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An activist for a diversity of tactics, calls on Will Semen to stop villanizing militant activists. NOW!
What's your problem? Why is it that anytime I hear radio coverage of a local protest, where protestors destroyed property, or walked through a fucking red light, or got hurt, I have to listen to you talk trash about your fellow protestors, and villanize them as "Feds?"

Don't you understand? Inciting reactionary hatred towards non-pacifists is MORE dangerious to thier physical safety than most random, or focused acts of property destruction. You are encouraging an enviroment in which it is acceptable for the police to attack protestors. All they need to say is "Uh, that person is violent," and like any good redscare the people's hearts stop beating for change and they become agents of co-operation. I got news for you, the real threat to civil liberties isn't from activists like me, it's from the facists in power! Arab americans, black americans, poor americans, are being rounded up and sent to INS detention facilities and you think some portland anarchists are a "big problem?" You got some nerve.

You would like to polarize us all. You would like to keep activists divided into camps of acceptable, and "not acceptable" tactics. This behavior is either woefully ignorant, or viciously strategic. How come you are so close to OPB? How come you have such affinity for cops? Last I heard NON-VIOLENT PPRC protestors were bieng brutally attacked, and peppersprayed by the police. I have rescued non-violent protestors from police attack. I have done this more than once, and would do it again DESPITE YOU. Because I believe in a movement that embraces people, as they are. I believe in a movement where militants do not incite violence but counter it, and stand in the way of it. I do not however place property's value above life. The local police and property reich activists are villanizing anyone that stands in the way of an ownership/slavery society, as terrorists. If you do not stop treating my comrads, good and decent activists, like terrorists, you have alligned yourself with facists.

The portland TERRORIST task force is a threat to us all, please stop.

What? And I defend Will 02.Dec.2004 18:15


I am a Vancouver resident & perhaps not very informed on this Ptld. task force. However, I do defend Will, his words and actions. I have attended the PPRC rallies almost from the beginning, and I have seen how the troublemakers have left PPRC. If that what makes us stay safe, then that is what I want, so I continue to come. I have trust in the group. I am able to support others for peace, and to pursue it myself. Thanks, Will! See you peace people Friday at 5, as always. We tell the City of Ptld, we will not go away.

I didn't ask that PPRC go away. 02.Dec.2004 18:43


Will Semen needs to quit villanizing other protestors on the radio. I was heartened to listen to the good work that american civil liberties union is doing to shut down the PJTTF. Many activists I work with are working twards the same effort. Then what do I hear, but another shit talking rant directed at villanizing portlands militant actavists by none other than will semen. I got no problem with PPRC. I've defended your group recently asking that other actavists help stop polarization on the left, and lay off pprc.


and double damn OPB for airing such trash!

brilliant commentary, mike b 02.Dec.2004 19:25

very illuminating

thanks so much for your input.

I think Mike B was saying.. 02.Dec.2004 20:19


That it's not pprc that's so terrible it's that Will is putting down other activists for their chosen tactics. It is very disheartening when someone else is not allowing you to practice, or putting you down for practicing, your chosen tactics. Unity, blah blah blah, you've all heard the speech before. Just lay off others ways of protesting, using as many tactics as possible is more effective than limiting your output.

... 02.Dec.2004 20:50


This has always been a problem for "the peace movement." I.e., "peace" not just as a political goal for an overextended, imperialized violent state to fuckin' back off from bombing the other end of the planet, but "peace" as a one-stop-shopping, one-size-fits-all sloganistic solution to every single one of your problems, personal, political, and everything in between. If your society is violent and alienated, it's not peaceful enough. If your protests are ineffective, it's because they're not peaceful enough. If the cops treat you bad, it's because you're not peaceful enough. If radio personalities talk shit about you, it's because you're not peaceful enough.

It's called a "race to the bottom," and the finish line is a candlelight vigil in your own back yard in your meditation garden by yourself praying for World Peace.

Good luck.

Will Seaman RULES 02.Dec.2004 21:06

red suspenders

Who the hell are You?

Will is out every week to stand up for our rights and our freedom. Will has the courage to stick his neck out in public while your slinking in the shadows typing on the computer and likely drinking some five dollar foo foo starbucks coffee.

I have been jailed twice for participating in demonstrations. Many of the so called activists were just out looking for a good time and a little adventure they seem to be the ones that cry the most about the cuffs being too tight, being too cold, not being allowed to call mommy etc. Also they're the ones sucking up the most to the cops when in custody. They forget about what ever cause they had within five minutes of being arrested. They make us all look bad.

If you take so much offense to Mr. Seaman's statement well then maybe you might just resemble that remark.

Will puts himself at risk at least once a week for our country, our world, and YOUR right to snivel. The man leads a drum corps. It reminds all downtown to stay involved to the point that when we have a big demonstration every three months we get tens of thousands of people in the street.

What did you do in the last week? or month? how many people have you brought to the peace and justice movement?

OK 02.Dec.2004 22:02

I give

If Mr. Semen puts himself at risk at least once a week by leading a drum corps, he's obviously Jesus in disguise. And you, Mr. Red Suspenders, please don't ever come to my defense talking out yer ass with your inferences and assumptions.

Personal Attacks 02.Dec.2004 22:28


Red Suspenders;
I have no interest in personally attacking Will Semen because he really isn't worth my time. I do however have a problem with you blindly defending his 'actions' (march in any circles lately?) and unjustly condemning mb. Fuck you buddy. You've been arrested. Twice. Fabulous. Me too. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience but I'm just saying people have been through worse for the cause and that you don't know what other people have been through so it's pretty harsh to judge them. Will, on the other hand, displays whatever it is that he thinks he does each week at PPRC and then talks shit about ACTIVists on the radio. That's what puts him out in the open for criticism.

Will Semen does not put himself at risk for me. If anything, Will leads the troops into a mindset where they would identify activists who employ different 'tactics' to the cops! I tried PPRC. I got frustrated and did some real work within the community.

Will Seaman is only one of PPRC's sexist "Sundayschool Soldier" muffins 02.Dec.2004 22:44

former PPRC enthusiast

Mike Clayhold, Will's long-time PPRC co-captain, is a censorious bigot, in his own doctrinaire way, on a par with Pentacostals and Michael Powell. I particularly dislike Clayhold's hardly-at-all disguised homophobia and absolute intolerance of internal dissent.
. In the long-ago days of my PPRC pparticipation, we had open meetings weekly to discuss and reach consensus for upcoming initiatives for the group. It has since become a two or sometimes three man cadre dictating precisely what messages signs may carry and Bowdlerizing chants enough to make spectators yawn.
. Portland definitely needs another ongoing organizing vehicle for protesting activists to rally round--one where outrage can be expressed as outrage--instead of as bleating by neutered sheep!
. The now forming 'Cascadiac Subvertistas' seem to be a possible node that can create a freer-form rival to PPRC's stylistic straight jacket. The Subvertistas maintain a website with contact information at
< http://www.subvertical.org/>
Subvertistas are STRICTLY non-violent, but show no shortfall of 'lower-case anarchist' zest.

love you, buddy 02.Dec.2004 23:09

green codfish

Whatever harm Will causes for militant activists, it's not nearly as much as they cause for themselves. If activists would stop worrying about Will, and would just show unity within themselves, the movement would be a whole hell of a lot stronger. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard people proclaim solidarity and then slink away at the first sign of danger... jeezus...

Not being a person who lives the militant activist lifestyle, I would like to hear about all the good things that are supposed to come from militant activism. How do militant activists see their work as affecting change? Is shutting down traffic once or twice a year and smashing a few windows supposed to do any good? I do think the WTO protests did some good, but effective events like that seem far and few between to me.

Flame away.

Does anyone remember a callout for an "anarchist drum corps?" 02.Dec.2004 23:56


Thanks for responding will.

Violent versus Nonviolent, NO MORE! 03.Dec.2004 00:41


I am a political organizer. I have been for years. Apperently people that respect me don't frequent your circles. I do not want to flame Will Semen, I want him to acknowledge that it is not ok to bash dedicated hard working actavists on the fucking radio. Ok? I stand for self defense. I stand for community defense. I think the eruptions of the anti globalization movement are just as relevant as any thing "peacefull protestors" have done. I respect both. I respect ghandi, and I respect malcolm. There is no safety in social change, real change means risking personal harm, putting the good of everyone above your personal comfort. Ghandi and malcolm both died violent deaths. They both had relevant ideas. Niether of them lived the comfortable illusion some people call peace.

I am defending my community by calling out Will on behavior that endangers actavists I respect. It is not ok to equate actavist property destruction, with actions of the cointell pro. It legitamizes the actions of people that would kill us all, if they could. The federal government violently murdered panthers. They violently murdered actavists I respect. I don't want to see my friends rounded up. I don't want to see people in pprc rounded up, or beat, or peppersprayed. I want to work together. Do you think I rejoice at the news that your people were hurt?
NO! I beleive in ONE STRUGGLE, ONE FIGHT, I believe we need a unity politic.
I work full time, go to school, and I organize. I too have been arrested. I've been un-arrested, then seen my rescuers condemned by people in your camp.

Is it somehow OK that ELF actavists will do 20+ years for destroying some suv's when many murderers do 8?

Does it really help us to say "We'll only support Tre if he didn't do it?"

Is it moral that property is valued above life? Isn't this the fundamental question that drives peace actavism? Can any moral person argue that life is less important than property? Doesn't saying that it is have implications on your actavism as well, as mine? When is is ok to kill for property? When is it ok to lock someone up for the rest of thier adult life for property? When is it ok to advocate "catching those terrorists" when they simply destroyed property?
Does your actavism express a moral compass that is different from the police officers compass or not? Who elected me guardian of the actavist community? WHO ELECTED YOU?

We're bieng pigion holed in a shell game of compromise, and co-operation.
When all around I see the fundaments of a facist insurgency, and it needs to be stoped. I don't believe that I, or YOU alone have the power to do this. Do you dissagree?

This is why I am angry at will. This is why I do not want to be angry with will. I him, and you, to understand.

words words words 03.Dec.2004 01:42

funny things

I don't think we should concede to the pigs' use of the term "cooperation" to mean "collaboration" or "compliance" with police instructions and demands. "Cooperation" is what we do with each other. Those other two words are good for those other things. "Collaborator" has a completely appropriate negative connotation. It's a good word. Let's use it. Let's not give them "cooperate" just 'cause they're trying to take it away.

... 03.Dec.2004 03:24


Or maybe you meant "co-optation" ...

(I assume that's even a word ... I've never seen the noun form in print.)

His name is Seaman and he rocks! 03.Dec.2004 07:51

Andy The Green

I have had the honor and pleasure of working with Will and I know him to be a great guy and a wonderful activist. I'm not sure what he said on the radio, and perhaps his words could have been more carefully chosen.

That being said, working with a coalition as broad-based as PPRC is a near impossible task. No matter what he does, someone will be unhappy. To keep PPRC broad-based, that coalition needs to endorse only tactics that will keep the more conservative groups in it happy. If people are unwilling to abide by PPRC's guidelines for participating in its actions, they are free to organize their own. If PPRC is to succeed, it needs to reach out beyond the militant radicals that so many of us on indymedia align ourselves with.

you can dish it out... 03.Dec.2004 09:15


hey michael b. aren't you the same guy who gets super pissed off when people call out your buddy craig rosebraugh. aren't you the guy who's always saying stop it with the personal attacks already?

you should either cool it with the demonizing the individual bit, or support it when people attack other so-called leaders of the movement, i.e. craig.

When I first began to infiltrate the resistance movements, 03.Dec.2004 09:27

Bill Bradley bradley@lclark.edu

it was my assignment to divert the attention of the left as much as possible toward internal conflict that neutralizes dynamic organizers, encourages self-marginalization, turns off anyone not drawn to fighting against people with whom they agree, and in general inclines people to give up and accept things the way they are. Every time there is an overly personal attack article like this, it furthers my purposes. I consider it very fortunate that past advances in speaking to fellow activists directly and resolving differences seem to have been forgotten. It is my greatest fear that radicals will remember how to challenge each other productively and encourage more effective action and my most devout hope that principled concerns are instead voiced as attacks against the most committed and hardworking.

On behalf of the agency, I wish to thank the author of this piece for subverting the work better than we thought to this time. We are always learning from this sort of thing. I do worry sometimes that people are so inclined to attack anyone who takes the initiative to organize anything that agents like me are actually unnecessary. On the other hand, with more and more regular people questioning the death machine for which I work, we just cannot take the chance that radicals will develop an increasingly genuine popular base that encourages ever more self-organizing action and support, strategic thinking, and learning from each other. No, there is still far too much potential in the work of the author, the commentors, and Will Seaman, to leave it to human nature to hold each other back. Besides, we have to do something with our embarassment of budgetary wealth. We can't spend all of our time harassing Pufferbelly Toys.

Love always, The Man

hey MB, the man's name is spelled S-E-A-M-A-N 03.Dec.2004 12:37



I don't know you personally, but I have seen your work a few times. I have been impressed on some levels with your organizing skills and your clear passion for the cause.

I can fully understand your expressed sentiments about a unified movement. For example, you have written, "Because I believe in a movement that embraces people, as they are" and "I believe in one struggle, one fight".

I realize that spelling is a subjective kind of thing for a lot of people. A quick look of your posts on this thread shows some creative spelling on your part, i.e. twards (towards), villanizing (villainizing), thier (their), comrads (comrades), actavists (activists). So I don't know if your repeated spelling of Will Seaman's last name as 'Semen' is simply another misspelling or an intentional slam on an elementary school level.

If you don't know how to spell the man's name, please try to do it correctly in the future. If you are intentionally spelling Mr. Seaman's name as "Semen", it makes you look like a prick.

Over the years, I have also had my problems with the PPRC, but not with the passion of the people who show up every Friday to call for change. If you truly believe in 'one struggle, one fight' and 'a movement that embraces people as they are', you might want to reconsider personally attacking people such a Will who have a great deal of respect in the community. It may bolster your reputation in your own organization, but it trashes you AND your organization in the minds of many people who respect the PPRC, Will Seaman, and others who are on that track.

Thanks for reading...

What he said on the radio 03.Dec.2004 15:52


Yesterday evening, on an OPB program regarding the upcoming PJTTF renewal meeting, and broad dissent towards its renewal, OPB found a token activist (aka Will Seaman) to subvert the conversation from actual issues of cilvil liberties and government/corporate facism in this country, to slamming any non-pacifist activist and inferring that such non-pacifists are federal agents, using the power of the PJTTF and PATRIOT act to destroy the only "legitimate" activist work going on (aka PPRC).

I heard what he said, and this is my impression of it. I'm not going to paraphrase, but I am going to look for a transcript to post here.

I think Michael B is right on in attempting to counter this. I don't think mb is the one who is polarizing- that would be what Will Seaman did on public radio. mb is reacting, and I think some reaction is necessary to this kind of sick divisiveness, but I don't know what this particular reaction has accomplished.

I hope that members of PPRC and other sympathizers of Seaman look at what the attitude portrayed in Seaman's statements could do to any potential to change. I hope you care about making change, and not just making your own organization look "legitimate" at the expense of everyone else's lives and freedoms.

I am disappointed that OPB didn't interview a more knowledgable activist about the PJTTF- someone who has actually been doing something about it.

Will he respond? Will he stop? 03.Dec.2004 16:15

Michael b

In the future I will make a clear piont to remember and correctly spell Mr.Seaman's name right. Thank you. Will, I apologise for misspelling your name. To any other readers I apologise for my bad spelling in general.

As for my post, your damn right it was reactionary. I'm tired of reacting to Will and his allies. I'm tired of haveing actavists like Dan Handleman telling his allies to stay away from me. I'm tired of having people I work with say "so, and so is talking shit about us on the radio." I heard it first hand this time, and I wish he'd never said it. I have no interest or will to hate Mr. Seaman, but cannot afford to disengage from this dialoge. The risks are too great. I want to personally engage our differences and find a way not to derail each others work. Untill both parties decide to do this, we will negate eachother. I have to. I cannot afford not to. I cannot afford to have myself or my allies singled out and captured by peace actavists at protests. I cannot afford to be video taped by peace police, that tolerate, or intend to sell footage to the cops. I cannot afford to go to jail for 20+ years for doing what I view as serious social justice work.

Now could Will Seamen please detail why he thinks it's important to muddy our common work of shutting down the fucking PJTTF by calling us terrorists, and feds on the radio?

You don't have to apologize mb 03.Dec.2004 17:13

Mrs. Rondinson, whoops I mean Mrs. Robertson :-)

But I do think "observer" should apologize because your spelling has nothing to do with this article. I HATE when people try and correct me of my spelling and grammar. mb, have you tried to have a conversation with Will Seeman, oh whoops, I mean Will Seaman about this before posting it on this site? If not, maybe you should. Your frusterations will then be going directly to the source.

to "mrs. robinson" 03.Dec.2004 17:56


please. i don't care about people's spelling, unless is it so poor as to detract from my ability to understand one's meaning. i am not an english/spelling teacher, but a member of the community. (some of the most articulate people i know have a terrible time spelling words correctly, especially on a computer keyboard.)

the purpose of my post was to respond to what i perceived could be a personal slur on the subject of the original post by michael b. i wasn't certain of the malicious intent, given a few other misspelled words in mr. b's post, so i listed those words to display the benefit of the doubt.

it was only to point out that, in my opinion, purposely calling someone 'Semen' when their name is 'Seaman' is a juvenile taunt and would turn people off.

thanks for reading.


se·men -

n. A viscous whitish secretion of the male reproductive organs, containing spermatozoa and consisting of secretions of the testes, seminal vesicles, prostate, and bulbourethral glands. Also called seminal fluid.

To kiko 04.Dec.2004 00:07


I agree with you. What does a "seemingly" progressive radio station have to gain by villanizing actavists, and making devisive characterizations of us?

Again, I'm sorry I misspelled his name.

The Problem is even worse than you thoug 04.Dec.2004 15:01


Michael B:

Rather than blame individuals or any of the rag-tag activist groups, it may be helpful to cast a broader look at the alleged "peace-protest-progressive" groups...Just what is the wonderous moral virtue of being fragmented into ineffective & powerless cliques?