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Going to try to drive out the Bush regime on Thursday? You better behave!

Organizers have promised the authorities that the protest will be polite and orderly.
World Can't Wait organizers have sent a letter to the mayor that explains what is going on Thursday, and their attitude toward troublemakers.

I just thought folks should know what's expected...

From the letter to the mayor and the police:
"Our local group here in Portland, as mentioned, is
planning a rally on October 5th in conjunction with
the national effort, and want to assure you that no
civil disobedience or unlawful actions are planned, or
will be tolerated by the organizers. It is likely that
some attendees will initiate a sidewalk march
following our rally, but we would expect (and will
insist) that all activity be conducted peacefully and
be a lawful expression of views."
Another liberal kiss ass bullshit rally 03.Oct.2006 07:13


Why title the rally "Drive out the Bush regime" with the urgency of "The world can't wait" only to then tell people that civil disobediance won't be tolerated?

I was planning on attending, but I will skip this latest "feelgood" waste of time now that I know what it is.

You just lost me 03.Oct.2006 07:53


What is this, a high school pep rally? I'm not saying you should bring molotovs or anything like that, but what is the point of standing around listening to unimportant people blabber on about things that we already know?! Bush is a war criminal? The Iraq war is bad? THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.

You can count me and the 15 people I was going to bring, as well as my banner out unless there is AT LEAST a sidewalk march planned.

I agree with Red&Black... 03.Oct.2006 07:54

Pravda or Consequences

Why don't we just email in our outrage?

We have gone to court and won against the fascist pigs who think it's OK to assault those who have the legal right to assemble.

Where is the letter from PoPo saying they will behave?

what? 03.Oct.2006 08:16


"and want to assure you that no
civil disobedience". CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE non violently is the only way. It is practiced all over the world every day with the Americans blessings.

wow emailing is too much trouble 03.Oct.2006 08:24


...I'll just sit at home and think about being outraged.

Seattle Anti-Capatalist/anarchist contingent 03.Oct.2006 10:24

Cascadia IMC's Reader

Just saw THIS post on Seattle IMC. They are planning an Anti-Capatalist/anarchist contingent to try to evoke some real change. I know Portlanders are pretty burnt out on crashing these sectarian rallies, but maybe I'm not the only one who doesn't care if WCW doesn't support direct action. Oh, I don't think the local chapter of WCW has set up legal support. Just something to think about if you are planning on attending.

"you better behave" 03.Oct.2006 10:34


You gotta be kidding. I mean you really gotta be KIDDING!

After a couple years of full page inflamatory rhetoric on the part of "World Can't Wait," this is where you guys are at?

Here I was thinking that the world could not wait, while you guys are busy calling the cops on yourselves in advance. If people want to do civil disobedience, that is there RIGHT (and it might just be a good idea). What happened to "this is a constitutional crisis?"

Put all your energy into trying to control your own people. The cops will protect you.

I have never seen a more assinine post in my life!!! I mean ever!!

[ 03.Oct.2006 12:02


World Cant Wait in Portland is a disgrace! You may as well join the Bush fascists, trying to control dissent and channel it into some weak pathological approach that only serves the current regime.

The only thing that may save us now IS CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. In fact, what is really needed are about 1 million people to march on the white house and put those criminals in jail.

With this post and your demand of obedience, you have lost my support and respect. You are an enemy of freedom.

hmmm 03.Oct.2006 12:11


If these times were not so important I would have a good laugh at your absurd ignorance. It is exactly because everyone in this country is so well behaved that we have the problem of a fascist police state. Unfortunately, this post shows why there is little chance to drive out the Bush regime. Go read up on the rise of Nazi Germany, though it is probably too late.

I'm game to take control of this protest. 03.Oct.2006 13:04


FULL ON take over. It should be hard last time they where completely dis-organized. we should not allow these liberals to take us into a age of No-action to a regime based on violence and repression. This is exactly the type of dis-empowerment the Bush Regime wants because it is simply ignored and shows no power.

We need to empower the Youth 03.Oct.2006 13:25


I'm realizing that if the continued apathy and dis-empowerment of the youth continues with boring speeches and marches on the sidewalks there is going to be no new energy in the movement. Everybody knows this regime is horrible, what the people want now is ACTION!!!! Even if your not going to have the courage to do it then support it. Instead the organizers of WCW go out of there way to alienate people that actually want to take action.

Marching in the Street is not violence. The Bush Regime and War is violence.

World can't wait for us to take the streets and actually do something while we still can. Permits are just another form of repression by the state to control the people. Next we'll have to have permits for the sidewalk.

If an anti-authoritarian/Anti-imperialist bloc is called count me in. Otherwise I'm just going to ignore this so I can afford to live.

The World Can't Wait Campaign is probably funded by the government anyway. Counter-revolutionary in my mind!! They use over the top slogans with a sense of urgency, followed by not supporting any direct action.

If you haven't read "The New State Repression" then get a copy now:
 link to info.interactivist.net

pissed 03.Oct.2006 14:03

as hell

The Congress just passed Bush's enabling act, and this country is now officially a police state, but you organizers are going to enforce a polite and passive response? Behave yourselves? Civil disobedience will not be tolerated? WILL NOT BE TOLERATED? What are you going to do, shoot people? call the cops on them?

Please tell us what you are going to do about civil disobedience? I want to hear your plan and how you are going to enforce your dictates!!!

don't stay home--take it over 03.Oct.2006 14:11


Don't stay home; go to the protest and do whatever it is you think is appropriate to drive out this regime! I don't even know what "not tolerated by the organizers" means, but fuck them! The World Can't Wait for these pathetic organizers to get hip!

drive the bush regime out 03.Oct.2006 14:31

and these organizers too

I wont be staying home. But these organizers are gonna hear from me out there!

hey people 03.Oct.2006 15:24

bullshit protests

Protests protests protests. We have them all the time. Peaceful protests. We dont need a riot, but civil disobediance is a must! Howard Zinn said it best... "Protest beyond the law is not a departure from democracy, but it is absolutly essential to it!"

For those who said you are not attending... I come to you and ask that you please keep your plans and show up to this protest. Those of us with some guts will do what we need to do. I personaly sent an e-mail to the National Lawyers Guild and I am still waiting for a response. I am also subscribed to the world cant wait pdx e-mailing address and somebody also said they were meeting with them to plan what is going on.

There are marches scedualed for this event, at least one or two of them, but it is confined to the sidewalks. We can try to make something out of it. If we all show up and go into the streets, maybe more will follow, maybe nobody will. Maybe it is a futile effort, but come on guys we need to try! Maybe we can rally some of them with us. Everybody knows this country is becoming (is a) fascist regime. If there is anytime to act, now is it. Because next year we might not have the luxery to protest.

SO who is with me?

Is this for real? 03.Oct.2006 16:21


I smell either Dan the Man or else an attempt to dive and conquer us.

If this is for real, then please, liberal minds, come to your senses. You will never make any changes by collaborating with the police state. While you are turning in "troublemakers" and kissing the ring, Rome burns. No, Fallujah burns. Little babies burn. Our souls burn. This is no time for politeness. Save your ettiquette lessons for the people dropping the bombs and stop allowing yourselves to be used as tools to keep the people from ever really changing anything. This is not a game. I will act according to my own conscience, as should everyone else. Liberal do-goods with or without green arm bands, stay the fuck out of my face. If you want to preach non-violence to someone, talk to the thugs with the guns on the ice cream truck.

If this communique not for real, but just an effort to divide people who might have been allies, it's still not going to work. Because I will be there on the streets on Thursday anyway. Not in solidarity with pointless, self-aggrandizing, soft-in-the-middle toadies who would presume to be "organizing" the rest of us by collaborating with the police state. No. I will be there in solidarity with those who have been victimized by the current world order, and I will be there in solidarity with everyone who feels to their core that what is happening in the world right now is wrong. If that's you, then I've got your back. Burn the arm band and join life.

This is too important to be allowing "organizers'" ridiculous missteps to blow it.

Straight 03.Oct.2006 16:57


I will be there also, even though the words and attitude of the so called organizers is so offensive that I don't even want to be on the street with them. However, this is bigger than some police state apologist organizers and their idiocy. Come on out people, our lives depend upon it.

A Message from the Organizers 03.Oct.2006 17:43


I sent an e-mail to them about the need for civil disobediance. Here is there response. I hope this clears some things up and people can come to a conclusion.

Hi, (and others who share your concerns),

I know you are right about a place for civil
disobedience in our World Can't Wait movement.
However, I do not believe that ad hoc or unconcensed
acts in the context of events such as this one on
Thursday serve the broader goal of building our
strength in unity with many others to drive out the
Bush regime. Acts of civil disobedience that have the
greatest impact are those that have been carefully
planned and often announced in advance, and often have
large participation from those who create the
situations for them to be a challenge to specific
injustices. Things that take place out of the flow of
an event, such as what we intend doing on Thursday,
likely will put off some who come not expecting such
happenings, and tend to be played up in the media to
portray a different image of our movement than we
intend and need in order to build it from it's
relatively small present level. Once we are better
organized and much stronger as a movement here, it
seems to me that we would all be in a much better
position to determine if and how we can make use of
any impactful nonviolent civil disobedience actions to
illuminate those injustices we wish to put a spotlight
upon. At this point, as we are trying to encourage
many people from many sectors of our society to step
out of their more narrow engagements into a broader
arena of cooperation and unity and to engage in
actions that can impact on our real contradictions, I
think actions that are not planned in advance and
agreed upon by most of us will be counterproductive.

We probably have created some misunderstanding about
the larger objective and actions of WCW within the
activist community with the wording of the letters
that went out, but they do accurately portray our
planned intent for this event, I think. We do not
have any nonviolent acts of civil disobedience
planned, nor are we encouraging them at this time.
What actions might now be productive along that line
are unclear to us that we could all engage in right
now, I think. Perhaps soon, if we can draw in the
various streams of opposition into cooperative meeting
and planning, we will determine how such actions can
further our goal. The World Can't Wait movement is
open to our use of this powerful avenue, but not as
something we do haphazardly to emphasize some
principle. I would suggest you visit the
worldcantwait.org website to learn about such actions
that have taken place around the country by WCW, such
as the recent one at the UN during Bush's visit to
tout his new war.

Unless carefully considered as to the message we wish
to get out by our concerted actions together, we are
not likely to have much positive impact if a few, on
their own, initiate actions that come out of the blue.
Targeted actions can, I know, have great impact, even
if only a few people actually engage in what is
determined to be needed. They may become part of what
we do with WCW in Portland, maybe even in concert with
national actions, but for now we need to build an
organized and committed group ready to do whatever it
takes to stop this whole mad agenda of this regime.

We are planning to have meetings in every location
across America where we are active following Oct 5th
with all those who wish to help figure out what we
need to be doing to make a difference as the strength
of this movement grows in America and here in
Portland. We will be announcing a time and place for
our organizing meeting at our Thursday event, and
invite any who are serious about building a broad
coalition of forces to come then and bring your all
your ideas. This movement is about all of us being
it's leaders, not getting others to come on board
something where the agenda has been set. This is
about we, the people, figuring out together how we can
reclaim our country.

As to this Thursday, I hope you will refrain from
actions that many who are coming may not understand as
appropriate at this moment. Do come and speak to us
about what you think we should hear about why this
regime must be stopped, and what direction we should
head with this movement to be an effective vehicle to
help in stopping the terrible direction we are being
taken by this regime.

protest signs 03.Oct.2006 18:44

rambler ramblerman770@gmail.com

I have 100+ super strong wood protest frames. all you need is 22x28 posterboard , a sharpie and a lot of rage.
these are free and must be used on thursday. lets show them our hate 5038419496

action trumps inaction 03.Oct.2006 19:08


stop criticizing and join the action.

if you don't like this action, create your own.

it's been too quiet in the streets of portland to waste time on this kind of drivel.

see you in the streets!

Truly hilarious 03.Oct.2006 20:46


I remember the days of the 80's, being in my parents car and passing some federal building or another and seeing all the whiny hippies with stupid, pleading signs, and really thinking that dissent was something carried out by the least interesting, least relevant, most privileged, and most self-satisfied jerks. Then I remember seeing and/or being part of the first Intifada, Tiananmen Square massacres, Chiapas, Reclaim the streets, Seattle, Quebec, etc.

Now, I'm not the best person to rail about the "coming fascism", or any other kind of melodrama, but I will say that this country and its current leadership have really taken hypocracy and disregard for human life to a new level of acceptability. There is absolutley no excuse for another worthless mass-act of disempowerment and placating. So, not only am I not attending any more of these pointless back-patting sessions, but I encourage every one of you that feels at all unconfortable with them to also abstain. Screw it. This is no kind of resistance, and showing up with the vague notion of "taking over" begs the question: taking over what? Really? 50,000 middle to upper-middle calss liberals? Yeck.

Wait what? 03.Oct.2006 21:32


Wait what...??!! How can World Can't Wait not encourage civil disobediance? I mean isn't the only purpose of protests to get the message out by acts of civil disobediance, and creating a community to further the struggle? Shit.. can you name one movement that has succeeded by following the peace police and upholding the law. Did fucking Ghandi have a permit when he marched to the sea. Martin Luther King was arrested 20+ plus times for acts of civil disobediance. Did Marcos just sit and say hey... I understand that we are starving and having our land stolen from us... but if we just march in the barriers of the law we will get it back. Even the most liberal revolutionaries took direct action.

Although planned direct action is a must... how can you (world can't wait) say you encourage it but discourage it at this protest? Also some spur of the moment direct action has in history proven to be effective. I say that in the sense that it would be less effective doing nothing. Sure, things may not always go the way one would want them to... but honestly it is worth it. For example, say if a group of protestors are being cornered by the police, they did not plan this, it's spur of the moment. Now spur of the moment direct action, the police are closing in at all sides, the smart thing to do is to look for the weakest link of the police lineup and run through it to escape. This is in fact direct action. Now would you have suggested that the protestors stay and get their asses kicked by the police, in order to not break any laws? Also, say one plans amongst the protest and only amongst the protest to take the streets. Now there is a group gathered that is willing to take the streets and there is also a larger group that agrees to follow. You see the opening street unprotected and you.... do absolutely nothing if you are not to commit any acts of civil disobediance. Now if you were to do this, the streets get taken for lets say 5 hours and the entire west coast hears about it the next day. The next month, feeling inspired by this action, students take over campuses, and the government is forced to compromise, people become more radical, the whole entire scene changes. Compared to, you did nothing, no one heard about it, nothing changed, you failed.

If you are going to play peace police and destroy any attempt to produce change you belong on the other side. What the hell do you expect to come to walking peacefully on the sidewalk? You think more people will be encouraged to join the fight against bush? I was discouraged to keep continuosly fight the fight against Bush because I saw a lack of direct action, and I saw that things weren't changing at all. What did March 19th 2006 accomplish? All the organizers say we have to wait till we get the numbers to start doing large direct action. We had upwards 15,000 people there and we didn't do SHIT! "It has to start some place, it has to start some time, what better place than here, what better time than NOW!"

Fuck off peace police... were trying to start a revolution

School daze 04.Oct.2006 04:36

not too cool for school

It is amazing the energy people put into fighting each other.

o.k., yes, boring action, boring beyond belief. However, it is an action, and guess what? the organizers get to set some parameters around what they have organized.

yes, it's annoying that they have used resistance rhetoric and hope that lots of you little angry mobsters will show up and then they can score cool points and show how well behaved they can make you all when the rest of society can't.

o.k. so it's a tired and used up tactic...the street protest.

o.k. so walking in circles, holding signs and agreeing on the correct chants are tactics that are not going to bring down the neo-fascist latent tendencies of the neo-conservatives. We can all agree on this.

however, don't whine, don't point fingers or spend your time showing how macho/militant/pissed off you are here on indymedia compared to the world can't waiters.

let's get smarter.
let's get lighter.
let's get even.

it's simple, organize, stay away from these sites, and rallies and protests and begin to organize a serious resistance. and that doesn't mean civil disobediece, or black bloc or any kind of bloc for that matter.

study, circle up, and never trust anyone who is glorifying or rushing the slow and tedious work of learning how to read historical development, track neighborhood issues and consciousness, and knowing when and how to act. revolutionary patience, i know that it sounds like defeatism, but unless we build, unless we learn and unless we stop playing their game, and yes, most/almost all of resistance politics in this country is their game,

then yes, we are doomed.

but there is another way.

take that step. away from the comment button.

and into the beating heart of uncompromising and patient resolve to win.

chicken or an egg 04.Oct.2006 06:28


know you enemy.
study your enemy.
look in the mirror.
question what you are willing to sacrifice in order to achieve your goals.

what is the world that we want to create,
can this be translated into a popular message?

if not what is our biosphere
instructing us to do right now.

i guarantee it is not to focus a whole lot of energy on impeachment.

NASA scientists say that we have a decade to turn around global warming and other climate destabalizing factors, and this may be optimistic even...

so again, what are we supposed to be doing with this information.

what would an intellegent species who has managed to adapt to survive for hundreds of thousands of years do?

what kind of radical changes would we make if we were serious?
what would our resistance look like...i promise nothing like this, indymedia, impeach bush, stop the war movements.

our movements must begin to resemble organisms thinking seven generations ahead, and not because of some romaticism with native american or bio-primitivist longings, but because we don't have much time

the mine shaft is filling with water
there is only one way out.

The problem with peace police 04.Oct.2006 09:45


Whether one intends to participate in direct action or not, it's genuinely insulting to learn that organizers of this demo have been collaborating with the police state in this manner, and to hear that these "organizers" intend to be intolerant and to insist that other people act according to the organizers' dictates rather than their own consciences.

This moment is ours to seize, all of us. It is not up to any "organizers" to take responsibility for other peoples' behavior. We are all individuals, let us each act according to our own souls. Please check your arm bands at the door: As this is a public event, I intend to be there, but will not be blankly herded by people in green arm bands.

When will liberals learn. It's fine with me if you do not want to participate in direct action, and even if you want the community to know that any direct action that occurs does so through the actions and decisions of others. It is not fine to sell out fellow activists (in ADVANCE, no less) to the police state. In Seattle, there were many blue collar union workers who marched during the day, and who did not participate in the police riots of the night. But when asked, in a snotty and divisive manner, by a local reporter how they felt about "those people in black who disrupted things," I was thrilled to hear one such worker state clearly, "These are my allies. We're all here for the same goal. Their tactics might not be my tactics, but I support them just the same. We're all in this together."

THAT scared the shit out of the imperialists. If you want to make a difference, take an example from that man. Because when we stand together, when we do not allow ourselves to be divided over tactics, then we are a force to be reckoned with.

A wall takes many bricks 04.Oct.2006 12:21


I am a veteran of the Viet Nam protests, the Kent State protests, the equality for all peoples campaigns and others. Every movement has a need for multi-leveled protests. We need Sierra Club check writers as much as we need tree sitters. We need letter writers as much as we need those willing to chain themselves together in a civil disobediance action. We need ELF arsonists and Grenpeace obstructionists as urgently as we need scientific research to justify ending old growth harvesting.

We drove LBJ out of office. We ended the war in SVN. We scared Nixon so much he lost his sanity and presidency. We brought increased levels of freedom to our minorities and women, though much remains to be done.

I am greatly encouraged by the messages here that some of you indicate a willingness to put your body, well being, immediate freedom and comfort on the line to oppose the state. The time may come that we all must do so.

Some of those organizing this event have worked for years to bring the public consiousness and outrage to a starting point. They are well known by the powers that be, unlike those hidden ones who leave their graffiti on postings like this. The organizers risk jail time for the actions of others, whether they agree with their methods or not. They have no choice but to advocate for a peaceful non-violent protest, otherwise the conspiriacy laws would soon silence them.

If others want to take more direct action to bring about change more quickly, then do so, but in a way that is clearly not part of this, if you please. Be assured that our hearts are with you. There may come a time that you will appreciate milder forms of protest; perhaps when you are older and have too much to lose, or when you are jailed and need bail or legal help. Go for it, but don't bite the hand that feeds you. The game of "I'm more xxx than you" divides us to the advantage of our opponents

"it is an action" 04.Oct.2006 13:08

when is an elephant not an elephant

> However, it is an action

No, really, it's not. Not every event is an "action." We can call it an inaction. There will be a carefully planned mass inaction tomorrow. Don't be late.

Enough of this 04.Oct.2006 13:26


I have been to the big meetings for the big marches, and I know the stereotypes that people have when they make statements like the one posted way above. Statements about how they will not tolerate digression from their "peaceful" event. They say things like that because they imagine that anyone who would not agree with them on this point must be a wild eyed teenager with a molotov cocktail in his hands and no sense in his head and no goodness in his heart. I have had enough of this.

I am no teenager. I'm 41 years old. I have never been arrested, and I have never thrown a molotov cocktail. I probably won't tomorrow, either. But should the need arise, and the moment be right, I will be free to do so. And I do not expect to be stabbed in the back for it by someone I had thought was an ally. This is a monsterous moment in human history that we're dealing with. Every bit as monsterous as the rise of the Nazis. Do you want to be one to stand up against this and do what must be done? Or do you want to be one who would stand back and decry your comrades because their behavior is impolite and might look bad on the corporate media later? Is this about how you want to look on TV? Or is this about changing the world? Because if it's about changing the world, you are going to need a lot more passion that will ever be engendered by these kinds of unwise attempts to control other people.

I appreciate the respectful tone of Mahatne's response to all this, but I respectfully disagree. First, regarding this:

"The organizers risk jail time for the actions of others, whether they agree with their methods or not."

No, they do not. Unless they insist upon taking "responsibility" for the actions of others, as in this thoughtless communique to the police state. They do not control me, they are not in charge of me, and they are not responsible for me. I am my own person, and individual with a conscience. And tomorrow, that conscience will guide me.

Regarding this:

"Some of those organizing this event have worked for years to bring the public consiousness and outrage to a starting point."

My friends, we are way past the "starting point." Your organizers are working to quell outrage, not to bring it to any "starting point." Recognize this for the momentous occasion that it is. That it must be.

the world can't wait to hear me make another speech 05.Oct.2006 02:12

what the fuck is this about

> Is this about how you want to look on TV? Or is this about changing the world?

This is about standing around, holding signs, waiting for your group's turn at the podium.

I just went to one of those ridiculous meetings.

You forget people like that exist. What do they think they're accomplishing.

[ 05.Oct.2006 09:05


"I am greatly encouraged by the messages here that some of you indicate a willingness to put your body, well being, immediate freedom and comfort on the line to oppose the state. The time may come that we all must do so."

Please don't fool yourself. The time has come when we all must do so.

"There may come a time that you will appreciate milder forms of protest; perhaps when you are older and have too much to lose"

There are lots of old grandmothers who helped take over the state media in Oaxaca. And if your freedom is not 'too much to lose', well then you are gonna lose it if you value material possessions above it. Get your priorities straight. Where do you stand.

This administration will not be swayed by milder protest. It will have to be forced out by relentless willpower. Congress nor the democrats will help. The voting machines are rigged and will bring another Neo-con victory. Stop dreaming about tomorrow. This is now, today, the 4th Reich. It is here.