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Pro-LNG'ers defend themselves against a much better alternative for Liquid Natural Gas
This is in response to Erhard Gross's letter, (Calpine and Port elections April 21st) or to anyone else who shares this opinion. While a panel of experts is an important step to the process, calling for other people to come and give testimony, to shape your opinion, is the ultimate in laziness. Many folks, Anti-LNG and supporters alike, came to this project with an open mind, (me included) and after countless hours of reading, watching films and doing research, only then, we decided if LNG is for/not for, our area or our future. We have forced ourselves to become experts on every aspect of Calpine, LNG and the world's economic infrastructure, in a matter of months, in addition to working our regular jobs. To quote a famous Pro-LNG advocate, "we need your patience on this issue".
Even though it's hard work, the only way to truly make up your mind is to do the research yourself.
As for the alternative to Columbia River LNG, it is at our doorstep. Currently in Europe, fuel prices are much higher than the U.S.; our fuel rates are surely headed up as well. In Germany, France and Great Britain, they are starting a vigorous push for an alternative to fossil fuel called bio-diesel. It is made from three sources, the canola plant, soybeans and palm oil. Close to 70% of Europe's automobiles are diesel-powered and over 2% of their diesel is bio-diesel; this percentage is rising quickly and is set to hit 6% in 4 years. Most notably the canola plant grows best in mild marine climates and in Oregon, Canola can produce over 900 lbs of oil per acre. Bio-diesel is far cleaner than petroleum diesel. The Canola Plant uses the sun, Earth's most consistent energy source. It also uses carbon dioxide, a harmful greenhouse gas. And rain, (the more the better) to create a renewable energy source that will help us cure our addiction from depleting fossil fuels.
As the prices at the pump rise, our country will be forced to start making bio-diesel sooner than later, and Clatsop County can lead the way. Bio-diesel production creates far and away more jobs than any LNG terminal and local land can be used for farming once again, plus the profits stay in our area. We will have the opportunity to export energy, instead of import and local restaurant's will have be able to sell their used fryer oil for making bio-diesel, instead of throwing it away.
I challenge everyone to get educated on the alternatives for LNG and Oregon's future. It is ironic that people can criticize the Port and then turn around and not do the "due diligence" themselves on this LNG issue. The Port election will be one of the most important votes in Clatsop County history. It will be solely based, not on the county's past, but it's future.

Tryan Hartill
seeds? 26.Apr.2005 14:16


Does our local seed and feed have the seeds for mustard/rape/canola? I think I will start experimenting to get to know the plant. Planting time you know.

Ahh the seeds 26.Apr.2005 14:48

TH oc4sure@hotmail.com

I know you can get them on ebay, 20,000 for like 3 bucks!
The books that tell you have to grow them are very expensive though. Let me know if you find any cheap ones.

Biodiesel is the way 26.Apr.2005 19:22


House passes two Kucinich Amendments on Biofuel "We can grow our way out of this energy crisis"


Study will be looking into the use of mustard as biofuel.

Also, ammendment passed to give grants to cities for alternative fuel vehicles. You all should look into that for Portland.

Two of the many resources locally... 26.Apr.2005 19:53

Pravda or Consequences



Where did all the pro-lngers go? 26.Apr.2005 19:58

TH oc4sure@hotmail.com

Native spawn? Georgia?

Surely you guys can pick apart my letter to the editor.
I have faith in you!

Genetically Engineered Fuel? 26.Apr.2005 22:33


Now biodiesel is a great thing of course but before this industry gets too big i would love to see all the folks who are getting into it consider the impacts of genetically engineered Canola (Rapeseed) or GE Corn even if it is made into a lesser impact than gas product like biodiesel.

Oregon state wants to promote biodiesel production through large scale plantings of Canola seed which would probably be genetically engineered varieties. Upwards of more than 70% of the Canola grown in the US and Canada is now genetically engineered varieties.

Does the wonderful Biodiesel community have a position on using GE crops for production of biodiesel?

Coconut oil as a fuel 26.Apr.2005 23:29


COCONUT-PRODUCING countries in Asia are going to set up what is being proposed as Asian Bio-fuel Council with an aim to promote the use of coconut diesel as an additive or enhancer in, if not a complete replacement for, diesel fuels.


Lots more on the internet

Great, we'll starve then 27.Apr.2005 05:29


It happened Brazil when they tried to go with bio-diesel. The food farming goes to the wayside and the people go hungry. Idiots! Get a grip there are 20 million bbls of oil needed to sustain PRESENT levels of demand. Using biodiesel will be as much of a fiasco as running out of oil. Mass starvation to allow the wealthy to drive to the mall.

wvo 27.Apr.2005 08:07


My understanding, based on an interview with the ceo of SEQuential Biofuels on KBOO a few weeks back is that american biodiesel is made from oilseeds grown for that market because of tax policies. Sadly, he admitted that said tax policies prevent them from using waste veg oil as a feedstock. WVO is a more environmentally sound source of biodiesel than oilseeds.
Either source of biodiesel creates more and safer jobs than lng.
We could allocate more agricultural resources to producing biofuels if we (societally) had more plant based diets, so that less water and land went into making cow manure and meat, and more went into creating sustainable energy independence and carbon sequestration.
WE needn't starve for biodiesel, but it wouldn't hurt to breed less, either.

Ain't nobody going to starve, silly 27.Apr.2005 09:40

Green Andy

The only agricultural supply problem in this country is over-production. Even with such a super-abundance of food-growing capacity that we ship billions of tons of food overseas, we still pay farmers not to grow crops!

And I agree with Edge - as farmers turn to growing oil seed crops, there should be a push to grow them sustainably, ie, non-GE, preferably organically, low-till, etc.

Nobody is right 27.Apr.2005 12:07


Surely, biofuels can mitigate the strain of peak oil production but biofuel cannot entirely replace petrol without substantial reductions in consumption. Agriculture is the most vulnerable economic sector due to it's reliance on petrochemicals. If one compares the human population explosion since the industrial revolution and yield per acre due to mechanized farm production you will see they match perfectly. Running out of pertol will lead to starvation, it is inevitable. If biofuelers want to ride out the human extinction in their diesel Jettas that's their business but don't expect it to fix the world.

Some Questions 27.Apr.2005 18:24

TH oc4sure@hotmail.com

What ag products aren't GE?
For 1000's of years, humans have basiclly done this, by cross-breeding and such.

Shouldn't we learn how to grow these products?
As fertilizers and such, become less and less, we will eventually learn how to grow with none.

GE and breeding naturally are completely different 27.Apr.2005 22:56


TH wrote:
"What ag products aren't GE?
For 1000's of years, humans have basiclly done this, by cross-breeding and such."

You can't breed a fish with corn. People allergic to clams aren't going to get sick eating natural tomatoes because of their allergy. GE crop pollen can cross great distances and destroy natural crops, their built-in pesticides have killed non-target species, and other consequences are being discovered all the time. It sounds like you have a lot to learn about GE crops, try these:



SIGH. . . 27.Apr.2005 23:58


all right people,

first. RIDE A FUCKING BIKE!!!!! i use caps and profanity cause i dont expect youll hear it anyway and im emotional about it.

why bikes? we, and i do include my exclusively bike riding self in "we", need to use way, way WAY less energy. i dont care how inconvienent it is for you, get over it. way less energy.

Yes replacing petrol with oil seed crops will cause starvation, as it did in Brazil and as it would through global trade in the poor regions of Asia and other place which depend on soybeans for survival. that is, the poor cannot pay the price soy based combustion fuel would raise food prices too.

second. do you really expect cash croppers to use organic method? to refrain from using industrial agriculture? like, whoa, they use tractors, and then they ship it and like then i can burn it cause i dont want to move closer into the city or ride my bike to the health food store. i would like to say a big fuck you to SQbiofuels for continuing the practice of getting semi-wealthy liberals to siphon their money back into the system. yeah lets keep walmart a real possibility by burning our topsoil in our engines.

if you insist on using a long range, rapid heavy cargo transport device (a car or truck or VW bug/bus) to do simple non emergency things, then use waste oil. or get a bike. if youre too poor to get a trailer, sell your car or make one from a pallet and old bent forks.

finally, the lng debate shoud not turn into a pro industrial bioD platform. that is like the spanish endorsing african slavery as a "benign and just" alternative to the enslavement of the indigenous americans. come on, seriously, yalls in denial.

IN closing, i would just like to say: GET THE FUCK OVER IT!!! you dont get any more energy and no amount of whining or technology will change that. bioD has a place in our "energy-less" future, but one of extreme discresion and frugality, like titanium now (ie, costly to produce, but not necessarily "finite," and thus used sparingly.) Thus it will be used in ambulences and firetrucks, but personal autos and long distance transport trucking will fade into history, replaced by train and waterway. not to be mean . . .

dude, zoobombing will save the planet 28.Apr.2005 10:50

avid biker

zoobombing is soooo cooool. i don't no much about biofuel, but zoobombing is real fun and bikes are kewl.

Crusties and Hipsters, Unite!

Relax Reality 28.Apr.2005 12:10

TH oc4sure@hotmail.com

Bikes take oil and energy to make too, so do what I do, WALK.
The world is not as bad as you make it out to be.
If we need energy for emergencies, wounldn't you rather make it locally out of used oil/local crops?
Instead of some BS large company that scams every last dime out of you?
And what does LNG/bio-diesel have to do with spanish slavery?
Everyone around these parts is asking "what alternatives are there for LNG, nobody seems to come up with any"
Well here is an example of an alternative, it's probably a shitty idea, but at least it's an idea.
Do you have a better one?
Love to hear it.

'Atta boy, Hartill 07.May.2005 21:53

Native Spawn

When your using your ass/brain instead of sitting on it Hartill, I see no reason to kick it.

Clatsop County, as I'm sure you're quite aware of, already knows very well how to grow hemp's cousin, so if we all would work together to change the laws that William Randolph Hearst put (and local timberlords would fight to keep) into place when his pulp mills and timber industry were threatened, then we already have a viable energy source.

Hemp oil converts fairly simply into a biodiesel fuel once mixed with caustic lye dissolved in methanol, a technique which makes the oil less viscous and more combustible. Fuel and glycerine are generated from the process, the glycerine can be used to make soap or candles. Potassium hydroxide used as the caustic agent results in fertilizer.