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anti-racism | immigration

immigrants give more than they take

Most of us trolling around on this site are likely "pro immigrant"

However we probably all come in contact with people who disagree and will start spewing numbers as to how much tax money it costs to take care of all these "illegals" how they are taking jobs, etc...

I've got a few simple "pro-immigrant" arguements you can use as needed
The "taking jobs" one is pretty simple... Its variation "if they paid 12$ an hour 'Mericans would be happy to do the work" Go in to any Fred Meyers, go walk down the street. Look around you. How many people do you see that would be physically and mentally capable of picking apples, working in a meat processing facility or sawmill. (Well, some of us who ride around on bicycles are possibly in shape to do it- if they could pry us out of the coffee shop) The vast majority of folks I see out in public couldn't pick apples or pull green chain if the wage was 8, 12 or fifty bucks an hour.


As far as the "taking services" line, I belive these folks give a lot more than they take. What about the white people that work at wal-mart, and then need public assistance? we are subsidising the employers, not the people, and then we get our apples for 70 cents a pound rather than a buck fifty.. I'm in a union, and we have health insurance that is something like $750 a month- My wife and I are blessed with good health. So is the cat even if he was elegible... My 750 health insurance goes to people who are sick, old, have too many kids, etc. Ok, worst case scenario I can think of a healthy illegal breaking his hand or falls off his bicycle, runs up $1000 bill at the emergency room and "we all have to pay" What about the 60 year old who has diabetes after a life of gluttionus eating and drinking, and maybe needs a knee replacement on top of that, he's white, hes on my group health insurance, and a big reason I get a 200 kick in the crotch for a routine physical after paying my 750 a month.
Taxes? thats crap,, At the low pay level theres not much tax liability anyways,, and these folks employers take money out for social security that they have no chance of ever seeing.


At various times in my life I have had the honor of working alongside first-generation immigrants. I truly feel these folks give more than they take to our country. If you have to look at who is being subsidized- look at the employers, and look at the apples on your table, the sheetrock on your wall or shingles on your roof.
don't leave out 07.May.2006 16:26

social security

After the Immigration and Control Reform Act was passed in 1986 it set the stage for something new. Employers were subject to fines if they "knowingly" hired undocumented workers. This created a black market for fake social security cards and identification. That market skyrocketed.

In the late 80's Social Security had a dramatic increase in the number of W-2 earning reports with incorrect or fictious social security numbers. Those funds were tucked away in the "earnings suspense file".

Guess how much was contributed to this suspense file in the 1990's.
If you picked ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY NINE BILLION dollars you win the golden egg.

During 2002 alone, 56 billion dollars was put in the suspense file that was generated from over 9 million "incorrect" W-2's.

Why aren't the politicians advertising this fact and who are they trying to fool. .

taxes 07.May.2006 16:42

yak

I've heard said that "illegal" immigrants contribute in taxes 30 million more dollars than the services they are estimated to use. hence a decent situation for the economy. only problem is, when i state this statictic, people ask me where it came from. i dont know and would appreciate any information from anyone who is aware of this statistic or where it came from. thanks,

making the world go round? 07.May.2006 18:26

TheTroll

well, someone has to pay back the trillions in debt that Democraps and Republitrash have created. Legal Americans have shown well enough that they never plan to pay it back.

You hear the economy is growing. Duh. Give me a credit card with a 4 trillion dollar limit that future generations will have to pay for and print up 2 trillion dollars in fiat curency and give it to me and I could grow the economy too. Duh.

The stock markey is way up. Duh, the federal reserve is using the 2 trillion in newly created curency to buy up everything. They are buying America with America's cash. You will be a slave to them just as the new "illegal" Americans will be slaves to them. they bought you with your own cash.

Lets Be Fair 07.May.2006 18:36

Joe Anybody

I've heard that SS will collect twice from two people at one time as both will be using the same SS number.
Not caring at all if their is separate names being used....but they both are having money drawn from the same number
And although ....BOTH WILL BE PAYING IN ...while only one will draw latter ...the legal one.

Seems like the government has ...let this happen with a blind eye in this respect.

I like the idea we are all humans and deserve love and respect
And that as human we are all together in this world, and have right to a decent life

couple of sites of interest 07.May.2006 18:54

pchy

I came across a couple of sites that might help

The Social Science Research Network which is "... devoted to the rapid worldwide dissemination of social science research and is composed of a number of specialized research networks in each of the social sciences," and is co-hosted by Standford Law School and the European Corporate Governance Institute has an article that directly refutes the claim that immigrants take more from social programs than they pay in taxes.

From the article - "Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy." It also mentions the fact that many social programs are not open or accessed by undocumented immigrants because the lack of documentation or the fear of officials deporting them.

 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

Bush and Co. 07.May.2006 19:59

scapegoating immigrants

If the Iraq war wasn't costing us so much (billions and billions) there would be plenty of money left for social programs for each and every one of us- no matter what our status, documented or not.

Schools would have funding, college students coud have not just high interest loans, but grants, too. Healthcare, housing, you could just go right down the list- all of it could have healthy funding- if the U.S gov't were not so hell-bent on invading tiny countries.

"Free trade" 08.May.2006 07:17

Sick of those missing the point

You are missing the point on this. The so-called free trade agreements, really just investor rights laws, allow capital to freely flow across borders. When that happens, you get scenarios such as us dumping our cheaper corn (and in violation of the accord, we subsidize the growth of that corn--so if you are gonna talk about breaking laws, that is one breakage that has a huge effect on why people migrate to the US from Mexico) into Mexico which then pushes farmers off the land and here to get jobs. If capital is going to flow freely, then labor must also.

There are really only two choices here. One, we allow labor to flow freely, and in accordance with that we need to work to change out labor laws, including making full employment a goal, as it used to be. The other choice is to not allow capital to freely flow, thus allowing Mexico to raise tariffs to our products coming across the border, which would also include stuff like car parts and so on.

Either way, consumer prices will increase, although so will wages. Stock prices will lower, but so it goes.

Free Trade = Good For Some 10.May.2006 22:46

Joe Anybody www.joe-anybody.com

This link below is worth checking out
It's on the same topic of
who is profiting from this Free Trade?
...as mentioned by,
"sick of those missing the point"

First off, Let me say
Thanks, your absolutly right!

And good link thanks, "pchy" !

check this Alternet article out:
 http://www.alternet.org/story/34768/#comments