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You will get chills reading this!!

Notice the similarities between the end of the 1920's and now.
This is exactly, how I would describe, our country today.
Notice the stock market "bubble" this can easily be compared with the current housing "bubble".
The only thing we can learn from, is the past! Why are we ignoring it!
It is a common misconception that the stock market crash of October 1929 was the cause of the Great Depression. The two events were closely related, but both were the results of deep problems in the modern economy that were building up through the "prosperity decade" of the 1920s.
As is typical of post-war periods, Americans in the Roaring Twenties turned inward, away from international issues and social concerns and toward greater individualism. The emphasis was on getting rich and enjoying new fads, new inventions, and new ideas. The traditional values of rural America were being challenged by the city-oriented Jazz Age, symbolized by what many considered the shocking behavior of young women who wore short skirts and makeup, smoked, and drank.
The self-centered attitudes of the 1920s seemed to fit nicely with the needs of the economy. Modern industry had the capacity to produce vast quantities of consumer goods, but this created a fundamental problem: Prosperity could continue only if demand was made to grow as rapidly as supply. Accordingly, people had to be persuaded to abandon such traditional values as saving, postponing pleasures and purchases, and buying only what they needed. "The key to economic prosperity," a General Motors executive declared in 1929, "is the organized creation of dissatisfaction." Advertising methods that had been developed to build support for World War I were used to persuade people to buy such relatively new products as automobiles and such completely new ones as radios and household appliances. The resulting mass consumption kept the economy going through most of the 1920s.
But there was an underlying economic problem. Income was distributed very unevenly, and the portion going to the wealthiest Americans grew larger as the decade proceeded. This was due largely to two factors: While businesses showed remarkable gains in productivity during the 1920s, workers got a relatively small share of the wealth this produced. At the same time, huge cuts were made in the top income-tax rates. Between 1923 and 1929, manufacturing output per person-hour increased by 32 percent, but workers' wages grew by only 8 percent. Corporate profits shot up by 65 percent in the same period, and the government let the wealthy keep more of those profits. The Revenue Act of 1926 cut the taxes of those making $1 million or more by more than two-thirds.
As a result of these trends, in 1929 the top 0.1 percent of American families had a total income equal to that of the bottom 42 percent. This meant that many people who were willing to listen to the advertisers and purchase new products did not have enough money to do so. To get around this difficulty, the 1920s produced another innovation—"credit," an attractive name for consumer debt. People were allowed to "buy now, pay later." But this only put off the day when consumers accumulated so much debt that they could not keep buying up all the products coming off assembly lines. That day came in 1929.
American farmers—who represented one-quarter of the economy—were already in an economic depression during the 1920s, which made it difficult for them to take part in the consumer buying spree. Farmers had expanded their output during World War I, when demand for farm goods was high and production in Europe was cut sharply. But after the war, farmers found themselves competing in an over-supplied international market. Prices fell, and farmers were often unable to sell their products for a profit.

The rising incomes of the wealthiest Americans fueled rapid growth in the stock market, especially between 1927 and 1929. Soon the prices of stocks were rising far beyond the worth of the shares of the companies they represented. People were willing to pay inflated prices because they believed the stock prices would continue to rise and they could soon sell their stocks at a profit.
The widespread belief that anyone could get rich led many less affluent Americans into the market as well. Investors bought millions of shares of stock "on margin," a risky practice similar to buying products on credit. They paid only a small part of the price and borrowed the rest, gambling that they could sell the stock at a high enough price to repay the loan and make a profit.
For a time this was true: In 1928 the price of stock in the Radio Corporation of America (RCA) multiplied by nearly five times. The Dow Jones industrial average—an index that tracks the stock prices of key industrial companies—doubled in value in less than two years. But the stock boom could not last. The great bull market of the late 1920s was a classic example of a speculative "bubble" scheme, so called because it expands until it bursts. In the fall of 1929 confidence that prices would keep rising faltered, then failed. Starting in late October the market plummeted as investors began selling stocks. On October 29, in the worst day of the panic, stocks lost $10 billion to $15 billion in value. By mid-November almost all of the gains of the previous two years had been wiped out, with losses estimated at $30 billion.
The stock market crash announced the beginning of the Great Depression, but the deep economic problems of the 1920s had already converged a few months earlier to start the downward spiral. The credit of a large portion of the nation's consumers had been exhausted, and they were spending much of their current income to pay for past, rather than new, purchases. Unsold inventories had begun to pile up in warehouses during the summer of 1929.
The crash affected the economy the way exposure to cold affects the human body, lowering the body's resistance to infectious agents that are already present. The crash reduced the ability of the economy to fight off the underlying sicknesses of unevenly distributed wealth, agricultural depression, and banking problems.
Bankers will decide 05.Jun.2005 18:57

Bubba

The international banksters who own the Fed will decide when to pull the plug as they did in 1929. The bastards create fiat money out of thin air (fractional reserve banking - where they can loan out 8 times their asset worth) and then charge interest on these magical loans - your taxes go to pay the usury (which was 380 billion dollars in 2002.) What a scam, now nearly 100 years old. Check out how much the Rothschild-Rockefeller-Morgan banks are "owed" worldwide.

money is bullshit 05.Jun.2005 20:26

regardless of what it's "backed" by

> The bastards create fiat money out of thin air (fractional reserve banking -
> where they can loan out 8 times their asset worth) and then charge interest
> on these magical loans

All money is fiat money. The "value" of gold is only based on its traditional use as fiat money. Its utilitarian value (in circuitry, etc.) would not justify its price. Money is, by definition, an arbitrary object that is declared to represent some fraction of all the purchaseable things available at a given time -- physical commodities and other people's work.

Much more disturbing than the disconnection between the amount of printed paper money and any other, equally arbitrary, value symbol is the lack of any mathematical or institutional relationship between the amount of money people are trying to spend at any given moment and the amount of stuff available to purchase. There's a reason the establishment spends billions of dollars every month on advertising and propaganda -- and on punishing people for being broke -- just to keep people doing the same thing tomorrow that they did yesterday.

regardless of what it's backed by? 06.Jun.2005 08:03

wooden nickel

"The "value" of gold is only based on its traditional use as fiat money."

Gold is money, always has been. You don't trade in gold for gold, that's it, it's money, the world knows it. You can say let's use rocks instead, or blades of grass, or bottlecaps, but then everyone would just go into their backyard. Instead, gold has been and is considered the end of the line, universal currency, accepted globally. That's why we had the california gold rush, spaniards pillaged SA, and on and on.

"Its utilitarian value (in circuitry, etc.) would not justify its price"

This is why it's a currency used as a reserve, again, everybody knows what gold is, this is why we had the relationship between gold and the dollar a long time ago("as good as gold"). Even if gold is a million dollars an ounce, well then, a speckle might be worth fifty cents.

Printing presses are easy to turn on, the feds like that, gold is much harder to "print".

Gold has an intrinsic value, you may not like it, I know the feds don't, but gold is not fiat money, it is money, untill someone figures out how to synthesize it.

your definition of money is correct, but not the relationship of gold to fiat money, unless you would rather go back to trading chickens for goats.

Fiat money, by defintion, is money (as paper currency) not convertible into coin or specie of equivalent value

What do you convert dollars into if it's not backed by something that can't just be printed from thin air? Thus, any currency not backed by money(gold), is fiat money. Gold IS money, wether you like it or not. Split hairs if you want, but nobody is going to start storing bottle caps because they "perceive" it to be money, unless you can convince them of such.

the propaganda that the US dollar should be the world's currency reserve is working, that makes the liberal bankers happy. imagine if it wasn't, the feds would be scrambling for....something that has a perceived value, maybe they'll fill fort knox with chickens instead of gold.

You can tell me gold is evil, certain mining companies have terrible conditions for workers, the ceo's of these companies are greedy, but bottom line, gold is perceived to have "intrinsic" value and is money. The last thing the bankers and wall street want you to do, is recognize that, because then they have to go find it, store it, and buy it(with their fiat currency).

If you have another suggestion for what we could use to trade goods and services with, I'm all ears. Since gold has been around for awhile and used as money for a long time, it's the best we've got without turning the system upside down.

The only people that don't consider gold to be money, are the ones that want you to consider the dollar as money and not fiat money. These are usually the paid "money" advisors.

You may not agree with this article below, but without providing an alternative, you just sound like your complaining about "the establishment". Do you want to go after the "establishment"? Go after the money=gold.

That's what GATA is doing and that's why the "establishment" hates them, calls them kooks, conspiracy theorists, etc...sound familiar?
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The Quest for Sound Money in New Hampshire

There are two principal monetary provisions in the American Constitution. Taken together they make clear the intent of that document's Framers.

Article I, section 8 states: "The Congress shall have Power?To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof?" The repeated misinterpretation of this clause has enabled it to be misused and abused. There exists a widely accepted but horribly erroneous notion that this clause empowers Congress to make the dollar whatever it decides the 'dollar' to be, but the Framers intended something entirely different. To them 'regulate' meant the occasional adjustment of the ratio between gold and silver so as to keep the exchange rate of these two monetary metals consistent with their prevailing supply and demand. It clearly did not mean any extension of power to Congress to create a fiat currency not backed by silver or gold, like the dollar as it presently exists.

Then Article I, section 10 states: "No State shall?make any Thing but gold or silver Coin a Tender in Payment of debts." The meaning of this provision is self-evident. Given the monetary abuses perpetrated by the states, both as a colonial government and under the confederation, the Framers intended that the states be subject to the requirement of fair and just compensation in the repayment of their own debts.

Though the above two provisions are different in the sense that one imposes conditions on the federal government and the other imposes conditions on the states, they do have one thing in common. Both of these provisions are being ignored. To put it another way, the monetary system used within the US today is wholly unconstitutional. In the words of Edwin Vieira, from his truly monumental undertaking, Pieces of Eight: The Monetary Powers and Disabilities of the United States Constitution,  http://www.piecesofeight.us/PofE.html "the monetary system of the United States is [today] the very antithesis of what the Founders contemplated and the Constitution embodies."

We can ignore this reality, or we can try to do something about it. I have chosen the latter alternative.

GoldMoney provides the means for individuals to protect themselves from the monetary perfidy of politicians, but more is needed. Consequently, I have been participating in a nascent effort to restore sound money in New Hampshire.

Last year State representative Henry McElroy introduced HB 1342, which has been dubbed the New Hampshire Sound Money Bill. This bill enables people to use gold and silver in their transactions with the state of New Hampshire. In other words, if this bill is eventually signed into law, people will be given a meaningful choice. For everyone who needs to transact with the state government, they can continue to do so in terms of fiat currency, i.e., Federal Reserve dollars. Or they can demand that the state of New Hampshire transact with them in gold and silver, as is required in Article I, Section 10.

Therefore, those who need to pay money to the state (in taxes for example) and people who receive payments from the state (such as employees, suppliers and contractors) can under this bill ask the state of New Hampshire to accept gold or silver from them or require the state to pay in gold or silver.

Thus, this bill will enable gold and silver to circulate once again as currency, at least in regard to transactions with the state. Of particular importance is the form of currency to be used.
Firstly, US minted coins are acceptable, but they will circulate on the basis of metal content, and not the dollar amount stamped into the coin. The rate of exchange used in a transaction depends upon the prevailing market rate of exchange between Federal Reserve dollars and gold/silver at the time of the transaction. The dollar face value on the gold or silver coin (for example, the $50 'value' stamped onto a Gold Eagle) is ignored. It is solely the weight of gold and silver within the coin that determines the coin's value in exchange for Federal Reserve dollars.

Secondly, a more modern form of currency can also be used. The bill allows digital gold currency - like that made available through GoldMoney - to be used as a means of payment. The bill requires basic fiduciary criteria for digital currency providers, thereby ensuring the state government and other users that the digital gold currency system is managed and run by scrupulous and honest operators. These criteria include the provisions already being used in GoldMoney, so once this bill passes into law, I intend to make GoldMoney the first digital currency provider sanctioned by the New Hampshire state government.

To sum up, the Framers of the Constitution purposefully included the two monetary provisions noted above. They wanted to "form a more perfect union" because the collapse of the continental - the currency of the confederation - had created chaos and deprivation. What's more, they were opposed to what they called "consolidation", that the federal government would usurp powers delegated to the states, eroding the protection of individual rights granted by the Constitution. Gold and silver protect us from "consolidation".

In the telling words of RJ Rushdoony as quoted by Vin Suprynowicz in his excellent article "Franklin Delano Mussolini": "The rise of the modern totalitarian state has its economic origin in the abandonment of gold coinage for paper money. As the creator of fiat money, of instant money by means of legalized counterfeiting of wealth, the state is always the wealthiest and most powerful force in society."  http://www.lewrockwell.com/suprynowicz/suprynowicz22.html

To learn more about New Hampshire's Sound Money Bill, go to www.goldmoneybill.org. The bill is scheduled for a vote by the New Hampshire legislature in January 2006.

I hope New Hampshire makes history by signing this important piece of legislation into law, and I encourage you to contact the legislators in your state to also adopt this Sound Money Bill. It was drafted by Edwin Vieira, who was careful to make sure that it is constitutional and conforms with existing US law. In other words, there is nothing to stop gold and silver from circulating as currency once again, and thereby restoring the original intent the Framers set out in the Constitution.

 http://www.kitco.com/ind/Turk/may162005.html

GOLD & GATA

 http://www.kitco.com/ind/Hommelberg/may162005.html

yep 06.Jun.2005 08:33

just what i said

When New World gold mining flooded Europe with gold after Columbus came back from Hispaniola, it screwed up the European economy. There is no fundamental relationship between the amount of gold lying around and the qualities and quantities of useful and available commodities. It's a scam. It's a very old scam. Kinda like monarchism or slavery.

value is not arbitrary 06.Jun.2005 16:05

Steve

> All money is fiat money. The "value" of gold is only based on its traditional use as fiat money.

Not true. The value of gold, like the value of every other commodity, ultimately comes down to the amount of work that it takes to produce a given amount of it.
Gold was used as money because, being hard to find and mine, a small amount of it, that u could carry around easily, was therefore valuable, and could be exchanged for large amounts of other stuff. (Also it doesn't wear out or decay etc.)