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9.11 investigation

DID ISRAEL ATTACK THE UNITED STATES WITH CHERTOFF'S AID?

It is a little known, but historical fact that Israel has attacked the United States several times. Yet, we now know that our New Homeland Security Chief helped Israel to do so.
In 1954, Israeli agents working in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including a United States diplomatic facility, and left evidence behind implicating Arabs as the culprits. The ruse would have worked, had not one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to capture and identify one of the bombers, which in turn led to the round up of an Israeli spy ring.

Some of the spies were from Israel, while others were recruited from the local Jewish population. Israel responded to the scandal with claims in the media that there was no spy ring, that it was all a hoax perpetrated by "anti-Semites". But as the public trial progressed, it was evident that Israel had indeed been behind the bombing. Eventually, Israeli's Defense Minister Pinhas Lavon was brought down by the scandal, although it appears that he was himself the victim of a frame-up by the real authors of the bombing project, code named "Operation Susannah."

On June 8, 1967, thirty-four fine young American boys died while defending the U.S.S. Liberty against a sustained air and sea attack by the armed forces of the State of Israel. Yes, during the Six Day War between Israel and the Arab States, the American intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked for 75 minutes in international waters by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats. Thirty-four men died and 172 were wounded.

The U.S.S. Liberty was damaged beyond repair and scrapped.

Survivors and many key government officials including Secretary of State Dean Rusk and former Joint Chief of Staffs Chairman, Admiral Thomas Moorer say it was a deliberate act of war.

On June 15, 1986, The United States attacked Muammar Khadaffi. But according to Victor Ostrovsky, a Mossad defector now living in Canada, Ronald Reagan was tricked into bombing Libya by means of a radio transmitter smuggled into Tripoli by the Mossad, which broadcast messages designed to fool the United States into thinking Libya was about to launch a massive terror attack on the west. On the basis of this fake evidence, the US bombed Libya, killing Khadaffi's daughter. Is Victor Ostrovsky correct?

More recently, the FBI, CIA, Secret Service and DEA found the most significant foreign espionage ring ever discovered in the history of the United States. It was a huge spy ring of hundreds of Israelis who penetrated the highest echelons of American intelligence agencies and the American military as reported by Carl Cameron on Fox News Network's Brit Hume Show, December 12, 2002. In a corresponding broadcast on MSNBC, titled U.S. Busts Israeli Spy Ring, March 5, 2002, it was reported that approximately 200 Israeli agents were apprehended for attempting to penetrate the Justice Department, the U.S. judiciary system, several military bases, the FBI, the DEA, the INS and the CIA.

And it was our new Homeland Security Chief, Michael Chertoff, hand-picked by President Bush, who set them free without being charged. Why? Was it because Michael Chertoff's American patriotisms are subordinate to Zionist sympathies?

It is true, if I may respectfully say so, that many Jews appear to hold such ancient allegiances. And, it is also true that Jews salute the Israeli flag; I've discovered this upon conducting secondary research (writings found in the library) and primary research (in-person interviews with Jews who are American citizens who regularly salute the Israeli flag).

Does Micheal Chertoff salute the Israeli flag?

Nevertheless, for many months, members of this Israeli spy ring shadowed half of the September 11th hijackers as well as their leader, Mohammed Atta. In fact, five of these Israeli spies were so carefully watching Mohammed Atta that they actually resided on the same street where he lived in Hollywood, Florida. It is also known that Israeli intelligence penetrated the entire telephone network of the United States. And, in a brazen act of treason, an Israeli company was given the contract to conduct official wiretaps of all U.S. Government surveillance. Yes, as amazing as it seems, an Israeli company directly funded by the Israeli government and with ties to Mossad, Israel's spy agency the motto of which is "Winning Wars Through Deception", was given the contract to provide all the surveillance and wiretaps conducted by the United States Government. This gave Israel the technical ability to wiretap virtually any telephone in the United States including phone lines of U.S. law enforcement officers. Indeed, records reveal that a powerful Israeli drug organization in the United States escaped prosecution because of this Israeli control of our phone systems because the Israelis tapped the telephone conversations of the law enforcement personnel who were investigating them. This was also reported by Carl Cameron on the Fox News Network during the Brit Hume Show that aired December12, 1002.

What is more, during the September 11th attack, five men were caught standing on their van with binoculars focused on the World Trade Center while their companions videoed and enthusiastically celebrated the tragedy. They were apprehended by the FBI, discovered to be Israeli agents in possession of false passports, large sums of cash and a number of box cutters. The FBI held them for months during which time each and every one failed lie detector tests. After their release by Michael Chertoff, our new Homeland Security Chief, they fled to Israel.

Now, what would cause these Israeli spies to cheer upon seeing what was a nightmare for others? To hear about the attack of September 11th or to see it televised put most of us in mild shock. But they saw it in person and from only a few miles. Yet, for them, it caused glee. Why? Why would government agents of our closest ally to whom we have freely given $90 billion, far more than any other country, along with unqualified friendship and unqualified protection find joy in our darkest hour?

There can be no question that their behavior was inspired by specific and pertinent knowledge attached to the event. To be sure, they must have known who was responsible and who would benefit. They certainly appeared to be celebrating a victory. Apparently, they believed that the September 11th attack would be good for Israel, for it would make their enemies our enemies; we would become allies to them in their war against the Arab world, particularly, their greatest threat, Iraq; and as a byproduct of our war mentality, it would be easier for Israel to prosecute its war against Palestine. I feel it is fatuously obvious this was the cause of their celebration atop that van.

It is also more than a little peculiar that no Israelis died in the World Trade Center attack. Although the President, in his State of the Union Address shortly after September 11th, stated that 130 Israelis died in the attack, he was incorrect. For not a single Israeli citizen died in the World Trade Center. This in spite of the fact that, on the morning after the attack, the Jerusalem Post reported 4,000 Israelis were believed to be in the area of the World Trade Center. Please see the September 11, 2001 Jerusalem Post article titled, Thousands of Israelis Missing Near WTC, Pentagon. Then on September 22, 2002, The New York Times later reduced the 130 casualties to one single casualty in an article by Eric Lipton titled, Estimates of Toll May Be Too High. Presently, most reports state that no Israelis, whatsoever, died on that awful day.

No Israeli casualties in the World Trade Center would be simply impossible, it seems, unless the Israeli Government received prior warning of the attack and, in turn, relayed the warning to some of the Israelis at the World Trade Center. Ten days after Bush's State of the Union Speech, the FBI confirmed that warning messages of the impending attack were, in fact, received by an Israeli firm, Odigo, at its offices located in both Israel and in the World Trade Center. The article titled, Odigo Says Workers Were Warned of Attack, written by Yuval Dror was published in the September 29th, 2001 edition of Ha'aretz, one of Israel's most prominent newspapers.

The evidence appears to be unambiguous. Israel must have known of the World Trade Center attack well in advance, and then in a startlingly act of murderous betrayal warned its nationals while letting Americans die horrific deaths. Yes, apparently Israel cold-heartedly stood by as Americans died while it could have easily warned them. But then, evidently, that is what Israel wanted. As mentioned before, Israel wanted the September11th tragedy for it would garner American support for Ariel Sharon's agenda against Islamic nations, especially Palestine, Iraq and Iran. That is why the Israeli spies were rejoicing at our countrymen's death on September 11th.

Is this a formula? Is September 11th related to the Iraqi War as is the Lusitania to World War I and Pearl Harbor to World War II? To be sure, many historians now believe the sinking of the Lusitania and the attack of Pearl Harbor were staged with Roosevelt's and Churchill's knowledge.

Was September 11th another case of an Israeli terror attack upon the United States like the Lavon Affiar and the attack of the U.S.S. Liberty?

Of course, the Israelis are using our money, our weapons and the lives of our young men to achieve their agenda. Ten thousand of our finest people have been maimed for life and well over one thousand have died in Iraq. Yet, unlike Israel, Iraq has, paradoxically, never committed an act of war or terror against the United States.

And, Michael Chertoff is keeping watch over us. Or is he just watching us?

add a comment on this article

The Lavon Affair and the attack of the U.S.S Liberty are real! 11.Feb.2005 19:06

Larry

The Lavon Affair and the attack of the U.S.S. Liberty are real! Israel really did attack the United States. President Lyndon Johnson even called back the U.S. Air Force jets - twice - that were scrambled to their rescue! Research it on the Internet if you don't believe it.

It is no big surprise that Israel would be a part of 9-11. It was in their interest!

THINK about it.

Imperialism: A War Without End 11.Feb.2005 20:55

Bush8ter


I've said it before and I'll say it again - ISRAEL IS NOT OUR FRIEND! 11.Feb.2005 21:10

Bill White

I've said it before and I'll say it again - ISRAEL IS NOT OUR FRIEND!

Wake up America!

Support our troops, bring'em home!

Israel is not Israel's friend either 12.Feb.2005 06:41

eyes closed tight

Check out these israeli soldiers who refuse to the bidding of their government as it pertains to killing and abusing palestinians.

Moral Soldiers Defying an Immoral Government
 http://www.supportthetruth.com/

There are more of us who want peace: arabs, jews, americans...the whole world. It's the old geezers and their fat cat banking buddies who gain from terrorizing us with their back room deals and phony wars. It's all bullshit. Here's isreal attacking it's own citizens:

Typical Israeli timeline:

1)Peace summit arranged in Egypt between Sharon and Abbas.

2)On the morning of February 7, a day before the summit is to start, Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told Israel Army Radio that he had received intelligence warnings that some militants, including Hezbollah, may try to disrupt the summit.

3)Due to the intelligence warnings, Israel Police moved to a level III heightened alert status, one level below a state-of-emergency.

4)Like clockwork, on the afternoon of February 7, rockets rained down on the northern Israeli town of Nahariya, and were immediately described by Israeli police as Katyusha rockets fired by Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon.

5)Later in the same day, the attack was described as the result of 'human error' involving a failed test by an Israeli weapons manufacturer in the area. It was made clear - some might say too clear - that although the failed test took place on an IDF firing range and was by a weapons company closely associated with the IDF, the IDF had nothing to do with it.


Obviously, the IDF attempted to disrupt the summit, or even provide a reason to call it off, by faking a rocket attack by Hezbollah. It wasn't a coincidence that the Israeli Defense Minister announced the possibility of an attack in the morning, and a faked attack occurred in the afternoon. This is the usual Israeli terrorist bullshit. On times too numerous to mention, whenever Sharon needs political cover to hide some outrage he is committing a convenient 'Palestinian' attack pops up to distract the press and make the poor, poor Israelis look like victims again. This time they were caught red handed, and had to come up with the laughable excuse of 'human error' in rocket testing (you've got to be kidding!). But here's the good part, and the aspect of this whole sordid matter that inspires some optimism. They were busted, and they were busted by IDF insiders. People in the IDF was so disgusted by the trickery that they spilled the beans, resulting in the necessity of the ridiculous cover story to explain the inconvenient fact that rockets coming from an IDF firing range were landing on an Israeli town. It wouldn't do for people to find out that crazies in the IDF were willing to murder Israelis in order to stop the peace process. The good news is that there are Israelis, including Israelis in the IDF, who wouldn't let them get away with it. If Israel is ever to have peace, we need to see more of this whistleblowing.

 http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/02/fake-rocket-attack.html

Look at the US $1 bill 12.Feb.2005 10:06

Anarchy-nonymous

The six-pointed Star of David, the symbol of Israel that is printed on its flag, is printed on The Great Seal of the United States for a reason.

Why 12.Feb.2005 11:51

anonymous

Why can't we all just get along peacefully?

"Atta" was an Israeli man 12.Feb.2005 12:40

Egghead

"Atta" ate pork and did not speak German (the real Atta studied in Germany).
The Israelis were not "watching" Arab terrorists, they were impersonating Arab terrorists.

Haaretz confirms Odigo warning 12.Feb.2005 12:54

Cleopatra

Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper did confirm that Odigo, a messenger service located in the WTC did receive a warning the morning of the attacks that the attacks were coming. In light of the "new" revelantions in the NYT, which are old revelation on the internet the the gov. received at least 52 rather specific warnings prior to the attack from multiple intelligence services. Also it was revealed at Mad Cow Productions in "Mohammad Atta and the Flying Circus" that this so call religious muslim ate pork, enjoyed lap danses, drank alcohol and spoke five languages, including Hebrew. Further, as reported in the mainstream press, there were no Arabs listed in any of the passenger manifests, but there was a Daniel Lewin who was a Mossad agaent. LIHOP.
 http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/09/WTC_Odigo.html
 http://www.madcowprod.com/

You asked why 12.Feb.2005 12:56

Truthist

Because pease simply isn't as profitable.

Yes Israel Did It 12.Feb.2005 15:59

Michael David Kittell mikhl@mac.com

Israel is a Shabbatean-Masonic enterprise. It is the same ongoing conspiracy as the "Founding Fathers" of the United States. (n.b. "Liberty" is the goddess Luna Lucifera of Rome, that is the bride of Lucifer).
9/11 was done as preamble to building a sham Temple in Jerusalem, a temple of Hiram and baal, not of God.
9/11 was a "Scientology Black Not." It wsas boasted of in works such as Battlefield earth and Blows Against The Empire State. Scientologists believe a catastrophic event such as a volcanic eruption, can be harnessed to control a population. 9/11 was a synthetic engram event. It was acted in a pageant in Berkley in 1989, when two planes passed over the crowd to the tune of Das Massenherbe.
In 1971 Israel issued a coin depicting on one side the Dimona reactor, and on the obverse the Scientology wheel, spiral, and 8-pointed Rosicrucian star-cross.
The same outfit killed JFK. They got away with that and the Liberty attack, because traitors like LBJ (the W of his time) were complicit...
Always blame Israel, and Scientology.

610 649-4119
83 Rittenhouse Place B-8

Star Of David-symbol in our high court 12.Feb.2005 17:19

Israel first to Jews

 http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/calendar.html
Why did Germans hate Jews???Does anyone care to know?Hitler's top men were mostly jews--how did the hatred develope?
The goofuses ,that dislike us in questioning Israel-need a swift kick up the arus.
In Toronto's High Court of ontario----at Osgood Hall-named after a Jew,the sky-lite adrons a 50 ft star of david.
 http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1349.htm
If the jews don't stop---repeat of history--mark my words--IsraOil
How is it that over36% of professors are jewish and washington top dogs are at 51% and the main USA media is 100% zionist Jews???WHY?
So let us not pick on Israel---then who--As*holes for the mess!?

why should one believe any of this? 12.Feb.2005 17:37

don joe

this article cites zero credible sources for any of its innumerable assertions, and one that is anything but credible: the Fox News Network, whose spoutings have nothing to do with news and everything to do with shoving a right-wing agenda down Americans' throats.

can the author give one single reason why any intelligent person should believe a word of this?

i don't think so.

Examine the Origo story carefully 12.Feb.2005 18:25

gertrude bouquet

First things foremost, I should state that I can't muster a good word to say for Israel. It's a deeply toxic, inherently racist colonial cesspit of rabid ideological madmen. Israel has had it's day - it's a failed project, now let's see the land returned to its rightful owners.

However, the Zionist state aside, the Origo story needs careful thought.

What we have here is the CEO of an Israeli company, Origo, admitting in a liberal Zionist propaganda organ, Ha'aretz, that an unknown number of users of his company's messaging system had prior of the forthcoming attacks of 911. Fair enough but it's right to dig deeper.

The fact that the CEO was willing (or forced) to speak on public record in admitting this fact, should be enough to vindicate both him and his company from allegations of complicity (through an implied conspiracy of silence) in the atrocities of that dreadful day. He could easily have told the Ha'aretz journalists that he was 'unable to comment' on the allegations before referring them to the FBI or the Israeli security services. He did not do that - he seized the bull by the horns, and stated what he saw to be facts.

The Origo foreknowledge allegation should perhaps be considered along with Carl Cameron's Fox News story about the Israeli 'art students' who were penetrating US military establishments in the immediate period before 911, and also the Israeli 'high fivers' who were said to have celebrated as they video-taped the collapse of the Twin Towers.

Let's take it deeper: Fox News is a rabidly Zionist outfit. I don't recall ever hearing a Fox report that was in any meaningful way critical of Israel. That acknowledged, why was Cameron all but told to peg the Israelis out to dry for foreknowledge, and for 'celebrating' 911? Rupert Murdoch is said to micro-manage his 'news' network, so why was Israel taking a hit at this of all times? Could it be that Israel was being set up, by the US establishment as a "second-layer patsy" for 911? A case of 911: the Arabs dunnit, but Israel knew, and did nothing, when all along, Uncle Sam was himself the perpetrator of the most monstrous false flag operation in modern history? Israel - the second-level patsy - the nation that took the flak when the heat hit Uncle Sam?

In that vein, Chaim Kupferberg, a Jew presumably, who publishes on Professor Michel Chossudovsky's GlobalResearch.Ca website, is worth a read, IMHO:

 http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html


Compost this shit immediately. 12.Feb.2005 18:27

Varro

It *so* helps Indymedia to have anti-Semitic conspiracy theories paraded around as fact.

Why would any intelligent reader be thrown off .... 12.Feb.2005 19:18

Richard Head

... from a wholly consistent theme of rational explanation, covering many points of means, method and motivation - by a probable nay-sayer trying to sound neutral.

Would such a 'doubter' speak up to inform if knowing better than the NYT's retraction of said numbers killed - perhaps regarding specific pre-9/11 warnings?

That would be even more unlikely.

The record is very clear: consistent betrayal, consistent denial, and consistent loyalty to a cause defined by little more than collective greed.

Lots of credible sources 12.Feb.2005 19:28

Bush Lost Twice

Here is a good set of VERIFIABLE 9/11 references:  http://911research.wtc7.net/resources/web/index.html

Most of these 9/11 stories appeared BRIEFLY in local newspapers, or local TV reports. All these stories were quickly hushed up by the neocon criminals who are in control of the media and the country. There are some amazing video downloads on that link, which were only aired one time.

Skepticism is a good thing, but there are so many verifiable sources, and links to the original stories, that it is impossible to come to a different conclusion. When all the dots line up in a straight line, any other theory is the unlikely one. Let's face it - democracy is over in the United States. Just look at the exit polls from Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania, in 2004. That's why Bush can mess with social security - they control the vote counting and don't care about public opinion!

Israeli soldiers refusing to commit atrocities 12.Feb.2005 20:08

Mike

Every one needs to check this out! Israeli soldiers refusing to commit atrocities:
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/278573.shtml
If you support what they're doing then let them know!
People are always looking for solutions, and what they can do, these guys are a BIG part
of the solution and letting them know you support them is something that any one can do!


Hey Varrow 12.Feb.2005 20:17

Staff Sgt

Why is it that everytime (without fail) whenever people engage in this type of dicussion, someone like Varrow cries antisemitism? Tell us Varrow, how do you explain the well documented murederous attack on the USS Liberty? Let's hear your version. Why is it that US vetoes any UN resolution aimed at stopping Israel from their continued violence against their Arab neighbors? I could on and on, but much has already been discussed. Besides, why are you even here Yarrow? The word spy comes to mind...

There's so much evidence to support what is being discussed here that you should be ashamed Varrow. I would suggest that you find a compost pile and burrow yourself as deep as you can into it's darkness to escape the light of day. And take your slimy spying friends with you. Many Americans are finally waking up to your agenda thanks to the Internet and websites like this one. You can rest assure your days of deceit and treachery are numbered.

No more dying for Israel, bring the troops home.

anti-semetic claim is for brain washed puppets 12.Feb.2005 20:33

Glowform

anti-semetic claim is for brain washed puppets who have no facts and can't think for themselves. It's something that any moron can repeat at any time. Being against nazis is not anti-German, being anti-Bush or Clinton is not anti-American but being against the racist murdering policies of Sharon br8ings out immediate cries from the mindless programmed sheeple like the moron above, Varrow, just another self serving racist to stupid to even try to think. What's the matter Varrow, can't handle the truth? Too stupid, to lazy or just a rcist piece of ignorant piece of slime in denial?

more information on Israel 12.Feb.2005 20:41

Mike

at  http://www.SupportTheTruth.com about 2/3 down are some documentary videos.

Anthrax Investigation stream download (real player)
Isreal Spying on USA:
part 3 (real player streaming only)
part 4 (real player streaming only)

Remeber the anthrax investigation that quietly and suddenly went away? That's because the real suspect was col Zack, an Israeli zionist who was removed for his racist hatred for Arabs, since it didn't point to Arabs like the administraion wanted, it was swept under the political rug. There's also a great bbc documentary on the USS Liberty called:

dead in the water.

here's why the story is silly 12.Feb.2005 21:16

d

first off, I think that Isreal is in the wrong in many instances, but this article moves from the probable to the outlandish.

it is things like this that make this story into a joke:
"It is true, if I may respectfully say so, that many Jews appear to hold such ancient allegiances. And, it is also true that Jews salute the Israeli flag; I've discovered this upon conducting secondary research (writings found in the library) and primary research (in-person interviews with Jews who are American citizens who regularly salute the Israeli flag).

Does Micheal Chertoff salute the Israeli flag? "

I mean this is the same shit people say to discriminate against Catholics in politics. Even though there are facts to back up certain alligations against Isreal it is just ludacris to believe that Jews are sinister figures plotting towards some unknown and mysterious ends. The bottom line is that Isreal treats the Palestinians like shit, they are a war mongering power, and yes they even have some spies of there own (what country doesn't?) but that's about all I'll give this author.

d, do you know who Sibel Edmonds is? 12.Feb.2005 21:32

Mike

You can find a lot of stuff on her from any search engine. Many Jews who are in high places in the US have a higher loyalty to Israel than to America. Any one who tries to imply all Jews do is delusional and probably racist, but the facts are concrete that our foreign policies are being dictated by Israeli loyalist. Her whistle blowing is very revealing on the Israeli-American situation. As a jew she was approached to work for the Isreali Intel/Mossad, when she refused and reported it (she had to re-report it for 3 years because it was continuously ignored) John Ashcroft gave her a choice of accepting a pay raise to shut up, or be arrested. She chose not to be bribed or silenced. A great American and a great jew at the same time.

one problem 12.Feb.2005 21:58

d

i think one problem is that you guys refer to Israelis as Jews.... being a Jew has little or nothing to do with being a member of the Israeli government... people need to be careful when they start calling Jews conspirators because then we cross the line into racist witch hunting.... Jews are not the problem... Jews are not our enemy and Jews in America are not trying to undermind our country. The government of Isreal IS acting horribly but where this article goes way wrong is that it starts claiming that the Jews are behind all the misfortunes of America. Even if some of these claims are true (though some sources would be nice) it is extremely stupid to start throwing around attacks on a religion or a people at large (WHICH THIS ARTICLE DOES)... I would never say that criticising the policies of Israel is wrong but this article begins to become a McArthy-esque piece where we are finding Jews hiding under rocks and in the toilet bowel

According to Sharon all jews are Isrealis 12.Feb.2005 22:39

Mike

It's called dual citizenship, and any jew in the world is also an israeli citizen, even Sibel Edmonds who is now an American and was born in Turkey. That's why they approached her, they thought her jewish ancesttory would automatically make her an Israeli zionist loyalist. Not much different from the kkk expecting a red neck white boy from the south to be a white supremecist. And The people who are trying to create Isreal as an only jewish state are the Sharon people:
"Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's cabinet Sunday voted to endorse a bill that would allow areas within Israel which have been designated as state land to be devoted to residential use by Jews alone."
 http://www.rense.com/general26/jwes.htm
So if you don't like the correlation between Israel and jews, remeber it is Sharon trying to make it synonamous.
So when Sharon tries to make Israel Jews only that's not racist, but when someone points it out, that is an anti-semetic witch hunt? This article makes some points, but could you show me where it says:
"it starts claiming that the Jews are behind all the misfortunes of America." (your words, more precisely, your exagerations).
As far as sources go, you do know how to use a search engine like google, right. If you want to check out information that's the best way, it took only a minute to get a source on the 200 Israelis claim:
 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp...
There have also been posted that there are bbc documentaries on the uss liberty and a fox report on Israel spying on America at  http://www.SupportTheTruth.com. How much spoon feeding do you need? The information is available to any one that really wants to know. Maybe you just don't want to know.
Truth is truth and can only be comprehended without emotions blocking the rational thinking. *(paraphrased Ghandi). In my opinion America is responsible for America's problems, but part of that problem is that America has allowed itself to be governed by people who do not put America first.

Question for d 12.Feb.2005 22:56

glowform

you said:
being a Jew has little or nothing to do with being a member of the Israeli government

Really? Can you name a single member of the Israeli government that isn't jewish? That's like naming a member of the Saudi Arabian that isn't muslum. When a government is bent on ethnicly cleansing the minorities and claiming religious doctrine as the foundation and mandate for the genocide, it is impossible to seperate the talk of government without religion.

anti-semetic, we've already been here 13.Feb.2005 05:20

eyes closed tight

*puts book under arms* Let's go to school.

The DICTIONARY, we all know what that is right? www.m-w.com (just in case)

SEMITE
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and ARABS b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

an·ti-Se·mit·ic
hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
-----------------------------

I don't get it. A semite includes arabs, but an anti-semite is only jews? Somebody is playing tricks on all of us. So again, you either support the fat-cats that would have you die for profit and lies or not. The message is very simple. We are all humans and bleed the same. Escape the labels that your masters divide you with.

The term "anti-Semitism" 13.Feb.2005 07:39

Carlos

Regularly someone asks why "anti-Semitism" should apply only to hostility towards Jews and not to prejudice against other Semitic peoples or Semitic-language speakers.

The answer is that the term "anti-Semitism" was coined by a 19th century German journalist who used it to denote the traditional European persecution of Jews.

At that time Jews were the only Semites in Europe so the term applied only to discrimination against them, and still does. Significant immigration into Europe from Arab countries did not occur until much later, the second half of the 20th century.

As these Moslem immigrants are not always well treated either, there's now a new term: "Islamophobia".

My Thanks to Phillip Yardley 13.Feb.2005 10:36

Bill

Thank you, Phillip Yardley for your article. It has helped me connect the dots about Israel and what is happening in the world.

I was formerly a born-again Christian and, consequently, believed that the Jews were God's people. Now that I have truly opened my eyes, I now see that such a notion is atop the pinnacle of absurdity.

I was a liecensed minister with the Southern Baptist Convention at the age of twenty and very dedicated. But my life is so, so much lighter and better now. Thank God!

I digressed at little there. It just feels so good to be away from religion's mass hysteria.

Mr. Yardley, if you happen to read this note, I hope you know how much I appreciate your article.

Thanks,

Bill

"anti-semitism" 13.Feb.2005 15:33

jill

The German proff was clearly wrong. There were a lot of non-Jewish Arabs etc in Europe for hundreds of years... Especially in Spanish speaking areas.

THe question I have is why is use of the word "anti-semite" so important? To most people it means anti-jewish and there are other words for anti-Arab or other discrimination. I'm anti-zionist but I'm also not really sure how reclaiming this word can actually help the debate or convince anyone at all?

I do 13.Feb.2005 17:17

eyes closed tight

Human beings. That's how most people describe each other who aren't racist. It may be a little ahead for this time period though.

Anti-semetic makes no sense then. Much like the argument. It's not jews, israelis, zionists. They're traitors to the human race. How's that? Scum is scum is scum, let's not mince words. If they come from Miami or jerusalem and they're scum, they're still scum. It's not my fault most of them are jewish, they should of thought of that before they started running around setting up terrorist hoaxes and killing people for profit.

Are there any jews out there who do not support killing people for profit? Because you have friends out there making a bad name for you, maybe you should do something about it, instead of living in fear. Imagine a jew calling another jew, "zionist scum", then we'd be getting somewhere. I call my president traitorous scum, go ahead you can do it, we're behind you.

yeah 13.Feb.2005 18:29

jill

Zionists are traitors to the human race. But I know lots of Jews who are not and who do call them "zionist scum".

For example these guys:
 http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/87434_comment.php#87544
 http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/613/613p7.htm

I recently read a report about so-called "anti-semitism" on the left which made me laugh because the organisations it mentioned as "anti-semitic" - aside from just supporting Palestine and not being anti-jewish at all - at least two of them (which I had personal involvement in) had a very large proportion of Jewish members.

My question about specifically anti-jewish sentiment being reffered to as "anti-semitism" has still not been answered. What is the benefit of trying (it is unlikely to succeed) to re-claim this word? It just seems like a non-issue to me.

To Sgt Scum and Grubworm 13.Feb.2005 21:34

Varro

The only thing us liberals are waking up to is the presence of anti-Semites and fellow-travelers with neo-Nazis in our midst.

We're tossing the people throwing out outlandish conspiracy theories (such as the Mossad blowing up the WTC, and Atta being an Israeli).

The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty has absolutely nothing to do with 9-11. Plonk you, Sgt. Scum.

the power of getting away with it in the past makes them predictable 14.Feb.2005 02:45

hmm

"The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty" SHOW EXACTLY THE WAY THEY HAVE OPERATED IN THE PAST AND EXPECTED TO GET AWAY WITH IT. So why change their strategy?

Israels behaviour 14.Feb.2005 04:12

Biscuit

It is sad to see, that a country (read: Israel) uses the same poor excuse everytime someone accusses them of something. Everytime Israel gets into trouble, they usually point fingers at their accussators and call them anti-semitists. Thereby, they radikalize the debate, by encouraging either to be a friend of Israel or an anti-semite. Thats one trap we have to avoid in the debate. All though it may be true that a lot of jews have a kind of loyal feeling towards Israel, we can't just call all Israelis "potential traitors/zionists" or "potential Mossad-agents". A lot of jews don't like what Israel are doing. Therefor I think, that everytime Mossad is suspected of behavior that would serve Israeli goals, call it what it is: A state's (Israels) attempt to reach their goals. Don't just walk straight into the trap and condemn all jews for Israels behaviour. And Israels behaviour (or should we say the US governments responses to these) are concerning. They have nuclear weapons, violate international law and breaks UN resolutions without anyone doing anything. And when someone do, the USA is there imidiately to veto any resolution against them. Also we must acknowledge that Israeli sympathisers (and I'm not talking about some kind of fifth column) in the US have great lobbying power and other kinds of influencial tools to make the US serve their goals (this is the only way to explain why the USA allows Israel to get away with spying against them). So why is it that Israel behaves like this? My guess is, that they are scared shitless! People who have been persecuted, (and damn how they've persecuted through the last two thousand years) persecute others. (Just look at the way Israel is treating the palestinians). To worsen the situation, Israel have enemy states on all sides (the whole of the moslem world, who has good reason to be pissed at them), which makes Israel even more proned to behave like a rat that's been cornered.
It's no wonder the Mossad does what it does around the world. Their first objective is Israeli security, and therefore the price of this goal can never be to high. The Israeli government is so afraid of its security that it will go to great lenghts to secure it. Regarding the 9/11 attacks, it is reasonable to ask whether Israel (read: Israeli goals) gained from it. THEY DID!!! But that doesn't mean Israel did it (and it doesn't mean they didn't.) What I think is pretty obvious is, that as a minimum Mossad (and the Israeli government?)knew what was about to happen, but in self-interest, they choose to reveal nothing. But it is still also a possibility that Mossad had something to do with it, maybe even encouraging it. But masterminding the event would be to dangerous an operation, because it could turn USA against Israel. So, how do we end this behaviour from Mossad and the israeli government. By making peace, stability and security in the middle east the top priority. And that is not done by invading country after country.

Did someone say pull it? 14.Feb.2005 05:50

U. Sam

Hey check it out, this is a real live demolition:

 http://portland.indymedia.org/media/media/2005/02/310228.wmv

Some traitors involved in the conspiracy of silence, think this building melted:

 http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html

and this is a raging tower of inferno that burned for 17hours in madrid last week...that did not collapse
 http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,341544,00.html

and this is venezuela, same thing, no collapse
 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/venezuela_fire.html

The 9/11 WTC fires - where's the inferno?
 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_fire.html

Are we done trying to figure out if jews from miami like to dance salsa? Maybe the mossad knows, but I bet Bush could tell us on the stand and under oath, without wearing a wire, and in front of an independent panel. Bush won't do that though, because he's a coward just like his father. Fuck the zionists, this is America, let Israel deal with their own garbage. We have our own trash to take out, I'd like Bush on trial.

How long will jews play the holoacaust card on Americans? I have a japanese american friend, he doesn't remind me every day of the Japanese. I also have an indian friend, he doesn't remind me every day that we committed genocide on them. I have a black friend that doesn't remind me about the slave trade every day. I have a russian friend that has never told me about stalin and the fact that he killed more then hitler. Why are jews so intent on making everyone feel guilty, especially americans? Wasn't it the Germans or did I miss something?

Is that what's next? You won't vote liebermann for president because your a jew hater, yeah, that's it! Nanny nanny poo-poo...in this country, we call ourselves Americans first. Learn about American attrocities before you start feeling guilty for the jews, that's germany's job. Was it a bad thing, yes, *takes off rosey glasses*, there are allot of bad things, state sponsored terrorism is one of them.
wow, those spaniards really know how to build them
wow, those spaniards really know how to build them
kill the gays, but remember the holocaust
kill the gays, but remember the holocaust

jesus... do you miss the point? 14.Feb.2005 14:46

d

the point isn't that we are dismissing claims against the Israeli government, it's that we are saying that you are walking into dangerous territory when you start attacking Jews as a whole.... should each American be called evil just because our president is evil? i know a lot of people that are working their asses off to try and change that. you attack me for getting emotional or trying to hide from the truth..... you want to talk about emotional, look at you guys getting so worked up about a government that you begin to forget that there is no such thing as a Jewish people.... there are individuals who happen to be Jewish... each individual should be held accountable for their own actions, not the actions of their president/dictator/king/neighbors.... last time i looked there were many israeli groups out there protesting the human rights violations of their own government.... but just like in this country, most people prefer to live lives of the status quo so they can survive and take care of their families by playing by the rules whether they agree with them or not.... it is rediculous to attack a people EVER on a whole.... Sharon (and others who perpetrate and perpetuate crimes against humanity) SHOULD be held accountable BUT you are commiting a great fallacy to believe that just because Sharon is a jew, the jews are all Sharon....

AND don't pull this bullshit that Jews hold some secret allegience with their motherland or that they are concpirators just because they hold duel citizenships.... many americans hold duel citizenships, my step mother held a duel citizenship and she wasn't a fucking spy. Of course immigrents are always going to be worried and empathetic towards the country they came from, it's just commen sence. If you're a Cubs fan and you move to San Fransico, you'll probably become a Cubs and 49's fan but that doesn't mean you are a traitor towards either team. I know that's a stupid analogy but it kind of works.

Furthermore, what's this bullshit about put America first or "this is America" or you're a traitor if you don't think of America first, or fuck the haulocaust let's think about America. Are you lefties starting to become righties? Are you picking up American flags now? The whole idea of country is bullshit (i think anarchists should know this). Things that happen in the middle east and in Israel do effect the entire globe. Everytime a person oppresses another it is a violation and attack on people as a whole not merely a group. Because like countries, organizing people in to groups is a false, man-made phenomena. What about solidarity? Did you guys forget about that too? (the Wobblies will happy to hear that right?) Issolationism is bullshit because countries are bullshit. We should be fighting for equality and justice for all people not condemning an entire religious group for the actions of some. You guys are becoming the exact same thing as the rush limbaugh crew, only calling it something different. Fuck the American government, fuck the country of Israel, and fuck Palestine, but love and fight for the people.

Karl Marx rejected all religious opium! 15.Feb.2005 08:21

enough is enough

A jewish friend once told me that Marx was anti-jew. I pondered on that for a long time. Now I understand why he hated Marx so. Anyone who has the courage to opt for liberation from religious myth and face the problems right on distabilizes the weak minded, the insecure, to seek refuge in the norm.

Clear thinkers know that the norm is a social construct.They know that those in power create the norm, feed the norm and shun all dissenters.

So let's go after oppressors of all shades and colors!

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