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Queer evolution theory, deep ecology, biological exuberance, population safety valve

Queer community as safety valve for overpopulation crisis, compare with animal populations that have survival mechanism to save species from mass starvation die-off..
The theoretical debate about the origin or cause of homosexuality is between genetics and personal free will. Certain individuals on the Judeo-Christian/Islamic extreme right wing (didn't think i'ld just pick on one dogmatic religion, did'ya?) believe it is a personal choice possibly influenced by some abstract "devil" being that tempts people 2 stray from the "proper" path of breeding, er, heterosexuality. Increasing the population usually results in increase of membership to their respective religion. Remember, these are the same folks who wish to outlaw birth control and abortion worldwide..

Genetics as cause of homosexuality is the standard scientific theory, some people are randomly chosen by their DNA to be attracted towards the same sex. There is no moral/ethical blame possible in this view since people cannot be blamed for their DNA (though someone will try 2 find a way)..

The genetics theory needs to be inclusive of ecology. This takes the focus off the individual (sorry, no blame game here) and widens the lens 2 a species scope. Science is preoccupied with looking at human genetics/DNA as if we exist in a vacuum. Our human evolution is not seperate from any other animal, plant or fungi on Earth today, we're all interconnected..

An interesting read 4 the queer community would be Bruce Baghamil's book "Biological Exuberance" that details animals and their traits of homosexuality. A good example is deer show greater amounts of non-breeding homosexual males as the herd population number increases. This takes some stress off the breeding males otherwise they deer would overpopulate and then experience a painful mass die-off from starvation. In this case homosexuality is a species safety valve for overpopulation..

"Curing" homosexuality via conversion is not only detrimental to humanity and global ecosystems, it is also impossible. Mormons and other Christian extremists have brainwash camps set up in attempts 2 convert homo 2 hetero, though the outcome is usually serious psychological disfunction. Going against an evolutionary survival mechanism is not a rational choice. If Christians really want 2 help humanity, they should protest nuclear weapons, militarism and over-consumption. In the case of homo 2 hetero conversion brainwashing, these Christians are acting in a very anti-human manner..

Greece and Rome had increased homosexuality during the peaks of their empires. Unfortunately, they were also overpopulated in their region of the Mediterranian. Constant warfare and land invasions were needed to maintain their lifestyle. Overpopulation isn't a positive trait for any species, especially overconsuming humans caught in the grips of imperialism..

Overconsumption in USA (Rome, Greece, etc.) and other imperialist nation-states is an additional destructive factor 2 overpopulation. The more resources people consume, the less there will be for the future of the species (starvation, die-off, etc.). Is it possible that since the US consumes more resources than anyone else we also have the highest rate of homosexuality?

Indigenous people of Turtle Island (America) usually treated homosexuals with respect and honor (this changed after forced conversion 2 Christianity). Queer people were often held as spiritual guides similar to shamans, considered unique and valuable individuals. Maybe the tribes knew something our modern monotheistic society has long forgotten, that there are natural non-violent ways to slow overpopulation..

Soon people may find their choices very limited, it would be advisable to support the queer community and start showing them some respect. Having spiritual guides burdened with mental problems resulting from abuse isn't in humanity's best interest either..

If our society cannot accept the queer community there WILL BE (yeah, no kidding) a global war of genocide like nothing ever seen before as resources, water and food are no longer available..

The tyrants who claim to rule over the people (Bush/Cheney/etc) are already prepared for survival after the die-off and their misshappen maladjusted sperm will be the ones reproducing humanity. Their homophobic agenda shows their plans very clearly. By beating down the queer spirit, the tyrants push themselves to the top of the ladder. Don't allow this 2 happen, it contradicts evolution. These tyrants are in fact the weakest link, they would serve the Earth far better as compost..

This doesn't address why some individuals are hetero and some are homo (nor should it, think random selection). There is also the grey area of universal bisexuality continuim that certain individuals in both the hetero and homo community refuse to acknowledge (those fuckers). Described as "fence-sitters" bisexuals are outcast by self proclaimed leaders of either community, yet here may lie the answer of potential 4 either lifestyle, sort of like a blank slate. Does a weather vane predetermine which way the wind blows or does the wind just blow??

Here is some info from Rainbow of Equality;

"It is harmless and helpful to the species°°

Homosexuality is very helpful to the species usually with there superior ability to help mothers that produce more babies than she can handle or they are able to focus more on protecting the herd or tribe, providing food, etc.

Over population can be deadly with a species. They run out of food and supplies and alot of other problems occur. Also it is natural for a species to adapt to its environment by evolving it in a certain way. When the elaphants migrated north a long time ago they evolved and adapted a thick coat of fur to keep them warm. So this could very much be natures way of adapting.

Even in our societies we just need to look at overpopulated places like China. There hotels are literally compartments, diseases are easily spread and there economy is suffering because they don't have enough jobs for everyone all do to overpopulation.

Reproduction only needs a certain amount for a species to survive but one thing that is a must for every human being is Love. "

above info from;


see also Unitarian Universalists (the queer friendly true Christians);

this has been obvious to me for years 21.Mar.2005 23:22


not necesarily as Truth of the Cause of homosexuality, but certainly as the benefit to the species and the planet today. -- Maybe it explains why societies are more willing to accept homosexuality nowadays.

I've never understood why nothing is said of it socially and politically. -- Except that rationally discussing the advantages of homosexuality would have no affect on homophobia and discrimination, anyway, because it is driven by irrational fear and bigotry and by political exploitation.

quibble 22.Mar.2005 00:22


outlawing birth-control is not a membership-drive

it is a guilt machine

the church places unenforceable restrictions on popular pleasures
very like the abusive fault-finding spouse
then reaps the penance payments

these payments include actual cash
increased obedience to more visible rules
increased hatred and vengeance against selected criminals
an atmosphere of suspicion, spying and hiding

a seething lust for the forbidden pleasure
as everybody seizes as much as they can whenever they can
in the end deriving little pleasure from mechanical motions
which paradoxically increases the guilt feelings

otherwise, compelling -- and brave -- report

false dichotomy 22.Mar.2005 01:46


The theoretical debate about the origin or cause of homosexuality is between [1] genetics and [2] personal free will.

[a] "free will" does not compute  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbow_Room

[b] The much ignored pre-natal hormone theory of homosexuality is not necessarily genetic:

[c] Nature doesn't care about overpopulation. Nature doesn't care about anything. "Nature" is human abstraction for the competion between bio-machines for resources.

[d] peak human population is predicted at a potentially sustainable 12 Billion, partly due to negative feedback:
Even this prediction may be overly pessimistic:

thinking about evolution 22.Mar.2005 02:25


Good essay. Some ideas that didn't gel for me:
In regards to christian brainwash camps "...the outcome is usually serious psychological disfunction." Is this just something you would presume to be true or is there fact to back this up?

Wouldn't it be better to just leave out Greece and Rome? They seem to be more of a detraction to your piece then making a point.

In regards to "Indigenous people of Turtle Island (America) usually treated homosexuals with respect and honor" what is your source for this? Contrary to popular belief that there was one religious belief system for the mulititude of nations that predated the euro-asian one that exists now there were many, many religious belief systems as well. Which one(s) do you refer to that had reverence for all homosexuals, treating them like shamans? I think you may have heard a story or two about certain shamans who may have been homosexual but I don't think being homosexual made someone a shaman and I have never heard of any tribe which looked upon queer women as shaman!

While I don't know that I like the idea that homosexuality might be an evolutionary answer to overpopulation any more than I like the idea that it is something that needs to be cured, your essay does a good job making me think!

the DEVIL made me do it ! 22.Mar.2005 02:31

and then god made me sad ...

Most people aren't "tempted" by homosexuality. Most people aren't particularly interested in it. The folks who talk about "temptation" are either regurgitating religious rhetoric or else are closeted, possibly non-practicing bisexuals. I think my old man was one of these guys. He wasn't religious but he talked the same way about homosexuality ... he even reinvented the classic bi line "I think people are sexually attracted to everything" ... since you can't BE somebody else, you can't plug one of these guys into somebody else's head and demonstrate that, no, really, not everybody is. It's still okay if YOU are ...

erm, Turing? 22.Mar.2005 03:08


first, free will is a classic combinatorial explosion
of course, it "doesn't compute"
in any case, noncomputability does not disqualify anything else from existence

luna moth never said nature cares about anything

(s)he certainly does present a "negative feedback" model
which would (partly) stabilize that equilibrium, whatever it is

I don't think luna moth advances a genetic mechanism
to induce a greater population of homosexuals
on the face of it (s)he cannot
and your hormone theory, since hormones are so easily influenced by mood,
is a very plausible mechanism, both prenatal and prepubertial

how many angels 22.Mar.2005 05:34

can dance on their heads

any event is either predictable or random

(well aren't some events in between?)

okay any event is somewhere on a spectrum between predictability and randomness

physically that's all there is ...

so where on the spectrum is "free will"?

free will is changing the subject

choices are ideas we construct in our minds ACCORDING to predictable physical processes

just because a choice is predictable doesn't mean it's coerced or constrained

See Judith Butler for queer theory 22.Mar.2005 09:25


The Self is simultaneously a social construct and free choice.

"Performativity" is at the root of our sexual orientation and language (a social construct as well) names and gives a social reality to our acts of desire. If I understand Butler right(and someone please tell me if I do), it is the sex acts we choose to perform over and over again with a chosen partner/s - because they give us pleasure -that give us in the eyes of society a particular "type" of sexual "label". We "are" not homo or lesbo or anything else. We just perform and form in the process a "category" - but in reality we ARE not a "type" until we choose a performance of a certain orientation more than others. ANd even then we can always change our course of performance. Sexual orientation is not genetically determined even though we would like it to be for social reasons to escape oppression by the "normal" (heteros) who confuse the need to reproduce with the need for pleasurable experiences.
We ARE not this or that...We choose to "BECOME" this or that because we get pleasure of the experience or because we got used to this pleasurable experience. Society's language/label gets in the way and the established norms then oppress me with its static labels. Anyway you look at it, society for various reasons becomes oppressive to those who accept to be "queer" = different, odd, ...

Wait.... What? 22.Mar.2005 09:34


The orignal article's theory makes very little sense to me... Correct me if I'm wrong, but evolution happens when a population of a species lacks a certain characteristic to survive. For example, a few members of a rodent species is better at swimming (feet are more webbed, or something), so they survive in their increasinly watery environment. The swimmers reproduce, pass on their genes, and future generations now have the ability to swim.

I know, it's a bad example, but you get the point.

So how would this apply to the human race and homosexuality? Our destructive habits affects ALL sexualities! Are you proposing that it's some sort of mass, instinctive "reprogramming"? If so, what triggered this? How did an entire species suddenly have this realization?

Thanks a lot!

Interesting 22.Mar.2005 11:53

I didn't know

I didn't know there was homosexuality in the deer species. I heard that chimp females engage in homosexual behavior while they are just entering sexual maturity and this behavior prepares them for engaging in sexual behavior later with a male. Knowing all my gay and bi friends I never doubted that it was some deeper genetic thing driving their behavior. That's why I find the Christians ridiculous. Ofcourse, they doubt evolution when there is all kinds of fossil evidence of man slowly mutating from an ape form to human. Just remember, when someone asks you if you've found Jesus, just say, "Is he lost?"
I saw a Nova special which stated there is part of the brain that appears different in males and females. Some males have the female signature in their brain and visa versa. There's been no study if gays have this female imprint, because they have to get a sliver of the brain from a corpse to observe this difference. The purpose of the program was to shed light on some behaviorists theories in the fifties that stated sex behavior is determined by environment. Infact the purveyor of this theory thought he could change the genitals on a male, raise the child as a female, and no one would notice the difference. Well, this surgery and behavior conditioning screwed up the male it was tried on and the subject, "Brenda" reverted back to living as a male after years of torment. I'd imagine similar emotional distress in demanding gays live as straights. Just something to think about.

Not just "Social"-a Matter of Brain 22.Mar.2005 12:46

Jack Straw

Sexuality is NOT just a social constuct plus free will. Like it or not, we are animals, and a few thousand years of "civilization" (it would be a good idea) do not trump hundreds of thousands, indeed millions, of years of biological evolution. See "The Sexual Brain" by Simon LeVey, good discussion of how brain structures vary, and seem connected to intr-auterine developments propelled by hormone action (or inaction, as it may be), not a matter of genetics all that much, but certaintly of physical PRE-NATAL factors.(no, he's not some Nazi scientist, he's in fact a gay-rights activist). I can stand neither the Christian/religious fundi of all sorts-based homophobia, nor the "correct line" of those activists (esp disciples of post-modernism) who insist we are all bi.

Lived experiences leave a chemical trail, do they not? 22.Mar.2005 18:06

beyond labels

People are not just animals, for heaven's sake - they are a specific type of animal - one that can reason with language - which is a social construct!

Sex has more to do with the environment than genetics or some "pre-natal" phenomenon. It is established that children who, while playing, experiment with the same sex do not forget the pleasures of the early "homo" experiments. Yet they do not all become "homosexuals". Stored chemically in the brain/protein pleasure experienced at an early age is recalled/relived over and over again to stimulate desire for more pleasure. This desire for pleasure can be directed towards any sex of one's chosing...stronger for one gender than another depending on many factors -one being the chemical/memory factor another being the social factor: how I wish to be "perceived" in my environment. The conflict between my deep desires and what society thinks about my choice can be very crippling. For this reason, it is imperative to live/relive one's desires and to experience freedom of choice paying no heed to society's dictates. Repression is destructive and can result in neurosis.

sexuality is just a social construct 23.Mar.2005 01:26


Yes indeed, that is the bisexual party line. As mentioned before, it's impossible to prove to somebody like this that most people are not like them. It's a little like white people who think racism doesn't exist because it doesn't happen to them.

What? Wait.... 23.Mar.2005 01:39


You say "evolution happens when a population of a species lacks [...]", then give as an example a population having something extra. You must be wrong.

Evolution is not about individuals. Sexual orientation is not about individuals, nor about unique or extreme cases.

To take ???'s example, if an environment become permanently watery, individual rodents with abnormal paws or legs or density or nose, might by chance, survive a flood or eat better, whatever, and have an extra kit or two. Over time, that abnormality might slowly become normal, but only if it is wide-spread enough initially. Poorer swimmers might have fewer kits, or fleeing floods, might migrate to areas where a different paw/leg confers a slight advantage.

Many species show sensitivity to over-crowding. There are written records which indicate human homosexuality is expressed more in stressful periods. Crazy-seeming violence, like shooting up schools, is another indicator. It is easier to find plausible causes for individuals in the latter case, but studies of both suffer from social prohibitions against truth-telling.

It is impossible (except in unique and extreme cases) to predict that an individual will exhibit either behaviour. Everybody has little variations in chemistry and history. A slight change in hormones or a hormone-like pollutant, availability of a weapon, some person notices something and acts to influence, the proverbial straw.

Both homosexuals and berzerkers help in small ways to relieve pressure on local resources. The individuals involved don't have as many babies. However, evolution does not respond to or favour individuals. The species or a local sub-population obtains a slightly richer existence, a slightly better chance of survival. For that matter, since almost 100% of our genetic material is identical among all humans, any individual whose death without issue increases the chances to survive of his genetic neighbours thereby increases the chances of his own genetic survival.

homo 23.Mar.2005 06:39

karl roenfanz ( rosey ) k_rosey48@hotmail.com

the causes are three-fold, genetic, enviroment, some fools think its "cool"(those are the same ones who try to spread desease). but using the number 2 in place of to or too makes the whole article sound ignant jus lak da ful dunt no wat es taking bout.

Ok. 23.Mar.2005 12:35


Informative article. Please, don't substitute numbers for words. It doesn't further your cause and it is hard to read.

Funny how... 23.Mar.2005 16:45

Jack Straw

Funny how the bisexual party line is just the flip side of the Christian homophobic one: people somehow choose their orientation, though what the religious fundis think is a sinful choice, the post-modernist bisexual correctness league deems to be the good choice. If it were a choice, many gays would not choose it, given what they have to face. I didn't choose anything, speaking for myself, i didn't even know what it was i was experiencing at first, this sudden intense attraction for girls.

Facistic Diverged Emergence for be penetrated 29.Mar.2005 13:39


The liquid modern theory of being contemplated in such a manner like angels fallen down by penetation matters-of-factly without much thinking in courses of security alliances how to become alleged in queer ostensibles.The awkward memory being bi-sexualized is contemplated and rooted in spirizual white dominated s/m categories of evolution as a stronger illumination being privileged or notable fallen e.g.reduced of
color bewildered attemptiveness as s/he want`s to get some sucumber pretty
as legal theory utilities another abstract: globalization of christianity!

Fuck Off

Science 27.May.2005 02:49


Many scientists have tried to find chemical/biological/genetic proof that homosexuality is an inherant trait given to some. EVERY TIME THE EVIDENCE IS THE SAME! The sexual orientation of a person is their own choice! Genetics have isolated a gene for alcoholism, but if the person affected by the gene never drinks it, the gene is dormant and has no effect. IF there is some gene that remains undiscovered that is to blame for homosexual behavior, IT IS STILL THE PERSON'S CHOICE WHETHER OR NOT TO ENGAGE IN SUCH ACTIVITIES. If the inclinations are not expressed, or denied, but resolved, there is NO HARMFUL RESULT IN RE-EVALUATING YOUR ORIENTATION AND CHOSING to become heterosexual as our anatomies were designed for. It has been scientifically proven that even under the inluence of mind altering drugs, a choice is still made. Not all genes are neccisarily expressed, and many can go dormant.

ps. If homosexuality were an overpopulation control mechanism, it would have no need to be effective now as we are NOT overpopulated, our resources just need to be utilized in a more efficient way that is less harmful to our supporting environment.