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William C. Rodgers of Prescott, Ariz - Suicide?

It's just getting worse
I just heard on KLCC in Eugene that Rodgers died of affixiation with a plastic bag in his jail cell. Preliminary suggestions are suicide, anybody know more?

DR

excerpt from AP Atricle 22.Dec.2005 16:42

Gumby Cascadia

Article Last Updated: 12/22/2005 04:39 PM

Suspect in ecoterror case found dead

 http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3335286
By The Associated Press
DenverPost.com

Phoenix -An Arizona bookstore owner charged with eco-sabotage in
Washington was found dead in a Flagstaff jail cell early Thursday,
authorities said.

William C. Rodgers, 40, of Prescott, Ariz., committed suicide,
according
to the Coconino County sheriff's office. The county medical examiner
determined that Rodgers suffocated after placing a plastic bag over his
head while he was being held in a one-person cell.

ECOTERROR (?) SUICIDE 22.Dec.2005 16:53

A.P.

ap-or--ecoterror-gerlach<
suspect in ecoterror firebombing found dead in jail<

eugene, ore (ap) _ an oregon woman accused of ecosabotage is now on suicide watch -- after an inmate in arizona committed suicide.
an assistant u-s attorney said during a bail hearing for the woman in eugene today that she was placed on suicide watch because of her close relationship to the arizona inmate.
but gerlach's attorney denied that there was a close relationship.
at the same hearing, the judge denied the woman's request for bail after the u-s attorney told the court that a search of her apartment in portland yesterday had turned up false identification documents with her picture -- and materials to make more.
the judge said that strongly suggested she might try to flee if released on bail.
the u-s attorney also disclosed that gerlach was a suspect in the 2001 arson of a federal wild horse corral in california.
no charges have been filed in that case.

(copyright 2005 by the associated press. all rights reserved.)

confirmed 22.Dec.2005 16:58

by

more than two dozen sources on news.google.

yes it is true 22.Dec.2005 17:02

anon

Article Last Updated: 12/22/2005 04:39 PM

Suspect in ecoterror case found dead

 http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3335286
By The Associated Press
DenverPost.com

Phoenix -An Arizona bookstore owner charged with eco-sabotage in
Washington was found dead in a Flagstaff jail cell early Thursday,
authorities said.

William C. Rodgers, 40, of Prescott, Ariz., committed suicide, according
to the Coconino County sheriff's office. The county medical examiner
determined that Rodgers suffocated after placing a plastic bag over his
head while he was being held in a one-person cell.

Rodgers was one of six people arrested this month in connection with
eco-terrorist attacks in Oregon and Washington in recent years. He was
charged in the firebombing of a government wildlife lab outside Olympia,
Wash.

In an affidavit filed in federal court last week, an FBI agent said
Rodgers attended a meeting of Earth Liberation Front members in western
Colorado where the arson of a Vail, Colo., ski resort was planned.

support 22.Dec.2005 17:06

lxo

the gerlach girl needs some support from us if she has been put on suicide watch. emotions change very quickly when you are put behind bars and the coldness is very bad. is there someone here who might be able to offer a suggestion toward her well being?

send her white light. 22.Dec.2005 17:22

anna

send her white light. there's an acupuncture point on the kidney channel which helps with suicidal ideation - kidney 13 or 14, i believe.

Chelsea is not suicidal 22.Dec.2005 17:26

Gumby Cascadia

She was put on suicide watch because of Bill's death. She (via her lawyer) has said she is not suicidal, that they are keeping her in a cell with no blanket or pillow and have taken all her legal paperwork from her. My guess is that all the defendants have been put on suicide watch, as well.

THE MAN RESPONSIBLE 22.Dec.2005 17:42

S and D

I don't know how a man manages to get a plastic bag into his cell, much less kill himself with it. Regardless, this is the man I believe to be most responsible for Bill's death. Stan "Jack" Meyerhoff.
Stan
Stan "Jack" Meyerhoff

Support Needed... 22.Dec.2005 17:59

me

I'm sure that this is obvious to everyone, but now more than ever, each of us must make a concerted effort to do absolutely everything we can to support the others (minus the god-awful snitch). Have you written letters to them yet? Please do so right now! Send pictures, artwork, long letters, short letters- just something so that they know they are not alone. We have to make supporting the others a priority. If you haven't already, please contribute to their commissaries. Lane, Coconino and Multnomah allow in-person donations (exact cash required). Otherwise, you can send donations for their commissaries to them in money order form (their names and ID numbers must be on the money order). Address the envelope as you would a letter to them. For Daniel at Sheridan, instructions can be found here:  http://www.bop.gov/inmate_programs/money.jsp.

And the other one 22.Dec.2005 18:00

S and D

This is Jacob Ferguson, the other "confidential" informant involved in this case. He has a large pentagram tattooed on his balding head.
Jacob Ferguson
Jacob Ferguson

Sounds like murder to me. 22.Dec.2005 18:04

David

once again it is our people that get killed. The system kills activist after activist. yet they demonize us. one way or another it was the snitch that is to blame.

-David

write support letters 22.Dec.2005 18:22

watching

I agree that at this point, we must support these people so they get fair trials.
I want to encourage people to take the time to write these accused now. You can send them an inspirational quote on a postcard. You can send them some interesting NON-political news you read about, such as things from the Arts or Science section of the New York Times and use quotes to show where the things you are writing them about came from. You can do tarot readings for them and write the symbology down for them to think upon (just quote published authors for this). You can send them colorful artwork. You can find their horoscope by Rob Brezsny at www.freewillastrology.com and write it on a card to give them something to think about. You can talk about things that do not endanger them or their case, things like weather, health, art, music, nature, etc...and still lighten their spirit as they will know they are not just thrown in a dungeon somewhere, left to rot...with no chance of a fair trial.

source on photos 22.Dec.2005 18:31

p

hey there,

if you feel like it, it would be great to source those photos,especially the one of ferguson, since he is out and about wearing a wire. it would be good for folks to know who to look out for.

Comments on "snitches" 22.Dec.2005 18:49

RGL

I'm really surprised at the meanness of the comments about the two men who are pictured and labeled snitches. Does anyone have any idea what they may have been through? They are human too. You may despise their actions; please be kind towards them as people. Demonizing ANYONE-no matter who they are-is really sad, and for me, the very essence of the energy we are trying to transform in the world.
It's the first day of the coming of the light...the day after Winter Solstice...a sacred time. We all have light and dark within us...please remember that we are all of one spirit.
Thanks...

sue the bastards! 22.Dec.2005 19:00

former prison-inmate

hopefully the family will sue the jail and get a large judgment.

i know that money will not bring their son back, but a large judgment will ensure that future inmates will not die under such terrible circumstances.

you have my sympathy, love and support.

Source 22.Dec.2005 19:03

S and D

The source on the photos is the FBI themselves- they showed these photos to numerous activists in recent weeks. These are grainy scans of the pictures the feds left at the homes of the people they harassed across the country.

For the person who wrote that Stan and Jake should be treated nice- I assume that these two aren't possibly going to send people you know and care about to prison for possibly the rest of their lives. I assume that you didn't know Bill Rodgers and see his life taken away by two people he may have at one time considered friends. I do not know what Jake and Stan have been through, I just know that I don't care. There is no excuse for what they have done and you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting otherwise.

Hey RGL 22.Dec.2005 19:14

tree hugging homo

In case you didn't notice a good man died the day after he found out two people turned states evidence against him. No one called these people "snitches" any where in these posts. They are, but no one said that here. Meanness? Jacob Ferguson really does have a pentagram tattoed on his balding head. People really do feel that Stan was responsible for Bill's death. What meanness are you talking about?

Response 22.Dec.2005 20:21

RGL

Hi S and D and tree hugging homo...'me' used the phrase god-awful snitch, and David used the word snitch...those are my references. You're right, I don't know anyone who has been jailed in these arrests. What the feds are doing is really frightening, and the times we are in are bad...
The meanness I was talking about is mostly the commentary blaming one of the two men mentioned as informants for the death in Arizona, and the snitch language.
I don't believe I advocate for their behavior to be excused, since I don't know what their behavior was. I advocate for them to be held with compassion as members of the same species we all are.
I am very aware these days that it's easy for our collective anger to turn towards each other, and I find myself wanting to speak up for compassion and kindness.
That's all...

Agree with RGL 22.Dec.2005 20:55

Expat

None of us know the circumstances that caused the "snitches" to turn state's evidence. If they were just trying to save their own skin...well, unless you've been confronted with spending the rest of your life in prison, how do any of us know we wouldn't do the same thing? Prison is a hell on earth, especially for young white activists with no support/bodyguard network.

I understand some of the rage I'm hearing, but I think it could be better directed at the power structure that is far more deserving of it.

no sympathy 22.Dec.2005 22:43

watching

I have ZERO sympathy for either of those two SNITCHES. May they meet their karma.

Time to defend each other 22.Dec.2005 22:59

cactus

Expat. The issue here isn't revenge - but the legitmate self defense of a community under increasing attack. These guys have already been exposed across the country today - from Virginia to Washington State. Word travels fast. It's likely they'll have to contend with being isolated, shunned, distrusted and shamed - and wrestle with guilty consciences for the rest of their miserable lives. But one of these informants is still free and attempting to collect more info and entrap more folks. So let's be careful out there. Me -- I'm saving my compassion for the friends and family of Bill Rodgers in Arizona - who kept the faith and betrayed no one despite the pressure - even though it cost his life.

More on Bill 22.Dec.2005 23:02

marat

Incidentally for yPortland IMCistas, Bill Rodgers was an active member of the Arizona Indymedia Collective. One of our own.

See the memorial feature on Arizona Indymedia.
 http://arizona.indymedia.org/

In the old time... 23.Dec.2005 00:07

gogol b.

Remember the old saying: "Snitches get stitches, scabs get stabbed." If you're not willing to face jail WITH your friends, or keep them from going to jail, or help them get out (since that is called SOLIDARITY), then DO NOT get involved with them in the first place. Otherwise, you suck, have ZERO character, and are worse than a fascist. Because at least with fascists, we know what to expect. But with our friends who turn on us, we didn't see that coming. NO ONE who stabs their friends in the back should be welcome in the community or treated with any respect.

Solidarity 23.Dec.2005 04:47

Pete

It seems as if Daniel and Chelsea have a fair amount of support coming out of radical communities as well as from their families. Support for Kevin seems to be growing too, but I have not heard of anyone doing support for Sarah Kendall Harvey. People need to write to all four of the remaining prisoners with support and ensure that none of them end up like Bill Rodgers or Stanislas "Jack" Meyerhoff.

Getting Back to the " suicide" 23.Dec.2005 05:06

.

Q: Why was a plastic bag in the cell anyway?
A: Because there were no stairs for him to fall from.

Check your Pretense 23.Dec.2005 07:58

curious

Does it not seem slightly suspect that the fed's would be leaving behind pic's of thier informants to taunt us?
From what i have read so far of this whole farce it just makes no sence at all that they would give us pictures of these people.
That is of course unless they where suspects as well, and the whole point was to scare them out of hideing. The fact is, it is not common practice to give up your sources during a wide open investigation. It is even more foolish to give pictures of those informants to people who have the ability to get it on the net to be seen by us. It would totaly ruine the whole operation.

So i pose this question how do we know they are informants and more so why are we leting them scare us like this???????
The facts are clearly fogged down by scared kids running up and down the streets shouting rummors and demanding the head of the (witch)informant.

More so why are we playing the blame game of who is a fault a man has been murderd in your name. Who cares wich one of your suposed friends turned out to be a worthless rat. We need justice for this. That does not mean the head of a rat on a pole but a huge funeral pire to show our respect for the dead.

Again... 23.Dec.2005 08:49

S and D

If you read what I posted you would see why it would make perfect sense for the feds to leave these pictures around- the people they left them with were family, friends, acquaintances or co-workers of others arrested, indicted, or subpoenaed. The FBI wanted those folks to give information on whether they had seen these people before, let them stay at their homes, etc. These were two pictures out of seven left with one person. Stan wasn't a co-operating witness at the time, but instead an indictee.

I would not have posted these pictures if I were not certain of the informant status of these two men. Beyond the mass media stories, court documentation, and Stan's own damning words in court there is other solid information coming from their former friends in the movement.

Snitch jacketing is a serious issue. I understand people's concerns especially since I am posting anonymously. I will however say that I stand by my decision to post these pictures and feel that all the available evidence backs me up. I discussed whether or not to do this with several other long time (Ten years of activism or more) activists beforehand and they also agreed the evidence against these two is overwhelming.

Finally, someone has made speculation on this site about the name of a third informant. There is no evidence against that person and I think that posting should be removed. If it turns out that person was an informant I will post their picture on Indymedia and elsewhere as I feel like it is an important part of keeping our community safe.

no case without stanislas 23.Dec.2005 10:02

ricki

Jacob Fergusion is/was a heroin and meth addict as well as a felon. He has no credibilty as a witness. they likely have no case without Stanislas flapping his jaw. Stanislas lawyer is either completely incom-petent or a spook himself. Hopefully Stanislas will be advised to keep his fat mouth shut from here on out. The informants will suffer in their own guilt for the rest of their lives and become the walking dead. I will mourn for Bill and his free spirit as well as for all who will suffer as a result of this witch hunt.

not suicide 23.Dec.2005 11:51

remember the bizbee deportations

seems to me that if i was a sheriff and was holding a key suspect in a serious of high-profile arson case, i would have monitored the prisoner 24/7, and if my fucking prisoner started putting a bag over his head to kill himself, i would've done something to stop it.

this is bullshit, either outright murder or an interrogation gone wrong. in the 1980's police in south africa used to say suspects jumped out of tenth floor windows to the death during interrogations. during the first red scare in the early 1920's, the same shit happened in chicago against union organizers. arizona has a history of this too.

don't be fooled for one fucking second. this was murder. the state is the enemy.

as far as snitches and collaborators go, unions during the early twentieth century had entertainment committees to handle that problem and keep morale up. learn from each other.

It took four days to report a suicide??? 23.Dec.2005 12:02

Skeptic

--------
From AP:

An Arizona bookstore owner charged with eco-sabotage in Washington was found dead in a Flagstaff jail cell early Monday, authorities said Thursday.

William C. Rodgers, 40, of Prescott, committed suicide, according to the Coconino County Sheriff's Office. The county medical examiner determined that Rodgers suffocated after placing a plastic bag over his head while he was being held in a one-person cell.

-------

The feds and police are lying. Bill Rodgers' family and friends must be going through a very difficult time, but the truth needs to get out.

One poster on Infoshop wrote:

"What the fuck? I just got his letter, today, and he told me that he was doing fine, didn't need any money, now, but might need some legal assistance in the future. This is weird...He didn't date the letter, but it left Flagstaff on Tuesday the twentieth."

The fuck is that we need to stop asking questions we already know the answers to.

back to infoshop 23.Dec.2005 13:26

with the skeptic

Where did you pull that ap artical, and when try giving a link. Becuse the real ap artical published on thur. mentions not monday.

However i do think it odd that earlier in the week i was seeing online rummors that one of the arrested had commited suiced, they where all debunked

Let's not try to get caught up in details "what" f'in day the news hit the net that is just nonsense. The real fact is a man with no sign of mental-illness "killed" himself. A long term commited member of our comunity who had a large support network. It does not add up that this man would have reason to end his own life. This man did have a future ahead of himself. Even if convicted he could have acomplished alot behind bars.

What i guess i am getting at is that someone who is being accused of so many acts of libeation does not exactly seem like the type of person who is going to "snuff" it before the "big show"(Court)!

Reason 23.Dec.2005 13:48

curious

S and D i have read your post that is what triggered the question. I did not see posted any rational reason for the fed's to be giveing pic's of thier sources to anyone especially those involved. Upon reading your reply i am even more baffeled by you pretense that the reason should be self evedint in your previous post's.

SandD wrote:
"The source on the photos is the FBI themselves- they showed these photos to numerous activists in recent weeks. These are grainy scans of the pictures the feds left at the homes of the people they harassed across the country. "

This explains nothing to me at all and have no info to back it up.

SandD wrote:
"I would not have posted these pictures if I were not certain of the informant status of these two men. Beyond the mass media stories, court documentation, and Stan's own damning words in court there is other solid information coming from their former friends in the movement. "

What damming words in court. Could you please ref. that to something a court doc. perhaps?


Look i am not in anyway trying to deffend a rat and thats that. I am just trying to figure out where we are getting our source on this data before time try's to make it fact!

To Cactus 23.Dec.2005 17:23

Expat

You wrote: "The issue here isn't revenge - but the legitmate self defense of a community under increasing attack."

I should have noted that aspect of the situation, and thank you for pointing it out.

So Many Inconsistencies... 23.Dec.2005 19:42

anonymous

there are many inconsistencies in bill's suicide, i can't help but feel something is wrong with this picture... of course i know no facts, but...
- bill had lots of support - a website 'supportbill.org', a seemingly strong and dedicated community in arizona, a loving partner...
- after a search on the internet, there are many articles that say he died monday.
- how does one get a plastic bag into his cell?
- although he was being frightened with allegations of connections with other arsons, the initial articles about him say he only faced 20 years in prison.
i guess all we can do is wait and see what knowledge comes to light... things are happening pretty fast around all these cases.
bill, you are a catalyst.

Suicide? It's more like Sooey-cide. 24.Dec.2005 01:34

twospiritwarrior

William C. Rodgers, 40, of Prescott, Ariz., committed suicide, according to the Coconino County sheriff's office. The county medical examiner determined that Rodgers suffocated after placing a plastic bag over his head while he was being held in a one-person cell.
***************************************************************
That's their lie and they're sticking to it.
People that are arrested and put in jail are thoroughly searched,
including cavity searches......given a county issue jumpsuit and
sandals. The only one-person cells are those used for solitary
confinement...the hole.
Regular jail cells hold 2-4 people, and even more with the record
numbers of incarcerations in jails and prisons in the U.S.

As well, all cells, including solitary, are monitored 24 hours a
day with cameras.

William C. Rodgers killed himself by placing a plastic bag over his
head?
Uh-huh...."I see" said the blind Lesbian.

Sure, of course, like those journalists who committed suicide by
shooting themselves in the head twice.

Suicide? probably so. 24.Dec.2005 08:43

LFD

Suicide? I bet it was. If you were going down for life+, would you do it? I bet some of you would, I know i might. Life in a cage? Hell no. Live free or die!!!!!

save your venom 24.Dec.2005 12:01

someone who knew stan

To people who share the opinions of "watching":

"I have ZERO sympathy for either of those two SNITCHES. May they meet their karma."

I have this to say -- Stan used to be my friend, I haven't seen him in a while, and I have no idea what they did to him, but the fact that he was too weak to hold his own in the face of the full weight of the state does NOT make him my enemy. Obviously he fucked up. Obviously he isn't going to get as much support as the rest -- but if you haven't been in prison facing life, and you haven't PERSONALLY been through whatever treatment he got (the details of which we don't even know), then I hereby personally request you to shut the FUCK up with your self-righteousness. If you haven't been thru it, then whatever it is you THINK you would do, the fact remains that you do not KNOW what you would do, and you are therefore talking out your ASS.

If you HAVE been through it, and you still feel the need to be vitriolic in your attack on somebody who failed to hold the line, then fine, fire away if you must.

sorry for all the caps 24.Dec.2005 12:50

someone who knew stan

didn't mean to start flaming.

anyone who thinks this was a suicide... 24.Dec.2005 15:02

questions

first, he was being monitored 24-7 in a single person holding cell. where are the tapes? they have cameras in all of those. if he started, why didn't guards stop him?

second, where'd the bag come from? you think they let you bring plastic bags into your cell? they search you thoroughly.

we're in a period darker than 1916-1920 as far as state repression goes. bush just got on tv and ADMITTED to spying, trying to whip people into a hysteria about terrorists. at home, peaceful environmental activists are the number 1 enemy of the logging and mining industries. money talks.

this was an execution, not suicide. don't go to sleep and let the government keep this up, twenty years from now, don't let yourself be able to say this gross expansion and use of repressive power was happening right in front of us and you did nothing to prevent it. don't be coward, stand up.

in memory of everyone who has fallen.

Stan can rot. 24.Dec.2005 18:22

Old, old friend

First off, I am currently facing jail time and have faced it several times in the past for animal and environmental related protest. While the most I ever faced was something like 12 years I have also faced death threats, had guns pointed in my face by FBI agents, had my home raided, had the FBI pay a woman to befriend me, and so on and so on. I have been offered everything from money to cars if I would turn states evidence against my friends. I never have and I never will.

I grew up with Stan Meyerhoff. I met him when I was probably about 14 years old. We used to play Dungeons and Dragons together in our friends attic room, go to punk shows in Eugene, and just hang out and try to weather the awkwardness of being a teenager. I loved Stan and I probably was the first person to send him a letter pledging my support when he got arrested. But you know what? He lost the right to recieve support when he started working with the government.

I don't care how close you were to Stan, the fact is that Chelsea, Daniel, Kevin, Sarah, Darren, Bill and all the people subpoenaed to the grand jury have friends and family who love them as well. Stan is now one of the greatest threats to their freedom and contributed to Bill's death. He does not deserve anything but our scorn right now.

I'm going to say this again: I loved Stan. With all my heart. But I also love freedom fighters, victims of FBI harassment, participants in courageous actions that save the earth, and yes, innocent people framed up by desperate informants. For all those reasons Stan can forget about the support of this community and should he ever find his way back outside of a jail cell I hope he doesn't have a moments peace. Our allegiances should remain with those who keep fighting in the face of repression and not with those who help our enemies to jail members of our community.

Dever Post wants a better picture of William C. Rodgers 24.Dec.2005 21:08

Matt katstomp3@yahoo.com

Hey Ya'll. I wrote to the authors of the DenverPost.com story about Rodgers. I asked them a few questions and Joey Bunch, of the authors, responded promptly. First of all, his death was reported within HOURS.

More importantly, I accused him of using a poor picture to perpetuate the image of William as suicidal and/or a brooder, and I suggested that it was sensationalism. His response was:"That's the only photo anyone has turned up. If you have another one
of
him, please send it this way. You'll notice the family sent us a much
better
photo of Chelsea Gerlach and we've used it.

If you're a friend of Mr. Rodgers and have pertinent information to
shed
light on his innocence, we would love to talk to you."

This was from Joey Bunch of the Denver post whose article and e-mail is at this link:
 http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3336636

Coconino County Jail reluctant to talk to me 24.Dec.2005 21:47

Matt katstomp3@yahoo.com

Hey Ya'll. I called the jail and asked them the dimensiions of their single person cells, and asked them if indeed each cell had it's own camera monitoring system. The fella hemmed and hawed and was quiet for a while. He also told me he didn't know then he asked me who I was and why I wanted to know. I was up front with him, and simply told him my name and that I'd learned from the media reports about william c rodgers but that these specific questions were unanswered and that I was calling out of curiosity. He told me "We aren't allowed to release that kind of information." "about the dimensions of the cells and the cameras?" I asked, "Yeah, you'd better call back during week hours." he said. So I will.

Here is their website:  http://www.azcorrections.gov/prisons/coconino.html
-M.

Coconino Jail 26.Dec.2005 09:29

Matt katstomp3@yahoo.com

Hello everyone. I called the jail today, and as I sat on hold for about five minutes I realized I don't have the money to do that to my phone bill. I just thought it would be nice, however, to get certain details straight from the source. I.E. Size of single person cells, and what kind of monitoring system they have. If anyone wants to try it, the link to their website (w/ phone #) is above.
Peace,
Matt

Where are the actual sources for Jake Ferguson? 28.Dec.2005 23:21

concerned

I lived in eugene for several years, and was also close aquintences with the accused jake ferguson. I've seen the few articles published on the web about his involvement... but how can we believe what they are saying about him to be true, while in the same breath, other friends are facing life sentences for crimes that are alledged? I may sound crazy for saying this, I would just like more hard core facts before I turn my back on a friend, and believe the pigs over him!

He admitted it.... 29.Dec.2005 18:42

Gumby Cascadia

Jake admitted to at least two individuals here in Eugene that, yes, he had been working with the FBI for some time.

who do you think you are? 02.Jan.2006 00:27

stranger

as i am a stranger to you, you are a stranger to me. i don't trust any of the words written on this page in reference to the snitches, nor do i have any reason to trust any of the authors of these vague, abstract, comments that have completely avoided citing their sources. furthermore, even after requests for sources, there was a failure to provide specifics beyond personal feelings or claims that their comments are certain. "feelings" or "certainties" are vague, subjective, and intangible, which make for undependable and unacceptable excuses as sources. personal thoughts and beliefs belong in personal journals on bedside tables. i came here to find details and accuracy and found little more than non-specific evidence, undocumented "documentation", and all the other generalizations i had to go through here. whether you claim to be a childhood friend, fellow activist, or family member; a corrupt fbi agent writing to sway or provoke; an ignorant trouble maker, or a journalist, you have completely failed to provide any actual hard facts, reliable sourcing, or any substantial information that is vital to the self-education of the truth deprived public. i am no more informed at the end of reading the comments here than i was before reading them. i have to compare the snitch related posts on this page to a daytime drama that is neither entertaining or sensible. the worst part is that there are many requests, confrontations, and pleas for sourcing that have egotistically been ignored and denied.

stranger to stranger 03.Jan.2006 14:08

Gumby Cascadia

Your points are well taken. The most 'solid' evidence we have is an assertion by Chelsea's lawyer that these people are snitches (an assertion that the Fed did not deny in court). But to those of us in Eugene, the far more believable evidence are the confessions of Jake himself, which you are only reading as second-hand info from unknown sources. Why should you trust the word of people you don't know? I don't blame you for being skeptical. But quite honestly, you are not who I'm worried about. I'm worried about people who know Jake and have had interactions with him in the past. The folks who know Jake may likely know me or others in Eugene who have had direct confessions from Jake himself, and trust the sources. For everyone else, it's just "news".

I, personally, have had conversations with three individuals who have confronted Jake. He has not denied being a snitch to anyone who has asked. You don't know me from Jack... but many others here know me and my work, and know that I would never engage in snitch-jacketing without solid proof. Especially not someone I have loved and trusted and worried about.

So do with that what you will... but please try to check your categorizing of this horror as 'daytime drama'. You cannot imagine the depth of betrayal and grief many of us who have known Jake and Stan are experiencing. Not to mention those of us who knew Avalon, and those of us who know the others facing life in prison.

Another Case of Determined Suicide 15.Jan.2006 03:23

anonymous

for thousands of years, the young go off to war and get killed, the wiser elders stay home and get assasinated, the truth never varies, and the battle never ends, until our air and water are gone...who won