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On 1/13/05, Spartacus wrote the following in response to an assertion that Condi Rice should be the only person singled out for WMD lies that led to the war in Iraq:
Subject: Let me get this straight, only Rice is accountable now???

What about the President? What about Rumsfeld? What about Cheney? What about everyone in the military who aligned against their own Chief of Staff (Eric Shinseki) when he wanted to go about this thing in a different more commonsensical way? But most importantly, what about the millions of Americans, Britons, Frenchmen, and Australians who were against this thing but we all failed at coming together effectively to stop the senseless slaughter of thousands of American and coalition soldiers?

We have nothing to complain about because we allowed it to happen. The only people who really had a say about sending their citizens to fight in Iraq and did something about it were the Spanish and Ukrainian populations. Today it seems that only the Spanish people and the Ukrainian people have the guts and the balls to do what ever is necessary to make sure the majority of the citizens in their respective nations truly remain sovereign and out of the reach of would be oppressive puppet regimes like Putin wanted to put in place in the Ukraine, and the one we currently have in place in the United States.

We are getting what we deserve for not meeting the challenge, myself included. It's not just Rice, its all of us.


1/13/05 Bear's Response :

Allowed it to happen? Which of your personal armies or your courts were you planning to use to stop it? When you say we, please do not include me because I didn't vote for him. I'm not complaining. What he did was technically gray area.


1/20/2005 Spartacus Responds:

Did Clifford Baxter have a personal army? How about UK weapons expert David Kelly? Where was his army when he died mysteriously? But more importantly, why did Clifford Baxter and David Kelly do what they did without a personal army, or without judges and prosecutors in their pockets? The way I see it, this should not be a question about what kind of dubious resources are necessary to bring about a desired outcome, this is about courage; in particular, American courage, or the lack there of.

Our past is full of extraordinary examples of courage such as the citizens of Coffeyville, Kansas who rose up against the Dalton Gang; or, Ethan Allen's Green Mountain Boys and the Minutemen who were primarily comprised of colonists who also did not have personal armies of their own but became armies against the threat of King George's Red Coats. All of these people are real life examples of what can be, and should be done (regardless of the outcome) in the face of seemingly insurmountable adversity, but dead Americans from the past cannot fight our battles in 2005. It's very telling of exactly where our collective will really is when the efforts of Clifford Baxter become the exception of a present day American call for justice rather than status quo. Additionally, I'm afraid the results of David Kelly's attempts in the UK have further fueled our apathy and cowardice here in the States.

Let's face it Bear, our will has been, and is being tested like never before. America as a whole lacks courage right now, and ENRON, the oil industry, the private insurance lobby, and the defense industry know it, and they are taking full advantage of the situation to the tune of trillions of dollars and thousands of civilian and military lives lost. We are fat and we lack the will and courage exhibited by those examples that I listed in the paragraph above, and until that changes Bear we are getting what we deserve, and that is the core issue we are all faced with. So yes, I am singling you out as well as myself, and every other member of the real American majority; not the majority that Gallup, Zogby, Time, Newsweek, CNN, WSJ get their fixed/false poll samples from; but rather those of us who allege that we are truly against what is happening in our country right now while at the same time failing to effectively do something about it.

David Kelly and Clifford Baxter are not the only present day examples of what kind of courage it truly takes to keep private sector and government corruption in check. For instance, the Spanish population was rocked by train explosions that killed 200 Spaniards just days before their Presidential election last year, and yet they still voted out an Iraq War supporting Aznar in favor of Zapatero who immediately pulled Spanish troops out of Iraq. Another example is the courage Ukrainian President elect, Yushchenko, exhibited when he continued to run for office and demand a pullout of Ukrainian troops from Iraq even after being poisoned by forces friendly to Russian President Putin back in September/04. Yushchenko's courage and insistence regarding the removal of Ukrainian forces out of Iraq forced the current Russian/Putin controlled Ukrainian President, Leonid D. Kuchma's withdrawal of troops from Iraq. And as you will see in the article below, the Ukrainian people along with forces in their military and intelligence community followed Yushchenko's lead, by placing the will of the Ukrainian majority first thus forcing the recent turn of events in that once Soviet/Russian controlled, but now brave and sovereign country.

To me the bottom line is very simple; if every American who agreed with David Kelly and Clifford Baxter were just as willing to give what they gave at the same time those two were fighting for the truth, both of them would still be alive today. Additionally, Bush would not have been inaugurated today, trillions of dollars would still be in Washington and in the retirement accounts of millions of Americans, and there would be ZERO dead in Iraq. I truly believe that Clifford Baxter and David Kelly both thought that if they should die for speaking out against massive theft and an unlawful Iraq War respectively, that their deaths would not be in vain, and so far that seems to be the case.


"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

Dwight D. Eisenhower

January 17, 2005
How Top Spies in Ukraine Changed the Nation's Path
By C. J. CHIVERS (New York Times)


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