Any legal help needed?

It seems dangerous to be "learning" investigation on people who "need" legal help!

Give me a break, Kirsten. Do you really think that's how an internship, apprenticeship, OJT, etc. works? Get real. I would think you, of all people, would appreciate learning skills by doing them, the value of practical experience and attempting to pursue a meaningful, rewarding career.

Why all the negativity here? This was a sincere attempt to offer free work in exchange for the chance to learn new skills - under supervision, of course. Sorry if that's so offensive. That's also why it was posted in the QUESTIONS section - not the newswire. I'm amazed at all the effort some folks go to to diss others. Why be so hateful?

Divide and conquer...

mr

It is not hateful to be real. I have had an investigator "in training" screw up a criminal case re me before. I found it to be egregious this person decided to "learn" investigation on my felony charges. As an investigator previously, I found it appalling that this person had ZERO skills, and yet was assigned by the public defender to investigate my case and interview witnesses! She did such a freakin dismal job that she was part of how I was convicted! It was unreal! If I had known we were "playing" investigator with state funds on felony charges, I would have HIRED a private investigator for my case.

If you want to LEARN investigation, you need to 1) go to an investigative school and if you are in voch tech, the state should pay for that as it would any other career training and 2) it just is too serious for you to "practice" on real people. Sorry. You need training, not practice, is my assessment of this.

OK, Kirsten, I'll bite. Since you've chosen to impart your words of wisdom (aka cynical critisicm) without knowing anything about my circumstances, I'll get into this.

First of all, I AM going to school, but since I'm a single mom on TANF and am only allowed to pursue an education for a maximum of one year, I need to start looking for work now. I've evaluated most of the "investigative schools" you speak of, as well as the requirements for licensure in Oregon. I've been fighting for 3 years now to be allowed to go to school, and have had to jump through innumerable hoops and "prove" myself repeatedly, so I've done my homework.

To become licensed, Oregon requires only 1,500 hours of experience in investigatory work, with the option of substituting applicable education for up to 500 hours of the required work experience. A provisional license will be issued to anyone who can meet the other requirements (i.e., bonding, background checks, etc.) but does not meet the exp/ed requirements. Did you catch that? They will issue a provisional license without experience OR education.

As for the "investigative schools" you speak so highly of...
Per the OR Board of Investigation (OBI), there are only 3 that are licensed by the Oregon Dept of Ed. One did not even reply to the many iquiries I made. Another is new, and though they did return my calls, I still haven't been able to speak to anyone yet - extreme telephone tag. Not the most reputable impression to make, in my opinion. The last is a short-term training program, run by an investigative firm, and it incorporates an internship (OJT) as part of the program. It's very expensive. It's also located in Salem - a bit of a stretch for me, distance-wise, since neither TANF or OVRS is willing to pay to maintain, insure and provide that much gas for my car.

My other options are an online program - of which there are plenty - but again, they're of questionable integrity, and the OBI may or may not accept the program (you have to get a ruling from them). OVRS is understandably reluctant to invest scarce funds on these, though we are exploring some of the more promising ones further. Certification is provided by many different organizations, basically anyone who wants to set one up, though again, some appear more reputable than others. Uniform education, certification and licensing standards are a big issue in this industry right now, but have yet to be established.

So... I am working with a specialist from the college to design my own program which will hopefully, incorporate a volunteer position RELATED to the field. I have no illusions of grandeur, and do not want to be turned loose to do criminal defense investigation "experimentally" on some poor soul. You are not the only one with integrity, a code of ethics or common sense. I resent your inference that I have none.

And why did you assume criminal defense is the only area of legal investigation? While ultimately I do aspire to that (I think), there are so many other avenues for this type of work and I was just hoping to identify some here. If I'm not mistaken, IndyMedia was a response from citizen (non-professional) reporters "on the frontlines of the struggle for justice against tyranny". Arguably, legal investigators in training.

It's obviously unrealistic to believe I'd be put immediately into service as a full-fledged, autonomous invesigator. We were thinking more along the lines of research assistance, clerical support, or something more basic to begin with. An apprentice carpenter is not sent off to build a house alone, you know?

Finally, Kirsten, I'm sorry for what happened to you. That's part of why I want to do this type of work - to even the scales of justice a bit for those who aren't rich or well connected. Like you. Like me. Like so many others out there. I've gotten beaten down by so many for having the audacity to try to pursue my dream - after all, as a welfare mom, I'm scum (slutty, stupid, lazy, sneaky, drug addicted; pick your stereotype, there's plenty). But you know how that feels, don't you? Perhaps that's where your cynicism and apparently automatic antagonism comes from.

If, as you say, you were an investigator previously, you should know about licensing and education. But the generalities in your "advise" to me don't show it. Please, where did you get your investigative training? I'm in interested in finding a credible program. Give me some practical direction.

And, you should also know you are blaming the wrong person, in your case. Your attorney has ultimate responsibility for your case, and if the investigator was not properly trained or supervised, it's not the investigator's fault. I, personally, would not put myself in this position, but that's me. I also have to wonder, if you were able to hire a private investigator, why didn't you? If you had those financial resources, why risk your freedom on a public defender?

Your attitude is one of the reasons I DON'T want to get into indigent criminal defense - this illusion that state funds are paying for substandard services. While I have no doubt incompetence exists, in the public sector as well as the private, the people doing these jobs are expected to do more work with less resources every year. They have insane case loads, and earn significantly less than their counterparts in the private sector, because they believe in the ideal of equal justice for all. Don't blame them if the neocons in power don't adequately fund or support services adequately.

Without getting into all the details, I was involved in a federal civil suit and was represented by Legal Aid Services of Oregon and the Oregon Law Center. Without exception, I found everyone there - from the office staff to the attorneys to the directors - to be highly qualified, skilled and dedicated. They believed and helped me when no one else would. They gave me the strength and resources I needed to stand up for what's right and we prevailed. It turned my life around and I want to give back a little. Why discourage that?

Inteligent discourse is healthy and IndyMedia would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything. But if we can't stick together - encourage, support, and promote those seeking to improve society as well as their own interests - we're doomed.

Divide and conquer...

Peace,
MR

I am in Texas and you'll need to check on your state laws about this, but I voluteer at my local Police Station for investigating the "not so important" issues such as Idenity Theft, mostly just paperwork and organizing, taking calls and calling different companies for account info. I also do data entry of the detectives completed reports. I don't get paid for it but, it has taught me a lot about credit and I now have a Credit Repair business that I do at home. I learned it all from just being in the office and watching and listening. You may find another line of interest if you do the same but, it is a great way to learn although it is not cheap since you don't get paid and have a child. It is well worth it though and very rewarding. Good Luck!!!