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What's up with Nov. 2 (worldcantwait.org)

I've seen so many conflicting dates for mass protests by different groups, that it all seem to be diluting any real movement. Not that I need to direction in my actions, just seems like it's confusing.
There's has been little comment or organizing on this event. I've heard tons about it through word of mouth, mostly people asking what's going on.

I've seen so many conflicting dates for mass protests by different groups, that it all seem to be diluting any real movement. Not that I need to direction in my actions, just seems like it's confusing. Why can't groups agree on ONE DAY? Just hard to shut everything down if everyday is starting on different days.

worldcantwait.org calling for mass student protests Nov. 2

There's another post about Nov. 17 protest and Dec. 1-3 for 50th anniversary of Rosa Parks civil rights movement.
The confusion is deliberate 31.Oct.2005 16:42


There have been e-mails about this event for almost a month now. The most recent one I got was addressed to UFPJ members and supporting groups, and implied it was a UFPJ issue. This is not something that UFPJ sponsors or endorses. Check the www.unitedforpeace.org site and you'll not find any reference to it.

I'd love to see a nationwide student strike, but this kind of hollow attempt just cheapens the concept and makes a real student strike that much less likely or possible. Serious organizing does not begin with an e-mail notice out of the
blue, with less than a week's notice, simply telling students that they _will_ strike, or when "their" rally will be held.

So what is this really? It is an attempt, very much in the style of International A.N.S.W.E.R., which hijacks significant commemorative dates and takes credit for events initiated by other groups (usually UFPJ), to raise their own membership. Membership in what? In this case, the Revolutionary Communist Party, a vanguardist, democratic centralist, and more than a little opportunist group, cousins of the people who brought us A.N.S.W.E.R.

Nothing wrong with trying to raise membership, or in being a Communist or even a self-styled revolutionary. Look at every liberal-to-far-left democratic group and you'll find many people with similar associations and aspirations. What
you rarely find is the kind of mendacity, opportunism, and empty rhetoric that characterizes this particular group.

See their web site  http://rwor.org/home-e.htm for slightly more info about who they are than you'll find on www.worldcantwait.org. Being coy and hiding their identity gets them endorsers that otherwise might not sign, but it doesn't further the causes they so casually misuse.

They trumpet the slogans and issues of the day, but offer no means of achieving solutions other than attending their pseudo-events and joining their misrepresented cause. It is the exact antithesis of Direct Action. Those who buy into their pitch and believe that substanceless protest is the same as revolution, will be used to fund and produce the next empty protest and hidden-purpose rally that brings in the next batch of members. It's a political pyramid scheme whose only purpose is to benefit its creators.

Gee, we really needed one of those right now.

If it weren't that they devalue the very causes that bring people to them, it wouldn't be worth exposing them or writing this. They are spoilers, political opportunists, and every bit as much an enemy of democracy and of the people as is George W. Bush and his administration. The only difference is that they aren't in power.


Nov. 2 31.Oct.2005 17:21


Mass Protest 12pm Pioneer Square Nov. 2 2005

My school is staging a walkout as are many others. I have heard from an organizer who goes to my school they are expecting 700 people to show. I have heard also of work walkouts and other such things. In any case, Nov 2. 12 noon in Pioneer square is a definite date. See yah there.

why don't you look at the website? 31.Oct.2005 19:14

not affiliated with any group

The website for the movement was in your title, did you know there is a very comprehensive Frequently Asked Questions there that tells you ALL about World Can't Wait? Instead of asking other readers to find the (easily found) info for you, why not approach the organization for whatever other protests you have questions about and ask them? Then you can give your report here on the newswire and it would be useful news. I'm sure some of the protests commemorate important dates in history, others have reasons for not working with World Can't Wait.

I agree that there should be a more unified movement, but how would that be accomplished? Top-down management? Not likely. Now THERE is a discussion I'd like to see. How to coordinate millions of people without it having a figurehead or hierarchy.

Consider this 31.Oct.2005 19:35


"Now THERE is a discussion I'd like to see. How to coordinate millions of people without it having a figurehead or hierarchy"
Critical Mass organizes hundreds of people without a figurehead or hierachy. Hierarchies are the creation of people's egos and self-interest. I don't think they are necessary for any movement.

Response To "Not Affliated" 31.Oct.2005 19:49


Well if it's a student strike, why haven't I seen students tabling or organizing at school? That's why I was asking. I first saw a flyer and checked out the website, but really didn't tell me much about who is organizing this. Seriously I don't believe everything I read, especially with all the LaRouche, and Inteligent design stuff at school.

Peace, see you in the streets.

In response to the A.N.S.W.E.R dissing in the first response. I think the democratic party is the most guilty of stealing peoples energy. Stop trying to blame people and take responsability for yourself. The real enemy is capitalism, and at this point I'm down with all opposing forces just not going to signup with them or give them money. Seriously I'd be happy if there was any viable third party. Instead we got complainers on here against communists and socialists. The Democratic party is the same as the Republician party, so personally I'd love to see a member of a third party in Congress/senate.

To clarify my original question, So is everybody going to be on the Streets Nov. 2

Unite for a Common Cause 31.Oct.2005 20:12

Democracy Catalyst ecotv@uncompromised.org

I'm less concerned about the communist party than I am the Bush Regime.

If my participation in a demonstration of my belief that this government DOES NOT REPRESENT ME happens to give a small amount of impetus to another party, I'm going to weigh the pros and cons. For me, the choice is clear.

We must do what we can to express our perception of lost democracy here in the U.S.

Let us all have our say in our own way because we are united in our efforts to lift this fascist regime off of the crushed flower of democracy which once grew in the garden of America.

To this end, EcoTV is hosting a roundtable discussion at 3pm at Laughing Horse books. We will discuss the next steps necessary to reclaim our democracy.

I will see you on the streets Nov. 2nd.


Organizing 31.Oct.2005 22:26

George Bender

A more significant issue than the ideology of organizers is their strength and competence. How many volunteers do they have and how good are they at organizing large numbers of people to show up for an event? It takes a lot of work. It's not persuasion so much as just getting the word out.

Personally I don't care whether there is a hierarchy or a leader, just so the job gets done. However, I also would like to hear more about bottom-up self-organization of groups. How does Critical Mass do it? Would their tactics work large-scale? I recently read the book "Emergence" by Steven Johnson, which explains how self-organization of natural systems like ant colonies produces "emergent" complex behavior based on a few simple rules. He says the same principal causes neighborhoods to emerge from cities.

Johnson also refers to the Slashdot "news for nerds" website --  http://slashdot.org/ -- as an example of a planned self-organizing complex system. A ratings system enables each reader to set a quality level for themselves so that the good stuff rises to the top and the junk sinks out of sight. Portland Indymedia might think about trying something like this. Set it up so that the readers are the raters, not the volunteers.

Could this work as an organizing tool? It might bring thoughtful proposals to the top and help us ignore all the posts attacking anyone who actually tries to do anything.

We need some mechanism for deciding as a group what we want to do as a group. Too much is just getting lost in the clutter. A lot of "activists" don't seem to get the idea that the point of all this is to actually DO something, not just shoot off our mouths.

Stop fucking talking out of your asses 31.Oct.2005 22:42


Shut the fuck up, all of you. You are all the fucking reason why we arent making a difference and changing something. Everyone looks at different types of resistance as horrible and alienates themeselves as far away as possible from it before actually knowing what it is. If you fucking ignorant assholes would of taken some time to actually look it up before you spewed shit out of your mouth we wouldnt have this problem. This event is well fucking covered. People are organizing it including myself, and spend half their day doing this. And I am the person who organized my WHOLE ENTIRE HIGHSCHOOL to go this event so you don't know shit about the student organization. We are doing great. People like you are the reason why Lincoln wont come. Lincoln says that, "we think a walkout is pointless and we do not want to be communists." That's ignorance. O.K. howbout you all do some research. I have been working my ass off flyering and even had to miss important things to spread the word about this. And I get called a fucking communist? Look, we are even having trouble representing the World can't wait because they are communists. In order to have support we have to go with the national movement. And that would be the same if any group called for a national day of action. Look locally assholes, I am one of the organizers and I hate Maoist and Stalin freak. I'm just like you. I'm not going to brainwash you into a Stalin regime. In fact, we've had some trouble with our group because a lot of them want to stick with the national plan of World Can't Wait. But we are saying, we are not communists and we do not believe the world will be handed to us if we protest silently in a permitted march. Everyone did sit-ins, took the street, and did a peaceful protest of some sort to get their way. We are not people like the PPRC who say that we should stick to the sidewalk and try get along with the republicans as best as possible. No, were pissed off that we have to live in a world like this and why we have to live in a world like this if a little under 75% of the American people hate the president. When you say that we are communists and making up shit and saying shit you don't even know to be true you're helping out the other side in weakening the resistance. In solidarity we can accomplish anything. That is why we chant "the people united will never be defeated". Well, we need to be united in our movement, and by trying to divide especially from statements you dont know to be true, is helping destroy any living movement. So howbout you all take my word for it, WE ARE NOT FUCKING COMMUNISTS, WE DON'T WANT YOUR FUCKING MONEY, WE WANT TO FUCKING DESTROY THIS REGIME. We are hardly having a fundraiser because we believe that our actions should not be for a fundraiser for ourselves. Fundraisers are pointless. It is like the S/24 thing, they set up an entire protest dedicated to fundraising. We are setting up an entire protest to make a difference. A lot of people are coming to this event, and if you didn't know that than maybe you shouldn't say anything. It is being advertised, students are organizing, you just stepped in late and are being ignorant. How bout all of you that are saying this shit ( mr.ShutDownEveryday , buffie) come to the protest and meet me and see that I'm not a fascist. See that I don't want you money. See that we are trying to make a resistance, and by putting it down your are killing the cause. We are as concerned as you are about this whole RCP deal, and a lot of people just don't know about the World Can't Wait chapter. A lot of them are just confused liberals that finally realized that something has to be done, much like A.N.S.W.E.R. and PPRC. But I will be speaking on this event so you can see that my comrades and I are not the dirty fascists you thought we were. (Ranting over). Sorry, this stuff just really pisses me off.

who is organizing and Critical Mass 31.Oct.2005 22:45


"I first saw a flyer and checked out the website, but really didn't tell me much about who is organizing this."

By "who is organizing" do you mean what organization? Why does everything have to be organized by some kind of establishment? If you go to worldcantwait.net and click "about", the page describes how the movement came into being and has short bio's for the people on the steering committee, who obviously have involvement with many different progressive groups. If you click "F.A.Q." there are a lot of other questions answered.

As to Critical Mass, I can see it as a useful model of a group that a few individuals do most of the work and what work they do get done is often negated by the group as a whole. Almost any new idea for the CM doesn't go anywhere, because people just discuss discuss discuss without actually doing anything (much appreciation to the few individuals who take initiative and have won some concessions from the city). The post-ride parties are often disorganized and only half-realized, because the same individuals are always doing the work and many of the people who commit to helping flake out. I don't see anything like the CM working on a national scale for organizing. Food Not Bombs is the same way, no hierarchy and no titles so it's extremely difficult to get something like a regional FNB meetup to materialize.

Not that I don't appreciate both CM and FNB, just stressing that these types of organizations are rarely effective except for maybe planning a single one-time party or having an event that repeats regularly without much change.

Reply to "bEn" 31.Oct.2005 23:59


Calm Down young one, I've been doing this longer than you and have no problem resisting. I remember last Nov.2 and how poorly that was planned. Seriously organizing your High School is great, but I'm just saying that I haven't seen much flyering anywhere about this, just on the net. I saw one flyer at PSU up until last Thursday and none at PCC. This is the reason I was asking if this protest was being organized for real, because seriously the information is not ON THE STREETS and AT ALL THE SCHOOLS. I'm sure the small circle of activists have heard about it but not the masses. And it's going to take alot more than lincoln high. Have you kicked the recruiters out of your schools yet?

Just so you know I put up flyers at PCC Sylvania and some at PSU for you all.

By the way, Ben 01.Nov.2005 00:17


I don't think I ever called the RCP or you, facists. You really need to watch your language because it just makes the things you say have less meaning. But my typing/spelling isn't the greatest so I really can talk.

I believe we are winning, just need to build a stronger community outside of 2-party politics and the media. I think slingslot have a interesting article about liquifying the power base last issue. The real questions is when it does fall what are you going to do? Do you know how to feed yourself, your family and me(cause I like food too), do you have a tight community that help each other, and can you defend yourself? Revolution and counter-revolution.

Great comment "George Bender" 01.Nov.2005 00:36


See way too much clutter going on in activist area. I think the real power is going to come from the base, meaning talking to your neighbors and getting people to start with themselves first. Your not going to change the world if you can't change yourself or the people around you.

By the way, I use to read slashdot everyday but haven't in 3 years. And majority of people probably don't know what it is.

Ack, this is so off topic. Peace, All Power to the People.

Portland Protest? 01.Nov.2005 22:08

LeRoy Gmazel, Vader, WA gmason@toledotel.com

Tomorrow morning my wife and I are meeting a young friend of ours who is taking the day off school to protest the outrages of our current administration. We will drive the hour or so it takes to get from our town to Portland. We expect to meet with thousands of other like minded people who will spend the afternoon, probably in the rain, being counted among those that cannot simply accept that the tranquility of our lives is being secured by the most strident gang of war criminals ever assembled in Washington. The hypocrisy has grown to such proportions that it's become unbearable to us. The one thing we have to be pleased about is this administration's transparency; the emperor and his cronies all are naked.
Damn it quit your slobbering about who or what group is or isn't organizing. Get your lazy asses out in the streets and demand an end to this insane empire building war machine. If you can't be outraged by this disgusting excuse for leadership you deserve the mess you live in - but your unborn children will have to pay dearly for your lack of resolve and determination. If you and your friends don't act soon the only good thing they'll have left, the ability to fight back, will also be gone and you can spend your next years getting used to the influence of an ever expanding marriage between political power, fundamental religion and imperial militarism; that's FASCISM in case you don't recognize it. See you tomorrow.
LeRoy Gmazel

A peaceful revolution is an oxymoron 08.Oct.2006 06:04


So I just heard the results of the incredibly lame Oct 5 "protest" in Portland. Apparently a permit was obtained, instructions were given and everyone agreed to "stay on the sidewalk" and have a peaceable demonstration with no threat to people or property. I understand that a few "young anarchists" left the main route and were promptly involved in a police "scuffle" with pepper spray used and were then hauled away, but other than that a good time was had by all. Although there was some disappointment in the non-coverage by the media and distress at the "misbehavior of the youth" the organizers of said event seem to feel that it had a positive result and will, in any case, swell the membership of WCM. What a waste of time! Revolution does not stay on the sidewalk or in the free speech zone! Revolution is not peaceable! Why would the media pay attention? This is about as newsworthy as the Ladies Aid Society's march for Muscular Dystrophy! Will we now see a colored ribbon on sale that we can display and indicate our fierce revolutionary spirit! The Paris Mob would be ashamed of you, the Bolshevicks would smirk and the IRA would give you a drunken raspberry. Remember the joke about the mule and the 2 x 4? "First you have to get his attention". No progress will be made until you take the training wheels off this baby. Make a stink! Cause a rucus! Be arrested! Shut the mother down! This has the unmistakable smell of "The People's Front of Judea" vs. "The Judean People's Front". While we haggle about passe issues like communism, the Romans are sticking it to us. Action, action, action!!!! Do something huge, loud and in their face! Boycott! Refuse to play! Otherwise, I'll see you in the line to vote pointlessly yet a third time, mumbling under your breath and wondering how Bush & Co. could have managed to steal an unheard of third term. People in power do not give it up willingly. It must be taken or destroyed.