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imperialism & war

Calling a Nazi a Nazi

Anyone who has studied the history of the Nazis would be hard pressed to differentiate between a Nazi and a Neoconservative.
The Neocons embrace the ideals of fascism and despise the ideals of democracy. They are suppressing any form of dissent , free speech or justice as demonstrated in the cases of Ward Churchill and Lynne Stewart. They have deployed a finely tuned propaganda machine made to manufacture consent. They commit crimes against humanity using depleted uranium munitions an act of genocide every bit as evil as the gas chambers. They torture and imprison people in concentration camps without charge. They have started a war of aggression and are guilty of all the crimes the Nazis were tried for at Nuremberg. They control the minds of the people with a steady flow of nationalist and religious brainwashing. They have a leader who is intellectually challenged, immature, mentally unstable and completely out of touch with reality.

So when are people going to wake up and start calling these Nazis Nazis? I'd like to think before New York is fire bombed like Dresden, but I'm not holding my breath. Isn't it time the left got some balls and went on the offensive against the Nazi party? We need to out these Nazis before they completely shred what's left of the constitution, make it illegal to call them Nazis, and start rounding up dissidents sending them to the concentration camps. Sound far fetched? well maybe if you're completely ignorant.

The greatest and perhaps the only weakness the Neocons have is being outed as Nazis. Better do something now before we too are silenced and sent to the gas chambers. The German people ignored what was being done in their names because they were too busy enjoying their prosperity and they allowed their leaders to gain too much power through fear. Sound familiar?

I leave you with some quotes from people much wiser than I

"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." Dwight Eisenhower

"Loss of freedom seldom happens overnight. Oppression doesn't stand on the doorstep with toothbrush mustache and swastika armband-it creeps up insidiously . . . step by step, and all of a sudden the unfortunate citizen realizes that it is gone." Baron Lane

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." Martin Niemoeller

"The future isn't between violence and nonviolence, it's between nonviolence and non-existence." Gandhi

"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." Aesop, Greek slave & fable author (620 BC - 560 BC)

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?" Gandhi

"Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." Hermann Goering

"It's come to the point where you can read in the most sober respectable journals warnings by the leading strategic analysts that the current American posture--transformation of the military--is raising the prospect of what they call "ultimate doom" and not very far away." Noam Chomsky

"We have a substantial minority in the US that hasn't advanced much beyond the baboon. These ignorant folk are full of hatred, which is why they are currently rejecting evolution and going back to the stone age with torture, killing innocent people, attacking countries that have done us no harm." Gore Vidal
Yep. 02.Mar.2005 00:56

The Grand Narrator

Yep. "Messenger" has it right.

Bill Mahr 02.Mar.2005 04:57

U. Sam

I saw him the other night talking about churchill. He says that comparing the US to the nazis is a little extreme. I say he's right, there is a new movement, neo-conservatism. This is differen't only in the orchestration, it's much more deceptive and sinister. They learned the mistakes from their counterparts, they're trying not to repeat them. Surpression of information and control of media is the big part. Apparently Bill Mahr doesn't buy bush's "freedom" schpeal, but he buys the "american" freedom schpeal. I was surprised Bill Mahr doesn't see that or didn't have the guts to see it.

A user posted the research that showed 14 similar signs of past fascist regimes, maybe bill would like to take a look at this, makes a pretty strong case for fascists and not nazis. I think "nazis" scares people, so they put the wall of ignorance up, comparing the US to Italy is easier to accept then hitler.

Have the Seeds of Fascism Found Fertile Ground in the United States?

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about
fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying
the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain),
Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14
elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of
fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14
characteristics are:

1)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant
use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public


2)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and
the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that
human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people
tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions,
assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


3)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are
rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a
perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities;
liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.


4)Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government
funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service
are glamorized.


5)Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost
exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles
are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and
anti-gay legislation and national policy.


6)Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the
government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


7)Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by
the government over the masses.


8)Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations
tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate
public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government
leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically
opposed to the government's policies or actions.


9)Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a
fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power,
creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power


10)Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the
only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated
entirely, or are severely suppressed .


11)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote
and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not
uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.
Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse
to fund the arts.


12)Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are
given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing
to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of
patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited
power in fascist nations.


13)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are
governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to
government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect
their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for
national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright
stolen by government leaders.


14)Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a
complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns
against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation
to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation
of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to
manipulate or control elections.



Velcome tu Ah-merika, ur paperz pleaze

There is only one difference. 02.Mar.2005 07:42


A certain segment of the population that makes sure we all remember the Holocaust doesn't give a shit this time because Arabs are being targeted and not Jews.

Same fascist scum, different uniforms.

oops 02.Mar.2005 08:09


The author of this article is Squig.

Messenger saw this article late last night, and with some good cold medication and a desire to get it done quickly was not aware that Squig's name was not attached. Messenger appologizes profusely. It was not an attempt of plagiarism, simply a stupid mistake.

Messenger's goal is to help get good material out to the public in an era of Bushite media control, as the article mentions.

I am very sorry and ashamed that this happened.

something I don't get about the Ward Churchill thing 02.Mar.2005 15:58


Isn't Pat Buchanan (and many other conservatives) saying the same things as Ward Churchill: that terrorism against the US is the inevitable result of current and recent US foreign policy?

Perhaps I'm not following closely enough but are the attack dogs going after Buchanan yet?

Pat Buchanan 02.Mar.2005 16:46


I think the difference is that Pat Buchanan has not said that all the victims had it coming and that they deserved what they got. Rational people are willing to listen to rational ideas, but they sometimes fly off the handle when you seem to support the murder of many thousands going about their daily lives.

I think you are mistaken on 3 points 02.Mar.2005 17:34


>> all the victims had it coming

Actually, Buchanan has made this argument repeatedly. To paraphrase: Terrorism is the price of empire. If you don't want to pay the price give up the empire. Or, as I read Buchanan, we all can expect more terrorism (that is we all "have it coming") so long as the US government insists on a policy that promotes and fuels terrorism.

>> they deserved what they got.

I haven't read any statements of Churchill's where he makes any such claim. He has certainly made the claim that they were working to perpetuate the empire. But that's a far cry from saying people "deserved to be killed". I think he made that quite clear but I suppose clarity is in the eye of the beholder.

>> when you seem to support the murder of many thousands going about their daily lives.

Perhaps to some it may "seem" that way, and that's largely what this "controversy" is all about, managing peoples' perceptions for them. One thing that Churchill wrote really resonated with me:

"It should be emphasized that I applied the "little Eichmanns" characterization only to those described as "technicians." Thus, it was obviously not directed to the children, janitors, food service workers, firemen and random passers-by killed in the 9-1-1 attack. According to Pentagon logic, were simply part of the collateral damage. Ugly? Yes. Hurtful? Yes. And that's my point. It's no less ugly, painful or dehumanizing a description when applied to Iraqis, Palestinians, or anyone else. If we ourselves do not want to be treated in this fashion, we must refuse to allow others to be similarly devalued and dehumanized in our name."

I lost family in the WTC, and those I know that worked there were just going about their daily lives. They weren't ideological zealots of the US Empire and its royal aristocracy. But, as someone who fought against the bombing of Iraq for 10 years I've come to realize the truth in Churchill's statement, that though it may not be elegantly phrased, the people of this country get just as upset about the deaths of their loved ones being called collateral damage as the people in any other country. Again, his last sentence, for emphasis:

"If we ourselves do not want to be treated in this fashion, we must refuse to allow others to be similarly devalued and dehumanized in our name."

And to consider Buchanan on the matter from 1999:

"if we continue on this course of reflexive interventions, enemies will one day answer our power with the weapon of the weak - terror, and eventually cataclysmic terrorism on U.S. soil."

And in finding that I found the quote I referred to above:

"America's huge footprint in the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia led straight to 9/11. The terrorists were over here because we were over there. Terrorism is the price of empire. If you do not wish to pay the price, you must give up the empire."

And, to answer my own question, it didn't take much searching to find republican fascists denouncing Buchanan. Will the conservative movement survive its association with the "neocons" perhaps more accurately called the neo-mercantilists? I suppose only time will tell.