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imperialism & war

What has Sen. Russ Feingold been smoking?

"It's the reality of a situation like this that when you have a large troop presence that it has the tendency to fuel the insurgency because they can make the incorrect and unfair claim that somehow the United States is here to occupy this country, which of course is not true," Feingold said.
 link to www.usatoday.com
Now that is a truly bizarre statement. We obviously have occupied Iraq. Feingold is in complete denial of reality. We need to call bullshit on him, and we sure as hell should not run him for president. We don't need another president who cannot deal with reality.

As far as I can see there is no one in the Democratic party who merits our support. We should all bail out of the Democrats and run an independent. Political parties no longer work.

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yawn 26.Mar.2006 20:50


"As far as I can see there is no one in the Democratic party who merits our support. We should all bail out of the Democrats and run an independent. Political parties no longer work."

It's so sad that it's taken such an incredulously long time to figure this out. "Liberal" politicians are nothing more than gatekeepers of dissent and should be regarded as such. To those who still tell you that change is only possible and even beneficial when done WITHIN the system, tell them that that time has passed. It's too late for such idealism. Now the only recourse is to work radically outside the established forums of discourse. The anti-globalization paved the way for this and was virtually decimated by the events of 9/11/01...which was clearly an inside job.

ndrjty 26.Mar.2006 21:33


Even the well meaning democrats act as agents of the democratic party. The encourage people to participate in it, to vote democrat. Feingold, Conyers, Kucinich, McKinney, they should leave the party and make a new start outside its deathly influence. Feingold will have to sell out in order to make any headway. Staying in the Democratic Party is a lose/win situation.

It's a rhetorical gambit 27.Mar.2006 01:32

g.d. dem

Feingold is putting his pawn out there hoping that some part of corporate media will take it by saying "No, it IS true, that's exactly why we're there, to occupy the country." Anyway, Feingold is correct to say that the U.S. is not there to occupy the country, if by 'the U.S.' is meant the people of the U.S.A. - who want to get the U.S. out of Iraq. So, if Feingold could tease out the argument that the U.S. IS there to occupy, then that opens up the question of who really is or represents the U.S.A. - the American people or global capital?

BTW: Did 'athsrtj' mean to say "Staying in the Democratic Party is a lose/win situation"? Or wasn't 'ndrjty' supposed to say "a lose/lose situation"? (Just wondering)

Lots of luck to George Bender with independents in November - any names for that? I mean, is it real or is it a fantasy? Filing deadline for independents for the November 7 congressional elections is August 29 - so that's 5 months to get your act together. Seems like a long time - 5 months - but time flies when you're busy. Do you need to get signatures on a petition or just pay a filing fee? What about the statement of financial interests - gotta have that done too. Constitution, Libertarian and Pacific Green parties know what they are doing with nominating conventions - do you know what you are going to do and how you are going to organize a popular base? Just get your name on the ballot and pay for a statement in the Voters' Pamphlet about how terrible the Dems are - is that it? Is that the idea? . . . . bekuz if that's it, cynics will glance at that and size it up in about 3 seconds as 'obviously a Republican in sheep's clothing' . . . just asking.

As for the terrible "Feingold, Conyers, Kucinich, McKinney" gang - well, what can I say? "BAD DEMS, very bad, very very bad dems, DEMS BAD, VERY BAD!"

(Greens too - Libertarians too - all political parties . . . very very bad!)

smoking or drinking?? 27.Mar.2006 12:07


It's not so much smoked, but perhaps what he drank.
Maybe he "drank the koolaid," eh?

Sounds like he's fallen for pentagon shortsheets
that most likely flood his desk each day.

Overall, Feingold was an excellent senator the
years I lived in wisconsin, I think. Although
I'm fully aware there were at least half a dozen
major things I didn't like about him, and this
kind of thing is one of them, to be sure. But
relative to the other 99 senators, I thought he
was one of the 3 or 4 best.

I'm saddened that "that ain' sayin much..."

And that I have to speak relatively rather than absolutely.

For a politician, I guess Feingold is tolerable. Although
if he does in fact run for prez with McCain I'm going to
be quite disappointed, and would expect those who will
actually vote to be as torn as say, if emma goldman picked
john kerry or josef liebernmannsk as her runningmate.

Independents 27.Mar.2006 15:29

George Bender

"Lots of luck to George Bender with independents in November - any names for that? I mean, is it real or is it a fantasy?"

At this point it's just a dream. I haven't heard of anyone running against the war in Oregon. House members are up for reelection in November. DeFazio, Hooley and Walden have been voting for war funding and should be opposed, but it looks like no one is up for it.

The greens --  http://www.pacificgreens.org/ -- had their nominating convention March 11. They have candidates for governor and Multnomah county commissioner, but none for Congress. Apparently they've decided not to compete at the national level, as they effectively did in 2004. Too bad. Makes it hard for me to take them seriously.

Congressional candidates could theoretically be run as independents. I don't know what the mechanics are, perhaps another reader could enlighten us. According to recent news articles the state legislature has made it more difficult to run independents. Now you can't sign a petition to put an independent on the ballot if you also vote in a party primary. Part of the long-standing D and R effort to suppress dissent.

As much as I dislike the Democrats -- I'm registered independent -- the best way to oppose war-voting House incumbents in November might be to run peace candidates against them in the primary. Just to send a message. I don't see anyone stepping up to do that either. At times I've thought about doing it myself, but I don't have any group behind me, although I work with various groups on various issues. I also don't have any money, even what might be required for filing fees. There would be no point in doing it without support.

Seems to me that Democrats have effectively bailed out of putting up an electoral fight over the war. They're not willing to oppose their party incumbents, no matter how they vote.

The next presidential election is in 2008, so there is plenty of time for us to come up with a candidate, if one could be found.

G.D. Dem -- Your defense of Feingold's statement seems about as bizarre as his statement. This kind of weird thinking is what keeps Democrat progressives from being relevant. Come back down to earth with the rest of us.

Pacific Greens will run more candidates in the fall 27.Mar.2006 16:36

PGP Person

The Pacific Greens are allowed to have more than one nominating convention. It is one of the few benefits of being a "minor" party. (We don't have a taxpayer funded primary)
The March 11th convention was for the purpose of nominating a candidate for governor. We had two strong candidates vying for our nomination. Long time activist Joe Keating won the nomination.
We will have another nominating convention in June (minor party candidates are not allowed to file with the secretary of state's office until after the May primary date) at which we will nominate candidates at every level.
Stay tuned!

It's not an occupation it's an...ahh... umm.... 27.Mar.2006 17:22

Converse Murdoch umlaut@idir.net

Well it's something else anyway. The propaganda machine isn't doing a very good job of defining this. They really need to come up with some phrase to define the mission better.

"The long war " - maybe true but not great salesmanship.

"It's a temporary police action to insure a free future for Iraq " - yeah that'll work. It makes it sounds like it's almost over and it's got a nice upbeat feel to it. They can milk this one for a decade or two.

They need to come up with catchy phrase to define the moderate position which keeps it going. The pundits should start saying " Of course I'm against the war, but I'm for a free Iraq. " That way people can be against the war yet still support it.

Next we'll need -The Feingold Plan - the ultimate solution. We'll give Haliburton a zillion dollars to build schools in Iraq and educate these people on how to tell the difference between an occupation and whatever else Feingold wants to call it.

PGP Person 28.Mar.2006 00:24

George Bender

Glad to hear it. There may yet be hope. I'd like to see you run someone against DeFazio, so I can vote against the war. Last I heard the Eugene greens had evaporated. Someone told me that most of them decided to be Democrats again. Democratcy is a disease, and it's catching.

well, let's see... 28.Mar.2006 10:40


Well, the Wisc green party is formally asking Feingold to leave
the dems and join their party. They're citing that dems running
away from him on issues lately is showing themselves as disempowered
and that the greens are on their way up, when the dems are maybe even
too far gone already.

They make a good point I think. Although they seemed a little disempowered
themselves in the last national elections, eh? Maybe they're "gambling"
(sorry Abramoff) that it's a WIN/WIN for both Feingold and them.

Well, to go with it, and see what takes, I suggest we start pushing out
ideas like "McKinney/Feingold" or "Obama/Feingold" because guess what it
seems to brewing from his side? Yupper, McCain/Feingold again.

Let's see...