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Here is a summary of the previous information circulating about Gunderson's PRISONER BOXCARS WITH SHACKLES from previous reports circulating all over the nation on this subject, which I have written. BRENT GUNDERSON is challenging my information. CAN YOU PROVE HIM WRONG???
Many people have raised skeptical questions about reports of prisoner BOXCARS AND SHACKLES being sighted across America. Some people think that they are only reported originally through Phil Schnieder in a Patriot interview.
Recently, someone erroneously reported that MY information on them originated from Phil Schnieder.

WRONG! My research and documentation on the boxcars and shackles goes far beyond Philīs interview. Long before I heard of him, I had eyewitness information on these boxcars. A van full of eyewitnesses, missionaries traveling across America to evangelize and pray, stumbled across these boxcars in Montana, near Columbia Falls in Glacier. They described
boxcars, in this case painted black, with shackles welded into them and a modern guillotine at the head of each boxcar inside. As they were photographing mountain scenery, they decided to follow railroad tracks into the wilderness so as to not get lost. This is how they came upon these boxcars with shackles. I later received a report from Lee Harrington of Valier, MT, who was a professional metal worker. He told me how in Glascow, MT, summer youth workers were employed to weld shackles into boxcars in that operation.
They were then shipped west to Glacier and stored on remote sidetracks. Passing through the Blackfoot Indian Reservation in Cutbank, a local Blackfoot Indian, George Bullcalf, spotted these strange boxcars, some with open doors and shackles, plainly visible, passing through the reservation.

When I interviewed local Patriots in Columbia Falls, they confirmed that hunters often stumbled upon such boxcars on remote train spurs in that wilderness region.

I THEN TRAVELED TO PORTLAND OREGON, and lectured in the home of an actual employee of GUNDERSON STEEL FABRICATION. The wife of this high level executive called this meeting personally to make a public admission. In the meeting were OTHER GUNDERSON EMPLOYEES who had witnessed the prisoner boxcars in the higher than normal, three floor/three tier prisoner boxcars.

She admitted that her husband finally told her that GUNDERSON WAS UNDER SECRET CONTRACT FROM THE US GOVERNMENT TO PRODUCE THESE PRISONER BOXCARS. She also admitted that Gunderson had a satellite factory for a boxcars with shackles operation in Texas. \

I called Col. Jim Ammerman in Texas, famous military Patriot-lecturer against martial law, and told him about this. He replied, "A friend of mine who is a metal welder called me recently, and said he had gone to apply for a job in offered in Texas for welding. When he was told that it involved WELDING SHACKLES INTO BOXCARS, he declined the job!"

I later interviewed Russian immigrants in this area who admitted that some of their people were working at Gunderson, and one young man, Sasha, admitted working on prisoner boxcars and described them completely to his Russian Christian friends there. THE RUSSIAN COMMMUNITY NOW KNOWS ABOUT THEM AND IS VERY AFRAID OF THE IMPLICATIONS!!! Many Russians still work there.

Another source, WATCHDOG, a retired military vet with a watchdog group, described yet another boxcar with shackles operation in New Hampshire, with three tiered boxcars fitted with shackles.

Metal worker Lee Harrington also described 20,000 CHINESE prisoner boxcars with shackles and modern guillotines, in the form of 40 foot railroad containers, coming into America via the west coast. They were ordered by the American government through a Senator who visited China and ordered these items. Workers unloading them became suspicious and began to investigate and discovered these horrors from China. Such 40 foot cargo containers from China are now piled up along the West Coast, especially around Long Beach Naval Shipyard, turned over the Chinese.
I receive constant reports across America regarding these types of
prisoner boxcars from former radio listeners and Patriots across America...and Canada. Recently, a former high level satanist from the mountains of North Carolina, now a Christian and receiving discipleship, admitted that boxcars with shackles were indeed in the mountains of NC and waiting for the hour of martial law. (Asheville, NC) He warned that many Patriots and Christians arrested and secured into these prisoner boxcars under martial law will
never even make it to the death camps..that many will be tortured and sacrificed once restrained in these prisoner boxcars.

So letīs set the record straight! I have done painstaking research, involving thousands of miles of travel, research and interviews. They are real, and they pose a deadly threat to the Patriot community under martial law. BE ADVISED!

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Gunderson Offers $1,000 REWARD for PHOTO PROOF OF THEIR PRISONER BOXCARS!!!! 10.Feb.2005 13:34

By Pamela Schuffert mytwaryor4JC@hotmail.com

author: Pamela Schuffert, author, journalist
e-mail:  mytwaryor4JC@hotmail.com
It has been alleged that GUNDERSON STEEL OF PORTLANT OR has been under SECRET GOVERNMENT CONTRACT to produce PRISONER BOXCARS AND SHACKLES for the US GOVERNMENT to use for the hour of MARTIAL LAW and CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Numerousarticles have been published documenting the coming MARTIAL LAW SCENARIO and the role GUNDERSON STEEL WILL PLAY with their prisoner boxcars and shackles they have produced under SECRET GOVERNMENT CONTRACT as confirmed by many insiders, workers, etc. BRENT GUNDERSON IS OFFERING $1,000 reward for PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE of their prisoner boxcars!!! PORTLAND LOCALS WHO WORK THERE may be able to WIN THE REWARD! Their photographs are needed! You can submit them to either ME, or to INDYMEDIA if they so require or accept!
-Pam Schuffert

READ HIS OFFER BELOW!!!\*******************************************************

From: Pamela The Overcomer for JC <  mytwaryor4jc@hotmail.com>
>To: <  hitech1@bluemarble.net>
>Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:09 PM
> > Forward this out all over the internet!!!! FREE $1,000 from GUNDERSON
> > BOXCARS THEMSELVES for anyone who has pics of their boxcars with
> > Check this out LARRY!!!!-PAm
> >
> > >From: "Gunderson, Brent" <  bgunderson@gundersoninc.com>
> > >To: 'Pamela The Overcomer for JC' <  mytwaryor4jc@hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: RE: Boxcars with Shackles
> > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:19:07 -0800
> > >
> > >Well Pam,
> > >You seem to have all the answers, and with 107,000 boxcars to choose
> > >YOU, YOURSELF, with all the time on your hands should be able to get a
> > >picture of at least ONE boxcar with these shackles in them. I will pay
> > >$1,000 for a picture of a Gunderson built boxcar with our original
> > >"shackles" in them. In addition both you and I will go down to the
> > >Oregonian/Willamette Week and let them publish your picture. And of
> > >you may donate your $1,000 to any group or activist that you like.
> > >
> > >Will you take me up on my challenge?
> > >
> > >Brent
> > >

From: Pamela The Overcomer for JC <  mytwaryor4jc@hotmail.com>
>To: <  hitech1@bluemarble.net>
>Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:09 PM
> > Forward this out all over the internet!!!! FREE $1,000 from GUNDERSON
> > BOXCARS THEMSELVES for anyone who has pics of their boxcars with
> > Check this out LARRY!!!!-PAm
> >
> > >From: "Gunderson, Brent" <  bgunderson@gundersoninc.com>
> > >To: 'Pamela The Overcomer for JC' <  mytwaryor4jc@hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: RE: Boxcars with Shackles
> > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:19:07 -0800
> > >
> > >Well Pam,
> > >You seem to have all the answers, and with 107,000 boxcars to choose
> > >YOU, YOURSELF, with all the time on your hands should be able to get a
> > >picture of at least ONE boxcar with these shackles in them. I will pay
> > >$1,000 for a picture of a Gunderson built boxcar with our original
> > >"shackles" in them. In addition both you and I will go down to the
> > >Oregonian/Willamette Week and let them publish your picture. And of
> > >you may donate your $1,000 to any group or activist that you like.
> > >
> > >Will you take me up on my challenge?
> > >
> > >Brent
> > >

homepage:  http://www.americanholocaust.homestead.com

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IF YOU ARE A LOCAL...CASH IN!!! 10.Feb.2005 11:48

Pamela Schuffert  mytwaryor4jc@hotmail.com link

IF YOU ARE A LOCAL and have lived in Portland or worked at GUNDERSON, you may be able to help us produce the much desired photographic evidence that BRENT GUNDERSON OF GUNDERSON STEEL FABRICATION (BOXCARS, ETC. IN PORTLAND)so desires!!! Don't miss this opportunity! CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF OF THESE THREE TIER PRISONER BOXCARS MANUFACTURED IN GUNDERSON, and I will see to it that YOU GET THE FINANCIAL REWARD!!!-Pam Schuffert

not really 10.Feb.2005 16:31

Longshore worker

As someone who handles containers in a west cost port, all I can say is that there are so many ways in which to say that the above post is bogus.

Not again! 10.Feb.2005 17:29

Weld Red

This article gave me a good laugh. But it is sad to see such balderdash on Portland indymedia.
This nonsense appeared a while ago saying the same thing
I've worked at Gunderson Inc for many years, so let's get a few facts straight.
One we haven't built boxcars for a few years now in Portland. They are made down in Mexico; we only build container cars these days.
The 'shackles' are dimples which are with a small piece of metal going across which is used for tying goods down.
Think about it, why would you bother putting prisoners in shackles anyway. The Nazis in
Germany just herded people onto a box car at the point of a gun, and then shut the door. It's hard to cut through steel with your finger nails.
And they could just use the containers if they wanted to transport prisoners, like they have used in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And who the hell is Brent Gunderson? Gunderson has been owned by Greenbrier since around 1985. There is no 'Brent' or any other Gunderson on the board at Greenbrier.
And 'three tier' boxcars? What on earth is this person going on about?
I can only imagine this person is talking about the automax which transports cars.
The funniest thing is a 'guillotine.' What kind of a guillotine are we talking about? And just what are they going to use this for? If they are going to execute people why go to all this bother?
20,000 Chinese boxcars/containers? Very probable they are stacked up because when goods are imported in them, it is cheaper to scrap the containers than send them back empty.
AH, that's it! We are all going to be shipped off to China in these containers. Well at least George Bush doesn't live there.
Come on folks lets get serious about things, enough of these stupid posts.
We have a battle to win. The one at Gunderson isn't shackled boxcars, but wages, jobs, pensions, vacation, etc.

and besides that 11.Feb.2005 06:36

U. Sam

These are "christians". Let me guess, as long as those death cars don't have christians in them, only gays and atheists...then it's ok.

Hit the bricks.



Here Pam.....

Pam I can rebut this guy Brent Gunderson's "story" like Sherlock Holmes,
but I don't have time. That thing below is "PR weasel-worded", as we say
in the Pentagon.


Pam, nobody ever said GUNDERSON had produced ALL the 102,800 box cars..ONLY SOME! And
that number of cars was in the FEMA contract that the FBI Field Office
Chief, Retired, that is an FBI Agent, Retired, found!!

The number of box cars is for Canada too.. and here's the proof below. [THE BOXCARS WERE PRODUCED BY GUNDERSON STEEL!!!]

Al Cuppett
US Army and Action Officer, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, Retired

P.S.I know more info than that too. I know a guy who called and talked
type boxcars. If he's still alive it'll be a miracle!

He also spent 900
bucks to chase down a flight of 39 choppers in a Cessna 310-B. And man
there's a real truth and story in that scenario!! That "flight" was
great for revealing what these UN creeps and globalists CEO's are up to.
They are using spoofer transponders on the choppers and they sent
another set of Apaches to try to roll the Cessna on final approach at
the home airport! They really have Command and Control of their forces.
That was in 1995!! Think about now!???

By the way, the Buffalo Slaughter House here was trying to heat their
frozen pipes with 30 heat lamps on 6 power strips in the attic, so says
the newspaper, and the fire marshal, and the place burned to the ground!

-----Original Message-----
From: Your Name [mailto: rayhope@americasoldout.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:24 PM
To: abcuppett

Subject: Stephen V

Better read this one.

<P>Greeting's Al Cuppett , I am wondering IF you can Help Me I am
trying to reach Stephen V , He had some information on Iron Mountain
Facility in Edmonton ,Canada on <A
href=" http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/">www.tackamarks.freeservers
.com</A> I got your email from Harold Green Jr. I am also investigating
Sign Codes in Canada , British Columbia .It would be of great help if
you know Stephen's email address .

I have been researching the United Nations and what they are doing in
Canada I followed are disaster response route signs and they led to
several new Prison Camps Barbed Wire facing in.

I have noticed rail road cars painted white with UN Symbol on the side
heading through Abbotsford under cover of darkness. I took the liberty
of following it one evening into the Fraser Canyon and they stopped long
enough for me to go and investigate closer.

I am a Christian, Al, Filled with the Holy Spirit... So as I prayed, GOD
already had the path clear for me and there was even a door open for me
to go aboard .I was shocked with what I saw , there were 2 levels with
seating along the walls , Brand New handcuffs on the walls and shackles
on the floor I wonder what these are for .

On another occasion very late at night a train came through it was at a
different time I took note because the train has a routine schedule stop
but this time it was different .I went up the road and there were
unmarked military cars on the road side and the train was stopped for
some time .I went to investigate being cautious though; A large tarp was

covering the second from the end car the wind was blowing pretty hard
which I believe is why they were stopped to ensure proper covering of
their cargo I was shocked with what I saw underneath It was a very
Large Russian Rocket with launching pad .

How I am so sure Al is because I am Ex Military Navy Weapons Experience
.Why is there so much UN Equipment Coming into Canada under cover of
darkness and new prison camps going up in remote area's . I am making
video and pictures with a Night Vision camera soon If you want to see
them let me know .The
Government is working Feverishly to disarm everyone and to usher in
cashless society .</P>
<P>Thanks For All Your Help Al</P>
<P>HIS Servant : Davis </P>
<P>Abbotsford , B.C. Canada</P><BR>

let's see some GOOD photos 11.Feb.2005 12:29


Otherwise it's hard to believe. More likely in agreement on the simple container/buss/boxcar method. Stinking Red herring? I DO have a multiple confirmation of a 20,000 min camp ready at Vandenberg AFB in Santa Barbara County, Cal. It's a huge base effectively able to close off Interstate Hwy 1.

Boxcars? phony. Camps? not phony. 11.Feb.2005 12:56


Yes Sheepdog, empty-looking, new federal prison camps are out there. Draw your own conclusions...

I should probably post an article with a photo I took... hehe

Umm... about asking for pictures 11.Feb.2005 15:06


These black helicopters cranks have been swiping photos of Auto-Max cars from railfan sites, putting them on their own Web sites and going "Eek Eek! The NWO's whtie boxcars!" for a few years now.

Odds are that that's all you're gonna get.

It would be more instructive to try a Google Groups search on some keywords from the text, which will turn up some of the history of this old rumor (it's believed to date back to 1995 and to be the work of a now-deceased UFO nutbar), or a Google Web search on the OP's author's name, which turns up more than enough material to give a good empirical feel for just how batshit insane she is.

It's odd that paranoid conspiracists spend so much time freaking out about their fantasies of concentration camps. If you examine the Nazi view of Jews, it's essentially a paranoid conspiracy theory, as were the Stalinist theories of "kulaks" and "wreckers" which sent so many people to the Gulag. It's the conspiracist worldview, not that of rationality and skepticism, which has a historical track record of promoting atrocity.

It's even more odd that so much of an ostensibly "progressive" Web site's bandwidth gets used in promoting the fantasies of people who think that the John Birch Society isn't paranoid enough.

fantasies of concentration camps. 11.Feb.2005 15:56


Rep. Henery Gonzalas didn't think they were fantasies nor did Oliver North who woked on Continunity of Government and the Federal Emergency Military Authority as FEMA was first called. Let the reader do their own digging.

I really hate thinking up titles- why ARE they required? 12.Feb.2005 09:35


It's easy to drop names, neglecting, of course, the question of whether the name involved ever found any evidence in support of the "107,000 boxcars with shackles" rumor. It's also easy to wave a popular boogeyman- Ollie North and FEMA- hey, it works for Dubya, with a different choice of boogeyman.

It's also easy to change the subject to the likely existence of contingency plans for repressive measures and away from the fact that someone is peddling an old tinfoil-hat rumor on Indymedia, and the question of whether that rumor is true or not.

What doesn't seem to be easy is to meet the burden of proof which falls upon a person making a positive claim. In the ten years or so that this rumor has been floating around the 'net, the PCTs have never come up with anything better in support than untestable assertions made on the Internet, photos of known rolling stock plagiarized from railroad-buff Web sites, supposed e-mails of extremely dubious authenticity and more claims from other people who make their living generating content for the right-wing paranoia market.

Another thing that's relatively easy is to get a numerical perspective on this claim. This rumor probably dates to around 1995. From 1995 through 2004, total US deliveries of freight cars of all types amounted to 505,861. Production rates varied from a high of 21,560 in 1Q 1999 to a low of 3855 in 1Q 2002; the mean works out to a bit over 10,000 cars per quarter or 50,586 per year (source: Railway Supply Institute).

So, if the entire American railcar manufacturing industry were to turn out to manufacture these "107,000 boxcars with shackles", doing nothing else and leaving the railroad industry with no source of new rolling stock, it would take up about 2 years average production.

Since the woo-woos have latched onto the Auto-Max as the "NWO prisoner boxcar", let's use it as an example. If we count each 2-unit car as 2 cars, the "107,000 boxcars with shackles" would require 1472.6 miles of track for storage, if they were lined up coupler-to-coupler. Using the dimensions of a typical heavy-duty boxcar, the numbers come out in the same ballpark.

So, the railroad industry is deprived of new rolling stock for up to two years and has to cough up almost 1500 miles of trackage to store the "107,000 boxcars with shackles", with all the attendant disruptions to their normal operations, and just takes it all in silence, save for a few emails to professional conspiracy-mongers. How astonishingly plausible.

Another check on the plausibility of this rumor is to consult the experience of people who were, on the basis of actually having done it on a large scale, experts in the subject of shipping prisoners by rail- Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

When the Germans were shipping millions to the death camps, or the Soviets internally deporting entire populations to the wastes of Russia (look up what happened to the Ingush around 1942), they didn't see any need to bother with purpose-built prisoner cars- they simply made use of what rolling stock they had on hand. Nor did they see any need for built-in guillotines; as it happens, a gun works just as well, creates less mess and, if you're going to have to employ armed guards to begin with, is already right at hand.

The whole 107,000 balls of wax give off a stink of absurdity which only the strongest positive evidence could possibly dissipate- evidence which has not been anywhere near forthcoming.

Is that enough digging to settle your woo?

Swooosh! 12.Feb.2005 18:52

Madame La Farge

Guillotine did you say Mon Dieu? Oui, I live for ze swooosh of ze blade! Where can I apply for a job on this train? I must get back to my knitting now..ciao

Original Shackles? 12.Feb.2005 20:51

Rocky Johnstone

I didn't notice that anyone pointed out how Gunderson qualified his bet with the following statement:

"$1,000 for a picture of a Gunderson built boxcar with our original shackles"

"Our original shackles..." Meaning what? That he is aware that Gunderson railcars may in fact be out there, but don't sport his "original" schackles? The fact that he even mentions "our original schackles" is somewhat disturbing, wouldn't you agree? Like a shackle by another brand just don't cut it. Like a Harley or something...

"Don't settle for anything less than the Gunderson Original Shackle"

What a great maketing slogan!

Bottom line for me is pretty much that of everybody else however. Someone needs to get rock solid evidence. I'm not even sure that pictures are sufficient any more. So you're just going to have to hijack one of these monsters and roll it into the valley fall all to see. Now that's gotta be worth 10 times the price Brent G has put up.

And what's with the guillotine? Is that like a deluxe accessory item?

Fearmongers 16.Feb.2005 10:44


Beware of the fearmongers, false prophets. God has everything under control and if something does happen its only our fault. God must judge sin eventually. The days of the Gentiles may soon be over. Kingdoms rise and Kingdoms fall. Preach the pure gospel of Jesus Christ in LOVE, not fear and hate.

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