portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article commentary united states

government | human & civil rights

Overturning Roe v Wade Grounds for Civil War.

You have the right to choose the course you will take and I advise you to choose wisely for there are a great deal more people that think like me then there are people that think like you.
Overturning Roe v Wade Grounds for Civil War.

Lloyd Hart

If the illegitimately elected president of United States stacks the Supreme Court with illegitimately appointed political hacks who then overturn Roe v. Wade doing away with a woman's freedom and right to choose, removing a woman's right to the sovereign control of her own body and therefore her own destiny, fundamentally reducing a woman's role in our society back to the status of chattel I will have no choice but to exercise my constitutional right to arm myself and declare a civil war in order to defend my wife, daughter and granddaughter from what is so obviously a tyrannical and lawless government.

Removing a woman's sovereign right to control her body and therefore her own destiny is absolutely on par with the practice of slavery in the United States that brought on the first American Civil War. Is absolutely on par with the removal of the Native American Rights of freedom of movement that led to the defeat of U.S. forces and the Battle of Little Bighorn.

No longer can I stand by and watch as this terrible assault on human-rights perpetrated by the lawless Bush regime continues. Now everyone will know what it will take for me to take up arms against this lawless gang of thugs in the White House. Sure there are plenty of crimes we can put them behind bars for right now but there is absolutely no political will in the ruling class in America to allow the information to flow to the public that would free the political forces in America to bring justice to these criminals. The ruling class have taken complete control of the ballot box and are rigging elections. The corporate media are lying to the public by omission and won't even address the facts that clearly point out the illegitimacy of the 2000, 2002 and 2004 elections. With the ruling elite spending the last 25 years radically increasing the cost of real estate and rents, radically increasing the cost of energy, home and transportation fuel for the sole purpose of squeezing us to maintain grotesque profits for their grotesque lifestyles what little economic democracy there was in America is gone.

When this political hack Harriet Miers is confirmed by the U.S. Senate and when she is sworn in as a associate justice to the Supreme Court, it is only a matter of time before Roe v Wade will be overturned. I will not be able to look my wife, daughter and granddaughter in the face without walking out the door and entering in open warfare with a criminal regime. It does however not require that you have women in your life in order to fight for women's rights it simply requires understanding the rule of law against the U.S. Constitution. "All "MEN" are created equal" and so too are WO"MEN" to men and vice versa. If you believe otherwise you are fostering a criminal mind and are my sworn enemy. And if you succeed in turning the very foundations of the institutions of the government of the United States against the women in my family I will have no choice but hunt you down, bring you to trial, jail you and if you will not surrender to the rule of law under the Constitution of the United States of America you will give me no choice but to kill you.

You have the right to choose the course you will take and I advise you to choose wisely for there are a great deal more people that think like me then there are people that think like you.


homepage: homepage: http://dadapop.com

yes 06.Oct.2005 11:33



There are plenty of reasons to revolt... 06.Oct.2005 11:37

Pravda or Consequences

The problem with gunfire is that innocent people are not "collateral damage".

I am with you until we think we are God.

If Roe is overturned... 06.Oct.2005 12:15


We may have to commit civil disobedience abortions in states that decide to ban it. Same thing goes for any ban on flag-burning. Stick to Gandhian civ-dis unless it proves futile. Violence must always be a last resort, and never glorified.

You don't get it 06.Oct.2005 12:46

Lloyd Hart dadapop@dadapop.com

Gandhi was assasinated along with his dream of economic democracy for India. India is a much worse place today then it was when it got indepedence. They might be able to vote but Indians are much poorer today.

Women's rights are not the same as flag burning. Women's rights are the basis of all human rights. Without Women having equal rights there can not be civility whatsoever. And you most certainly do not allow women's rights to slide without an absolute threat of Civil War as the conseqence of such tyrannical actions.

oh 06.Oct.2005 13:51


Most people already perceive civil disobedience to be futile.

If I walk into your house and make myself at home, will you:

* ignore me
* ask me to leave and then ignore me
* refuse to cooperate with me
* put your hands on me and throw me out
* call the cops

Somehow "nonviolence" is a doctrine that is only ever promoted for leftist political activism.

c'mon now 06.Oct.2005 14:41

bowl o bran

Civil disobedience alone may not do the trick, but the powers that be would have a much harder time handling the disobedient and violent than they would handling the violent alone. Accept what people are willing to do and recognize that it's grey, not black and white.

The point of civil disobedience is... 06.Oct.2005 14:57


To DEFY an unjust law. So if Roe is over turned, and if states begin to ban womens' abortion rights, then doctors and women should go ahead and continue the practice, risking arrest as a form of political protest. Kind of like a college professor who smokes marijuana in defiance of prohibition...

DEFIANCE is the key.

Jury Nullification 06.Oct.2005 15:41


Lets say it gets to that point, and women and doctors are arrested for having/performing abortions. Before they can be duly convicted of a crime, they have to be put on trial by a jury of their peers. That jury has the power to find them not guilty by refusing to convict them. That's called jury nullification. That means, the jury decides that the law is unconstitutional and therefore unenforceable. This is one of the main reasons why our founders insisted on a right to trial by jury. It is the last bullwark against a tyrannical government and its unconstitutional laws. The problem is that jurors are usually never told of this right and most people don't even know it.

well said. 06.Oct.2005 16:03

this thing here

>I am with you until we think we are God.<

i rather like this phrase.

Fully Informed Jury Association 06.Oct.2005 16:07


This groups has been around for quite a while. Might be worth checking out!


What If 06.Oct.2005 17:42

Lloyd Hart dadapop@dadapop.com

Andy, Seph and Relay

"Once you recind a federal protection of a right its game over and with electronic Jim Crow in place and a Supreme court dominated by fanatics the ruling will be untouchable and the bulk of the states will get knocked down one by one threw brown shirt legal tactics. The supreme court strike down all legal abortion nation wide by recognizing the unborn fetus's right to live. The supreme court will soon after recognize the rights of the biological father to have control of the womb by giving the father equal say and therefore veto power."

Jurys will be overruled by the supreme court.

"Your talking as though there is still a democratic process still left in this country. How long do you think its going to take before the fanatics on the supreme court order a uniform electronic voting system on the states arguing under the guise of voting rights."

"Remove your liberal classes for a moment and take a look around you. Your not in America any more Toto. Do you see any slowing of the agenda of Bush regime tyranny"

A civil war 07.Oct.2005 01:26


is just a bunch of peasants shooting each other instead of their enemies.

Jurors will solve this- my ass 07.Oct.2005 16:12

eva destruction

You forget that there are cadres of rabid anti-abortion nut jobs all over this country. Some of them could pop up on juries. I went to a Bush protest when he was popping around, trying to rally up his supporters at a stadium in the midwest. The only thing which those rightwing idiots seemed concerned about is, "Kerry will kill babies." Truly the only thing they give a damn about is protecting fetuses- not children after they are born or anyone else for that matter. Not if Bush invades the world for its oil. Not if women die from botched backstreet abortions. I'm sorry, but a line has to be drawn. The entire movement will suffer if half its population- the women- are at risk for being stuck at home with a baby.

Stivin 10.Oct.2005 02:28

Overtrun Roe and Democratically Legalize Abortion

If Roe v. Wade were overturned, most States (including Oregon) would legalize abortion with some restrictions (in a similar way to the restrictions that we have now). Roe v. Wade served as the boogeyman for the Christian Right movement and increased their ability to organize and fundraise. Also, whatever you think of abortion rights, Roe v. Wade is bad Constitutional law, and should be overturned along with many other rulings so that we can return to a Constitutional government. Overturn Roe and democratically legalize abortions.

Overtrun Roe and Democratically Legalize Abortion? 10.Oct.2005 10:45

Lloyd Hart dadapop@dadapop.com

First of all there is no democratic way to legalize abortion as long as there is an electronic Jim Crow voting system throughout most of the states electing right-wing fanatics protected by a Supreme Court dominated by right wing fanatics.

Secondly Roe V. Wade is not a bad ruling. It recognizes a woman's right to privacy in the matter of pregnancy as being protected under the Constitution of the United States. By ruling to recognize a woman's right to privacy in the matter of pregnancy the court entrenched a woman's status as being equal to men in all matters. Just as a man cannot be told where and how he can lay his seed a woman cannot be told where and how she can or cannot birth or terminate a pregnancy. Also, by recognizing a woman's right to privacy the court also recognized that a woman has sovereign control over her own body and that a fetus is legally part of a woman's body until birth.

If the people who stole the last several elections were truly interested in democracy they would recognize a woman's right to choose is a central part of a democratic constitution and therefore a human right that all Americans should be prepared to lay their lives down in order to protect.

The above argument should be considered a stealth argument put across by right-wing fanatics who don't want you to think that Roe v Wade is about a woman's equal rights rather they would like everyone to think that Roe v Wade is about access to abortion and a matter for democracy. In other words a majority rules issue as opposed to a constitutionally protected right.

If Roe V. Wade is such a bad ruling why is the right wing in America stealing elections in order to stack the court to overrule it. Because a frontal assault of attempting to get a fetus given equal constitutional rights on par with men and women is far to legally problematic and really legally quite impossible. In order to give the fetus equal rights on par with men and women the state would have to violate the privacy of a woman and all her constitutionally protected freedoms in order to take custody of a woman's body during pregnancy in order to insure the birth.

You might as well toss the entire U.S. Constitution in the garbage and create a medieval patriarchal Kingdom much like the one the Confederate South was attempting to entrench in the American Civil War.