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political theory | prisons & prisoners

My Exchange with Stan Goff

I thought someone who might know Stan might contact him.
Retired Special Forces Master Sergeant Stan Goff is a man of good model. I pre-empted him at his website for an exchange that never might have been because I read that he wrote the following:

'George W. Bush, if your administration drops a nuclear weapon on anyone anywhere, you need to lock me up before you do it. Because at that point, anything except open rebellion against you makes me no better than all the "good Germans." I will not be your good German.'

I wanted his opinion on a few issues, and only after, did I learn that his son has spent at least three tours with the U.S. Army in Iraq, from where we wish his return safe and now.

The exchange:


Dear Stan,

My question to you is as follows: 'If' there is probable cause for Americans to believe that Israel had to do with the 9-11 attacks, what would you do?

Also, I saw something you wrote referring to the 'illuminati' as non-existant - - but then what are your thoughts on Zionism?

sincerely
tuckett

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(stan)

I don't for one second believe that Israel atacked the US, at least not since the attack on the USS Liberty. I also consider the Illuminati to be so much paranoid raving. I'll get tons fo comments and mail about that, because the Illuminati-hunters nurse their paranoia over thousands and thousands of keyboards, scouring the internet for new conjectures to support their dark prognostications and seeking out non-believers to convert them.

The world is not divided into Good vs. Evil, and conspiracies, while used to secure and consoidate power, are not determinative. The social system is.

As for my thoughts on Zionism, the two following links cover them pretty well. It is not equatable to Judaism, nor reducible to Jews, nor is it a world-domination conspiracy. These constructions are — paradoxically — used by both anti-Semites and pro-Zionists (Zionism=Judaism). It is a political movement, racist and (locally) expansionist in nature, and secular in its origins.

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(me)

Good of you to respond. thanks stan.
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(me)
Stan, on second thought i would like to respond. I do believe that it is dangerous to assume that there isn't a great force in the world that seeks to have greater power than the rest which happens to be the majority. Is it world domination ?- i guess it depends on who you ask. Wasn't the aim of Hitler world domination? So why are we immune from thinking that Zionism (Israel) hasn't the same vision of control that it exhibited in Palestine after WWII?

It's not a conspiracy when you read the words of David Ben Gurion. I'm sorry, I don't believe Israel should be the 'capital of the world'.

Why is it Stan, that when given matrimonial vows here off the coast of California, two Jews, who are both Americans by the way, swear their allegiance to 'Israel'. I should apologize again for listening over the fence.

I am not one for conspiricies either, in fact, it requires much mental dexterity to get past the crazy conspiracies that are our before us- and one of them is 9-11. But Stan, I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose from seeing the truth. What truth? ->I never saw a plane in Shanksville, and I know you didn't either. Not a piece of tail, not a wing, not a cockpit, not an arm or a leg or a doll Stan. I saw smoke, and men talking about. I saw nothing that suggested that a plane crashed there- it was only suggested to me and everyone else.

And why would the government keep the cameras back when this government loves to exploit tragedy for gain- but for the very essense of that 'tragedy'??

Why was there a flag over the hole in the Pentagon Stan? For Patriotism? Or because it went along with the moment of silence that never happened.

I apologize again, I don't believe in conspiracy theories my friend, I have Much More to do then to contemplate 19 shadows and fake heroes.

What are the Real issues? Here is the apex of the pyramid - knowledge - and here is my science that tells me simply that the conspiracy is greater than your recognition of it.

define conspiracy:

con·spir·a·cy

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

truly
tuckett
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(stan)

Illuminati

Wiki provides a pretty good account of the difference between a valid investigation of an actual conspiracy, and the restless penchant for "conspiracy theory" (tho I'd argue with some of it, you get the idea):

Allegations exhibiting several of the following features are candidates for classification as conspiracy theories. Confidence in such classification improves the more such features are exhibited:

1 Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence; Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.

2 Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact; Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.

3 Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions; Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.

4 Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators; Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the 'impossibility' that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.

5 Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators; May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.

6 Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning; Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.

7 Appeals to 'common sense'; Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.

8 Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies; Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.

9 Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review; Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.

10 Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science; At least some of the story's believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.

11 Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities; Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.

12 Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
hen experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.

13 The conspiracy is claimed to involve just about anybody; Conspiracy tales grow in the telling, and can swell to world-spanning proportions. As the adherents struggle to explain counter-arguments, the conspiracy grows even more (see preceding item). Conspiracy theories that have been around for a few decades typically encompass the whole world and huge portions of history.

14 The conspiracy centers on the "usual suspects"; Classical conspiracy theories feature people, groups or organsations that are discriminated against in the culture where the story is told. Jews and foreigners are a common target. Likewise, organisations with a bad or colorful reputation feature prominently, such as the templars, the nazis and just about any secret service.

Here(link) is a piece by a 9-11 theorist who thinks the government did it, but refutes the "no plane hit the Pentagon" story.

And here(link) is a deconstruction of the Pentagon no-plane theory done by someone who had even more time on his hands than the no-plane theorists.

Back to my point. These are outgrowths of the system, which can be seen or concealed by examination of actual actions taken by the political representatives of the bourgeoisie... depending on your episteme.

Actually, no, Hitler was not bent on world domination. His goal was the conquest of Europe and enough colonies and leibensraum (expansion space) to support his new reich. But the deeper question is not what Hitler (one man) wanted, but how did he get where he was? What were the SOCIAL forces that led to fascism?

And where in the world did anyone get "Israel wants to be capital of the world"? If we are drifting into the World Jewish Conspriacy and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, your stay here could be quite short. Be very careful. These notions are plain anti-Semitism. My oldest daughter is Jewish, and aside from my general objections to hateful anti-Jewish lunacy, I would take that very personally.

Read the rules — Not tolerated: racism, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, anti-Semitism... got it?
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(me)

I think you've done a good job at evading the point Stan. , just like you did my original question about Israel. Do you plan a run for office in the future?

And about your comment 'objections to hateful anti-Jewish lunacy, I would take that very personally.' Are you supposing that I am not Jewish? If so, then am I a riddled in guilt? The rules apply for all, and I object to the notion that you would paint me anti-semetic;

Unlike you Stan, I am not afraid to see the truth and act upon it.

Good luck feral minded scholar.

tuckett

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(stan)
I didn't say Israel wanted to be the capitol of the world. And I simply warned you — because this kind of nonsense is typically followed by WJC stuff — that if we go there, we won't go together.

This kind of verbiage, especially in combination with "What are the Real issues? Here is the apex of the pyramid - knowledge - and here is my science that tells me simply that the conspiracy is greater than your recognition of it." (a reference to the Illuminati, I assume) generally DOES go there.

In any case, the real Illuminati lasted only a short while, and they are all now quite dead. And a plane crashed into the Pentagon.
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(me)
Here is what i should have posted previously in tandem with '..israel as capital of the world... '

:of the year 1987, mr. david ben gurion is quoted as saying ((in 1948)): '... all armies will be abolished, and there will be no more wars. In Jerusalem, the United Nations (a truly united nations) will build a Shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents: this will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesised by Isiah... .'

And it wasnt AA Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon.

homepage: homepage: http://tuckett.blogspot.com/