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Nazi Skinheads in Portland

Nazi skinheads plan to vandalize the city with fliers dedicated to their cause in the "Flier Outreach Contest" at Gabriel Park, SW 45 & Vermont, Portland Oregon, Jan 8, 2005 at 1:00PM. Please join us to stop the hate.
A bunch of musical bands and some other random people such as myself and a group of my friends will be there to protest their actions, rip off their fliers, and hand out anarchist pamphlets in response to this horrible event. Their website can be found at www.nukeisrael.com. I've got a box of 200 "Fighting for Our Lives" pamphlets from CrimethInc that I can share with anyone without materials. You can also pick up a free box from them off their website at www.crimethinc.com (but I suggest a donation of course).
Their website states:
"distribute 10,000 flyers in Portland.
Groups of three will work prearranged areas.
The winners will each receive 1000 white power tunes,
two racist DVD's and a 17" Swastika.

Shinhead Party later for GhostSkin attendees. "

Please join us in protest to stop the promotion of hate in our city.

homepage: homepage: http://www.deadmusic.net
phone: phone: 503 269 4228


Thanks for the heads-up 23.Dec.2004 06:32

CitizenGregg

I'll be there for support.

terrorist 23.Dec.2004 10:29

peace

Resist

Good luck 23.Dec.2004 10:32

Kevin

Please make sure and post a follow-up so we can see how it went. I'm stuck working the entire day so I won't be able to make it to support.

ripping off their flyers 23.Dec.2004 13:22

sean4489

I am glad to see that the people of Portland are organizing to oppose the ideas espoused by these facists. However, I don't agree with the idea of vandelizing their efforts to promote their ideals. Eventhough I find their ideas without value and completely disgusting I do respect their right to have and promote their values. Don't rip down their flyers, that's what an oppressive regime does when it is afraid of free speech. Let the Nazis post their flyers for everyone to see. Disagree with what they say, post your own flyers, but don't repress anothers ideas just becaue you don't agree with them, that is what Nazis do.


Peace

sanctioned? 23.Dec.2004 13:42

king friday

I don't understand, is this actually a city sanctioned event they're holding?
If so I think the alien living in katz's head may have escaped.

Disagreement 23.Dec.2004 13:44

Skullhunter

Nobody has the right to advocate someone's violent death for no better reason than the color of their skin or their sexuality. Nazi scum laugh at the idea that the same people they'd happily put a bullet in would defend them to the end. This isn't a matter of being better people than them, it's a matter of self-defense and survival. They are 100% committed to using the rights you defend for them to curtail yours. They are dedicated to expelling or exterminating anyone that doesn't fit their view of humanity, which is far beyond the boundaries of free expression.

There is a difference 23.Dec.2004 14:32

sean4489

If the Nazis in Portland are passing out flyers that encourage people to hate each other that is their right. Just because you find it wrong or immoral doesn't grant you the right to prevent them from saying what they want to say. I find it interesting that you think the Nazis are laughing in the faces of those people who support the right to free speech yet not laughing in yours as you promote the exact same kind of intolerance they do. By stifiling free speech you become an oppressor. Those who choose to vandelize the free speech attempts of those they disagree with are censoring those persons. The United States is a country that was founded on the right to speak your mind. No one, not even the Nazis, should be afraid to say what they want to say. In this country free speech is a right afforded to all of us, even unpopular people. Respect free speech.


Peace

it is not their right 23.Dec.2004 15:39

not a lawyer

They can advocate that whites are better than blacks, jews, hispanics, etc. but they cannot legally advocate violence, injury, or causes a threat to the peace of the community. They have already admitted to violating the law and forgoing their first amendment rights:

"White power flyers can do much to injure the mental health of these subhuman invaders."

Free speech only covers noninjurious speech. If you advocate injuring someone you have no legal protection. So don't get so caught up in abstract ideas that were dismissed centuries ago. The US, as with all countries, has long held that free speech has exceptions though those exceptions must be limited and well-defined.

Though, this is not to say a community cannot be trusted to define for themselves what speech will be tolerated within their community.

And for those of us who value liberty above all else, I would not restrict the liberty of those wanting to pass out hate speech materials (by say throwing them in jail) but nor would I restrict the liberty of the community in their efforts to stop such activities. So, though we can see that such speech is not protected that does not mean we need to resort to legal means. I think the community will work this out quite well for itself.

Fight hatred with peace and unity 23.Dec.2004 18:28

Amanda Fritz

Many local organizations urge you not to go to Gabriel Park to confront the skinheads. We ask you instead to attend the Unity Rally on the same day, 1 p.m. at the Multnomah Center, 7688 SW Capitol Highway. Download fliers and get more information at www.swni.org, the web site of SW Neighborhoods, Inc. (one of the many co-sponsors).

And note, the skinhead group is not based in Portland - these are people coming in from the suburbs to try to incite unrest. Don't let them succeed! We heard they're offering a prize to the subgroup that generates the most altercations/police calls/reaction. Come to the Unity Rally instead of creating more attention in Gabriel Park.

Unity rally? 23.Dec.2004 20:43

what's that going to do?

A rally is not going to intimidate these Nazi scum. It's not going to make them go away. Don't waste your time. Do something that might actually discourage them from showing their fucking ugly faces around here ever again.

Why not an old fashion childish egging session 23.Dec.2004 22:24

TheDirtRoadWarrior

I'm down to buy a carton of eggs. Yeah, I know it's immature, but fuck it, I have not egged anybody in so, so, long. I think it would be hilarious to six back with a case of brew rewinding video tapes of an old fashion egg fight.

Skin Heads Get Skinned Heads 23.Dec.2004 22:25

twospiritwarrior

Yeah.....we are also infested with the little boogers on the north side
of the 49th.....as well as with various other Aryan whatevers.

Eggs probably a bad idea 23.Dec.2004 22:41

.

Although I agree that a unity rally is going to accomplish nothing, egging these guys is probably not the best plan. If you're going to confront them, do a good job of it. You throw an egg, they might shoot you. These guys are not kidding around. Maybe if you did a drive-by egging, you could get away with it. But it's probably better to either intimidate them, or physically beat them out. I know a bunch of pacifists are going to jump down my throat about this, but skinheads are not known for giving a rat's ass if peaceful protesters dislike them.

Think it through 23.Dec.2004 23:12

Amanda

OK, under your scenario, big fight at Gabriel Park, local neighbors frightened and intimidated, lots of publicity for the skinheads. You enjoy the fight while feeding into the skinheads' desire for one.

Alternative: thousands turn up for the Unity Rally, media highlights peaceful solidarity with and love for our multicultural neighborhoods and neighbors. Small group of skinheads run around the park by themselves looking like silly children, and get hardly any press.

Your call.

Amanda is right 24.Dec.2004 00:19

George Bernard Shaw

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

And one more thought 24.Dec.2004 00:21

Amanda

More than a dozen local organizations ask you to attend the Unity Rally instead of confronting the skinheads. These groups include the American Jewish Committee, Basic Rights Oregon, the American Association of University Women, and the Coalition Against Hate Crimes,as well as the leaders of the 16 neighborhoods in SW Portland. If you chose to fight instead of demonstrating peacefully, you will be saying, "I don't care what Jewish/gay/women/local community leaders are asking me to do. I want to do what the skinheads want - fight".

Which action is more supportive and respectful of the targeted groups? Don't minority community leaders deserve support in the manner they request, rather than in the form you want to give?

Ignorance is bliss 24.Dec.2004 01:52

electricoolaid39

I find it hard to believe that people can hate others on the basis of race and gender.In a way I feel sorry for skin heads and nazis.Life is such a beautiful thing.It is a shame that we cant all get along and respect one another and every living thing on the planet.It is my hope that man will become enlightend soon.Greed and hatred are making the planet a miserable place for all living entities.Skin heads you are misdirected.Please wake up and understand that your form of hatred is not only wrong,but also stupid.It has no basis in science or fact and is pure ignorance.One race is no more superior over the other than man is over plants or animals.We are all alive and life is precious. We all depend on one another.

get ready 24.Dec.2004 04:32

doctor_jones

amanda is the sexyiest one here. but she's only...96% right.

hannah senesh DIED. you know who she was right?

she was a resistor in the war against hitler.

now you know the nazis WON that war, right?

i can feel teh fury and the hatred. what amanda and i know is that if you hate the nazis who are gonna be there they've won before you get ouut of bd that morning cause 0-- this is me, incidentally, kicking their asses -- every person who feels that their hatred is righteous is on their team --- part of their est of nihilist tools -- even if they are there to stand against them.

they are The establishment -- they are Bush's foot soldiers. when you go there to show you hate nazis, all you arreally doing is being part of a hate group.

they live to fool you, as if they worshipped Norse Loki. I DON'T LIKE THEM EITHER butthe advantage anyone has against them -- i am odl school ARA -- the advantage you have is they want people stupefied with hatred.

hatred makes you stupid. and hey -- everyone feels hatred. sometimes. it is when you COMMIT to actions based on the hatred -- instead of taking a chill pill and saying, no, i won't be like them" -- that they get you. and that turns people into monsters who do shit that they don't rememeber later. take some time to think about how eak they are. nais are intellectually weaker. they look to rattle you and if you give in to hate -- if you give in to the hatred they have you.

yo! 24.Dec.2004 04:41

doctor_jones

Unity rally? 23.Dec.2004 20:43
what's that going to do? link

A rally is not going to intimidate these Nazi scum. It's not going to make them go away. Don't waste your time. Do something that might actually discourage them from showing their fucking ugly faces around here ever again.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is the person who is backwards.

drive them out by force they are scum 24.Dec.2004 06:57

anonymous

i tend to agree with the egg thrower. do it. it's nonviolent, akin to throwing a pie but humiliating enough to make them think twice that they dont own the parks or the streets, and they will if they are not driven out. they are fascists so keep them away. don't goddamn talk it to death, peaceniks! the revolution needs to be in the streets. i would come but i'm in california but have had experiences of this sort, riots in fact, against cop sanctioned kkk rallies. if you love them, they won't go away. don't leave their fliers up, tear 'em down. they're haters and probably violent, consider it self defense for your community, what if they want to kill gays or blacks in your neighborhood? self defense.

that's an uzi in the neo-nazi's hand 24.Dec.2004 07:44

maks

which is a gun made in where? Israel!

how the world finds ways to make me laugh...

is this real? 24.Dec.2004 13:16

no skinz

I am the only one who thinks it's odd that their own info would say "two racist DVD's"? I thought these folks had euphemisms for racism, etc, that they prefer to call themselves. But yes, it's real. Their website is truly fucked up. And they appear to be preparing for WWIII. If the US gov't is ever overthrown, these folks will probably try to claim the throne. Damn I wish their mommas would have loved them a bit more.

Why do you not like skinheads? 24.Dec.2004 13:28

Sean4489

This post is to address all of the above comments that are advocating various attacks on the Nazi's at their rally.

Why do want to throw eggs, rip down their flyers, get in their faces and cause a fight? One of the above posts states that throwing eggs is a nonviolent means of protest? Are you an idiot. Explain to the judge why throwing an egg at someone is not violent and I guarantee you will spend some time in jail. If you hit somebody wiht anything you are commiting an act of violence.

Next, this goes to the post about the Nazi's not having a right promote their ideals, I believe the post described my definition of free speech as outdated and "centuries old." While it may be true that the idea of free speech has suffered in recent years I don't think the Supreme Court has changed the standard from Brandenburg v. Ohio. It is not illegal to advocate lawless action unless the likelihood for success is present. That means that the Nazi's speech is protected until it presents a clear and present danger to those in earshot of the speech. Your claim that "injurious speech is not protected" is bogus. In fact the United States Supreme Court has held that arresting a speaker for breach of the peace merely because of a hostile audience is unconstitutional. Cox v.Louisiana, 379 U.S. 536,551 (1965).

Again, the Nazis have a 1st amendment right to say what they want to say. If you feel that their speech will make you violent, then maybe you, my good sir, are the one that should be arrested. Further, I am disapointed to see so many posts on this site advocating violence to combat speech? Did you all vote for Bush?

throwing stuff 24.Dec.2004 13:46

chops

if you kick them out of the streets then they wont be in the streets
in california i was attacked by nazi skins twice in the middle of the day with lots of other people around doing their shopping or whatever
nobody did nothing
if every time these guys showed up they got their ass kicked
i think they would stop showing up
if every one lets them do whatever they want then they will
i agree with most the ideas on this thread
but feel like i dont want these guys getting the feeling that they can do whatever they want
and i dont feel like a unity party is gonna send a message to people that these bullys will not be allowed to pray on us
even though i like the idea

Go for it Chops 24.Dec.2004 14:31

Sean4489

O.K. Chops,you go down to the park and kick some Nazi ass. Have one of your buddies video-tape the entire event and then send a copy to "When Morons Attack." Chops, why do you advocate using violence against the Nazi's? Aren't you mad at them because they used violence against you? Won't you be just as bad as them if you go down to the park and get your(I mean kick their)ass?

Peace

ok, heres a great idea 24.Dec.2004 16:13

TheDirtRoadWarrior

Since many of you are such pussies, and feel throwing eggs is a act of violence, hahaha, then I have another, very peaceful means of action that will do even better. What we need are some big screen tv's, some gay porn, some more porn with black guys romping white chicks, and another video showing Jews praying at "The Wall". I think that will make the Nazi's just thrilled, and hey I didn't even have to kick one of them in the nutz to piss them off.

yeah! 24.Dec.2004 17:31

no skinz

Of course, then they'd smash your TV set. Let's face it, violence sucks, but the meek aren't going to inherit the world. There are those with whom reason and compassion won't work, and they will try to lord over the rest of the world. They will rape and kill the women, torture and kill the men, and enslave anybody who will let himself be enslaved. There's fear-mongering and there's reality. There's a time for violence and a time for peace. These skinheads are not at a point where they can be the "they" I'm talking about in this posting, but it's up to you to recognize what's what, and to decide how best to combat hatred. To the meek: yeah, love away, but remember it's the rest of us who, throughout history, who have saved you from the Hitlers. Successful peace movements, such as the civil rights movement, probably wouldn't have amounted to a hill of beans if the people in power didn't see the potential in many of us to get pissed off enough to show a violent side like the Black Panthers displayed.

Nazi idiots aren't threat 24.Dec.2004 18:07

neihborhood anarchist

Just remember, this Nazi group is extremely marginal. Of course, they want a confrontation- which is just why we shouldn't give them one. I can agree with violent self-defense, but as it is Nazi's aren't worth fighting. There will be, like, 3 fascists in Gabriel, and they will have a police escort (probably to protect them from the neihborhood just as much to protect the neihborhood from them.) Just remeber, anti-social morons are not the real threat- our problems are institutional. Are these Nazi's running the death machine known as the United States? No.
I must admit, though, it does seem like street battles with Nazis would be loads of fun (until someone's head is bashed in.)

Why do you defend skinheads? 24.Dec.2004 18:35

Skullhunter

<It is not illegal to advocate lawless action unless the likelihood for success is present. That means that the Nazi's speech is protected until it presents a clear and present danger to those in earshot of the speech. Your claim that "injurious speech is not protected" is bogus. In fact the United States Supreme Court has held that arresting a speaker for breach of the peace merely because of a hostile audience is unconstitutional. Cox v.Louisiana, 379 U.S. 536,551 (1965).>

The problem with this idea is that after a typical bullshit chest-thumping session, Nazis don't just immediately spread out and begin a campaign of random violence. They attract people of similar thought, pump them full of "white man as a victim" rhetoric, build an organized base of people committed to the ideas of white superiority and THEN begin planning for violence, usually lone-wolf style tactics that can't be traced back to the group as a whole unless the cops snag someone willing to give the rest of them up and willing to risk being hunted down by them as well. It's not like this is some kind of big secret here. Their ultimate goal is a world free of those they determine to be undesireables and inferiors and they have no plans to accomplish this by politely asking us to leave. Their primary goal is the cessation of our existance, and you're not going to score any points with them by respecting their "right" to plan and promote that cessation as long as they don't start beating, lynching and shooting people immediately after they have their little party. Quote the law all you want, but I defy you to tell me that they have anything else in mind besides doing away with all of us, including you. Your high-and-mighty pontifications about how everyone deserves the freedom to speak would make a pretty shitty epitaph for anyone who were to lose their lives later on because Nazis were allowed to meet, organize and plan with impunity.

<If you feel that their speech will make you violent, then maybe you, my good sir, are the one that should be arrested. Further, I am disapointed to see so many posts on this site advocating violence to combat speech?>

No one's trying to combat speech, they're trying to combat a proven violent group attempting to organize and entrench themselves in this community. I don't agree with people throwing eggs either, but only to the extent that I think it would be much more effective if there was a large non-violent turnout to show them exactly how outnumbered they are and how difficult it will be for them to wage their idiotic war of racial purity here. I think holding their little meeting under the watchful eyes of a large, silent group of locals would be both disheartening and unnerving for their followers, without whom the organizers are powerless. They rely on others to do their dirty work so they can't be connected to any acts of violence, without dedicated footsoldiers they've got nothing. People are frustrated because they don't want these shitbags in their neighborhoods plotting violence against friends, neighbors and themselves, and I don't blame them.

<Did you all vote for Bush?>

Nice ad hominem attack. Perhaps we should be questioning your motives as well.

regarding past comments.. 24.Dec.2004 22:03

nate nate@deadmusic.net

I agree with free speech, but seriously, step back and listen to what you are saying. I'm not going to just sit back and let a bunch of skinheads promote violence and hate in our city based on the color of a person's skin or some other origins that they cannot control. You're right about the similarities in hate between Nazis and us - I, as an anarchist, hate the state and legislature, but only for WHAT THEY DO TO US and WHAT THEY PROMOTE. These Nazi kids want to murder EVERY black, gay, jew, whatever, based on the fact that just a FEW of them are criminals. Most anarchists argue that this isn't even their fault at all, but it is the fault of the violent society they have grown up in and also the violent/drug filled child-rearing practices or the lack of any parenting at all. Crime CAN be stopped, and it isn't EVERY SINGLE jew's fault. It isn't EVERY SINGLE african american's fault. It's wrong for them to say that other people are 'impure' AND act upon it.

I do respect their right to THINK and say that others are 'impure'. I do not however respect their choice to act upon it and intimidate, bully, and attack any other person, especially based on factors the individual can NOT control.

SO, if anyone still would like to protest with me, I've decided to meet a little bit before the event at a different place nearby instead, so we can distinguish who is a Nazi and who isn't, and also because I've heard that sometimes they say they will be at one place but really intend to show up at another in order to distract/divert protesters such as myself. I would really appreciate the support anyone could give by showing up, so thank you in advance. I'm also going to design a flier when we decide where to meet up, so if anybody would like to print out or hand out fliers, you can e-mail me. Thanks again for any support.


Why Does Every Single One of you act like these Skinheads are not people? 24.Dec.2004 22:49

Person of Color who shared a Cell with a nazi for 2 years.

Yeah these kids are backwards and fucked up, use simplistic prejudice to explain away their oppresion, beat the fuck out of brothers and spread their propaganda all over town, but they've all got moms and dads, have changed heaps since they were kids, and are gonna change more still before they die. Do you think that beatin the fuck out of them's gonna change their mind? Do you think attending some other rally's gonna? What do you think will? No, I don't know that I've got the best answer to this question, but I think it's always important to think about your goal before you take action.

Do you want to take out your rage about these white supremacists or about white supremacy? The only thing that I have that's good to say about these folks is they've got enough sense to realize they're white supremacists, most, (not all,) of the rest of the folks in this country don't even stop to think about the fact that every day they support white supremacist, sexist, apitalist imperialism. Who is more racist, these skinheads or the court system? Some misguided white kids from the suburbs, or the state department? If what you need to do for you is attack something, think about what it is that needs to be attacked.

Do you want to show support for local minority groups? Rally's not a bad idea to start, maybe you can ntwork with folks, maybe you can start learning about other ways they need help. A rally is good, but only if it's concieved as the beginning of action, not as the endpoint. Make sure you're doing what's really needed in the eyes of those you are trying to help. Make sure you're really doing it for "them" and not just for "you". Yeah it feels good to help others and we should be open to that, but that shouldn't be the only reason we help. Yeah, allthis applies to us "minorities" too.

Do you want to changfe their minds? Because someone has fallen intothe bullshit pattern of overt racist action doesdn;t mean they won't (can't) change. When someone has changed your mind, how has it usually happened? I know I've had my ass kicked for my beliefs and it didn't change my attitude much.

Shit, all this time complaining and I never got to the most important part. I lived in a cell for 2 years with some hick wannabe aryan kid. He grew up in a family full of nazis. He had said probably less than 100 word\s to people of color in his entire life before getting locked up.. I hated him when he moved in and I miss him now that Ive been out. All I can say is that I learned that this shit in real life is NEVER as simple and dualistic as people sometimes say. I'm still amazed at how many times I hear "radicals" explain away the people murdered in the World Trade Center and the oppression of women in muslim countries into the abyss of the context of globalization and conquest on the muslim world, while in the next sentence they'll call people whom they grew up near "Nazi scum, shitbags, fucking ugly." No, I'm not defending Nazi's, but know that this is never as simple as it seems. I met a brown-skinned man in Kansas City who belongs to a white supremacist organization, he told me he hated niggers. I know an "anti-racist" who regularly buys sweatshop goods, made by brown-skinned people, pays taxes to support a white supremacist government, and buys oil from companies that are responsible for killing and oppressing brown-skinned people all over the world, and tells me that he's not a racist because he goes to a couple of rallies every year.

I'm not telling anyone to not throw eggs or start fight s or bring tv's or go to other rallies or any of that, just whatever you do, think it through, and then do it again, and then make sure that youre placing yourself and the rest of the world in some kinfd of conrtext that makes sense.


LUCK LOVE HOPE

How about local ZionNazis? 25.Dec.2004 00:22

Curious

I'm all for seeking out and destroying local Nazis, but shouldn't we be even-handed and go after the local ZionNazis too?

can i please have some examples 25.Dec.2004 07:06

oasdifaos

of how pacifism has EVER stopped nazis?

wasnt pacifism the reason jews were so easily exterminated?

seriously, id like to be proven wrong here, id like to be shown an example of pacifism stopping nazis.

Diversity of tactics? 25.Dec.2004 15:41

Heck

Unity rally? Good. Right on. More power to you. Do not expect that I should step in line behind your leadership should I personally disagree with the effectivness of your response. I know people of color that are not in your circle, that want to kick these facists out of our town. PLEASE to not promote a flat two dimensional perspective of who people of color are. People have political perspectives that are broader than what you think a person of color, woman, gay, or jewish person "should be."

Qoutes this like outright say that people affected by neo nazis must stand behind your leadership regardless of what they think is an effective response to these people.
-"More than a dozen local organizations ask you to attend the Unity Rally instead of confronting the skinheads. These groups include the American Jewish Committee, Basic Rights Oregon, the American Association of University Women, and the Coalition Against Hate Crimes,as well as the leaders of the 16 neighborhoods in SW Portland. If you chose to fight instead of demonstrating peacefully, you will be saying, "I don't care what Jewish/gay/women/local community leaders are asking me to do. I want to do what the skinheads want - fight".

I applaud you for finding others that believe as you believe, and doing what you think is right, all I ask is that you do not say that you speak for all women, jews, and people of color. I have noticed that these particular nazis also hate anyone that claims to be a socialist, anarchist, or race traitor.

I am concerned that if we allow these nazis a foothold in portland they will begin killing as they have in the past. I know that these nazis are would be murderers. In the past these people were driven from the town forcefully. I know people that tried peace, then were attacked, then fought, and won. We have spent the last few years in relative peace from these people, but I remember how it was. I think that this is somthing of a referendum. If these nazis are the preditors they appear to be they should be driven off. I think symbolic messages work on people that have empathy. Facism is a politic based in striping yourself of empathy. On the part of facists this is often a collective effort. Meaning a facist alone, is likely to be a lot more empathetic than a pack of them.
Symbolic resistance didn't work against hitler, and if these people are what they apperently want to be then we, and I will fight. I am prepairing. My allies are prepairing. I will not condemn your collective response to this. I understand your motivation, I hope it works. I don't think it will. But I hope it does. All I ask is that together we do not attempt to attack or undermine eachothers efforts in responding to the nazis. Do what you will and I will do the same.

respect, and peace,
heck

whoa... 26.Dec.2004 02:04

nate nate@deadmusic.net

I'd just like to confirm something here. By intending to show up at the Nazi's rally, I do not intend to start any violent scenes. Please, anyone thinking about it, don't start any fights. First of all, that will get the shit kicked out of any other protestors who don't want to fight. Second, that will give the skins exactly what they want. They WANT us to fight them. They WANT this chance to prove their "pride" or willpower to the city. We can't look at this as a chance to "get back" at them; many of the above posts are right: this is what they want. It will just turn into another mindless fight. We must look at this as an opportunity to promote anti-racist and anti-oppressive values. Granted, if they confront me violently, I'd gladly defend myself.
Sure, many of us contribute to the racist system, but sometimes it isn't our fault. This is where it starts. To bring the system down, we have to fight it from inside, and right here in the streets is the best place to start promoting peace. From there, we can move up. Maybe this won't turn any skin heads away from their hate right away. Maybe their fliers won't turn (m)any people into Nazis with just this action. Maybe just protesting and handing out fliers won't directly affect the system on a larger scale. But if not now, when? If not you, who? (I know, I know, I stole that.) But seriously, if we don't do anything, it will just get worse. I know some of you are all for free speech, but who do you think I am? I'm not out to fight some oppressive war on the oppressors. I'm just a guy trying to defend the people around me before it gets bad, because it has before and can again (and already is now for that matter). Hopefully, I'll see you guys there.


self defense. 26.Dec.2004 10:48

heck

Going to the nazi rally ready to be attacked is different from going to the rally to attack. I'm going to confront thier politics. Peacefully if I can, and violently if they attack us. The difficult thing is many nazis look like punks. If they don't got some facist patch on it's difficult for me to tell them from any other punk. I saw a woman in the store the other night, she looked about 34 she had a blue chelsie haircut, and a shirt that said 4 skins- I was thinking she might be a bone cause her face was pock marked with crank sores. Is 4 skins a nazi band? I couldn't tell you. I know that a fair number of people got caught up and hurt that wern't nazis in the last round of nazi beat out. I know what thier group symbols look like, but beyond that I can't tell them from any other punk. I'd like some advice on how to address weither somones wearing nazi shit. Cause I got called out for saying that it's freaking wierd how a bunch of folks I work with are wearing these shirts with cross looking symbols, that look a hell of a lot like an iron cross.

It seems like what we need is a teach in on what nazis look like, that includes but is more extensive than thier groups symbols. Is there a group that knows enough about nazi subcultre/bands to inform us? What do we do if we think that a venue is hosting nazi events? How would you check? I remember going to confront this event where a holocaust denier was speaking and the restuant's owner denied that they knew that her restruant was packed full of nazis. She, and her cook were really certain that this was just a "german heritige society." We knew specificly that these people were nazis, but I couldn't tell a nazi band from anyother punk group in less they had a name like "kill jew, or hitler+" or some shit. You know?

heck

Anybody got a pickup truck? 26.Dec.2004 19:06

heimdallr

Eggs might be a little bit too much. It's pretty umabiguously a hostile provocation. Alternative suggestions:

I'm from Minnesota, where it snows in the winter (at least up until recently; every time I go home I get more alarmed at the very visible evidence of global warming; the 6 warmest years of the state's history have occurred since 1994, and it now only snows sporadically); Minneapolis ARA used to show to show up at Klan/skinhead rallies and throw snowballs. I always thought this tactic was brilliant, since it combines direct action and resistance with exactly the type of mood in which (I think) one should confront less subtle forms of racism--basically it says "your ideas are stupid/childish and we refuse to take them seriously." It's confrontational and de-escalating at the same time. I know Allah/Gaia's not likely to drop much snow right in Portland, but maybe somebody with the necessary equipment could make a trip up to Mt. Hood and bring some party favors. I'd volunteer, but I don't think I could carry much on my bike.

Alternately, anybody know where to get a large amount of rubber surgical tubing? I think the image of Nazis getting pelted with slingshotted water balloons would make them look pretty ridiculous if it showed up on the evening news. I guess it'll be pretty cold, so this might not be appropriate. (Ah, the curse of the Northwest. Somewhere between the icy North and the Sunshine State, we get the worst of both worlds.)

By the way, I think everybody should listen to Heck. As a 6th-generation German-American who saves time and money on grooming by buzzing my own hair, I'd appreciate it if people didn't just come out swinging at everything bald and white that happens to cross their path.

P.S. I don't mean to sound like I'm making light of the situation. Having grown up around a lot of racist violence, I've noticed that ridicule and mockery are often much more effective antidotes to that particular type of racism than is moralistic sanctimony. So, believe me, I'm pissed as fuck to see this shit happening here, but the best way to avoid giving them what they want is to treat them like the lonely morons they are rather than feeding their delusions that they're the front line in some kind of apocalyptic race war.

P.P.S. Stupid question: has anybody verified that this is actually happening? I'm remembering that Tom Metzger speaking event rumor from a few years back that resulted in a big rally organized to protest something that wasn't even happening. Just thought I'd ask.

Peace

Dead 26.Dec.2004 20:39

Muf

I've witnessed racist skinhead violence and if you WANT to be near it then you are not thinking clearly. There will be no reasoning, listening, or even conversation. These people will follow you and screw with you and you might just not make it home from Gabriel Park, which, unfortunately, will have it's serenity disturbed. If the Unity thing is too " Hippy " then stay home and in 40 years you will be able to tell your grandkids, if so you wish, that you didn't get killed at some stupid random gathering of ignorant punks.

Yes, throwing eggs is a violent act. Unless it's an egg toss , which is just plain ridiculous and should also be illegal.

By Any Means Necessary 26.Dec.2004 22:59

Mother of Sam

Kicking Nazi ass is not only justifiable ethically, it is likely the only thing they understand. Passive hand-wringing and complex philosophical debate does not stop them. The only thing that makes these idiots think twice about intimidation and violence is the possibility that they will be confronted by the same. Don't like it? Don't participate. For those that will join me in the streets - I got your back, sisters and brothers!

Violence worked last time 27.Dec.2004 16:14

No-Doz Bukowski

I mean really - you've probably noticed that you haven't been hearing much about Skinheads since the early 1990s. That's because they got their asses handed to them, in every major city in the US, right around 1985-90. It happened here in Portland - a coalition of gutterpunks, queers, and gangbangers patrolled downtown for years beating the shit out of anyone who showed his face in Nazi colors. It happened everywhere, and it kept all aspects of the White Pride/Power movements from holding major public demonstrations for about ten years.

Now they're coming back out of their hidey-holes because they believe the new racism that's running rampant in America, combined with the new cowardice that's running rampant in the protest movement, will create an environment that's more supportive of their methods and opinions. Are they right?

It wasn't too long ago that Nazi Skins were a very real danger to everyone who walked the streets alone. There were countless beatings, homicides, rapes, vandalisms, all over the US and the globe. We put a stop to that then, by challenging them directly and not being afraid to fight. Let's put a stop to it now, and let's do it before things get really out of hand.

5000. - N.

-mother of sam 27.Dec.2004 17:51

anti imperialist X

So anyone that doesn't provoke a fight is a coward, or a facist sympathizer? How many teeth are you missing? Can we confront this group without getting in a brawl? Maybee. Can we confront thier politics without bieng prepaired to brawl? No. Think, if these nazis are trying to become "victims" of us multicultural, anarchist, whatever- How do you think it will help them to be senslessly attacked by a mob supperior in numbers? Thier fucking leaders want to be martyrs, to polarize thier cause, and don't give a shit who they draw into it. If we are out numbered (which I doubt) then we confront thier racist politics just the same, and if they attack then we fight them all the harder. But if we attack without provocation, the law will be on thier side. Not that I respect the law. I just feel that we need to deal with one enemy at a time. We do not need another army on thier side. In either event the city of portland needs to realize that if they defend nazis there will be consequences. Also, venues that support nazi shows need to be educated.

We might be able to voice our "free speech" in a way that makes it undesirable for them to be there. I do no one thing. As a person that has invested political and social capital in the necessity of self defense and community defense, I don't think it helps to reduce "defending your community" to pre-emptivly attacking a bunch of idiots. When we confronted the holocaust deniers in washington, it didn't turn into a brawl. I repeat, we were confrontational, up in thier faces, pounding on the windows, shouting over thier speakers, and it didn't turn into a battle. This thing has been plastered all over the fucking web. The pigs will be there in force. Think sucess, fight to win.

One idea: We should bring duct tape, and zip ties, cause forcefully tying up a violent nazi might be more sensible/humiliating than beating them unconsious.

anti imperialist X

so much anger, so little real action 27.Dec.2004 21:13

prosthetic head

"Person of Color"'s essay is probably the only set of intelligent remarks that I've read on this thread. I was seduced by skinhead ideology when I was young; I simply grew out of it and am a completely different person now. You won't convince anyone to change their minds by using any of the childish techniques advocated here. You'll only further reinforce their beliefs that it's them against the world. Some of your ideas, such as throwing eggs, are actually assault under the law and will put your ass in jail, not theirs. Rallies? Fuck rallies. You can't fix ten thousand years of racism with your hand painted cardboard signs. Do something real to squash racism. Make friends with someone of a different race. Most of you will say you already have, but that guy you talked to for fifteen minutes in the bar doesn't count. Join a program to feed kids of all colors in a poor neighborhood. Teach a kid to read. Do something that is outside the narcissitic activist box that is all bark and no bite.

Cheers 27.Dec.2004 22:50

Muf

Precisely, P-Head! Join a group that teaches the youth the blunder of racism. Standing there yelling is NOT GOING TO DO A CRAPS BIT OF GOOD.
There will always be imbeciles.
We should find a way to express ourselves that is not confrontational. Let the police deal with the s...heads, and just leave them floundering and flailing.

Don't Speak For ALL "MINORITY" folks 27.Dec.2004 23:05

queer color

There are people of color and queers and jews that don't feel like a rally is going to cut it!!! Not all "minority" leaders agree with a peace rally gathering tactic some folks are and have always been ready to fight!!! While your downtown singing with a box of granola the residents of this park will have a real issue in their front yards. Speak for yourself or the groups that you have premission to represent!!! How many people of color, queers and jews do you think your group represent??? Don't put me in your box...I got some little Hittlers that need a spankin!

symbols 28.Dec.2004 00:00

heimdallr

Mostly in response to Heck:

Given the level of education of your average bonehead, I'd expect them to decorate themselves in a way that makes them fairly easy to recognize. I'd look for swastikas, (duh) although this symbol does exists in forms that are less familiar to many people than the one used by Hitler and friends back in the 30s/40s. A three-pronged version with obtuse instead of right angles is evidently common among South African and Australian fascist groups, for example. Confederate flags [unless there's a pot leaf on it--R.I.P., Darrell], SS 'lightning bolts,' things like that are all pretty unambiguous. resistancerecords.com is a record label that sells music from neo-Nazi bands, so you might check there for certain bands or logos to watch out for.

The biggest recommendation I'd make is to avoid jumping to conclusions. Actually, dating all the way back to Hitler, Nazism has always been an ideology that mostly attempts to coopt and distort pre-existing traditions and customs (along with their associated symbols) rather than create its own. The "Iron Cross" used by the Wilhelmine and Nazi governments of Germany, for example, is a very old sign with a long history of use in most European cultures as a representation of the sun. Its use in many of these traditions has connotations of strength, prosperity, success, etc. If it appears on a T-Shirt (there's a skateboarding company that uses it as a logo, for example), it's probably not a specific reference to mid-twentieth century German imperialism, though obviously no one could say for sure. I'm sure you'd be able to distinguish this more common generic form (two lines crossing each other isn't exactly a difficult graphical form to come up with) from specifically racist versions such as that used by the Klan (which has a drop of blood in the center). Non-racist skins and even SHARPs often make use of ancient Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/Germanic symbols, which carry no inherent racist meaning but might be mistaken for their racist counterparts at first glance.


Frequently, modern-day neo-Nazis borrow their symbols from popular culture. The 'Hammerskins', a British neo-Nazi group, apparently adopted as their insignia the crossed-hammers emblem that appears in the "In the Flesh" scene of the film based on Pink Floyd's 'The Wall,' which was created for the film and intended to be entirely fictional (representing the similarity between the hypnotizing spectacle of modern 'arena rock' concerts and fascist party rallies). I don't think your average Pink Floyd fan is likely to have Nazi sympathies, and the symbol appears on many a T-Shirt, so take the ADL website's reference to it as a means of identifying racists with a grain of salt.

Nazis tend to think that they're reviving or preserving the customs of ancient European pagans, so runes are something to look for, but again these aren't necessarily racist. The one that you should be on the lookout for is something they seem to think is a "Life Rune" but actually means "elk" or "moose" in the Futhark alphabet. It consists of a straight vertical line with two upward-angled branches. The misinterpretation of this sign as a "life rune" is probably due to the fact that its vertical opposite is the sign for "dead man" or the 'Death Rune' (You've seen this latter one before; put a circle around it and you have the peace symbol with which I assume we're all familiar. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, but go figure.) The upward-branching "Life Rune" use, as far as I know, originated with the Waffen-SS in World War II, so a non-Nazi would be unlikely to use it this way.

For some things to look for, you should probably do your research, but the ADL website has a gallery of common hate-group symbols with background information on each:

( http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/racist_symbols.asp)

However, none of this is based on a formal set of defintions for any of these images, so you might want to check for other possible uses. I'd recommend www.symbols.com ; you can get background info on pretty much any image used to signify anything, including alternate meanings as well as different images that mean the same thing.

I'd like to emphasize that I don't think anybody should go out looking for a fight. Self-defense is a question every individual needs to decide for him- or herself, but in all cases avoid making rash decisions or using violence indiscriminately.

My $00.02

The most important thing... 28.Dec.2004 00:23

nate

The most important thing to remember, all of you, is that we will be there to DEFEND our community, not start a fight. I will be there to protect the ones around me. Seriously, anyone looking to throw eggs or beat the shit out of them or what ever, WAIT until they actually attack us. Some of the above posts are very right.. the law will not be on our side if we do that, and we don't need two armies against us.

Screaming at a bunch of nazi kids in portland isn't going to change their mind - you're right. But I firmly believe that we must be there to reaffirm to them that they aren't wanted and their racist beliefs aren't wanted in the community. We MUST NOT start the fight - we must be there to defend our neighbors and friends from racist violence.

Real Mistakes 28.Dec.2004 08:27

autodelete66

Initiating Violence plays into their hands,and even if you win
do you really want to turn these people into martyrs?
More effective to expose- Rothschild- Rockefeller- Jesuit G.Mot-Ford
- I.B.M.support of Hitler.

Fight Rascist Govt., not racist clowns 28.Dec.2004 12:00

prosthetic head

It is admirable to want to defend your community and if they physically assault you then of course you have no choice but defend yourself. But remember, these folks are not really part of the Portland community. If I remember right, most of their activity is based in the Tualitin(sp?) valley.
My experience is that their chief recruiting grounds tend to the soulless suburbs around Portland, so they are really by and large intruders from outside who are delibrately coming in to this community because they know it will stir up a hornets nest and get them publicity like they'd never get if they staged this in Hillsboro. An analogy to your reactions to them can be found in the current Iraq-nam conflict. Our government, by playing their cards wrong, has actually aided Bin Laden and Co. by providing them with an enormous amount of publicity that has aided in their recruiting efforts. The similarity is that if you go and create a giant scene, then this largely marginal movement gets on the TV news and then some kid who is maybe teetering on being attracted to racism as an answer sees it and thinks"oh these guys are on the front lines fighting for me" and , bingo, another skinhead is born. Let them have their stupid rally. Anyone who is attracted to this is already borderline and will probably seek them out anyways. Besides, who cares about these guys when we have racism institutionalized at the highest level? Who makes more decisions that actually affect people, the racist government of Portland or a couple of bald guys making fools of themselves in the park? If you don't believe me, just check out the article on this site about the the city council's ban on selling single beers ONLY in the area of Portland that just happens to be the home of many of the city's minorities. Fuck the skinheads, it's shit like this that we need to pay attention to and fight against.

Come on, this is Bullshit 28.Dec.2004 12:55

DP richtaylor_2000@yahoo.com

Come on, you know if we give those assholes any attention, that's what they're looking for. There are going to be more news media folks out in Gabriel Park that day than skinheads!

Psychosandpunksagainstracism 29.Dec.2004 11:40

brian bone (founder of ppar psychosandpunksagainstracism@yahoo.com

so here is my two sence i have organized for people from tacoma salem portland the coov, and several other places to meet up, we are going to confront them, some of us might fight. you think the unity rally makes a difference but it dosent, standing up in force does. This city is plauged bye whitepower/swazi folk. And having gotten the shit kicked out them when i was 5-9 for being a jewish kid who live in a black foster family and haveing a foster broher who was a sharp its enough. these people do beat children, they do attack elderly people, THEY DO hurt the community. If they hadnt been so arrogant about their efforts we wouldnt know about them. now I know they like the attention, but who cares. portland needs to take a never again stance, and we are. SO if you want to confront them meet at pioneer square at noon on saturday the 8th

...but who cares... 29.Dec.2004 12:44

Muf

A lot of people care. That is why there is so much noise on this topic. One thing that rings true: These people are bastards.

Do you really think you can make a difference? Difference meaning a positive change in the outlook of all of our citenzenry, a step forward to peace and understanding. If so, then by all means go punch people and spit on them. Maybe if they bring young people, like babies, you could mace them. The old nazis are the ones you can really change. Why don't you burn down their homes, as that would probably cause them to step back and wonder, " What was I thinking?!!! "


"...but who cares..." Evidently not some of us. Care takes time. Violence takes lives.

exposet them 29.Dec.2004 13:40

pinbot

The Ghost Skins apparently like to be anonymous. The cops are supposedly going to monitor, but you know they're just there in case of violence.

2 things

1. Take pictures, get licence plates, follow them, find out who they are. Notify family, school, employers, etc. Vermin don't like light.

2. Follow them when they head out to drop pamphlets. They are likely to trespass or comit minor vandilism. If you have a video of them doing it, you can (cooperation of homeowner perhaps required here) get their asses hauled into court.

It's not worth trying to change their minds--or at least the odds aren't good. But you can make it hassle for them to operate. Brownshirts don't mind a fight, but nobody likes hassle.

No more website 30.Dec.2004 14:43

i

They appearantly took their website offline. I went there a week or two ago but didn't have time to read much so I just tried to go back to the site and I found a page saying that there is no website configured at that address.