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My Learning Experience at OHSU

On Wednesday, August 17th, I went up to OHSU to pick up some information they had offered me and ended up getting manhandled and arrested.
That morning, I had phoned OHSU president Peter Kohler's office (503-494-8252) to inquire about their animal research and to get their side of the issue. I spoke to someone who identified herself as Tiffany. She offered to mail me information but I elected to pick it up since I was going out anyway. She told me I should go to the front desk in Mackenzie Hall and the printed materials would be there for me.

When I arrived, the woman at the window did not know anything about any printed information. I returned to my car to get the number I had called earlier and when I returned to the building I started to notice things seemed strange. As I went up to the window where I had been before, the woman I had spoken to saw me and walked away. I was then approached by two men who told me I needed to leave the building. Confused, I asked why. They told me I looked suspicious. I asked what was suspicious about me and did not get an answer. I then headed outside of the building, leaving the same way I came.

I reached the sidewalk on Sam Jackson road, started walking to the right and noticed someone behind a bush, talking on a walkie talkie. I turned around, headed back down the sidewalk and the guy behind the bush joined up with the other individual who was following me. I was followed down the sidewalk and across the street. They were continuing to tell me to leave even though I was walking on the sidewalk away from them. Then a security officer came up from behind me, pushed me and said I was under arrest. I was then pushed up against a car, handcuffed with two sets of handcuffs and searched. At this point three officers were there. I was then put in a cop car and taken to their security office and kept there for two hours while they questioned me and wrote their report.

While I was being held (in handcuffs) in the security office, the officers copied my driver's license and LIBRARY CARD. They also took lots of pictures of me including my car, clothes, and boots. A Portland Police officer showed up and issued me a citation for criminal trespassing and then I was released and escorted to my vehicle. I have notice to appear in court on September 13 to enter my plea.

I came away from this experience shaken and wondering what is going on at OHSU if they treat someone like this who was only trying to get information about a controversial issue. Is there something they are trying to hide?

Mars You Are Not Alone 18.Aug.2005 21:24

You Are Not The First And Pobably Not The Last

This is very typical OHSU behavior. They are nothing more than hired OHSU thugs. Did you get any of the names of the security officers? Can you post a description? What time of day did this happen? You need to write to OHSU Public Safety and demand a copy of the "Incident Report" direct your letter to Gary Granger head of the department.If you can come to the march/rally against OHSU on Saturday - call In Defense of Animals for more details or check out info on indymedia. There will be people at the march who can guide and direct you and tell you what you need to do possibly even suggest an attorney. Post the court info on this site and we will be there that day to offer you our support. Just remember you did nothing wrong the fault is within OHSU.

OHSU "security" (gestapo) out of control 18.Aug.2005 21:29

a little bird

I happen to have a very good connection with the deputy director of security at ohsu. Let me tell you, they are Nazis, and their number one concern is animal rights activists. I don't know why, but it's been like that for as long as I can remember. They have lots of little pow wows about animal rights people, they keep files on anyone even suspected of being an animal rights activist, and they are trampling constitutional rights.

Obviously, for them to be so concerned, there is a lot of money in hurting animals, there is a "threat" in that there are a lot of people who are opposed to what they do, and they know that what they do is wrong. They do not want word to get out. Their biggest challenge is people like Matt Roselle, who blew the whistle on them. The primate center is rigged up like fort knox, and the places where they kill dogs and cats were among the first to get the most state of the art security ever devised. When they started getting ID locks and things up there, they were tighter than a prison. Even now, they keep tabs on anyone whom they believe to be an AR activist and lock everything down the moment they spot you anywhere near them.

The funny thing is, though, they ain't all that. Even with all that, they have holes you could drive a truck through. Can't wait until the day that someone does.

Unbelievable 18.Aug.2005 22:18


Those people are out of control.

A local resident (and it is my impression from the poster that they are not even an animal rights activist) calls and arranges to pick up some literature. Then when they get there they are told to leave and when they leave they are arrested for trespassing? The OHSU jackboots are trampling peoples constitutional rights and fabricating offenses. I wonder if they even set the person up just so they could arrest them.

OHSU's behavior is immoral and illegal. I hope some of those security people feel some shame. They are an affront to civil society.

about these so-called "security personnel" at OHSU 18.Aug.2005 22:48

friend of a friend

A friend of mine is an "administrator" at OHSU and she's told me that the security there
is made up of "losers" from other law-enforcement agencies in the area and "losers" from
academy that can't get picked up by a real law-enforcement agency. A lot of 'em are for
most part "washed-out" cops from elsewhere that come there looking for a free ride till
they've built their time till retirement. They aren't the brightest and certainly are
not "professional" by any stretch of the imagination, and as such, they're easily hooked
into being Bad-Asses for whomever management toady they're ass-kissing to keep their job

You're right that management goes apeshit over AR and view them as "terrorist" ((I'm not
kidding)) and with such simpletons as they have on their security forceds it easy to see
them violating human rights, constitutional rights, and common sense rights. What do we
expect from such "losers" and simpletons???? They can kiss my ass for all I care! I do
hope you'll sue their asses for all you can get...take 'em for a ride!

Silence Is Not Golden 19.Aug.2005 00:14


I know Gary Granger is the chief of security but who is the deputy director? Give me a name.
I am curious as to why, when people like yourself seem to have information that could help the animals, why don't you share it? In other postings on other threads people have claimed to be past or present employees of OHSU, they claim to have information of abuse and cruel treatment of the animals but they never come forward with anything specific or concrete. How does one live with themselves if they truly hold valuable information that could help to bring animal suffering to the public's attention but they choose not to reveal it? If a human was being tortured or a child abused would you remain mute? If you know something but elect to do nothing you are as guilty as the abuser. So I will ask you again, how do you live with yourself?

How can they cite you with trespass? 19.Aug.2005 00:17


How is that legal? Don't they have to tell you to leave, and you refuse? Can they arrest you without warning just because of your request?

Proactive civil disobedience 19.Aug.2005 07:14

Reverend X Reverend X

If what I've read hear is even close to the truth, then I have an idea that's not only going to seriously impact the cost efficiency of this operation, but it's also legal and fun. Reproduce the events of that afternoon, everyday. a couple times a day. Until it becomes a tradition. If one curious person can create a security situation and subsequent lock downof the facilities, imagine what a pattern of curious people would do to their lab time, nerves and security overtime pay. Just don't go alone. Have one person call in the morning with the inquiry and offer to pick up the info. one person in the afternoon. you'll need 10-14 volunteers a week fot that position, don't reuse volunteers. that could appear to be harrassment. Then you need 5-10 random visitorsto the area. all ready to converge on the converging security guards. It's an old gang trick. One on point and an emebedded "cavalry". When the guards move in for the arrest suddenly they are flanked by witnesses should stop them from going thru with their bs. If they dont get the hint, the witnesses become a group, become a mob, become a unit. The labs wont be able to operate. at first cuz of procedure, and once they realize what is happenning, because pattern indicates conspiracy. I would suggest never actually trying anything illegal or invasive. That would give them justification for increasing security measures. This would just be a constant reminder that it's so easy and the repetition would drive em nuts. Rotate your random witnesess and you have an infuriating non event. beats picketting.

Wow 19.Aug.2005 12:14


OHSU is obviously VERY scared and trying desperately to hide their dirty little secrets. I have to say, I do not have a hard time believing this person's story at all based on my own personal experiences. OHSU does NOT like animal rights activists, (or anyone who questions their research for that matter) because they are making money off of their unethical, junk science. Unfortunately, it looks like they are managing to do whatever they please even though it's not legal. Let's hope this whole thing is thrown out. This person should not have been treated this way. Even for those activists who have protested at the homes of researchers, they may not know that they're banned from OHSU property if they've never been informed! And you can't be arrested for trespassing unless you've been told to leave the property first!

To "disappointed" 19.Aug.2005 12:23

I agree with you

This message is directed to all OHSU employees (or ex-employees) who have posted on Indymedia regarding what they know about the animal abuse that goes on at OHSU's primate center - please speak out! The animals who are locked up at the primate center are unable to speak out for themselves, so PLEASE speak up for them! The research being done on those monkeys is not only torture for the monkeys (literally) but it's also hurting people! Matt Rossell did it, you can do it too!

The Final Straw 19.Aug.2005 12:37

Not Taking Any More From OHSU

Hope everyone who is reading this plans to attend the IDA rally and march tomorrow against OHSU. This is a prime example of why we all need to be there to support IDA and every other ARA struggle with OHSU. They will continue to bully us unless we are willing to stand up not only for our rights but for the rights of the animals. Meet at noon on Saturday August 20 at the elephant statue in the North Park Blocks march to the Benson Hotel where the American Society of Primatologists are holding a conference and then onward to OHSU where we can send them a clear and distinct message that we are not taking their shit anymore. Stand together.

get a lawyer 19.Aug.2005 14:49

sue their asses off

Your rights were clearly violated, you're not going to let them get away with it so that they feel it's OK to continue? I would hope you would feel it's your duty to set things straight, and I'll bet some activist groups would help you get a lawyer...

a couple other questions 19.Aug.2005 15:24


SO when they told you to leave the first time were you still on OHSU's property? By the time the security guard came up to you to make an arrest were you on OHSU's property? Also if it was just campus security that came up to attempt arrest why did you comply? Security guards can detain you if suspected of a crime if you are on their property BUT if you were on public property at the time and not in the process of doing anything wrong you should of told this security guard to go @#@# himself. I would contact an attorney and see about filing a lawsuit against OHSU's security for assualt as it sounds as they had no legal right to detain you. The Portland pig was just doing his job and responding to a police call made by OHSU. I am not an expert on private security laws in Oregon or even those that pertain to campus police but it does sound that OHSU had to call the PDX pigs so their detainment of yours would be legit. If you win the case in court that will put you in a decent position to go after the pigs at OHSU, but in the future unless it's a cop refuse to be detained by anyone if your on public property unless of course they pull guns. :)

Some helpfull information 19.Aug.2005 18:46


OHSU had commissioned public safety officers. They basically have the same police powers as Portland Police. If you commit an arrestable crime on OHSU property or off of OHSU property the public safety officer has the legal right to make an arrest. I don't know the facts in the posted case but if the officer ask you to leave and you don't do it you can be arrested. If you want to protest OHSU go and do it but make sure you follow the rules or you might find yourself in handcuffs. BTW I'm told the only reason OHSU public safety officers contact portland police is they don't transport people to jail.

Waiting for questions to be answered 19.Aug.2005 19:36


mars,do you intend to pursue any type of legal action? Can you provide any more details of the 'officers' who did this to you? I for one find it frustrating that you are not responding to any of the many questions that have been asked of you on this board. I hope your account of what happened is true and you are shooting from the hip instead of just fabricating a story in order to get people to respond to you.

what? 19.Aug.2005 20:43

did you even read the article?

Obviously you might find yourself in handcuffs even if you do follow the rules.

The mindless liberal faith in the integrity of institutions boggles the mind.

about going public 19.Aug.2005 22:42

another ex-ohsu worker

Several people remarked about little bird's post that he or she should "go public" with what they know. It seems that's what this person just did. The problem is, no one listens. Every day, people are out there telling the world what is happening at OHSU. Matt Roselle, who was mentioned above, even got video footage of it. We all KNOW that animals are murdered up there, that most of this cruelty is unnecessary and not helpful in the search for cures, and yes, that OHSU security personnel are corporate getappo. And yet, the public just humms along as if nothing is wrong up there. They're contracting with the defense department, working on awful things. In your back yard. But what is anyone doing about it?

No, let me re-phrase that. What are most people doing about it? Because some people are fighting back, and being arrested, and being called names, and being photographed and surveiled and spied upon and harassed. But most people are just ignoring it all as if it will just go away, or as if they just don't care. This is not a benevolent institution. It's a dangerous troll, lurking up there on the hill above the city, complete with spies and a little troll army.

The fact is, ohsu workers and others have been telling the public and telling the public that there is something very wrong up there. It's time now for the public to do something about it.

I would say the next thing that would move 20.Aug.2005 00:58

will it happen...?

a campaign into high/er gear would be more video footage.

To All (Former) OHSU Workers 20.Aug.2005 02:23


Of course, getting more video footage would be the best thing, as Matt's material is now three years old. But it's increasingly difficult to get into OHSU for that purpose.

If any worker or ex-worker would contact Matt, annonymously even, and relate details, he could use the quotes and information to boost his campaign. All information is critical. Writing a few comments on indymedia is interesting, but not the most helpful way to disseminate information. Workers don't have to "go public," but I encourage all of you to contact Matt and put your knowledge to the best possible use.

OHSU Thugs also beat up medical students 20.Aug.2005 14:02


OHSU Thugs have beat up OHSU medical students in the past....

Pill Hill needs a few good lawsuits to get them to slap their "other gorillas" around (and leave the monkeys alone).

Teach them legal behaviors 20.Aug.2005 20:12


I can think of several criminal and civil charges that the original poster should be able to file against OHSU:

1) Harrassment (telling a law-abiding citizen to remove themselves from public property--the sidewalk and street)
2) Two incidences of assault (shoving and handcuffing--again, against a law-abiding citizen on public property)
3) False arrest (same as above)
4) Kidnapping
5) Violation of privacy (searching through personal affects and photographing personal belongings)

The Portland Police is also guilty of false arrest. File both forms of charges, teach them legal behaviors.

to another ex ohsu employee 20.Aug.2005 20:21

waiting for proof

unless you are willing to speak to us about the things going on at ohsu, we can do nothing. words on indy are empty unless you can come forward and provide proof of what you say. i could come onto this site and claim that cynthia bethea sells her body for money but do i have proof? unfortunately no. you cannot blame the public or the activists for not responding if you are not willing to step up to the plate and get the information out there. what/who are you afraid of? there have been contact names and addresses for anyone to use who want to help the animals. if you have something to say contact us. don't close your eyes and walk away from animal abuse. get involved.

See a GREAT lawyer! And more... 20.Aug.2005 20:38


If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer. And I can recommend a GREAT lawyer: Alan Graf. Unlike most attorneys (who are only motivated my money), Alan believes in social justice and helping people who have been victimized. Check out Alan's website (he is located in Portland):  http://www.hippielawyer.com

Tony wrote (above) that "OHSU had commissioned public safety officers. They basically have the same police powers as Portland Police. If you commit an arrestable crime on OHSU property or off of OHSU property the public safety officer has the legal right to make an arrest." Sounds pretty high-powered and official. But as much as these people would love to hide behind as much authority as they can muster, they are not the police. Perhaps they compensate for that be being heavy-handed and inappropriate...

The fact is, OHSU "Public Safety" are really only security guards. They do attend an academy and they do carry tasers, and many of them like to think they are just like other campus police officers across the country - just like the real police with police powers of arrest, use of force, carrying firearms, etc. But this just is not true, their powers of arrest, etc. are no different than a security guard's or a private citizen's. The State of Oregon does not elevate their campus security people to police status anywhere in the state, they are all just "Public Safety." Being a lowly "security guard" doesn't fit into their power trip mentality too well, thus the "Public Safety" title. Impressive, huh? Years ago, OHSU's people did have a real commission and police powers, and were armed (with real guns, ooooh). But the State yanked the police (Governor's) commissions and the firearms because OHSU's "Public Safety" guards were too flakey and downright dangerous to be trusted with such things. Funny story about what lead up to their demotion (and true), maybe I'll post it sometime.

Don't be fooled, though. While not the real police they dream of being, "Public Safety" can be just as thuggish, just as evil - especially when they outnumber their intended target and it is at night, few or no other witnesses are around, etc. Do use caution around these people and plan ahead. This is no joke. Don't expect them to be honest, either. They will lie like a rug to cover one another, invent situations that never took place, etc.

AR at the OHSU campus itself? I have no idea where that is taking place these days, but a little bird told me they once used (and maybe still do?) the Basic Science Building Addition (called the Center for Research on Occupational and Environmental Toxicology building: CROET), had several entire floors in that building reserved for research purposes, with CCTV monitored at Public Safety Dispatch, alarms, security access systems, etc. Aminals brought in through the loading dock of the Basic Science Building next door, elevators used for transport. Crematorium on site for disposal, one could smell it burning at times. Awful stuff.

damn! 21.Aug.2005 09:53


They do seem to be pretty concerned about "terrorists".

Check out this video on their "public safety" page.


be aware 21.Aug.2005 11:59


If you click on the link to ohsu, they will capture both your ip address and the fact that you are coming form this page. If this is information you do not want OHSU to have please take appropriate steps.

Question for Ravencroft 21.Aug.2005 12:54


Ravencroft,Thanks for some very interesting and valuable information but I need to ask you to clarify a statement. Are you certain they have the power to arrest? I know of at least one incident where they wanted someone to leave the property even though they were doing nothing wrong. The person would not leave and they were threatened with having the PP called and being arrested. I was told of another incident where a female drove up to OHSU at night after a home protest at Pete Kohler's house. She was immediately spotted and followed. Even after she had left OHSU property two OHSU vehicles followed her all the way into Sellwood where she pulled into New Seasons and called for assistance. This was way over the top. Another person was permanently excluded from their property because of something that was done by another person they were with, it was nothing major just a stupid choice.. These are lowly qualified rent-a-cops but highly dangerous. Word to the wise, even though they do not carry guns on their person they ALL have concealed weapon permits. These make believe wannabe cops should be considered armed, whacked out and dangerous and they all need to be taken down a notch and put into their proper places. OHSU is looking at some very big law suits down the road if they continue to sanction the actions of these paid thugs.



Mars - FYI .... Just got off the phone with Kohler's office - (503) 494-8252 - did not get the name of the woman I spoke with but she said she had talked to you before. She informed me that you were "suspicious" because you had requested info regarding animal research. When I asked her why that would made you "suspicious" since - after all - it WAS their material you had requested and they DID agree you could pick it up - she could offer no explanation - just referred me to OHSU Public Safety. Sounds like a clear case of entrapment.
Maybe more people who are interested in the subject of animal research should request this informational packet .... don't forget to inform them you wish to pick it up in person. Remember to take plenty of witnesses and a video camera with you!

Let us not forget 22.Aug.2005 18:40

US Animal Protection USAnimalProtect@aol.com

SEARCH: CBSNews.com The Web

HomeU.S.WorldPoliticsSciTechHealthEntertainmentBusinessOpinionSportsFREE CBS News Video

September 7, 2000 20:04:16 The Early Show CBS Evening News 48 Hours 60 Minutes 60 Minutes II All Broadcas

• Section Front

E-mail This Story Printable Version

Animal Cruelty Caught On Tape

Portland, Oregon, September 7, 2000

KOIN TV Cam Johnson

A monkey remains solitary in a cage at OHSU reasearch facility. (Photo: KOIN)

"I'm coming forward to show you what OHSU doesn't want you to see. Primate research is ineffective and a waste of money."
Matt Rossell
former OHSU technician

(CBS) A former animal technician at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland, Ore. has revealed shocking video footage of animal abuse that would make even the Grinch wince.

Some experts say the appalling video proves what animal rights groups have been saying about primate research facilities such as OHSU all along: that the primates are being chronically traumatized, and that the animals' complex needs for social contact are not being met by staff.

Some of the monkeys seen on the tape mutilate themselves regularly, causing deep wounds that are difficult to heal. The Federal Animal Welfare Act recommends housing these highly social animals in groups, but many remain solitary in cages. The monkeys seen in large groups in the video are also sitting in their own filth.

Whistleblower Matt Rossell states, "I witnessed firsthand how the OHSU operates above the laws of the Animal Welfare Act. Unskilled, poorly trained animal technicians, not scientists, are forced by the management to perform the research at a breakneck pace... so mistakes are common."

Rossell shot the video and brought it to the attention of the animal rights group In Defense of Animals (IDA), a California-based animal advocacy organization. "I'm coming forward to show you what OHSU doesn't want you to see. Primate research is ineffective and wasting your tax dollars," Rossell explains.

A waste because as primate veterinarian Dr. Sheri Speede insists, any research derived from the use of a stressed out primate is useless. Speede also notes that the public cannot see what they're paying for.

"The OHSU facility is closed to the public. In carefully orchestrated guided tours, members of the public see what OHSU public relations officials want you to see... People cannot imagine what these monkeys endure," Speede reports.

Oregon's former United States Department of Agriculture Inspector, Dr. Isis Johnson-Brown, also came forward to report on how the USDA is in collusion with the primate research centers to hide animal abuse from the public.

Brown says, "More than once, I was instructed by a supervisor to make a personal list of violations of the law, cut that list in half, and then cut that list in half again before writing up my inspection reports. The USDA inspection system is comprised of a 'good ol' boy' network that blatantly defies federal laws which, even if they were enforced, are too ineffectual to protect the animals."

A bill has been introduced in both the U.S. Senate and the House called the "ICCVAM Authorization Act," which would establish a committee that reviews alternatives to animal tests and recommends changes in testing procedures to the appropriate federal regulatory agencies.

Dr. Arthur Hall, Director of Animal Care at the OHSU facility, maintains that the animals are not stressed out, but well cared for and notes, "there's no secrets here."

Hall explains, "You see this at the zoo animals pacing, walking in circles. They do different things than animals born in the wild."

These whistleblowers are not the only ones concerned about animals at the research laboratory. In late May, 26 animal technicians from the OHSU signed a complaint to the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC) against the laboratory.

By Zoy Avgerinos
Copyright 2000, CBS Worldwide Inc., All Rights Reserved.

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Do Not Allow OHSU To Get Away With This 23.Aug.2005 08:31


Mars, please give us details, time, date, location of your court date so we can all mark our calendars and be there to support you against these false allegations. Does anyone feel that a rally is called for beforehand? We could hold one either at OHSU or in front of the building where Mars will be appearing. Think we should make OHSU regret they ever set eyes on Mars and make sure this sort of harassment never happens to anyone else again. Are we together on this?

Take the Challenge 24.Aug.2005 14:38


I challenge anyone who works for or supports OHSU to defend these actions.

Everyone.. 26.Aug.2005 00:32


Anyone interested in participating in an organized walk in, requesting the same material, or similar material, that the creator of this topic asked for, please contact me. Please be awar that we may have to endure the same abuse by the "Security" (for-hire militia) at OHSU that the creator of this article did. If you are unwilling to be confronted, do the confronting, or be arrested please do not contact me.

NOTHING done will be illegal. If nobody wants to do this, I will do it alone. Please email me for information.

Mars 26.Aug.2005 00:44


Also, Mars, would you please contact me? It's quite important.

To refyused 26.Aug.2005 12:22


I would like to thank you for suggesting this action. I would love to join, but I am one of many people who have been "banned for life" from OHSU for political action. I don't know that my banning is legal, but I have chosen not to pursue it at the moment.

I would like to support this action in any way possible. Let's show OHSU that they can't be both a public and private institution at the same time. Someone is seriously confused about what living in a "free society" should mean. Let's remind them.

reply to --- 26.Aug.2005 22:38


Banned for life? How do they go about remembering everyone who is banned from the premises? I suppose if you're banned and you visit, and they recognized you, you'd be violating that order and could be arrested for criminal trespassing, which many people don't wish to do.

I for one don't even care anymore. Animal abuse in the name of science is much worse than any other form, and nobody is doing anything about it. We humans have no right to take life from ANY living creature so carelessly, especially from thsoe unable to defend themselves against it.

Any information you have on OHSU would be great, as I have never been there and don't know the area. I've seen maps and certain other things that would help me get around and find my way, but I don't have any experience with how they work, how their security deals with what they deem as a threat, and other such issues.

I was informaed by someone that OHSU public safety would be low enough to try and set us up. If they even so much as try to set us up, it makes it a 100% certainty that they fear us, even though we've stated that nothing done will be illegal and we do not want EXTREMISTS, or people who will cross the line and do something illegal. We're simply requesting information and walking in to get it. What happens from there.. isn't really up to us.

they are on this site too 27.Aug.2005 08:24


refyused,word to the wise,this site is monitored by ohsu as well as other government agencies.do not give too much information out.shock and awe is the best approach.they remember who you are because they take photos,video tapes and do background checks and then they compile files on activists.i suggest you hook up with people who have had dealings with them before so you know what to expect.this is not a game these ohsu dudes are goons and should not be taken lightly.

... 27.Aug.2005 15:47


nothing for them to worry about if they arent doing anything illegal it should seem. requesting information doesnt make ppl an activist and if ohsu will attack an innocent civilian just asking for info then they are monsters commiting atrocities and should be jailed for it. of course that wont happen because theyre backed by the police. the bastards.

no juctice for the just 27.Aug.2005 16:51


point is no one has to commit an illegal act in order to end up in ohsu's animal activist log book.mars was only requesting information when s/he was set upon by their goons,shoved,handcuffed,searched,detained and cited.who has a court date on 7-13 mars or ohsu.don't you get it?they hire bullies to protect ohsu.those who do not understand that simple fact will pay the price.and remember who carries the tasers.

Look before you leap 29.Aug.2005 13:02


Refyused, I hope you know what you are getting yourself and others into. I think it is admirable that you want to get involved and help the animals but you have not even been up on the hill to see OHSU.Please, do your homework before you play into their hands.

re: Jacob 30.Aug.2005 01:22


I know this site is watched by the goons, but I will say that I'm taking necessary precautions and getting essential info before I actually do anything. That's about all I'll say here now.

My learning experience at OHSU continued 30.Aug.2005 09:26


I have received and am still reading all of your wonderful, supportive, and concerned comments. Thank you so, so much. You have really have brought up some brilliant thoughts, questions and ideas. I am considering everything right now. It seems there are more questions than answers but I am not gone, just resting and listening for a moment. I will be back soon even for a brief update. Stay tuned friends.

OHSU will not win 01.Sep.2005 13:08


We support you.
We stand by you.
We admire you.
We will do whatever you want or need us to do.Just let us know.You are not alone.

Public Safety 01.Sep.2005 22:44


Yes, the OHSU Public Safety Officers are commissioned as are all the other state colleges. They have police powers as granted by the State, and they do attend a law enforcement academy. Here is how it all started:


Now you know. By the way, they have an opening if any of you are interested in applying.

The joke at OHSU 03.Sep.2005 15:31


Petz, if OHSU thugs have the same authority as bad city cops why did a Portland cop have to be the one who issued a citation? OHSU public safety cops are a joke. I know someone who was thrown off their property forever and they still continue to go on. Unless there is something going on that day that puts the punk wannabes on high alert they just drive around in their big bad gas guzzeling suvs and haven't a clue as to what is happening or who is on the property. They are very similar to the Keystone Cops.

Over The Top 12.Sep.2005 20:47


OHSU has gone too far this time.Their asses are in a sling.Stay tune.

Can Anyone Give Us An Update? 13.Sep.2005 22:55

Curous George

so what happened at mars' plea hearing?

My learning experience at OHSU continued 18.Sep.2005 11:23


Thanks for thinking of me and my day at the Community Court Justice Center. The charge was reduced to a violation. I entered my plea of not guilty because I'm not guilty of criminal trespassing II. So, now I have a set trial date in November.


are they afraid of their deep dark research secrets 19.Aug.2005 21:39


or are they afraid because of the countless threats that have been made against their staff and constant intimidation?

one wonders.

you'd have the same thing happen at an abortion clinic, if they had cause to believe that you were a pro-life freaker.

when we adopt threatening tactics we get threatening tactics in return. that's why peace is the only way. when animal rights activists start staking out researcher's houses, videotaping them, calling their neighbors, calling their work, making "most wanted" posters (all of which are identical tactics to pro-life freakers, by the way, and all of which are done by animal rights activists), well, people get nervous and do things like arrest animal rights activists for trespassing.

not that you were threatening, but you are part of what they see as that group. they are unable to make distinctions. you'd do the same thing: imagine if someone that looked and acted like dick cheney started showing up at the animal rights planning meetings. he'd be identified as a cop, asked to leave, and fast, and if he didn't then he'd be forced to leave.

i don't have an answer for you, just an explanation.

i have a similar story that happened to me. i went down to the oregonian office after the bush nomination speech, because the oregonian said that bush had to go to war in iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction. i asked to speak to the writer, pointed out their error (and i was sweet as pie about the whole thing). they wouldn't let me in, gave me several bad phone numbers to call, and then the security started getting shifty. i never lost my temper, was always calm and polite, but i realized that these people are afraid of me.

good luck.

tactical 20.Aug.2005 07:46


> when we adopt threatening tactics we get threatening
> tactics in return. that's why peace is the only way.

(1) Do you think pro-life activists are more successful at shutting down abortion clinics when they're scary or when they're nice?
(2) Do you think you're more effective at shutting down a vivisection lab if the administrators are afraid of you or if they're ignoring you?

The stages of reaction to a challenge come in a specific order:

denial --> anger --> bargaining --> depression --> acceptance

As an activist you want to get your target at least to "bargaining." That means you have to push THROUGH "anger," not back off and let them stay in denial forever.

Thank You 20.Aug.2005 08:41

Den Mark, Vancouver

Thank you for the concise explanation of anger. I get angry, & am often scolded by more-peaceful colleagues, as if anger has no place in a peace movement. Anger is not violence. Anger is a normal & highly appropriate emotion. Without it, i don't know how i would've stayed with the struggle for 45 years. I use anger as fuel & burn it. I'm certain that most primate researchers are not angry as they perform their pointless tortures, & assume they are rather dispassionate, yet their work is violent. I've seen faces of cops as they brutalize protesters & do not see anger as much as i see hate & fear. Anger has a bad rap. It's clearly not an ideal state to be in, but sometimes it's the only reasonable one.

re: Kurt 20.Aug.2005 09:29


or are they afraid because of the countless threats that have been made against their staff and constant intimidation?
one wonders.

You may wonder, but that is because you are not seeing what is happening in this country. Which countless threats are you referring to? Please highlight all the cases of violence you know of, all the OHSU employees killed or maimed or beaten. What's that? Don't know of any? Gee...

What you have are people exercising their constitutional rights and an oppressive corporate state apparatus violently oppressing them. And the good Germans sit and watch it happen and make excuses for the Nazi thugs. Many people have wondered why and how German people could have let it happen. Well, you only have to look at this country to see how, because it is happening again.

not that you were threatening, but you are part of what they see as that group.

Oh really, and how do you know this person who wrote this is part of some group? (not that this would be any excuse for targeted false arrest) You are making assumptions. As I understand it (from a second hand account), this person received an animal rights flyer and wanted to get the OHSU literature and ask some questions. Well, they learned a lesson about the growing totalitarian state which calls anybody who asks questions suspicious and then sets them up and targets them for a phony arrest.

And in case you have not heard, this sort of thing is happening to all sorts of people, not just animal rights activists. Does not matter how pleasant a facade of peacefulness you paste on, they will find an excuse. Stop blaming the victim.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemφller

to jason and to tactical 20.Aug.2005 10:37


read my comments more closely:

you are part of WHAT THEY SEE AS THIS GROUP. (not you are part of this group).

i said there have been countless THREATS. not actual beatings. visit any of the "extremist" (i hate that word) animal rights websites and you'll see plenty of threats and intimidation. read some of the postings on this website about groups staking out researcher's houses and you'll see what i mean. if you disagree that visiting someone's house unannouced, with bullhorns, and screaming that they are killing animals, and calling their neighbors, and putting them on most wanted posters, all of which are done regularly, if you disagree that these tactics are threatening, well, you've got your head so far up your ass that you'll never get it out. that's the point of these tactics. to threaten and intimidate. like the ku klux klan. like operation rescue.

finally, to tactical, the "stage" concept of anger and acceptance, originally brought about through the work of elisabeth kubler ross in her research on grieving, has been completely disproven as a "stage" process. people do not go through those stages in that order. those are instead "states," which people may or may not go through, and it may be or may not be in that order, and they may skip over or go in and out of these stages. it's different for everyone. even elisabeth kubler ross admitted this, based on the research. and, regardless, this is assuming that a system can and does approach challenges in the same way that individual human beings do, which is also completely not true. systems tend to "feel" less responsibility and tend to react more aggressively than individual human beings--this is why the corporate structure is bad, it locates the responsibility for actions outside of individual people.

i've found, for instance, that trying to push someone through anger by creating more anger is just going to up the ante. they'll block up and won't "push through" at all. when was the last time that you calmed down and thought rationally when people were staking out your house, calling your neighbors and friends, putting flyers on your car, putting you on a most wanted poster? you don't calm down, you do things like call security at the most minor of threats.

i'm not saying to not speak out. i'm not saying that what you are doing is bad. i'm just explaining why this person received such an extreme response to a seemingly minor action and trying to put their behavior in context. once we forget that "they" are "us", that we're all human beings with similar feelings and behaviors, that's when we get in trouble.

human experimentation as well 20.Aug.2005 11:33


I made the mistake of using an OHSU clinic for a check-up on time a few years ago. The nurse-practioner was an unprofessional smartass who didn't appear to know how to do simple tests but what really fried me was the form they make you sign. In small print it reads that you forgo all your patient rights and they can pretty much do anything they want to you, give you experimental drugs and treatments, have doctors and students poke and prod you without asking your permission, etc. When I wrote out my complaint I also wrote "revoked" over the permission sheet because I worried about what would happen if I ended up there by accident.
So for Western medical care in this town (which is occasionally necessary but which I avoid as much as possible) we've got these creeps and a whole lotta hospitals and clinics run by Catholics and not much else. Tell me again why the free market is so wonderful?

who will speak for you? 20.Aug.2005 11:33


locally, animal rights activists act within the law when they do a home demo. it is the law for a reason

human beings do bad things, therefore all human beings are suspects, therefore we need a totalitarian police state to control them

kurtkabang - the good little german, does his masters work

action criterion 20.Aug.2005 11:36


Perhaps, following up on what kurtkabang just said, one useful question to ask oneself when planning an action might be: "what is mainly motivating this action on my part RIGHT NOW: anger at researchers, or compassion for animals?"

take a breath dude! 20.Aug.2005 11:49


Jason, take a deep breath and go for a walk in Oaks Bottom or someplace. Anyone who says something like what kurt just said is not a "good German"! Reread it,

>systems tend to "feel" less responsibility and tend to react more aggressively than individual human beings--this is >why the corporate structure is bad, it locates the responsibility for actions outside of individual people.

You're just getting kranky and disagreeable now at anyone who shows even a hint of disagreement.

That last question is truly irritating - 20.Aug.2005 11:51


people who do demonstrations like this aren't doing them for fun or profit or revenge/anger. They do them because this is historically and currently what gets the job done. You can say you have all the compassion in the world for animals, but how are you going to bring that action out into the world, and make the researchers stop? I could not care less about the researchers as people - I just want them to stop torturing animals. You might ask yourself what you are doing that is so effective, while those animals suffer and die at OHSU. Not that these protestors have the only way, but it is a way that is motivated by concern for those animals - and it is a way that has worked in the past to get people to stop their horrendous activities.

I have also seen one of those so-called "wanted" posters up somewhere. All it says is something like "Martha Neuringer - animal abuse" and then a few facts about her maternal deprivation research on primates that can be found several places on the internet and printed material (and not just AR sites). You make it sound like it's some kind of "wanted dead or alive poster" - an overreaction to protestors, as usual.

no need for irritation 20.Aug.2005 12:17


It could be that the tactics being used by animal rights activists right now have been arrived at after a lot of reflection and are motivated by very pure intentions (ie, compassion for the animals). But why get "irritated" over someone proposing that as a criterion to use? Why the defensiveness? Why does the mere fact that someone proposes something amount to an attack in your mind? "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" said the queen in Hamlet.

Yeah yeah yeah 20.Aug.2005 13:13


Jason, take a deep breath and go for a walk in Oaks Bottom or someplace. Anyone who says something like what kurt just said is not a "good German"! Reread it,

Bush Rove and cronies are laughing while liberals spend their time policing peoples behavior in order to keep them peaceful because if we are all calm and peaceful the fascists are going to step down and say they are sorry. (what a delusion)

No, that is not what they are going to do. They are going to launch a nuclear assault on Iran (and impose martial law here) and the only thing that might stop them is the military might of the rest of the world as a deterrent. Certainly not the liberal opposition in this country which is lost in guilt ridden pathological passivism.

Meanwhile, OHSU has its own fascist police force which monitors activists with impunity (illegal under the Oregon Constitution). Photographs them, keeps files on them, and in this case, (and others) falsely arrests someone without any cause!

And kurt tells the person arrested that it is the fault of activists?!?!

So, yes, he is acting as a good german. Excusing the behavior of a violent repressive state while shifting the blame to activists is doing just that. Exactly that.

yeah yeah 20.Aug.2005 17:42


Nothing in the world of human behavior is nice and simple and mechanical, but there are general patterns. You may believe EKR's initial conclusions have been "completely disproven," but somehow I doubt OHSU is really going to go from denial to negotiating concessions or accepting a vivisection moratorium without getting pissed off and mean in between. Or if I learned I had two months to live, if I really just "accepted" it immediately, that would be a pretty good indication that I was already depressed.

OHSU is not going to give up the incredible amounts of 20.Aug.2005 18:31


grant money they get to experiment on animals without a fight. To think so would be very naive. And if you think they will just come to their senses and realize how brutal and unethical they are, then let's see you out there organizing and making your case to them consistently (and you will soon be villainized by OHSU no matter what passive actions you take, if those actions cause people to question vivisection and OHSU).

It's really easy to be an armchair quarterback. Maybe that's why people get irritated when they have to take shit from government and institutions while fighting animal abuse, and then the do-nothings sitting on the sidelines who ostensibly have some awareness of the issues are also out there with plenty of criticism too because an action isn't done exactly the way they would have like to have seen it. I can see why that would be irritating for activists who put themselves on the line to help animals. But if you're content to try to throw water on the passion of activists and let the animals rot, so be it.