portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article reposts global

9.11 investigation | imperialism & war

Air America/Thom Hartman 9/11 Truth Debate: Kevin Ryan vs. Michael Shermer MP3

MP3 file of debate is now available.
 http://www.911blogger.com/node/12441
After working with my freeware Audacity wave editor ( http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows) all afternoon, I've managed to compile a relatively complete audio version of the debate (from hours 2&3) that is generally commercial-free.

Here is the Putfile link:
 http://media.putfile.com/Commercial-Free-Thom-Hartman-911-Debate-Ryan-vs-Shermermp3

In case you have trouble downloading it from there (as opposed to just listening to it) you can get the full 41.38 MB MP3 file at the following (somewhat slow) link:
 link to www.freefilehosting.ws

Excellent interview 09.Nov.2007 17:44

StevetheGreen

Kevin Ryan utterly decimates Shermer in the small amount of time that Hartman allows.

Shermer accomplishes the usual "bait and switch" techniques that are always employed by the self proclaimed debunkers by refusing to address the points Ryan made while he instead reverts to the "detonation" card like Pavlov's dog whenever Ryan makes a valid point.

Whether it was why the 9/11 commission report failed to address the key aspects of 9/11, or why the Pentagon won't release surveillance tapes, or how hundreds of people were able to keep a giant conspiracy secret, Shermer changes the subject to something he feels more confident with. But any astute listener can see how Kevin Ryan rips him apart methodically and completely on every point he was allowed time for.

Kevin Ryan never allowed the ridiculous time constraints or the ridiculous attempts by Shermer to sidestep the points he made to bother him. He just matter of factly goes about illustrating that when multiple hypothesis are introduced, we must examine the evidence available to make reasonable decisions about what probably did and didn't happen.

Hartman's usual cowardly "agnostic" stance seemed silly when Ryan was done, but I'm not sure that Hartman even realizes it.

A Better Link 10.Nov.2007 06:49

robert


Important for all 9/11 truthers to understand 10.Nov.2007 07:59

StevetheGreen

As I listened to Kevin Ryan calmly and methodically deal with the predictable strawmen and intellectually dishonest arguments (that seem to be the weapon of choice for the self proclaimed 9/11 conspiracy debunkers), it occurred to me that the way in which he approached this debate should be held as an example for all who consider themselves to be part of the 9/11 truth movement. Far too often I hear 9/11 truthers get into these nonsensical arugments that require them to speculate and that detracts from the real issues and the evidence at hand. In other words, it plays right into the hands of those who want to stifle complete honest debate on this issue.

Shermer seemed to be shocked that Ryan did not take the bait and launch into a bunch of speculation about things he could not possibly know. Ryan admitted up front that we do not know the specifics of what happened or the details of how each aspect of 9/11 was engineered. Ryan admitted up front that he does not know the extent to which US agenices or rogue individuals within the US government were involved. But he explained in detail "what we do know" and the evidence "we do have" and how that relates to our choice of the various common hypothesis.

Ryan also pointed out how the term "conspiracy" has been perverted into a derogatory term that seeks to diminish the evidence at hand. Regardless of what happened on 9/11 or who was involved and at what level, there was a conspiracy.
The only task is for people to decide which "hypothesis" most accurately reflects the available evidence.

Sheremer was not sure how to respond and ended up regurgitating statements against points Ryan was not attempting to make. It was obvious that Sheremer was waiting for the "loose change" type of responses and when Ryan refused to do that he was lost as to how to respond.

This is extremely important to anyone who makes it their business to discuss this complicated event with friends, family, and strangers.