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imperialism & war | political theory


where are we going in the coming years

I have been listening to all the arguments about staying the course, leaving now, or some combination of these concepts. I have come to realize that this president has led our military to the gates-----no, not the gates, into the pits of hell. We cannot get out and we cannot stay in Iraq.

The most potent argument about bringing the troops home is that this was an illegal, immoral and ill-conceived war; it must stop now. We have spent over two thousand American lives, hundreds of billions of dollars, our reputation damaged and our country ripped apart. The cost to the Iraqis is staggering; as many as 100,000 civilians may have been killed by our invasion and the continuing battles in the cities and towns throughout Iraq. Torture, lies, corruption is at every level of the new government. Our military is overextended, we should get out now or as soon as possible.

The most potent argument for staying the course or staying in Iraq is based on this concept--- we must win this war! A loss in Iraq would have terrible repercussions. There would be a civil war, our reputation as a defender of freedom would be so damaged we would be seen as a paper tiger. We must have a hold in the Middle East because of its strategic importance (OIL). We must honor our men and women who gave their lives by winning the war or completing the mission.

This is where this president has led our military, we cannot win and to continue is to postpone the inevitable; there will be a civil war in Iraq.
Most military experts in the coming weeks and months will say that we cannot sustain this level of commitment in Iraq much longer. Recruitments are down and the only alternative is to bring back the draft. There is not a politician who wants to tell the people of the United States we must now send your sons and daughters to Iraq, there would be riots in the streets. All of this begs the question, what is the solution to Iraq?

There is no simple or good solution to this mess, and the American people should be outraged by the action of this administration, they should be very, very worried for their sons and daughters. One thing we should all do is demand that this president say clearly if we intend to stay or leave Iraq. I suggest this because the answer to that question has very different directions for our country.

A decision to leave Iraq would have to be made with as many people as possible; this cannot be made in the White House alone. The Congress must be brought into the decision making process, past presidents should be invited, and people who we Americans trust. We should announce to the world, as a sign of good faith, we are no longer interested in any permanent bases in Iraq, all oil deals are now up to the Iraq people to decide. That would be a good start; we could involve the rest of the world if they believed that we were truly saying this slaughter must stop.

A decision to stay in Iraq would also include a clear plan to secure the safety of the people of Iraq. We would have to do what Senator McCain has called for, increasing the number of troops to make Iraq safe. I believe to do this we would have to call for a draft. We would have to convince the American people that we will be in Iraq for a long time, maybe as long as Germany or South Korea.

There are no good choices, this president has led us off the cliff, it is going to hurt when we hit the ground and that alone is enough to be very angry with a man who calls himself the President of the United States. My vote, let us get the heck out of Hell.

homepage: homepage: http://www.Squadron13.com/LoneVet/default.htm

Words of Wisdom 02.Dec.2005 21:59

Ben Douglass bendouglass@cheerful.com

Thanks. Yours is one of the most realistic and wise postings I've read about the Iraqi quagmire yet on this site.

I read you 02.Dec.2005 22:18

reader 2

Hell yes!

Civil War? 03.Dec.2005 18:37


Iraq existed for centuries without significant conflict for centuries. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived worked and married and went on with life. The violence promoting religious conflict seem to be outside instigators.
Remember the british troops who were caught with weapons and explosives by the Iraqi police?
You draw the conclusions.

You're right 03.Dec.2005 19:48


You've really summed up the predicament those greedy, bloodthirsty idiots in Washington have screwed us into, only you really didn't go quite far enough when you indicate that the worst result of either staying or leaving is civil war.The worst result for Iraq could very well be genocide.The only new aspect of Bush's big policy-clarifying speech last week was what sounded to me like an open declaration of war on the Arab Sunnite population of Iraq.It's been happening for over a year now, but last week was the first time the administration said it fairly straightforwardly.

Right now the US is in effect fighting a civil war against that Sunna part of the populace on behalf of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (an "Iraqi political party" formed by Iran's Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini in 1982).If the US got out the war would continue with the Iranian government taking an even more overt role.When that happens the curious among us will finally be able to see exactly how close the cooperation between al Qaeda and Iran is, but while those two groups (of cutthroats) may well patch things up between themselves, the best part of the Iraqi community - the ones who believe in a strong, unified, non-sectarian Iraq - will be killed suppressed or expelled.The only direction that unfortunate segment of the populace could receive help from would be Syria and its 1 million Iraqi refugees, but the US military is presently devoting most of its energies to keeping the Syrian border closed, and if the US withdrew it would be extremely difficult for an already dangerously isolated Syria to risk a confrontation with a further empowered Iran.

The results of either staying or leaving will be terrible for Europe, for the US, for the Middle East and especially for Iraq.The war is getting dirtier by the day, and it will do so regardless of which way Bush decides to jump.

In either case, mistakes made very early in the occupation of Iraq have already put Iran in a position where it will eventually be able to outmaneuver the US.The US presence in Iraq was doomed from the second L. Paul Bremer disbanded the Iraqi Army.Maybe it was always doomed, given the millions of Iraqis the US had already killed, directly and indirectly, through decades of proxy wars, proxy rebellions, wars, sanctions, and on and on...Then the faux-chocoolate icing on that heap of corpses was provided by the shit storm of lies about WMD and Iraq/al Qaeda connections that spewed out of the governments and major news outlets of the US, Britain, Spain, Italy, Australia and the other "Coalition" runts.

There may have been a way out that would have avoided disaster as late as the late summer of 2003.At that time one of the most astute historians of Iraq, Dilip Hiro, assessed the mistakes the "Coalition" occupiers had already made and suggested a way out of the trap involving an Arab League occupation army under the authority of a UN transitional government taking over from the CPA, but of course Mr Hiro was well aware that no American President would ever so much as arrogantly order the Arab League to piss on him if he were on fire, and even as ealy as September 2003 any help the US wanted in Iraq from the Arab League or the UN would have required a great deal of begging.

Oil is still the message... 05.Dec.2005 20:11

Pravda or Consequences

I trust our government of lobbyists and lapdog politicians will find a solution to the Iraqi question by finding a way to minimize the news of the carnage from all citizens of all nations, many who probably find foreign affairs rather foreign and prefer to just accept the fact that this is all part of God's plan.

So party on dude!

agree 07.Dec.2005 08:20



hell 08.Dec.2005 12:59

RE: open

The gates of Hell have been open already , have been for some time now . The question is whats coming through now and yes can they be closed . Any way Enjoy .