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Is the Internet dying?

I think I've removed all my malware/spyware/adware from my computer?
What a nightmare! It cost a fortune! Just part of the scam...eh? But I will never trust my computer ever again. I will still use it as an information source but I certainly wouldn't transact any business on it...forget eBay So, my question is: Since most people don't have the time or inclination to constantly monitor and upgrade our computer isn't the Internet pretty much dead as a commercial medium?

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"Is the Internet dying?" 08.Feb.2005 02:11


no, it can be killed if all major hubs shut down their servers, but it isn't dying.

if you want a more hassle free internet experience you may want to get a nice mini mac and hook it up to your current keyboard and monitor. apple's computers are nowhere near as vulnurable when it comes to viruses online since their operating system works in a different way than microsoft's windows.

another way that has come to be a viable alternative for regular users is to use some version of linux as operating system. earlier linux has been too complicated for regular users but now there are many different versions who are nice and easy to use for anyone used to windows.

if I would advice, I would go for the mac mini. really nice hardware for the money and it comes bundled with applications(iLife) that are actually usable. you will want to upgrade the original amount of memory to at least 512 though to make it really speedy.


Dump Windows and the Internet will be more 'alive' 08.Feb.2005 02:13

flower skunk

Well, this site is alive and well and so are plenty of other (noncommercial) sites and thats all I care about. So the internet as a whole is not 'dead'.
If your sick of malware/adware/viruses, etc. that invade your Windows machine, why don't you switch to Linux or Mac? I've been running Linux exclusively for 5 years now and have never had a virus/malware/adware or anyone break into my machine. I don't understand why people insist on using software from one of the most predatory, capitalistic companies around who don't give a shit about their customers because their customers are too dumb to know that there are better options than dealing with all this crap from them. Just dump windows and then you can surf wherever you want to without fear.

oh my! 08.Feb.2005 02:49

is this an add?

mini macs cost like, a thousand dollars.
and they are so corporate, big buysiness, hip.
fuck you and your add,
goo p233 go linux.
fuck your add,
hipster scum mac does not = cool
BTW no the internet is not dead, you just have to be more creative. and a little more patient than the rest. dial up is cool, broad band is better but it is a.so more expensive and back in like 90 we were rockin 28.8kbs now dial up is 56 k huge improvment who needs 1gig connections? p.s. loving my broad band. but willing to make due.

Is this an article/commentary? 08.Feb.2005 04:46

U. Sam

If you did your research you would of seen that business on the internet has only increased since the dot.flop scare and hype. You would also know how to stop downloading smiley/google toolbars and thus save yourself grief. Dump Internet destroyer, get yourself opera or firefox, turn off animated graphics(if your on 56k), get a hardware firewall and if your paranoid, call the company you want to do business with.

No, the internet is not dying, look at broadband stats, look at countries coming online, look at VoIP coming down the pike, look at the increase of small biz online, look at usage stats...I'll assume this was a joke.

I agree. 08.Feb.2005 06:22

Red Panda

Yes, get Firefox, it's great.

"is this an add?" 08.Feb.2005 07:39


"mini macs cost like, a thousand dollars."

wow, how clueless can you get?

how is $499 "like, a thousand dollars"?

the mac mini was created to offer regular users a good platform which has tools bundled with it that let people be "creators" and not just "consumers".

something tells me that that is what people like you fear. that people are no longer going to quietly take it upp the a$$.

bundled with the mini mac comes iLife, a suite of vary capable tools for creative people.

especially noteworthy are iMovie HD which even lets you edit high-definition video, and GarageBand which lets you create your own music.

bring in your own photos through iPhoto and put everything together with iDVD to distribute your own hi-quality movie projects on dvd.

if publishing written information together with images is more your thing then there's also apple's new program suite called iWork:

you get two(2) applications in iWork, namely Pages and Keynote2

pages is like a small inDesign with some very clever ways of formatting text around photos/images. if you want you can start out with predefined templates to get a speciffic look and feel of your publication, then you can tweak it to make it stand out in the crowd.

and Keynote is what m$ powerpoint always wanted but never could be. a high quality application that helps you put together presentations that makes sure no one is bored to death ;)

and no, this is not an ad. just some information to let people know that there are options for people who have cool ideas and want safe and nice tools to express them.

and I'm not myself a mac user, yet. I'm waiting for the rumored G5 lapptops in june.
something tells me that being able to carry my tools with me will be important.

Study: More Net Equals Less TV 08.Feb.2005 11:52

On Topic

Since this "commentary" asked "is the internet dying"...I thought I'd share a link:

Study: More Net Equals Less TV

Hopefully the question raised has been answered, and if your looking for a mini-mac, it's a really good deal yo!


Iíve heard all this before. 08.Feb.2005 14:42

Janeís intelligence

Thanks, I have Firefox, seems like a bandage to me. I'm not going to buy a new computer, because there's nothing wrong with mine. You don't buy a new car because your tire is flat. Linux may be great??? But it cost money, you have to read a book (I'd rather read literature) what's compatible with what? - and so on.... Is really much safer? It doesn't eliminate the huge industry that spying and preying off personal information. I'm not paranoid, that's the way it is. You don't use what you don't trust. Enough people have got burned and are extremely fed up.....

re Jane's intelligence 08.Feb.2005 15:17


Linux is free. Maybe you are talking about corporate distros where you have to pay them for the CD if you want their tech support, like RedHat, but the code itself is as free as the air you breathe. You can find installation images for various linux distros available on the net for free which you can download and burn to CD, and then fdisk, partition, format, and install to your heart's content without paying a dime. Chances are you know someone personally who is versed enough to help you through an install if you run into any snags, and if not there are a number of online forums where you can get help if you just take the trouble to look around. The internet isn't dying, it's just that people who don't take the time to educate themselves about how their computer works and what is and isn't a good idea on the internet usually end up falling prey to unscrupulous companies and individuals just like people in real life who aren't careful get their bikes stolen, their houses robbed, and their pockets picked when they fail to use bike locks, door locks, and to keep their wallets in their front pockets.

Your posts show that you don't really have a very good idea of what you are talking about as far as the technical aspects of the internet and various operating systems/computers go. Maybe you would rather read literature but if you don't take the time to educate yourself about the tool you are trying to use then you are setting yourself up for failure.

Thatís nice. 08.Feb.2005 17:23

Janeís intelligence

That's a very American attitude but I'm Canadian, I don't even lock my doors. Like most people I see my computer as an appliance not as a lifestyle. First, I don't have a CD burner. Second, if I did, I would still have to read up and figure it out, kernel this and kernel that... sorry, I actually have a life. It's not just unscrupulous companies, it's a whole unscrupulous industry that's playing the general populace off as fools. It's not my failure, it applies to most Internet users.
I see a lot of paranoid talk (Big brother is watching you!) about how the government is concerned with your every move. But the fact that corporations (and whom ever) are compiling very detailed personal information on the vast majority of web user is taken as par for the course.... Again, another very American attitude. I find it very strange that on alternative media that's based on the Internet, I don't see more information or even dialogue on this huge problem that's millions are facing! Rather elitist view that the dumb masses get what they deserve, buyer (or users) beware.... One of the first things I learned, was when people offer you something (Especially Americans) for free, you need to be wary.

Books vs. Internet 08.Feb.2005 17:55

C of I

This conversation reminds me of the worries that many people (publishers?) had in the late 90's, or ever since day one of the Internet, that books themselves would become a thing of the past. But when you think about it, what is the advantage to being able to move text up and down with a mouse, rather than just manually turning a page (on a relatively inexpensive book)? Those fears were probably premature--books will be around forever. But...

Jane's Addiction 08.Feb.2005 20:28


If you really have a life, turn your computer off and live it.

The reason you "don't see more information or even dialogue on this huge problem" is that people like you reply "sorry, I actually have a life" whenever anyone offers.

Criticism is easy, isn't it. But you must stay on top of things and at least post separate comments if you intend to contradict yourself.

Run with the sheep, you will get fleeced. 08.Feb.2005 22:03

Free from Windblows

I was at my friends house last night, and I was reminding why I use open-source software. "infected with spyware?" the dialogue box said. I'd not seen that before, it was the first time that I'd used windblows in a long time. My friend said that it does that hundreds of times a day, he's run adaware, spybot search and destroy, and now Microsoft's new spyware removal tool.

I asked him, "if you had a car, that needed it's tires rotated every 24 hours, but for for less money, you could have a car that's more comfortable, reliable, efficient and only requires tire rotation every six months. Would you like this car?"

He said, "then why is Windblows so popular?"

I said, " because most people are sheep, and do exactly what they think everyone else is doing"

He said " it's not so bad, as long as I keep it updated"

I said, " you mean rotated" I quirped back, "you realize that the best selling car in the world is the ford escort, 'nuff said"

He said " 'nuff said"

I found him a distro of Yopper Linux, and he's on his way to digital freedom.

Why is Windows Popular? 09.Feb.2005 01:08

Universal Algorithmics

Aside from better marketing and competivive pricing strategies, Windows is popular for the same reason that English is a popular language - people want universality.

I can share my files, code, and problem solving procedures with other Windows users.

I like that.

If any other sytem came to dominate the market then *it* would become the logical target of malicious coders.

Now, if you are not technically minded and wish to avoid web parasites, go into the settings of your broswer--whatever it is--and disable all the bells and whistles. Easy Peasy.

re your problems 09.Feb.2005 11:20


I don't understand why you feel it necessary to put down people who are trying to give you advice. However, since I'm fairly thick-skinned, I'll make another attempt:

My understanding of your main point is that you want instant gratification in the form of a secure online experience free from corporate spyware, malicious viruses, spam, scams, and everything else that mars the face of the internet without having to expend any energy toward this end by means of educating yourself or installing a more secure operating system. The problem is that there are unscupulous people in the world, there always have been unscrupulous people in the world, and there always will be unscrupulous people in the world. There is no way to police every computer on the internet, and even if there were it would require that everyone on the internet be identifiable which would in turn do away with the anonymity that you rightfully value.

If you don't want to install linux, then don't. But if you want to stick with windows you simply will have to accept the fact that it is an insecure system that is additionally the target of many folks who tirelessly work to find new ways to exploit its weaknesses.

In response to "Universal Algorithmics":

"If any other sytem came to dominate the market then *it* would become the logical target of malicious coders."
This statement is misleading because it implies that windows is insecure only because it is the top dawg and therefore a target. While this is definitely a factor, it is not the predominant "feature" that makes windows insecure. The most damning aspect of the windows operating system (security-wise)is that programs run on windows are run as root and thus are pretty much allowed to do whatever they want, whereas most (all?) of the alternative OSes out there require a user to be logged in as superuser or root to run programs that can do potentially harmful things.

Back to "Janes Intelligence": "Universal Algorithmics" is right about one thing; if you practice safer browsing techniques then you can be better assured of having a safe online experience. Turn off cookies on your browser. This will keep companies from tracking you that way. Install Mozilla and use it to block pop-up windows. This will take care of the annoyance factor. Run a firewall, even if you have to download ZoneAlarm (free but crappy) at the very least. This will help keep out malicious attacks, although some might argue as to the level of effectiveness of ZoneAlarm. Lastly, DON'T INSTALL OR RUN PROGRAMS YOU GET FROM THE INTERNET. I am running a Windows PC. I haven't run a virus scan or adware scan in months, and I just did so to make my point. Guess what: no suspicious programs were found, just a few old cookies. Wanna know why? Because I don't download every flashy new toolbar or other stupid program I see an ad for. I download a few programs now and then from trusted sources and that's it.

So really all you have to do is get educated. There's a big difference between being part of the "dumb masses" and being willfully ignorant, and when you state your intention to remain the latter it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for you, especially when you take advice so poorly.

I hate Bill Gates 09.Feb.2005 11:39

yet I still use his OS

The primary reason "windows" is the object of so much mischief is--it is the dominant player in the market. If linux or mac held that title it would become the preferred object of this mischief.

BTW--getting rid of most software protection and installing some hardware firewalls made the biggest differnce overall.

Well I disagree 09.Feb.2005 12:58


You are entitled to your opinion, but I maintain that the biggest reason windows is the object of so much "mischief" is that it is easy to screw up as opposed to other more secure and stable OSes.

This is huge nightmarish problem. 10.Feb.2005 12:13

Janeís intelligence

That effects just about everyone, in one way or another. I spent over a month fighting it. It messed up just about every aspect of my computer and I'm still not sure it's solved. So you can see why I'm angry. I don't see why you are taking my pointing out that the protest movement isn't confronting or educating people about this immense problem, personally. Maybe I don't want to know what your day job is? (Joke)
According to scambusters it's the number one problem out there.
1. Bigger identity theft problems
"For example, one growing problem is keystroke loggers, also called keyloggers. A keystroke logger is a hardware device or software program that monitors each keystroke a user types on the keyboard. This information can then easily be transmitted to a scammer, who then has access to user names, passwords, and other confidential information."

"Keyloggers are installed on personal computers via hardware or software. Software keyloggers are installed via viruses, worms, trojans, and spyware. Hardware keyloggers can be installed in ATM machines, on gas pumps, etc. collecting credit card and bank info, as well as passwords and PIN numbers."

"Since recent studies have shown that even the best spyware blockers and cleaners are not very effective in eliminating a good deal of spyware, we predict that more and more clever and difficult-to-find-and-remove spyware will be created in 2005."
So would anyone trust their computer? Isn't this just a little more terrifying than men in black helicopters? The Internet will die (or seriously curtailed) if this keeps up. Get out there and start talking about it!

Protesting is unnecessary when solutions are on hand 10.Feb.2005 13:14


Reading this thread, people have clearly stated that there *are* solutions available. Holding a protest seems silly (and a waste of time) when for much less time invested you can solve the problem permanently by switching off of Windows.

If your time is extremely precious and you simply want something that "just works", then buy a Mac. This is the "throw money at it" solution.

If saving money is more important than saving time, or if you want to avoid feeding the corporations, or if you want to have total control over your computer, then go with Linux.

Either solution will require some time and small sacrifices; you will have to invest some time into learning, making changes, and probably experience some incompatibilities here and there. That's sort of the price for escaping the spam and other junk clogging the internet.

However, you'll probably find a lot of other little benefits beyond just preventing spam. After all, they were created for reasons completely other than just fighting spam/adware/etc.; it just happens that this is a feature for them because Microsoft is _so bad_.

In a way, there *was* a protest movement by people who could foresee all these problems with Microsoft, years ago. I recall geeky techie holding demonstrations at Microsoft's campus, writing complaints, and trying to wake people up that the way Windows and Internet Explorer were implemented left open LOTS of security issues that might (and have) come to bite us later.

These people were ignored, as protesters often are unfortunately. However, they didn't stop there, but went ahead and made their *own* system up from scratch (Linux and other Open Source apps). And they decided that, hey, everyone should have the _right_ to have all that for _free_. And that everyone got the right to have a copy of the source code too if they wanted. They were extremely idealistic. No one would have predicted they'd have a chance in hell.

Yet here we are today, and software made with these new idealistic philosophies are making big inroads against corporate software. Folks are noticing that hey, these open source apps (including Firefox, Linux, Apache, etc.) don't have all those same security problems. Companies are even starting to migrate over to it, instead of Microsoft (they have the same problems all the rest of us do).

So if you're still on Windows and find things too painful, don't ask why people aren't protesting now - they picked up and left. Instead, ask yourself if you want to waste YOUR time working for Microsoft by cleaning up their mistakes every time you upgrade, or if you want to invest your time and money into more permanent solutions.

If you expect computers should be easy and just be like appliances, fancy and pretty, there is a solution for this - Mac.

If you expect that software should be free and give you power over the computer rather than take it, be powerful and open for tinkering, there is a solution for this too - Linux.

But if you're ok with the computer being hard and ugly, leaving you powerless and out of control, well stick with Windows. At least you'll be in good company (well, at least for maybe another year or two). ;-)

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