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9.11 investigation | imperialism & war

If you believe the official story behind 9-11, why?

I'm genuinely interested to know.
Do you believe that Osama bin Laden was the mastermind behind the events of 9-11-2001, and nobody inside our government had any hand in facilitating these events? If so, have you ever asked yourself why? Is it just too "far out" to believe the media could be suppressing important questions and facts? Is it just too impossible to fathom that anyone "on the inside" could be merciless enough to contribute to the mass murder of thousands of Americans and yet be powerful enough to cover it up? (If so, what of the case that was made to congress about what the Bush Administration *knew* to be false evidence about Saddam Hussein seeking material to make nuclear weapons, which led directly to an invasion which has claimed thousands upon thousands of lives?)

I really want to know. Why does anyone believe the official story? Do they refuse to examine any alternative belief? Are they afraid to? After years of being constantly exposed to new revelations that the Bush administration has been lying to us, why do so many seem to cover their ears when intelligent, well-informed people insist they have evidence that the "official story" is yet another lie?

If you fall into this category, and you have looked at the unbiased facts, please tell me why you think 9-11 truthers like myself are wrong, misguided or worse. If you haven't looked at any alternative views, why not? (here's a good article right here:  http://wtc7.net/articles/kimball/thirdskyscraper.html and here are some video clips you can see for yourself and make your own judgements about:  http://wtc7.net/articles/kimball/thirdskyscraper.html and here are some video clips you can see for yourself and make your own judgements about:  link to portland.indymedia.org )

I'm wondering if people just don't think this is important or relevent to their everyday lives. I want anyone who thinks this way to examine this belief, if only for a few minutes. This IS an important issue. People are dying and suffering terribly over this. If what we've been told about 9-11 is a lie, where does that leave us?

Can you handle the truth?

homepage: homepage: http://jpaulson.blogspot.com


9/11 gives Bush to much credit (and brains)... 11.Oct.2007 20:18

PeeWee

..and to this date no one in our government has come forward and admitted to their involvement. I saw the planes crash into the twin towers and on October 30, 2004, Bin Laden said he had personally directed the 19 hijackers. That's enough for me. You're probably right, I don't find this important.

Not important 11.Oct.2007 20:40

Herman

What is not important is the march toward tyranny that is driven by the 9/11 drumbeat. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were "justified" by 9/11. Neither would have happened without 9/11. Now we are heading to war with Iran because of "terrorism."

The converse of saying that Bush is too stupid to have pulled off 9/11 is refusing to admit we have been fooled. Our arrogance and egotism will be our downfall, not Bush's. 9/11 gave the neocons everything they wanted. Somebody was not stupid.

Jody...thanks, and helluva job at Pelosi's!! 11.Oct.2007 23:25

Styve

I loved the Buddhas story, knowing that you were on the front lines! Huge question you are asking re 911, and I would recommend you look to more incremental approaches, too. Asking the mega-question of why people believe, or don't believe the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT) leaves you open to too many angles of obfuscationary responses, and gives responders the easy default that the government is good, and wouldn't use such a tragedy as governments have used false flag incidents in the past.

I have a new image to share, and I hope that San Francisco will send good vibes to Portland as we go through this DHS shit next week. I would like to share a letter that I am proposing to send to City Council here, and invite others to send email and to call and demand the stop to the ludicrous experimentation on Portland!! We can still stop this in the middle of the drill, and there is no reason to give up once it starts Monday morning!!

Best of vibes to SF, complete with a SF protest pic, or two!!

Styve

Oops...forgot to include the note to local politicians~~ 11.Oct.2007 23:40

Styve

Any constructive recs would be appreciated, but I would hope that people would email them directl, with OUTRAGE!! Here is their contact info...

Sam Adams <  commissionersam@ci.portland.or.us>, 503-823-1120
Erik Sten <  info@erikforportland.com>, 503-823-3589
Dan Saltzman <  dsaltzman@ci.portland.or.us>, 503-823-4151
Randy Leonard <  randy@ci.portland.or.us>, 503-823-3001
Mayor Potter <  mayorpotter@ci.portland.or.us> 503-823-4120
--------------------------------------
subject line: Why so quiet about Top Off and Vigilant Shield!!


Please read this important letter to the editor of the Oregonian, and consider why you have let the residents of Portland down.

"Where is the information for Citizens?" | Oregon Truth Alliance
 http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/?q=node/295


Can we have your cell numbers to call if something goes wrong, or we see some cop taser random people, or are we supposed to just grin and bear it in the name of all the valuable information you will glean...in maybe 3 years time?!  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366285.shtml

What about the excessive noise that may come from the extensive air surveillance and Air Force coverage during the entirety of next week...are you going to somehow compensate people for lost sleep, or lost work productivity because of the state of fear that you are complicit of inflicting on Portland? I trust you have been reading Indymedia to see what people think of the decision to let the corrupt DHS run a drill like this on Portland?!  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366347.shtml

Shame on you all and I hope this comes back to bite you all in the ass. That money you are taking in from DHS will be small change compared to the amount the city may wind up paying to settle the lawsuits lodged against local government for allowing such disturbing, disruptive fearmongering by the federal government, and that is if everything goes well. Just imagine if people are seriously injured, suffer stress-related health problems, or die as result of this foolishness...none of you will work in government ever again?!

Styve

open secret 12.Oct.2007 00:52

911 2b awareness

is the 911 coup - in the corridors of power the world over, it's an open secret - giving George Bush too much credit is as foolish as buying into the incompetence/blowback cover - neither gets you closer to the truth - most modern terror is orchestrated to manipulate - who's calling the shots? Same old, same old...global finance oligarchs - now known as the New World Oligarchy. Who exactly are they and their networks...how do they work? Anyone able to accurately answer those questions knows too much.

So, if they know, why doesn't Congress do something? Aren't they imune. That's worth thinking about. Just imagine for a moment the utter global chaos that would ensue if the POTUS, his entire admin., plus numerous private contractors were charged with treason, many found guilty, the whole of the US government thrown into constitutional crisis and the US dollar collapsed to a minor fraction of its value. Now imagine what could stop that before it really got rolling. Another round of Anthrax letters might dampen the urge. Too far fetched? Yeah, that and the ability of Jack Ruby to presumably gun down the patsy Oswald in the basement of the Dallas Police Department.

I said, "presumably." Now let's go here for a moment to put that in context - http://www.rense.com/general73/ruby.htm:

Bob Jackson, former Dallas Times Herald photographer, made public for the first time that there was "not a speck of blood anywhere" on the body or at the crime scene when Jack Ruby supposedly shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jackson was on assignment for the Dallas paper on the morning of Nov. 24, 1963, when Oswald was being transferred from his holding cell and snapped the picture "seen around the world," a Pulitzer Prize winning photo of Oswald grimacing with Jack Ruby fully visible with pistol in hand, shooting Oswald. After 43 years, Jackson told listeners of Greg Szymanski's radio show, The Investigative Journal, he witnessed no blood on Oswald after the shooting, as well as "not a speck of blood" at the crime scene leading all the way to when Oswald was put in the ambulance.

"I sure did think it was strange not to see any blood whatsoever," said Jackson, whose award-winning photo was later published first on the Times Herald front page and then in the Saturday Evening Post.

"I stayed on the scene well after Oswald was taken away in the ambulance and I never did see any blood, not one drop."

Jackson's startling revelation adds fuel to the fire of researchers who claimed Oswald was never shot by Ruby, but later killed by CIA operatives in the ambulance after Oswald was sedated against his will.

Jackson's testimony, never before released in the American media, backs up other researchers who claim Oswald and Ruby faked the shooting as a part of an undercover operation designed to eventually eliminate Oswald's knowledge of the real JKF assassination team as well as his part played as the government's patsy.

"Oswald probably was told to fake the shooting and then was double crossed by Cia operatives who killed him in the ambulance in order to eliminate any loose ends in the Kennedy assassination," said one researcher who claims Oswald was used as a patsy. Now, if you don't think this was an open secret that none dare put their mouth on...well, you haven't lived long enough. Just like the Kennedy Assassination, the 911 coup d'?tat is known the world over, but none with the power nor any who might gain by trying to take it to prime time have the ambition or the daring to do so...still a lot of that government-issue Anthrax out there - more on which than most would care to speculate.

government admits their involvement 12.Oct.2007 09:21

.

To PeeWee

..and to this date no one in our government has come forward and admitted to their involvement. I saw the planes crash into the twin towers and on October 30, 2004, Bin Laden said he had personally directed the 19 hijackers. That's enough for me. You're probably right, I don't find this important.

--------------------------

They admit involvement by not allowing an investigation, then assigning henry kissinger to be in charge. They admit involvement by releasing no tapes that show supposed plane slamming into pentagon.

They admit involvement by signing project for a new american century.

One person in a branch of the service admitted to working out the scenario years ago. He's retired. A kind of false flag plan. How could terrorists bring down america. He wrote a scenario that pretty much gave whomever gave the go ahead the ideas of slamming planes into various american strategic places like wtc.

They admit it by suppressing information like the downing street memos. By ok'ing
press conglomeration that touts the fascist party line.

P.S. Would you as a politician admit that it was within your power to whistleblow to save 3000 people. What would happen to you if you did.

Cheers, Jody 12.Oct.2007 16:52

la tia julia

Why did they pick September 11th? And I don't mean the 'they' outsiders, the insiders.
Because they want to scare those of us that know the real history. September the 11th 1974(?) was the coup on Chile. They bombed the white house, kidnapped and tortured thosuasnds of people, and left a country so terrified that now they will follow whomever seems reasonable, i.e., a neo-liberal who will support US foreign policy.
There were missing people in Chile and at Ground Zero, and if you can see through the veil you know that they are not very different. Killed by the U.S.
Why would we murder 3,000 of our own? We do it all of the time!

What makes me grieve is to look a round me and see how far we are from any kind of uprising. We have no unity. No unions. life here is so expensive and there is no more safety net, most people do not even have the luxury to sit back and ponder an uprising.
But we have got to do something.

This issue needs to be turned around! 12.Oct.2007 18:18

StevetheGreen

I was very happy to see the title of this thread "If you believe the official story behind 9-11, why?"
That's how this issue needs to be addressed.

For far too long, the 9/11 truth movement has been sucked into the propaganda game that allows misinformation specialists to bait people into offering their own speculation about unknown facets of the complex multi-faceted 9/11 saga.

The problem is that as soon as people start "speculating", they got you!
Even the "loose change" kids allowed themselves to be sucked into this game.

That's why this issue needs to be approached in a very careful and specific way.
(If changing minds is your goal, that is)

1) Start by asking people what they think about the events of 9/11 instead of immediatly declaring it an inside job.
As we all know, that won't work with most people.

2) If a person says that they believe the official explanation, ask them to characterize the official explanation in detail in their own words. This is important! Once they have made a committment to a specific belief, you have the necessary tools to begin the education process without wasting the limited time you have to reach them.

3) Their own words will illustrate the amount of knowledge they have on the subject.
Once you know "how much" they know about it, you can begin to ask a series of questions that will begin to illustrate their ignorance on the subject and they will begin to understand that they are not even aware of the most basic fundamental facts about the events that preceeded 9/11 and the events of 9/11 themselves.

4) Once someone understands that they are not aware of important information, they are much more apt to begin to listen instead of shutting down mentally.

5) Once you have someone listening, you can guide them through the important information they are not aware of.
But it is extremely important not to pretend as if you know things you can't possibly know. For example, as convinced as I am that 9/11 was an inside job, I never pretend to know many specific details about how certain aspects were executed. That's because I don't know! The truth is that only a few people really do know.
So just keep asking questions and every answer they give provides you an opportunity to share important information about that specific aspect.

6) Don't tell them to go to Alex Jones website and don't quote the common conspiracy sites or books and videos.
These sources only serve to further alienate these people and cause them to recoil from what they have already been told is conspiracy theory drivel. In other words it just escalates the dismissal of the information you are sharing.

7) You must have the patience to allow new people to "get there" by themselves.
This can be accomplished by allowing them to use their own common sense and by directing them to the mainstream sources they trust. Ask them the right questions in the right way and try very hard not to allow yourself to get emotional or overly enthusiastic when listening to their predictable replys.

8) When they ask the dumb questions like "well what happened to the people on the flight that hit the pentagon" if it didn't hit the pentagon, don't speculate or offer your own theory! Tell them the truth (which is) that you don't know. Explain to them what the right questions are and why.

9) Explain that the government is the only institution making claims.
Explain to them that the entity making the claims is the entity responsible for backing them up.

10) Then ask them what proof or evidence the government has provided to back up their claims.

11) Then remind them that believing in an explanation without evidence is exactly what a "conspiracy theory" is.

12) Remind them that all the evidence that could easily prove the government explanation to be accurate has either been destroyed by the government or is being withheld without any good reason.

13) Ask them why they believe in a conspiracy theory when a mountain of hard evidence clearly shows that many of their claims are pure nonsense and have been proven to be just that.

Finally, once a person understands that the government explanation could not possibly be true, they only have one place to go. I.E. Which is to try to understand what really happened and why.

That should be the 9/11 truth movements number one goal.
Question the ridiculous conspiracy theory by the government that has been shoved down the American people's throats.

Once people get there, the rest they can do on their own.

9/11 truth movement 13.Oct.2007 09:08

backlash_TX

All of you Alex Jones types are promoting this crypto fascist rhetoric. Your opinion has unfortunately convinced many people that your ideas are "radical". Get the fuck out of radical spaces and go back to your Libertarian cronies. Your stances are nothing different than that of the "3rd positionist" that came about from the likes of Louis Beam when he tried to link his ideas of anti-globalization, environmentalism, and anti-federal govt to the Anarchists. He is still a racist who espouses racist thinking. The truth movement uses it's "formally educated" word choices to give the impression that they are some sort of informed and viable opposition to current mainstream thought. Same as your movement still supports the notion of government, as long as it is a government that supports your privileged asses. It is so disheartening to me to see Ron Paul stenciled billboards all over my town that read "vote for revolution, vote for Ron Paul", then there's an infowars.com sign right next to the Ron Paul sign. You guys should be avoided as consciously as the feds. You have chosen to blame the allmighty presidential administration for being ringleaders in the 9/11 attacks, instead of looking at the very legitimate possibilities that your brand of democracy(TM) has caused others around the planet to be shat upon for decades and decades. Hence bringing some of them to the point of feeling the need to do something, anything, to strike a blow at the entity which has murdered their cultures. You want to close the borders, you want to imprison those who "deserve to be there"??? What gives? Actually I don't need to hear your reply, cause everything else that you say somehow relates back to your conspiracy of the power elites orchestrating everything. That's a cool image in my mind...Chenney and Bush packing blasting caps and det cord into charges in the towers. Maybe they and their accomplices held a 4 day weekend work party to do so.
Give me a fucking break.

Non Dogmatic Thinking Required 14.Oct.2007 05:38

Post Colonialism and Conspiracy Both

Operation Northwoods, the overthrow of Allende in Chile, the installation of the Shah in Iran - there are myriad worldwide examples of "conspiracy" acts, acts which more often than not elements of the American secret military including the C.I.A. were involved in. Its clear that some "progressives", (examples would include Ward Churchill, Alex Cockburn, Jim Page) claim that outside enemies of U.S. empire might have been behind an attack such as the World Trade towers and Pentagon attacks.

Remind them of all the other conspiracies the U.S. governement has been involved in around the world.

There is also the ideological mindset inherited from Hegelian marxism that history is made by large scale economic conflicts, masses of people in motion, wage labor versus capital, etc. History, in the left stereotype, is not made by individuals engaged in conspiracy.

Foucault had read his Marx as well as anyone, but I think he incured the wrath of the French left because in his books he points out that despite sweeping "contradictions", wage labor versus capital the most sweeping of them all, history often turns on incidental catalyse-like events out of the mainstream.

Elements of the U.S. government were clearly behind the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. That doesn't negate economic imperialism... not anymore than the class struggle in Germany negates the Reichstag fire.