from the inventor who was said to be very concerned about his personal security.

Rodger Billings - of Provo, Utah headed a group of inventors that developed a system converting ordinary cars to run on Hydrogen. Instead of using heavy hydrogen tanks, he used metal alloys called Hydrides, to store vast amounts of hydrogen. When hot exhaust gases passed through these Hydride containers it released the gas to burn in the standard engines. Billings estimated the conversion would cost around US$500 and greatly improve fuel consumption.

Archie Blue - an inventor from Christchurch, New Zealand developed a car that runs purely on water by the extraction of hydrogen. An alleged offer of 500 million dollars from "Arab interests" was not enough to convince him to sell but never-the-less he has been unable to take his engine to the market place.

Electric Engines

Wayne Henthron - from Los Angeles built an "Electrometric Auto" in 1976 that managed to regenerate its own electricity. In normal stop and go driving it gave several hundred miles of service between recharges. The system worked by the wiring of the batteries to act as capacitors once the car was moving along with four standard auto alternators acting to keep the batteries charged. With little official interest in his system the inventor resolved to make the car available to the public to do so, is now involved with the World Federation of Science and Engineering - 15532 Computer Lane, Huntington Beach, CA, 92649.

Joseph R. Zubris - developed in 1969 an electric car circuit design (US PAT #3,809,978) that he estimated cost him $100 a year to operate. Using an old ten horse electric truck motor, he worked out a unique system to get peak performance from his old 1961 Mercury engine that he ran from this power plant. The device actually cut energy drain on electric car starting by 75%, and by weakening excitation after getting started, produced a 100% mileage gain over conventional electric motors. The inventor was shocked to find the lack of reaction from larger business interests, and so in the early seventies began selling licenses to interested smaller concerns for $500. Last known address was Zubris Electrical Company, 1320 Dorchester Ave, Boston, Ma, 02122.

Richard Diggs - developed at an inventors workshop (I.W. international) his "Liquid Electricity Engine" that he believed could power a large truck for 25,000 miles from a single portable unit of his electrical fuel. Liquid electricity violated a number of the well known physical laws that the inventor pointed out. The inventor was also aware of the profound impact the invention could have upon the world's economy - if it could be developed.

B. Von Platen - a 65 year old Swedish inventor made a major breakthrough in the field of Thermo-electric engines with his "Hot and Cold Engine" - based on the fact that wires of different metals produce electricity if they are joined and heated, the inventors secret breakthrough is said to give more than 30% more efficiency than regular motors, and with a radioactive isotope for power (hmmm?!) it could be completely free from fossil fuels.
Volvo of Sweden bought the rights to this in 1975.

Steam Engines

Oliver Yunick - developed a super efficient steam engine in 1970 (Pop.Sci. Dec.1970) able to compete admirably with combustion engines. DuPont Laboratories - built one of the most advanced steam engines in late 1971 using a recyclable fluid of the freon family. It is assumed to contain no need for an external condenser, valves, or tubes. (Pop.Sci.Jan 1972)

William Bolon - from Rialto, California, developed an unusual steam engine design in 1971, that was said to get up to 50 miles to the gallon. The engine used only 17 moving parts and weighed less than 50 pounds and eliminated the usual transmission and drive train in an automatic. After much publicity, the inventors factory was fire bombed with damages totaling $600,000 . Letters to the Whitehouse were ignored so the inventor finally gave up and let Indonesian interests have the design.

Air Power

Roy J. Meyers - from LA built an air powered car in 1931. (air has been used for years to power localized underground mine engines) Myers, an engineer, built a 114lb, 6 cylinder radial air engine that produced over 180 HP. Newspaper articles at the time reported that the vehicle could cruise several hundred miles at low speeds.

Vittorio Sorgato - of Milan, Italy also created a very impressive air powered vehicle in the 70's using compressed air stored as a liquid. After a great deal of initial interest from Italian sources his invention is now all but forgotten.

Robert Alexander - from Montebello, Ca. spent 45 days and around $500 to put together a car (US PAT #3913004) based on a small 7/8ths 12 v-motor that provided the initial power. Once going, a hydraulic and air system took over and recharged the small electric energy drain. The inventor and his partner were determined that the auto industry would not bury their "super power" system. To no avail.

Joseph P Troyan - designed an air powered flywheel that could propel an automobile for 2c a mile. Using a principle of "ratio amplification of motion" in a closed system, the Troyan motor (US PAT #040011) was easily attached to electric generators for pollution-free variable power systems.

David McClintock - created his free energy device known as the "McClintock Air Motor" (US PAT #2,982,26100) which is a cross between a diesel engine with three cylinders with a compression ratio of 27 to 1, and a rotary engine with solar and plenary gears. It burns no fuel, but becomes self-running by driving it's own air compressor.

Magnetic Energy

John W. Keeley - developed a car in the 1920's using principles similar to Nikola Tesla's, drawing harmonic magnetic energies from the planet itself. The electric car ran from high frequency electricity that was received when he simply broadcast the re-radiated atmospheric energy from a unit on his house roof. GM and the other Detroit oil "powers" offered the inventor 35 million dollars which was turned down when they would not guarantee to market the engine. Henry Ford - later bought and successfully shelved the invention. John W Kelley Died in the later part of the 1890's from pneumonia. We was not able to perfect his vibratory motor for the auto in the 1920's. When he died most of his research notes and motors disappeared never to be seen again. Chris Sproles

Harold Adams - of Lake Isabella, California, worked out a motor thought to be similar to Keeley's. It was demonstrated for many persons, including Naval scientists around the late 1940's before it too "disappeared" from our history.

Dr Keith E. Kenyon - of Van Nuys, California discovered a discrepancy in long accepted laws relating to electric motor magnets, and so built a radically different motor that could theoretically run a car on a very small amount of electrical current. When demonstrated to physicists and engineers in 1976 those present admitted that it worked remarkably well but because it was beyond the 'accepted' laws of physics they chose to ignore it.

Bob Teal - of Madison, Florida was a retired electronics engineer when he invented his Magna-Pulsion Engine which ran by means of six tiny electromagnets and a secret timing device. Requiring no fuel, the engine emitted no gases. It was so simple in design it required very little maintenance and a small motorcycle battery was enough power to get it started. The engine has been met with little else but skepticism.

Lester J. Hendershot - built his Hendershot Generator in the late 1920's largely through trial and error. He wove together a number of flat coils of wire and placed stainless steel rings, sticks of carbon and permanent magnets in various positions as an experiment. To his surprise it actually produced current. The generator raised considerable attention at the time.

Howard Johnson - developed a motor that's power is generated purely by
magnetism. It took six years of legal hassles to patent his design (US PAT #4,151,431) - more information is available from the "Permanent Magnet Research Institute" P.O. Box 199, Blacksburg, Virginia 24063. He is currently offering licensing rights.

Edwin V. Gray - developed in the early seventies an engine that uses no fuel and produces no waste, The engine that runs itself is U.S. Pat #3,890,548.

Petroleum Additives

Guido Franch - from Michigan U.S.A. began demonstrating in the mid seventies his "water-to-gas miracle" a fuel he created by adding to water a small quantity of "conversion powder" which was easily processed from coal. He claimed it could be processed for a few cents per gallon if mass produced. The fuel was tested by Chemists at Havoline Chemical of Michigan and the local University, and both concluded it worked more efficiently than gasoline. Franch continued to put on demonstrations for years but said the auto manufacturers, Government, and private companies just weren't interested in his revolutionary fuel.

Dr Alfred R. Globus - working for United International Research developed a Hydro-fuel mixture around the mid-seventies. The fuel was a mixture of 45% gasoline, 50% or more of water, and small percentages of United's "Hydrelate" which acted as a bonding agent. It was estimated that a hundred million gallons of fuel could be saved per day if this fuel were utilized but alas nobody seemed interested.

John Andrews - a Portuguese chemist who in 1974 developed a fuel additive that enabled ordinary gasoline to be mixed with water reducing fuel costs down to 2c a gallon. After successfully demonstrating the substance, impressed Navy officials when going to negotiate for the formula found the inventor missing and his lab ransacked.

Water and Alcohol Motor - Jean Chambrin, an engineer in Paris ran his private cars on a mixture of denatured alcohol and water. The inventor / mechanical engineer claimed his motor design could be mass produced at a fraction of the cost of present engines. He received nothing but publicity that led him to take great precautions in regard to his personnel security.

Mavrin D. Martin - from the University of Arizona developed in 1977 a "fuel reformer" catalytic reactor that was estimated to double mileage. The device was designed to cut exhaust emissions by mixing water with Hydro-carbon fuels to produce an efficient Hydrogen, Methane, Carbon-Monoxide fuel.

Improving Fuel Efficiency

Edward La Force - from Vermont U.S.A. designed with his brother Robert, a highly efficient engine that burnt all the usually wasted heavier gasoline molecules. The 'Los Angeles Examiner' (Dec. 29, 1974) reported that the cams, timing and so on were altered on stock Detroit engines. These modifications not only eliminated most of the pollution from the motor but by completely burning all the fuel, the mileage was usually doubled. After much publicity the US EPA examined the cars and found the motor designs were not good enough. Few people believed the EPA including a number of Senators who brought up the matter in a Congressional hearing in March 1975. The result was still silence.

Eric Cottell - was one of the pioneers of ultrasonic fuel systems. This involved using sonic transducers to 'vibrate' existing fuels down to much smaller particles, making it burn up to 20% more efficiently. Cottell then went on to discover that super fine S-ionized water could be mixed perfectly with up to 70% oil or gas in these systems, this was followed by much publicity (e.g. Newsweek, June 17,1974) and then, once again - silence.

L. Mills. Beam - had his super-mileage carburetor bought out in the 1920's. In the late 60's he worked out a catalytic vegetable compound that produced the same super mileage results. In principle it was nothing more than a method of using the hot exhaust gases of an engine to vaporize the liquid gas being burned. By rearranging the molecules of gas and diesel, he was able to triple mileage rates, while obtaining better combustion, mileage and emission control. He was refused and rejected by U.S. State and Federal Air Pollution and Environmental Pollution agencies and was finally forced to sell his formula abroad in the mid-seventies just to survive.

John W. Gulley - of Gratz Kentucky managed 115 mpg from his 8 cylinder Buick using a similar vaporizing method as that employed by L.M. Beam. "Detroit interests" bought and suppressed the device in 1950.

SHELL research of London - produced a 'Vapipe' unit in the early seventies that also vaporized the petroleum at around 40 degrees centigrade, and used a sophisticated pressure loss reduction system, but alas was not marketed because it did not meet Federal emission standards.

Russell Bourke - designed an engine in 1932 with only two moving parts. He connected two pistons to a refined "Scotch Yoke" crankshaft and came up with an engine that was superior in most respects to any competitive engine. His design burned any cheap carbon based fuel and delivered great mileage and performance. Article after article was published acclaiming his engine but once again, to no avail. "The Bourke Engine Documentary" is the revealing book the inventor assembled just before his death.

New Fuels

Clayton J. Querles - from Lucerne Valley, California took a 10,000 mile trip across the country in his 1949 Buick on $10 worth of carbide by building a simple carbide generator which worked on the order of a miners lamp. He claimed that half a pound of acetylene pressure was sufficient to keep his car running, but because acetylene was dangerous, he put a safety valve on his generator and ran the outlet gas through water to ensure there would be no 'blow back'. The inventor also toyed successfully with methods of fuel vaporization. (see Sun-Telegram 11/2/74.)

Joseph Papp - built the highly regarded Papp engine in the 60's that could run on a 15 cents an hour secret combination of expandable gases. Instead of burning fuel, this engine used electricity to expand the gas in hermetically sealed cylinders. The first prototype was a simple ninety horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. The idea has gotten nowhere amid accusations of suppression by the media.


G.A. Moore. - one of the most productive inventors of carburetors, he held some 17,000 patents of which 250 were related to the automobile and it's carburetion. Industry today relies on his air brakes and fuel injection systems, it continues to completely ignore his systems for reducing pollution, gaining more mileage and improving overall engine efficiency. More info from "The Works of George Arlington Moore" published by the Madison Company. (See US PAT #'s 1,633,791 to 2,123,485 for 17 interesting developments.)

Joseph Bascle - created the Bascle carburetor in the mid 50's. The carburetor raised mileage by 25% and reduced pollution by 45%. It's inventor, a well known Baton Rouge researcher remobilized every carburetor in the local Yellow Cab fleet, shortly after his arrival there.

Kendig Carburetors - were originally hand made for racing cars by a small group of mechanics in Los Angeles in the early seventies under the title of Variable Venture Carburetors. Eventually a young college student bought one of their less sophisticated prototypes for his old Mercury "gas hog", when he entered it in a Californian air pollution run - he won easily - not only did the carburetor reduce pollution, it gave almost twice the mileage. Within a week the student was told to remove the carburetor as it was not approved by the Air Resources Board. The simpler Kendig model was due for production in 1975 but has yet to be produced.

C.N. Pogue - from Winnipeg, Canada, developed a carburetor (US PAT# 2,026,789) in the late 1930's that used superheated steam in it's system and managed at least 200 miles per gallon. Much local interest, including threats from professional thieves, was not enough publicity to see this invention through to the market place.

John R. Fish - developed his "Fish" carburetor in the early 1940's that was tested by Ford who admitted that the invention was a third more efficient than theirs. The design can also be easily switched to alcohol. Nevertheless the inventor was hindered from manufacture and distribution in almost every possible way, he once even resorted to selling by mail order, only to be stopped by the Post Office. The device can be currently bought from "Fuel systems of America" Box 9333, Tacoma, Washington 98401 - U.S. ph:(206) 922-2228. (US PAT's 2,214,273 and 2,236,595 and 2,775,818.)

The Dresserator - was created around the early 70's in Santa Ana, California by Lester Berriman. It was based on a super-accurate mixture control using greatly enhanced airflow, and could run a car on up to a 22-to-1 fuel mixture. Test cars passed the pollution control standards with ease and managed up to an 18% mileage gain. Although Holley Carburetor and Ford signed agreements to manufacture the design in 1974, nothing has been heard of since.

Mark J. Meierbachtol - from San Bernardino, California patented a carburetor ( U.S. Patent # 3,432,281 March, 11, 69) that managed significantly greater mileage than was usual.

Much of this list is borrowed heavily from the book SUPPRESSED INVENTIONS AND OTHER DISCOVERIES by Brian O'Leary, Christopher Bird, Jeanne Manning, and Barry Lynes, Auckland Institute of Technology Press, Private bag 92006, Auckland, New Zealand. ISBN No 0-9583334-7-
5. Along with references noted.

This article by Christopher Walter

Order Public Awareness Kit Here


Nice articles. Doesn't mean a thing. 14.Nov.2007 20:33

Exile portlander_in_exile@tyahoo.com

There is no way to "out tech" this problem, period. We've all gone through this before, time and time again.

the problem with energy comes in transporting it. When you use portable electronic devices, the batteries have a limited lifespan, and are full of toxic, exotic materials. also very inefficiant. Alternative fuels, don't even get me started. Ethenol, requires more energy to make, than it creates, also depletes farmland at an exponential rate. I'd rather not have to decide between food, and transportation.

Exotic engine systems (water powered, hydrogen) well, hydrogen is more often derived from petrochemicals. that's why there often referred to as "Hydrocarbons". getting hydrogen from water requires vast amounts of electricity, that often comes from coal, or natural gas. The water powered engine is not commercially viable, and uses unproven technologies. Time to market, would be fatal, and be blocked by big oil at every turn. Can you imagine, asking everyone in the united states to "re-purchase" and automobile? change all the fuel stations to an alternative fuel? NONE of this will ever happen, end of discussion. Using a bicycle is something that each and every one of us can do NOW.

Please, please, stop making excuses. Bicycling solves dozens of problems. everything from deaths from automobile accidents, pollution, oil wars, economic hardship, social breakdowns in neighborhoods, rampant obesity, and social awareness.

Remember, every time you purchase fuel, 88% of that funding leaves our local economy immediately, never to return.

a real protest to demonstrate alternatives and shock people that way 14.Nov.2007 23:11


quote from a comment:

"When you use portable electronic devices, the batteries have a limited lifespan, and are full of toxic, exotic materials. also very inefficiant. [sic, that's "inefficient".] Alternative fuels, don't even get me started. Ethenol, requires more energy to make, than it creates, also depletes farmland at an exponential rate. I'd rather not have to decide between food, and transportation. Exotic engine systems (water powered, hydrogen) well, hydrogen is more often derived from petrochemicals."

No on the batteries that are 'required' to be toxic. Update your science.


No on the requirement of hydrogen being based on petrochemicals. I don't know where you got that idea.


AND a true protest as 'energy truther' above noted would be to hold public meetings where these technologies are constructed under the eyes of the public and within view of a major gas station. Money could be solicited either for local investment in making them, for auctioning off the first model, or for a raffle ticket to win it.

If you are really serious about 'material activism' consider these ideas and start this organization in your area:

Institutionalizing Watershed Specific User-Producer Relationships

How do we get watershed-optimal technologies and material choice uses institutionalized?


So, what if the project is technology and material change toward sustainability?

In Misa's terms, that would indicate, in a bioregional state model of technological development and material choice issues, a framework that would institute user/consumer-producer relationships that are multicentered, decentralized, and direct-consumer interaction based.

Moreover, applying the watershed metric layer, and applying this to all commodity choices at once, this means that such user-producer relationships will be occurring across all 54 optimally and simultaneously informing each other, instead of only occurring in isolated parallel user-producer relationships in one area (like building materials above, steel is the example). It will be occurring in a cross-referenced framework, where, similar to ecological modernization, the outputs or "temporary wastes" of one material choice use can be fitted easily into another material choice use.


Quoting above, sustainability itself thus is a "a sensible, feasible public policy... to promote, monitor, and ensure the vigorous user-producer interactions that are essential for technical change linked to changing user requirements" toward a goal of economic durability, ecological security, and health optimalization for each watershed. Each of these three goal factors--economic durability, ecological security, and health optimalization--should be the criteria for watershed based user/consumers in their relations with producers in their area.


Some suggestions for institutionalizing this to optimize for each watershed are as follows:


Encouraging social disruption and collapse passively isn't going to get you to a green world, Yeti. A collapse is not a sustainable society. Actually, it will mean an unsustainable military ruled society is maintained--just for a smaller number of people than the small number it already serves. We require more localized technological and material optimality everywhere instead of dependence on the raw material regimes of oil and oil engines (for a start).

Only constructive work will get a green sustainable world.


you hold the meeting, and I'll be there. 15.Nov.2007 22:20

exile portlander_in_exile@tyahoo.com

I would be completely open to the idea of a wonderful world of free, clean, amazing perpetual motion devices. I just know enough about the physical properties of matter and energy (perhaps my spelling could use a little work) to have a difficult time believing it. People once said that Ethanol was going to save us all. That proved to be inaccurate. and yes, you can get hydrogen from seawater, but it requires much more energy that breaking down hydrocarbons for the extraction of hydrogen.

simple, when you change energy from one form to another, some is lost. It's a well known law of physics.

besides, there is no real need for any of these. just eliminate the privately own automobile, problem solved. many other problems will be solved as well.

Bicycles are a technology that exists today, that is proven, inexpensive, reliable and doesn't require bringing any new technology to market.

Besides. 15.Nov.2007 22:32

exile portlander_in_exile@tyahoo.com

for twenty years, we've heard how "this new technology" will finally make gasoline obsolete. It simply won't happen, until it's too late. They even made a car that ran on uranium once, in the hopes that it would solve the fuel problem.

The Nickel metal hydride battery technology does indeed exist. The blog post you mentioned was inaccurate, as the batteries still have a lifespan, it's just much longer than that of previous batteries. Just think, you could get almost enough of them to power your car, provided you could afford them


you're just wasting the time remaining. rather than fucking around in the middle east (now up to $1.5 trillion dollars), we could be rebuilding the infrastructure for the post-car world.

zero point batteries with perpetual lifespans 18.Nov.2007 01:24


"as the batteries still have a lifespan"

Acually, the link that is interesting is the batteries of the Canadian inventor Hutchinson--made from common rocks and crystals cooked together that presumably pull power generation out of the ether/zero point field. They are pulling it from somewhere...Look it up.