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Open letter to the Green Anarchy Collective

Today we are writing to you in hopes that you, the Green Anarchy Collective, will take a good look at the theoretical direction of Green Anarchy magazine and how it relates to action. We also would like you to step out of the Anarchist frame of reference to see why you are marginalizing yourselves into an abstract reality.
Open letter to the Green Anarchy Collective

Today we are writing to you in hopes that you, the Green Anarchy Collective, will take a good look at the theoretical direction of Green Anarchy magazine and how it relates to action. We also would like you to step out of the Anarchist frame of reference to see why you are marginalizing yourselves into an abstract reality.

After receiving issues #1-21 there doesn't seem to be a coherent vision of action that can be linked up with the theoretical aspirations written in your publication. Lots of writing but no concrete action that would actually serve as an example to build upon. Perhaps you would point to Wild Roots or the feral visions gatherings. We do not discount these efforts but these are not A to B examples; these represent Temporary Autonomous Zones at best. Examples are one of the ways that makes Anarchy accessible to people by showing them that there is indeed another way. We want to stress that most of what is written in Green Anarchy is not accessible to most people and does not serve to promote a greater understanding of one another and our struggles. The rejection of civilization or technology with in G.A.'s pages is fine except that no viable alternative is offered in the face of an obviously terrible dystopia. The only reason why Anarchy even exists is because it does have practical applications in this modern world. Without the ability for theory to be put into practice it remains an abstract knowledge relegated to cliques and intellectual study groups. Hopefully Green Anarchy aspires to be more than a lifestyle movement instead of its current state of theoretical discourse. .

Anarchy exists today because some people find it useful in the struggle for a different way of living. Let us step out of the Anarchist milieu for just a moment as it can give you a much-needed perspective. When people are first approached with the idea of Anarchy and class struggle and ecology and all the other things that go along with it, they are often repelled by a lot of the things that Green Anarchy magazine can sometimes exemplify. Green Anarchy does have some good aspects with the occasional importance critique, but the way in which they are presented and how they would play out in real life is a different story. For someone that works in a furniture shop or is homeless or is a radical, most of the ideas are presented in such a way that it is almost a joke to them because of the tone, the attitude, and general fetishization of anti-social violence that occurs with in the pages of this magazine. Also, the fact that G.A. denounces everything from paper to writing doesn't stand-up well for a magazine that is made with paper and words. Further more, a lot of people in America find it very hard to imagine a real functioning world without the state, pesticides, cars, and police. Perhaps Green Anarchy could be more constructive in its proposition to these people. People aren't going to huddle in the corner tonight because they are cold; they are going to turn on their nuclear powered electricity that in turn will heat their place. They also aren't going to huddle in the corner cold or go hungry because of Green Anarchy magazine and its rejection of civilized life. For some reason this falls out of the Green Anarchist thought process. Word to the wise, don't start shutting off the fossil fuel that powers the heating systems until you know that people are going to be warm at night by another means.

Which brings us to the main point of this letter

Green Anarchy has had a wonderful opportunity to explore a number of subjects that could only add to the knowledge of Anarchy, but they have chosen to piss that away with a dismal view of our very existence. Unfortunately, the Green Anarchy Collective has also chosen to publish articles that include extreme sectarianism and character assassinations, among many other undesirable characteristics.

Shall we explore examples of this in the latest issue of Green Anarchy #21!

One example of sectarianism can be found on page 66, entitled: News from the Balcony. It is basically a slam against NEFAC or whatever they are called now and how lame they are. Calling them "Anarcho-Organizationlists" and how they dull their minds with endless meetings among other things. It seems that Green Anarchy can pick apart their fellow Anarchists with ease, but once again, doesn't offer a viable solution to today's problems.

Another can be seen on page 67, entitled: 25 years of radical charity. It talks about Food not Bombs and how they are of course, some type of charity organization. It questions if they are really interested in helping people or if they just want to do something. Then, and this is a rarity here, they do actually suggest an alternative to FnB. They suggest rewilding cities and hunting urban road kill. Ultimately, they are called Food not Bombs, NOT Food not Lawns, which does that type of thing. This is very strange to us in that someone would hassle FnB over their actually existence. It seems very hard to pester them about their core values and call them a charity organization when we all know the time and energy it takes to prepare large meals. It goes without saying that many people have spent many nights in jail for their commitment to "helping" people.

Another example can be found on Page 22-23, entitled: Winds of Anticipation. The article almost glorifies people's death and destruction. The most arrogant statements can be found on page 23, towards the end of the article. It scolds Anarchists that are raising funds for people in need and transporting supplies. This is how detached from the world G.A. is! Fools! You think that people in that situation give a flying fuck about your theoretical ramblings. Why aren't you down there showing people how to get their own food without supermarkets? Once again, full circle, Green Anarchy is not about action, it is about discussion in a magazine, which then makes it irrelevant to any real social struggle that could fundamentally change those people affected by adverse conditions.

We are writing this to you from Madison, Wisconsin.
We write to you because we see GA floating further and further away from genuinely caring about people and everyday struggles. We represent "dissent in your own ranks" because of the way you treat the leftist and the post-leftist anarchists with unrelenting criticism and disrespect combined with your excellent ability to theorize yourself into oblivion. We have talked to many people about GA and it seems that we are not alone in this critique. Some of us consider ourselves Eco-Anarchists while others have no labels. Some are interested in the critique of technology, civilization, and industrialism; still others are classical class strugglers. Some of us belong to organizations, while others prefer loose affinity groups. Some of us are interested in struggling with all of these things in mind. However, sectarianism, unconstructive criticizing, and arguing over petty discourse will get you one big bureaucratic State. Action makes Anarchy, whether that is a collective workshop, community gardens, living off the grid with friends, or smashing corporate property. All of these are not always Anarchist but do strike a cord with many Anti-Authoritarians. .

A suggestion on what you could do: A different direction!
Instead of sectarianism and a narrow mindset, maybe you could show us how we could start community gardens, roof top gardens, getting off the grid and living well, or maybe you could give us some technical advise on any number of things that could include dare I say solar heating, compost toilets, making bamboo drinking cups. Maybe talk to us about some direct action that would include a cement cutter and some trees. Try to reach out to non-Anarchist groups to show them how radical ecology can be applied to their life and how it benefits them and the earth. These suggestions represent a small fraction of what you could have been doing instead of some of things cited earlier in this letter.

If you can't take the heat... 13.Feb.2006 17:28


You know- These criticisms of GA have been around since the magazine started years back.

Obvioulsy, GA has an audience and a dedicated collective who puts out a consistent and well consructed magazine. If it did not, the magazine would no longer exist.

They are what they are. If you cant take the heat then stay out the kitchen! In other words, if you don't like GA then stop reading it.

If GA wants to focus on theory they can do so - why does this seem to threaten so many Anarchists?

If you have ideas, then YOU should form a collective and initate your own magazine. Thats a real action that You can take.

Way to miss a point 13.Feb.2006 18:49

Green Man-archy

Now wouldn't it be great if GA took your advice and stopped criticizing stuff that's been criticized before. In fact, we could all just pack up and go home if we followed your advice. You are so smart!

filling in the niches... 13.Feb.2006 20:02

coming around

green anarchy serves a purpose that no one else is providing right now. you write:

"Instead of sectarianism and a narrow mindset, maybe you could show us how we could start community gardens, roof top gardens, getting off the grid and living well, or maybe you could give us some technical advise on any number of things that could include dare I say solar heating, compost toilets, making bamboo drinking cups. Maybe talk to us about some direct action that would include a cement cutter and some trees. Try to reach out to non-Anarchist groups to show them how radical ecology can be applied to their life and how it benefits them and the earth. "

there are lots of magazines doing that nowadays, and many of them are not very radical at all. a great one is the permaculture activist, permacultureactivist.net. also check out inthewake.org, an excellent anti-civ site that is all about living off the grid while we take it down.
green anarchy does something no one else does - the action updates. where else do people find out about that stuff? the articles are not always relevant to many people and some get turned off by it, but there has to be people pushing the theoretical envelope to advance understanding and analysis. this will inevitably be way out there for most people who don't think about this stuff, but that's the way it's always been for as long as there have been discussions with words.

I question the validity of these concerns, but I'm not entirely sure why, even. 13.Feb.2006 20:22


I think it's the timing that's bugging me, but I'm not sure.
Either way, I must ask why it's important to the original
author, or all of us, that a magazine change its paradigms.

If you feel that strongly about it, why don't you get so
superactive writing stories that they'll print at least
a few of them, or something.

Or I know, write a story for their arch nemesis, the Slingshot!!!

One that will make them so jealous that their enmigo scooped them,
they'll be willing to publish your followup. Yeah, that's the

Get involved or something.


Voluntary Human Extinction 13.Feb.2006 20:22


Regarding this; same story - old news,

I don't mind the things GA says, to me it is entertainment. Really, it is okay to rant about all the bad things with everything if it makes you feel better. As long as you don't take it with too much seriousness, it's great fun reading. It does make you think; about just how fucked up everything is. Yes, even FNB, ouch.

But isn't there anything we can do to make things better? Easy, just hole up in your cave, read GA and wait for total disaster; and then eat rats.

You would think it would cause people to think 13.Feb.2006 21:59

Tony C.

Oddly enough I'd hoped that releasing this document would actually make people think about the things that are turning people off to any kind of social struggle. I mean, why can't we take a serious look at GA? Why would we look at it as entertainment? I don't consider real social struggle to be entertainment; further more I don't take Anarchist politics as entertainment and to portray them as such would be to undermine my own values. This is real life folks, can't we see that alot of the things put forth in this movement really don't make any sense nor do they have any practical value in the arena of action? I don't want quick remarks or smarmy name calling; is there no reason why we can't have an honest discussion?

Interested 13.Feb.2006 22:54

double rainbow

I'm very interested in how people can actually organize without heirarchy, how self-representation could actually exist in free and self-producing community and how I can make it happen in my own way. These are the good and interestingly tough questions that anyone truly interested in anarchy as practice and not an ideology will be facing today and forever. Guy Debord's critique of Anarchist thought in his 1967 book Society of the Spectacle ("The Proletariat as Subject and Representation) puts most of its failings as a group of theory and ideology into perspective. Perhaps this would help you understand the natural failings of anarchist theory in general and not feel so bad to realize its roots in contemplation?

. 13.Feb.2006 23:11


Don't worry Tony. The GA clique will attack you for offering an attempt at constructive criticism. I think your open letter is good and raises some valid and worthwhile points. I do think that it will go nowhere. GA has marginalized itself into irrelevancy and is now mostly an expression of a nihilist, defeatist attitude. It is still useful for someone who has never read some of those perspectives, but like some socialist rags, it is a tired reflection of something which once had vitality.

That is how it is. Thing are born, grow old and die. New things are born. It is the way of life.

Where have all the dandelions gone? 14.Feb.2006 00:13


I have the same concerns.

I am also concerned that "Green Anarchism" has lost or is at least losing its original meaning. It is now merely identified with Green Anarchy's sectarian brand of neo-primitivism.

The best solution is to create our own green, anarchist space, strengthen our own community and reach out and connect our communities together. Take direct action.

GA might respond 14.Feb.2006 01:01


to somebody able to distinguish between a "lifestyle movement" and a "theoretical discourse".

Although, being committed anarchists, they will more likely continue to please themselves.

Going Nowhere . . . 14.Feb.2006 01:51


Thank you for your open letter. The truth is GA offers no alternative because the only one they have is a total nightmare. Perhaps if billions of people were to die and humans were reduced to a barbaric existence, we could acheive their 'hunter gatherer' neo-primitivist ideal. This has nothing to do with anarchism. Anarchism is about freedom and possibility. GA is perverse, in the literal sense of a turning away from nature. How ironic, huh? We can do better than their fucked up dystopianism masquerading as utopianism. Keep the critiques coming and organize for revolution, while the GA folks forge for bugs in the woods praying for disaster.

who the fuck is "WE?" 14.Feb.2006 09:03

kirsten anderberg kirstena@resist.ca

This whole article starts off saying "WE" think this or that.
Who the hell is WE?
I HATE people who try to pretend they are groups of people when they are one person.
Tony, who is WE and why are YOU the only one speaking? The proper use would be "I" in this case, unless you identify who the WE is!

I, also, see this post as bullshit. Food Not BOmbs being a charity scene is a valid point to explore without dissing FNB. The idea is we should not NEED FNB. We should have access to FOOD. Food should not be a weapon. The temp fix of FNB is needed UNTIL we get access to food. But the two things do not cancel each other out. I felt the whole critique lacked substance when aimed at anarchy, honestly. Tony or "WE" missed many very important points. Like it is not mutually exclusive to theorize and do action simultaneously. They do not cancel each other out.

I have to say that I think Green Anarchy collective has been one of the more forward moving of the anarchy press offerings, and I just think this critique is lacking substance in all directions. On my SEXISM WATCH PAGE at  http://users.resist.ca/~kirstena/pagesexismwatch.html I gave all of the anarchy mags an F for not including women, and Green Anarchy was the ONLY one to get a C for including women authors in some capacity that was noticable and consistent.

Kirsten 14.Feb.2006 09:38


Grading a paper by the apparent femiminity of their pen names is stupid. Pen names are fake. And how do you grade anonymous authors? Also, "I HATE people who try to pretend they are groups of people when they are one person." Why should I care who you hate? Caring who GA authors hate is also a waste of time.

Yeah 14.Feb.2006 09:57

Tony C.

Just some thoughts that have been going around in the Madison A scene for a while. I assembled some thoughts on paper that where made through some individuals and assembled them into a letter. I passed this letter around to some folks before I put it out there. Thought I'd try to open up discussion!? Why can't we talk about some problems here? This was not supposed to be some kind of silly game. Once again, Why can't we have a serious discussion about GA?

implosion at its best 14.Feb.2006 11:21

Outsider looking in

One short concise observation. As the natural and societal worlds are cascading towards armegedon, you folks are bickering like third graders. What you all need to do is stop over analyzing your differences and concentrate on combining your strengths to fight the corporate machine. Your polemics all smell of elitist selfishness.

interesting 14.Feb.2006 11:53


I think, given the tone of the original critique, people should step back for a moment and clear the agitation.

This is supposed to be a dialogue, as far as I can tell. Maybe featuring this will get it some more attention and, in turn, more input.

WE WE 14.Feb.2006 12:57

W & S


While Tony's letter has some valid points and not everything in GA pages speaks to our condition "WE" wanted to just say "WE" are not a part of the "WE" in this letter.

From the Balcony of our Basement...
D and K, Madison's Waldorf and Statler

Life-style Anarchists - Hello? 14.Feb.2006 18:42


Any 'life-style anarchists' out there? No, I didn't think so.

< But what is lifestyle anarchism? [Murray] Bookchin described it as follows, attracting much hostility from many self-declared anarchists: 'spray-can graffiti, postmodernist nihilism, antirationalism, neoprimitivism, antitechnologism, neo-Situationism, cultural terrorism, mysticism', i.e. any form of activity in which, as he puts it, 'the sporadic, the unsystematic, the incoherent, the discontinuous, and the intuitive supplant the consistent, purposive, organized and rational, indeed any form of sustained and focused activity apart from publishing a "zine" or pamphlet—or burning a garbage tin', or as he summarised these behaviours, all those activities which articulate Foucault's approach of 'personal insurrection rather than social revolution'.>

--- From "The bankruptcy of anarchism as an antisystemic movement" by Takis Fotopoulos

It's doubtful whether any people today self-identify as 'life-style anarchists' - rather they would refuse to describe themselves beyond the term 'anarchist' because of the highly individualistic nature of their 'anarchism'! Some may call themselves 'green' - some may actually be 'green' (as in immature) - but what are the multiple shades of anarchism really all about? It's all about distinguishing yourself from others, so as to preserve your precious anti-collectivist ass!

How typical of a contemporary American anarchist to begin with "me" -- "I can't speak for all anarchists, but ... " and "myself, what I think is ... ". It's the ME MYSELF AND I thing. It's individualism carried to the point where any planned or organized mass action has become suspect - and any effective mass movement impossible.

"Screw the social revolution, I'm doing my own personal insurrection."

"The organizers of the demo were fukt!"

"What's the point in another demo - I'll just stay home and get high."

"Me too, I'm just going to do MY thing, horizontally (with people LIKE ME) in MY OWN neighborhood."

"Voting? Organizing into political parties? You gotta be crazy!"

"The only thing worse than the Dems is the Greens!"

That's all fine and dandy - but you have to wonder how these same people can be so disdainful of the Baby Boomers for their self-centered abandonment of meaningful social activism - just when the future needed them most.

The other side of the same coin are the 'identity movements' - which serve to splinter all mass movements directed at transforming the socio-economic system. Those 'identity' groupings are only slightly less individualistic than any other post-modern version of anarchism: instead of what 'ME MYSELF AND I' think, it's the central identity that 'ME MYSELF AND I' give myself. Ooops, sorry, you didn't give it to yourself - society forced it on you! Any way you slice it, it's still all about you as different from others and not much about you as part of a universal collective - the human race.

In his comments, Takis Fotopoulos considers also the first cousins of 'lifestyle' anarchists: the 'pragmatic' anarchists who rejoice in such things as "co-ops, community supported agriculture, eco-villages [and] permaculture". He points out, for example, that "various anarchist currents that extol the virtues of co-ops, which they consider as 'anarchism in its latest practical manifestation' [are] so politically harmless that the political elites frequently use them for their own ends".

The various phenomena of 'pragmatic anarchism', Fotopoulos points out, "are utterly ineffective in bringing about a systemic change. Although helpful in creating an alternative culture among small sections of the population and, at the same time, morale boosting for activists who wish to see an immediate change in their lives, this approach does not have any chance of success--in the context of today's huge concentration of power—to create the democratic majority needed for systemic social change."

"In the USA, anarchists today are mainly influenced by individualistic anarchism, postmodernism and irrationalism, the main trends in today's' anarchism."

Fotopoulos IS a lifestyle anarchist 14.Feb.2006 19:06

reader zero

Fotopoulos is one of the WSF intellectual elite - along with others such as Arundhati Roy, Immanuel Wallerstein, Vandana Shiva, Samir Amin, Aleksandr Buzgalin and François Houtart

What positive program do any of them - or all of them together - give us? Like all the rest of the world, their idea is to wait and see ... wait for the world to crumble after peak oil ... wait for the oppressed peoples to unite against global capital ... wait for the American Sheeple to attain enlightenment. They are commentators on the sidelines watching ... not even participating in the WSF parades. They have some okay thinking to contribute ... but they are as unable as you or me to come up with the answer to the question of where do we go from here?

What do they amount to? The intelligentsia are themselves lifestyle or pragmatic anarchists ... at best into street demonstrations for their own sake and without a clue as to how to jumpstart the "new kind" of global antisystemic movement that they all proclaim as what is urgently needed.

warms the hearth fire of community 14.Feb.2006 19:40


i deeply believe the roots of looking down at feeding people as entrenched in the hate/fear of the feminine principal. if only the couragous acts of warriors are valued then many will be excluded from this club. fnb provides a necessary bringing together of comunity with sustanance,this is an old tadition that breaks down the isolation of the nuclear family and the earth mother smiles upon.feeding people from the cauldron stirred with the majic spoon of healing.....

Food Not Bombs 14.Feb.2006 20:14

reader zero

'WE' hear you, Brigid!

the WORLD is GOING to HELL 14.Feb.2006 21:02


> utterly ineffective in bringing about a systemic change

Given the current state of the world, everybody can make this "critique" of everybody else. We are all "utterly ineffective in bringing about a systemic change." If this proves that anybody's approach is flawed, then it proves that all our approaches are flawed.

pathetic 14.Feb.2006 21:23

damned if you do... damned if you don't

tony, maybe next time you can leave out the name-calling and condescending attitude if you really are concerned about "unconstructive criticizing". that was the first exasperating thing i noticed in your "open letter"--so typical. if i were a GA person, i wouldn't feel constructively engaged. (not that i'm opposed to name-calling, just the oppressive public stupidity of people like you)

hey, maybe there aren't any "viable solutions to today's problems", tony. maybe they're intractable. maybe your vision of willful, organized, mass social change is a mirage. maybe most people, particularly in the relatively-comfortable parts of the world, aren't interested in the revolution you're hawking, any more than they're interested in voluntarily "re-wilding" on their days off. maybe industrial civilization is destined to collapse around us (maybe, in some parts of the world, that is what will unleash an anarchistic flowering of "freedom and possibility")--maybe it already is. shit, maybe humans are biologically unsustainable as a species--maybe the survival-instinct-at-all-cost crossed with our brains, hands, complex language, etc. have been, are, and will be our ultimate undoing. or, maybe not. maybe the sun will exhaust itself ahead of schedule.

maybe that makes me a nihilist or a fatalist under your anarcho-microscope... (however, i also support groups like fnb, support gov't social programs in the name of minimizing suffering as much as possible right now, and support elf and alf direct actions for similar reasons... hmmm)

to close, i doubt the the hypothetical lady (whether soccer mom or wal-mart greeter) in the supermarket checkout line would be any more interested in tony's "critique" than GA's magazine, or, for that matter, in organizing for some sort of vaunted "social revolution". i doubt she'd be receptive to much of bakunin's nonsense (must be an iww member...) either, and i doubt she'd be able to relate to the majority of neurotic, over-educated "activists" she'd encounter if she "got involved" in "the movement"--people who very often can't even walk the talk in their own everyday lives. maybe this is the same reason that some people choose to "just... do MY thing, horizontally (with people LIKE ME) in MY OWN neighborhood."--small-scale, everyday things with decent people you know not to be wingnuts or crusading, dogmatic, big-mouthed "organizers" (or freaks-in-limbo?)--things you can touch and feel.

all the ism's, including anarchism, and certainly primitivism, are bankrupt. they are all part of the same machine, hurtling towards its inevitable oblivian. let's keep bickering!

Blah, Blah, Blah 15.Feb.2006 08:15


There's nothing to say
It's all been said before
Why even get up off the floor
Because nothing really matters anymore

Sign of the times
Sign of the times

And who knows what's best
People seem to care less and less
Where all hanging around for Armageddon
When you think about it, its pretty upsetting

Sign of the times
Sign of the times

Pathetic 15.Feb.2006 10:05


This tread is pathetic. Time for you tired ass cynics to retire and let a new generation take over. Most of you obviously have no gas left in your tanks. You can watch the revolution from your bunkers.

How did you guess? 15.Feb.2006 10:30


"majority of neurotic, over-educated "activists" she'd encounter if she "got involved" in "the movement"--people who very often can't even walk the talk in their own everyday lives"

Hey "damned if you do... damned if you don't" you described the Madison,uh... amen, resistance scene (cough, cough) to a tee!!!

WE 15.Feb.2006 11:28


WE is Wi. i did not see this letter before it's publish but i can say as a vegan chedder head that most eco people in Wi. are turned off by G.A. I myself would have written something along those lines along time ago if i thought it would do anything but stir the "thecno-primitivists" pot into a useless frenzy.

It would seem that there will be no discussion here. Only two ideas and one open mind(s)

The technocrat elite of the green movement will very soon wipe themselves out of existance. It is up to us as a movement to continue the struggle. Next time lets start a magazine with a title that reflects the contents. Not cyinicall but transparent. In other word don't call the latest hacktavist zine the "Neo-primitiv" becuse you can link hackers to the word primitiv due to thier nack to hack code, and neo being the new form of activism. It may seem cute to me now but for the kid who reads it my pune will be dumb.

MKE 15.Feb.2006 13:25


You are seriously attempting to represent the eco-activists of Wisconsin? Give me a break! As a former Madison resident I do not share your perspective. The issues I have with GA are nuanced; they are specific. These broad-based attack on the internet is pathetic. Be specific people, these generalities are petty and useless.

RE:pathetic 15.Feb.2006 13:52

ISMIST godess of the suffix

So you are a nihilist and a fatalist and are opposed to anarchism and primitivism. Alone i have no problem with this but to be opposed to the suffix in question is really what i find most pathetic in this entire web-site including the hidden comments. ISM or IST does it fucking matter, is this what we should be bickering about? An M or a T?

Get a f*ing dictionary and learn how to correctly use these words that have such powerful meanings. If this was done by at least one of five of these people who claim ISM or IST the values of these words can be restored. Once we have gained faith in our selves and the words in witch we define who we are only then can we achieve our fate.

bakunin and ismist 15.Feb.2006 16:23

damned if you do... damned if you don't

let me clarify:

i think there is something inherently suspect about attaching an 'ism' to yourself. sorry.
that said, in certain social contexts, i identify myself with an ism--usually i say, "well, if you hand me a menu with all the contemporary political ideologies on it, i will always choose anarchism because of its fairly honest appraisal of the tension between the individual and the community in modern society", or something like that. i'm certainly not "opposed" to anarchism, and my personal perspective is that the only remotely sustainable existence we have ever had here on earth is as hunter-gatherers. particularly on the pleistocene savannah, where we evolved into the human minds and bodies we know today. the word "primitivist" has never sat well with me, and some of the people who have adopted that term (including what i know of the ga collective) haven't changed my gut feeling about it. all of that said, i refuse to only feel hopeless about everything, and continue to engage the world we have before us today--in fact, i often ENJOY it (whoa!), whether i'm riding my bike accross the broadway bridge on a beautiful day, having a drink at holocene staring at cute boys, or collecting eggs from the chicken coop in my backyard. it's a crazy-assed time to be alive.

"Once we have gained faith in our selves and the words in witch we define who we are only then can we achieve our fate." this makes no sense to me. achieve our fate? not sure witch one of us needs a dictionary...

"This tread is pathetic. Time for you tired ass cynics to retire and let a new generation take over. Most of you obviously have no gas left in your tanks. You can watch the revolution from your bunkers."
bakunin, you should try to maintain a little cognitive dissonance. it might help you to pick up on some of the nuances of this discussion. i do appreciate the "gas left in your tanks" analogy, though. that was funny.

Life It's Ownself..... 15.Feb.2006 17:36


Reg: The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.
Stan: Yeah, the Judean People's Front.
Reg: Yeah.
Stan: And the Popular Front of Judea.
Reg: Yeah.
Stan: And the People's Front of Judea.
Reg: Yea... what?
Stan: The People's Front of Judea.
Reg: We're the People's Front of Judea!
Stan: I thought we were the Popular Front.
Reg: People's Front!
Francis: What ever happened to the Popular Front?
Reg: He's over there. [points to a lone man]
Reg, Stan, Francis, Judith: SPLITTER!
Brian: Are you the Judean People's Front?
Reg: Fuck off! We're the People's Front of Judea.

I live in Madison 15.Feb.2006 21:57


I live in Madison and I'm not part of any "anarchist scene" here that Tony C. might be referring to because I haven't gone out of my way to meet anarchists in Madison. I owe very much to Green Anarchy magazine for introducing me to anarcho-primitivism. I love reading it but of course not everything will jibe well with everyone, Tony C., it's a mixed bag, it's an anarchist magazine what do you expect? You've got to respect GA for what it is: the foremost anti-civ publication. I think it's ridiculous to criticize GA for lacking action when they publish so many accounts of direct action. I don't like to criticize anyone for not taking action because I'm not yet in the situation where I can fully do so myself and I don't believe that everyone should be taking action, the system will destroy itself regardless. Call me a collapsist, but I don't think it makes a bit of difference if people blow up buildings or get a job and watch TV, civilization will end either way, there's no doubting that. That being said, it is my goal to take action against civilization that will enable me to lead a meaningful existence, and to do something meaningful for those close to me, perhaps inspire them. I don't give a fuck about any GA "movement", I'm going to do my own thing which will involve a hunter/gatherer lifestyle. What does it matter if green anarchy is inapprochable to most people and they're not going to accept it or be convinced of it? I don't think green anarchists want to take over the world and convince everyone their ideas are the best. I'm glad GA pisses people off like Tony C., why should they compromise for anyone?

I am very thankful that GA magazine critiques everything, otherwise my eyes may never have been fully opened to the ways in which the totality of civilization dominates our lives and attempts to enslave all life. If I had been stuck reading standard anarchist mags that aren't hypercritical of the social disaster we inhabit I may have never fully realized my wild desires.

There is no need for a magazine to tell us how to take action. Just climb a tree or go running through the woods barefoot or naked. Play in the snow. Just close your eyes and listen to your heart's desires. When I do this I know that we are all wild animals waiting to be unleashed from our cages. Rewilding is resistance, and only your wild instinctual self can tell you how to break these chains.

Enough talk and bickering anarchists. Let's play!

FATUM 16.Feb.2006 03:22


As defined by the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary

1. The power or agency which, according to popular belief, predetermines all events from eternity.b) MYTHOLOGY. A goddess of destiny, esp. each of the three Greek, Roman, or Scandinavian goddess of destiny.
2. That which is destined to happen, esp. to a person; a person's or thing's appointed lot.b) The ultimate condition of a person or thing.

A.noun. A person who believes or accepts that all events are predetermined by fate.
B.adjective. Of or pertaining to fatalism or fatalists.

1. Belief in fatality; the doctrine that all events are predetermined by fate.
2. Submission to or compliance with this doctrine.

1. Absence of government in a society(orig.as a source of civil disorder, later also as a political ideal); a state of political or social confusion; absolute freedom of the individual.
2.transf.&fig. Absence or non-recognition of authority in any sphere; moral or intellectual conflict; a state of dis-order; chaos

An advocate of anarchy; a person who believes that all government should be abolished.

The principles or practice of anarchy or anarchists.

1. The quality or state of being nothing; non-existence, nullity.
2. A mere nothing, a trifle; a nullity.

1. A believer in nihilism.
2. Hist. A member of a revolutionary party in 19th-cent. and early 20th-cent. Russia which sought the complete overthrow of the established order and was willing to use terrorism to achieve this end.
Of or pertaining to nihilists or nihilism.

1. Total rejection of current religious beliefs or moral principles, often involving a general sense of despair and the belief that life is devoid of meaning.
2.a)PHILOSOPHY. An extreme form of scepticism, involving the denial of all existence. b)PSYCHOLOGY. The delusional belief that something (even the outside world or the patient's self) has ceased to exist or to function.
3. Nothingness, non-existance.
4.Hist. The doctrines or principles of the Russian Nihilists.

A.(noun)1. A person who escapes or tries to escape from captivity etc. 2. A person who seeks distraction or relief from reality or who indulges in escapism.
B.(adjective) Providing distraction or relief from reality; involving or characteristics of escapism.

The tendency to seek, or practice of seeking, distraction or relief from reality.

Primitive is a very long definition and i just don't feel like wasteing my time because i feel the word is misused. I believe in most cases escapist can be used to define the "primitiveist" person or thier ideals.

Counterrevolutionaries! I can smell ‘em a mile away! 17.Feb.2006 09:42


The only people we hate more than the Green Anarchy Collective are the fucking Judean People's Front!