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G-8 Demo BANNED?!?!

Scotland police are trying to prohibit the peaceful assembly thanks largely to troublemakers and their own overreaction.
Once again, rock-hurling anarchists and overreactive police have conspired to stop the peaceful protest of the G-8. The only way to halt this frightening trend may be to "become the police," that is, "arrest" the troublemakers ourselves!

How do we disown the destructive folks at our rallies while simultaneously holding the line against pro-capitalist reformism? Where are the greens and socialists when we need them?
Go to Hell! 06.Jul.2005 09:36

Bakunin

I hope this post is a joke.

Blamming the 'anarchists' for State repression is like blamming third world peoples who rebel for the massacres visited upon them.

So you want to become the police, how appropriate. You should go find the socilaists, they'd love to become the police.

We need more riots, not less.

Fight the Power!

Wha-? 06.Jul.2005 09:37

RU Fuckin Kidding?

So, what you are saying is that we should all peacefully assemble in our little cattle pens, and moo for the nice fascists? Fuck off!

MARCH HAPPENED ANYWAYS 06.Jul.2005 09:46

BAKUNIN

Liam Paterson and Will Springer
The Scotsman
July 6, 2005

An official anti-G8 march on Gleneagles has finally taken place after it was previously cancelled on the grounds of 'public safety' following outbreaks of violence in Stirling and Auchterarder.

Numerous complaints were made about the earlier decision with many feeling that the cancellation would be seen as provocative. However, following a round of negotiations between anti-G8 groups and police, the go-ahead was given, although only protesters already within a sealed-off area around Auchterarder were allowed to take part.

The 4,000 marchers, holding banners, chanting and accompanied by a piper, made their way to the Gleneagles perimeter fence where they began their protest. The march was led by lawyer Aamer Anwar, SSP leader Colin Fox and Respect MP George Galloway.

Mr Galloway commented: "When, exactly, did this become a police state? When did the police get the power to call off demonstrations here in this free country of ours?...If they [the police] wanted to do the human race a favour, they should march into Gleneagles and arrest the whole gang of them."

Peter Wilson, the chief constable of Fife Constabulary, described the decision to allow the march to proceed as "very difficult". He felt, however, that there had been a "reasonable guarantee" of a peaceful protest, although he made it clear that his sympathies with the protesters demands to march had to be weighed against the rights of the local citizens.

In Edinburgh, approximately 300 protesters who had been turned back from Auchterarder gathered on Princes Street and blocked traffic.

Earlier trouble in the G8 zone included:

About 200 people dressed in hooded tops with scarves obscuring their faces barricaded roads and hurled missiles at police in Stirling. Cars and shop windows were damaged. A spokesman for Central Scotland Police described the actions as "isolated incidents". There were two arrests.

Several police officers have required hospital treatment following the Stirling confrontations. Seven police have since been released. Their injuries are believed to be minor.


Police surround protestors near Stirling.
Picture: Stephen Mansfield

Near Stirling, about 30 demonstraters took part in a blockade on the M9, forcing shut the main north-south motorway. Police have warned motorists to avoid the area leading to Gleneagles Hotel, the summit venue. Heavy disruption is predicted around the A91 in Bannockburn, near Stirling, with traffic being diverted.

Around 50 so-called eco-warriors blockaded a bridge between the town of Crieff, where American delegates are understood to be staying at a top hotel, and Auchterarder. The group used tree trunks and branches to block either end of the bridge and held up a sign stating: "G8 Democracy has to wait". The town of Auchterarder has since been sealed off by Police.

In Edinburgh, at least 200 police encircled most of the main Exchange financial district, which includes the headquarters of the Clydesdale Bank, Standard Life Group and Scottish Widows, from about 6am. Uniformed officers with small riot shields close at hand had closed off all the entry points to the area although workers were allowed to go through on foot.


 http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=747432005&20050706152000

to answer your question.... 06.Jul.2005 10:04

now

"Where are the greens and socialists when we need them?" not present. clearly they are not willing to do what it takes for real change! so it is time that somebody acted; don't disown those who are willing to do what your greens and socialists are not.

to Sephiroth 06.Jul.2005 10:17

creeper

You must be new at this. Your posting could have been written by me several years ago. I too had hopes that reasonable people could simply stand and make a statement or two about the insanity they were observing and all would be made right. That just will not happen. I am sorry about it. The folks on the front lines of this protest are speaking out in the only way left (for now). Have you not noticed the 'cattle pens' the authorities set up for people who disagree with those in power? Does that whole concept not terrify you? It is our duty to speak out when we see injustice. It is our basic human right. If those with authority will not allow protest, we must protest without their blessings.

anarchy? 06.Jul.2005 10:40

rAT

The present definition of 'anarchy' seems to encompass crowds of black-clad (the anarchist's uniform?) angries hurling projectiles and insults at nervous cops. Nothing new here. I did it myself when I was young. Watching cops beat the living crap out of peaceful protesters made my blood boil. Being the Martian type that I am, I was soon reacting exactly like they wanted me to. Screaming and kicking. It makes for great film at 11, but in the long run I'd just become angrier and more depressed at the futility of violence. I loved the punk scene of the late 70's. The explosive rebirth of the art and music worlds was a true breath of fresh air in the rancid atmosphere of Reagan, Journey, and The Dukes of Hazzard. The new message was the message, not an actual punch in the face. The original bands like Television, Patti Smith, the Avengers, and X were great because they were incisive and witty with their revolutionary viewpoint. Look at the bands today who claim the punk throne. It's either power-pop dressed in punk fashions like Green Day (they're fun, but not dangerous) or bald tattooed cretins who just scream and grunt, trying to sound evil but mostly looking silly. A lot of today's 'anarchists' are simply pissed off people whose hatred of the system is a green light for violence. They know the cops are not going to start shooting them like in Argentina, so it's open season for trashing demonstrations. What does the average american moron see on TV this week? All I see on CNN etc. is five second clips of 'anarchists' being beaten back by Bravehearts behind plexiglass shields. It's a pathetic sight. Made to order for the bougeoisie glued to the tube at home. Here's what I don't get. In this so-called 'post 911 anti-terror' state where every Arab grandmother is searched for bombs at Heathrow, how do hundreds of 'anarchists' get to run up and down Britain brandishing gasmasks, hoods,communications gear,'legal' weaponry and literature advocating violence? It's impossible to even know who you're dealing with when everyone wears masks. If I was an operative for the UK out to sabotage these protests, I'd certainly be masked and poking one of my fellow cops in the nose with a big stick, scaring the crap out of the Amish and Quaker aunties singing 'Give Peace a Chance'. You always have to watch the most violent closely. A lot of times no one has ever seen him before. I've found that a lot of violence prone protesters are violence-prone in everyday life too. Protesting gives them a way to vent their psychosis in what appears to them to be an acceptable forum for violence. A lot of these people would have been gangbangers in a different cultural milieu. A lot of them probably are gang members. But the vast majority are representative of a lot of Americans these days. Violence on TV, Movies, Video Games,Web Porno,the War itself. Violence is the American Way today. It's no surprise that the current understanding of the term 'anarchy' pretty much mirrors the current situation. There's nothing creative about kicking someone in the balls, but I'm sure some readers will disagree. Especially the two guys(?) above.

Your justification of tactics 06.Jul.2005 11:01

Sephiroth

scares me. How about a group of people chaining themselves, nonviolently, to the New York Stock Exchange? Anything along the lines of Gandhi/King style nonviolence would be great. And no, I'm not trying to become the traditional police. I think that anybody who serves the interests of the capitalist bourgeoisie, even if unintended, deserves nonviolent resistance.

But there is a very fine dividing line between blocking streets/chaining to buildings, and actually hurling projectiles. Throwing rocks is "violence" whether you agree or not. Marching up to the NYSE and blockading the entrance, WITHOUT EVER THROWING A PUNCH OR A ROCK OR ANYTHING ELSE, is "nonviolence."

There seem to be five levels of protest involved:

1. Talk about it, write letters, but don't get out in the streets.
2. Go to the protests while obeying EVERY law in the books, including anti-trespass laws.
3. Defy corporate trespass laws while respecting human life and PERSONAL property (not so much business property).
4. Throw rocks and such at police, smash windows, and set fire to empty vehicles.
5. Pull out guns and shoot anybody who stands in the way of your ideology.

I am a staunch "3". Option One is disrespectful to the "freedom to assemble" while option 2 does not adequately challenge the unjust property rights of the bourgeoisie. Option 4 may inadvertently destroy the property of innocent bystanders while option "5" is outright violent and hurtful.

'Nuff said about why I support option 3 and not 1, 2, 4 or 5?

Your right! 06.Jul.2005 11:05

Messenger

There are over 200,000 demonstrators in Scotland, but the shots shown on our news are of a hundred or so that broke off from the large group and tried to break through the fence. At this point in the anti-war movement this kind of violence may feel good but it is actually hurting the cause of making our brain dead population aware that there is a cause.

When people demonstrate, they know that the neo-cons are not listening......it's the world who is listening. But look how separating from the group destroys the message.

I'm glad that SOMEONE understands! 06.Jul.2005 11:18

Sephiroth

The goal is not to "moo" to the fascists. Martin Luther King Jr. would agree with me on that. The goal is to show that radical protest movements are not interested in bloodshed (even though it may ultimately prove to be necessary, I believe in the last-resort method, and we're definitely NOT there yet). The goal is to simply take power into our own hands in the same way that the working-class in Argentina and Nigeria has shown. Argentinan factories and Nigerian oil wells have been seized Gandhi-style by the people. Now THAT is revolutionary.

When so-called "anarchists" get caught up in the "goals justify the means," how is that any different from Lenin and the Bolsheviks? While I may believe in the use of law to protect people against violence or exploitation, I sure as hell don't support the law when it comes to capitalist property rights. Private ownership law must be separated from human law, and that's what the socialists stand for. Expropriation cures exploitation, and collective, nonstate property cures the tyranny of government-sanctioned private corporate property.

Most socialists today, by the way, are staunchly anti-statist and opposed to centralized planning. We support the premise that "those who work in the mills should own them." Pay no attention to the neocommunists posing as democratic socialists. If you want a real socialist movement you should say no to both corporate and state bureaucrats, and adopt a paradigm of legalo-syndicalism.

trot trolls 06.Jul.2005 11:55

bored

First off, Sephiroth specifically mentions "rock-hurling" anarchists, not anarchists in general, although the motivations for her/his remark are as questionable as the evidence for her/his type-casting. Anyone that has spent any time amongst demos outside the u.s. is well aware that, when given the leash to do so, contemporary marxists are at least as destructive (and far more prone to inter-personal violence) as anarchists. The red pouting about anarchist "violence" is based purely on their inability to control it. Marxists throw rocks when told to do so, anarchists when they want to. It's not difficult to imagine how frustrating this would be to someone who belives in things like carefully organized response to the movement of historical forces, large-scale homogenous movement building, and the possibility of garnering favor for "resistance" by presenting a "worker friendly" image. Unfortunately, I don't care. The idea of cramming "the masses" into the great sausage grinder of 19th century ideology has given up it's ghost to the same grim reaper that claims all static thought, reality. Do understand your position though, and even share some of your dismay, just from a different direction. And I certainly would not advocate "arresting" people because they refuse to behave as I wish during demos. What's the big deal, anyway. Either the demo has a purpose, or it doesn't. Marching around with brightly coloured signs and begging for some biscuit of reform carries no more meaning that acting out some fantasy that it's Paris in 1968.

The entire (mass) culture of resistance is like a ghost. A spirit trapped in a never ending repition of the things that it did when a living being.

but... 06.Jul.2005 12:04

and then

what does one do when blockade and similar tactics do not work? often the media never even reports on them; especially regarding environmental destruction. if the man removes the blockade and devastate a region, what then? move on to the next site and hope that the tactic works better there? not that i necessarily advocate violence, however somehow the pressure needs to be ratcheted up. before the iraq war an enormous number of world peoples took to the streets. king george referred to these peoples as a "focus group." it did nothing to stop the killing of tens of thousands of iraqis.

Remember... 06.Jul.2005 12:21

Tony Blair's dog

Since thousands of protestors gather at these meetings
to display their dismay with the bandits masquerading
as "elected leaders", the tactic of using paid thugs
to start "riots" has become common.

Why?

1. The actual protestors and their messages will effectively
be silenced since the media will only report the "riots"
and the terrible "protestors(sic)" starting them.

2. "Riots" will give the police a blank check to strike
at ANY protestors.

This grimy tactic has been put to work in Europe and is
now tested in US too.

If you notice one or more protestor/s behaving strangely
you may want to alert more people to keep an eye out.

Violence in a protest is a sure sign of someone trying
to disrupt or destroy the protest.

Actually, the Greens *were* at the Protests... 06.Jul.2005 18:08

Scotty B.

The Scottish Green Party and the Scottish Socialist Party *have* had a huge role in the G8 protests, and in fact, 2 Green Party members of the Scottish Parliament were on hand for one of them. As a Green, I can't condone violence at protests, no matter what side it comes from. I don't condone violence as a means of resisting oppression - look how well that worked out in the Spanish Civil War. And frankly, I think any political philosophy that condones violence as a means to an end is complete bullshit.

For information about the activities of the Scottish Green Party at the G8 Protests, you can visit this site:  http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/

It currently has a lot of news posted about the SGP's activities there. Here's an excerpt regarding :

GREEN MSPs CAUGHT IN EDINBURGH STAND-OFF: APPEAL FOR CALM AT GLENEAGLES ON WEDNESDAY

"Green MSPs that were accidentally caught up in the Edinburgh stand-off today have appealed for calm ahead of the Gleneagles march on Wednesday. The two MSPs have just emerged from the disturbances and have urged police and protesters to prioritise peaceful protest at the G8 summit in Perthshire later this week.

Green MSP Mark Ballard arrived back in Waterloo Place, Edinburgh, at approximately 17.50hrs with his wife, Heather Stacey, Green MSP and co-convener Shiona Baird, and Scottish Green Party member Mark Sydenham after a day at Faslane where thousands of people had protested in a peaceful and constructive manner. They walked down Rose St, past plenty shoppers and tourists, then turned into Hanover St and suddenly found themselves surrounded on three sides by police.

Mr Ballard has taken part in dozens of large and peaceful demonstrations and has been trained as an impartial legal observer for such occasions. He said, "All four of us were pushed into the middle of the demonstration. Police officers were letting people, including innocent bystanders but also groups of young people drinking alcohol, into the areas where there were disturbances, but they were not letting anyone out. We thought that the safest route would be through Princes St Gardens - but once in there we found ourselves trapped between two lines of police.

"The police gave no clear instruction regarding what they wanted the protesters - and bystanders who had found themselves caught up in it - to do. We moved into Princes St where we were pushed up and down the street. The police seemed to lack a clear plan about how to diffuse the situation and there was no clear communication, for example by an officer with a loudhailer. Police were rushing into the crowd and antagonising them. It was the most surreal and bizarre policing I have ever seen. Police seemed to be inflaming the situation by letting innocent bystanders wander into the areas of trouble, then not let them exit.

"Today has sadly marked a departure from the good-natured and calm atmosphere of Saturday's march, and I urge police and protesters to work to restore that calm ahead of Wednesday. The G8 leaders can all to easily dismiss violent actions - they cannot turn a deaf ear to peaceful protest by those who are passionate about the issues at stake."

Shiona Baird MSP, Scottish Greens' co-convener, found herself pushed up against shop windows by riot police with shields. Once out of the cordoned off area of Princes St, she and Mark Ballard tried to stop tourists, families and shoppers from wandering into areas of trouble. She said, "I was astonished that we almost stumbled into this disturbance - and even more shocked to discover that police would not let us leave the volatile areas. Faslane today was a textbook peaceful protest and to come across this in Edinburgh was very disappointing.

"The most important thing now is for police and protesters to remember what it is that we are all here for - to show the power of the right to democratic protest, not to abuse that right or threaten the well-being of others. The more peaceful the protest, the more powerful the message, and that is what we all need to focus on now."

ow! ow! ow! 06.Jul.2005 22:32

torture is lame

How quickly we forget why anarchists stopped chaining themselves to inert objects and started throwing things and running.

nonviolence is perfect 07.Jul.2005 07:49

it is reality that is flawed

> they cannot turn a deaf ear to peaceful protest by
> those who are passionate about the issues at stake.

Of course they can. Examples are legion. This is woo-woo religious talk.

How're those historic, record-settingly huge anti-war demonstrations working out? Is the war over yet? Oh, wait, the bad guys DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT, DID THEY?

Peaceful protest can be ignored. Surprising, disruptive, uncontrollable protest is a problem they have to solve. And you have to keep it up long enough that they get tired of fighting you and want to make a deal. You have to drive them through the stages of grief. THEIR grief, not YOURS. Denial, anger, THEN bargaining. You don't get a seat at the peace talks if you weren't FIGHTING first. The more peaceful the protest, the better denial works, and the less reason they have to get to bargaining.

No, sorry, you don't want them to make rational concessions to an irritating opponent, you think you can actually convince them that imperialism is WRONG, so they'll just unilaterally GIVE UP THEIR PRIVILEGES. Good fucking luck.