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Red? Blue?

i'm bored with red states and blue states. Who cares if it's a red state or a blue state.
We're treating "blue states" as if they're the epitome of enlightenment. When I see the map of red and blue states, I see 50 states that voted for a pro-war neocon hierarchial jackass. The democrats are not our allies, people. "The most liberal senator" told us we should blindly follow bush. Any ally of ours would say smash that motherfucker. Kerry said that marriage is between a man and a woman. Fuck that. We know better than that. This is what happens when you trust the democrats, they abuse your trust to try to further the party, so that someday, maybe, we'll have a candidate fighting for what's right. Pshaw. All the states went the wrong way.
Well said indeed! 22.Nov.2004 01:02

justlikeme

Testify!!

Election Fraud 22.Nov.2004 04:01

.

yes Kerry was not what most of us wanted. Yes the democrats are only a micro dot left of hardcore fascism. Red-blue? there are several realities here. One the election was a fraud (did we really expect Fascists to behave in an election?). The country as a whole needs to get unplugged from their TVs and take a long hard look at all the cruelity they have imposed on others and themselves in class warfare, attempted genocides, ecocide and other atrocities. We need really education and critical thinking skills. Social injustices must be faced (personally I would like the elite feed the poor... ideally ground up, baked or made into meatballs and fed to their devotees... eat the rich!). But most importantly the illusion of blue versus red gives Cascadia the needed push to ignore all the commonalities and say "goodbye" US Fascists!

More COINTELPRO directed against secession. 22.Nov.2004 05:19

Reader

COINTEPRO operations usually use specialized immitations of speech to bestow the illusion that an ordinary person wrote the message. Ordinary people usually do not write using these textual queues.

Let's think about this on another plane. Let us suppose that someone does not like the Red States vs. Blue States meme. Do you really believe it would be a sufficiently large concern to them to post, one by one, their denounciations of it? Getting the Red States and Blue States into the same bed is what the Feds want. Think about who a post benefits when you read it.

I understand the concern... 22.Nov.2004 07:48

some kid

regarding COINTELPRO being at work here, but it isn't. Granted there is probobally no way to convince you of that, and you should be leary as cointelpro probobally accounts for like 5% of what we read on here. Of course i'm sufficiantly aggrevated. Every other post on here is like "the stupid red states did this" or "those glorious blue states say this". Who gives a fuck. We are states full of people and every single state voted for a neocon.

as for election fraud: agreed, there was election fraud at work during this election and it's fucked. Luckily, though, Cobb and Badnarik and the others have their head out of their ass enough to know that bush is of course going to use dirty tricks like election fraud. So many people invested their time and money into kerry so he could just quit. 'tis bullshit.

time to end the red blues state bs 22.Nov.2004 08:39

.

the electoral college is why we have red-blue states. it is clear that all this does is make people feel helpless, like their vote doesn't count. "i live in a red state, so why should i bother voting" - so many people don't even bother to vote. this affects the house and senate races tremendously- not in a good way.

imagine if every vote counted towards the total, and the popular vote won.... then every single person in every state would feel that their vote counted. do you think gee dubya wants that?

the problem is that both corporate parties will never change a damn thing- we don't need a new election to elect more stooges into the same corrupt system- we need to toss them all out and begin again from the beginning.

see mosh2 for details
 http://eminem.com

Oh come on'...You can't really mean that 22.Nov.2004 09:05

paranoia

Are you fucking kidding? Almost every post I've seen on indymedia lately has someone accusing someone of being co-intel pro. The people this is aimed at range from folks offering criticism/concerns about seccession, to indirect anti-seccession posts like this...although I don't really see how this post is trying to be anti-seccession. As someone who believes the red state blue state perception is stupid, misinformed and hurting our ability to talk about real issues and build a strong national movement (by obscuring eastern oregon, by obscuring all the progressive in the urban south etc) - I can see getting motivated to post something to indymedia about this. It seems like a lot more valid posting and good use of my time than obsessive accusations of co-intel pro.

Is this person for real? If you are - I would suggest you think seriously about the tendencies for fascism you are displaying in suggesting anyone who doesn't have the same political beliefs as you must be co-intel pro. I'd also think about the effects of obsessive paranoia on community building. Folks who've studied co-intel pro would probably tell you one of the worst effects of having co-intel pro directed at a community is paranoia.

Sorry if I neutralized your COINTELPRO work. 22.Nov.2004 10:06

Reader

I realize that spending so much time online attempting to derail self determination is a job requiring much work. It must be very frustrating when it is exposed. Better luck next time.

dot dot dot 22.Nov.2004 10:26

some kid

i'm not anti-secession. i'm actively working toward secession. the posts I see that feel like cointelpro to me are the ones that are like "let's go blow up building". I feel as if cointelpro has better things to do than post about their petty grievances. How can I convince you that I'm just some kid annoyed with all the "red v. blue" posts? Want my email?  RegicidalTendancies@riseup.net Not that that disproves me being cointelpro, but surely there is some way.

Cointelpro? 22.Nov.2004 12:25

Ack

What the hell? Cointelpro? Have you noticed that everyone spewaing "Cointelpro" is doing so in a context that silences questions? When people ask if a politicaly motivated secesion is what we need somebody cries "cointelpro"... this is just too damn obvious! It's like saying you're un-patriotic, or counter-revolutionary, not hard-core enough... 'if you actualy bring up this question of authority, well you must be a state agent...'
What the fuck?
Any movement by the people for the people is entitled to be questioned, by EVERYONE! This is not some law, or amendmant, or mandate, either, it's common sence.
If "unity through ignorance" is what you want to win this secesion, you can count me out, and anyone else dedicated to a real change. Get a clue! We make enough sacrifices every day, most of us sacrifice our entire lives to capitalism just to "survive"... why must we sacrifice a say in our own movement?

Stop with this Cointelpro crap!
When your sister starts telling you about how good government is and how bad terrorists and revolutonaries are, when your best friend starts telling you about the virtues of GWB, when your mom kicks you out or turns you in, THEN you can worry about Cointelpro!

P.S. Screw "red states" versus "Blue states" it's that kind of ideology that leads to state nationalism, patriotism, and eventualy genocide. Real revolution comes from neither Ds or Rs, or socialists or communists or greens or whatever... but rather from humans.

RS vs BS 22.Nov.2004 13:31

Fred C. Dobbs

Red States, Blue States its all Purple Haze to me. Some say Seseccionist are a Cointelpro Op to release the Army into the areas of the country that thye want to 'occupy'.

Lost 22.Nov.2004 14:14

George Bender

A lot of you are getting lost in your paranoia instead of dealing with real issues. The left has a long history of this. I remember in Eugene over 20 years ago a friend, not very well grounded in reality, telling me that the feds were going to round us up and put us in concentration camps. Never happened, never will. Why would they bother when we can be so easily controlled through TV?

Think about getting out of your tiny little world and organizing for change.


Oh, George... 22.Nov.2004 15:12

alsis38 alsis35@yahoo.com

...Anyone who fails to get totally immersed 24/7 in the Conspiracy Du Jour or who isn't quite sure that secession is the solution to our problems is part of CONTELINPRO, or STASI, or UNCLE, or whatever. Didn't you get the memo ? :p

COINTELPRO 22.Nov.2004 16:37

It's obvious.

The only people who feel passionate about secession are secessionist. Non-secessionists do not feel passionate about it. When screwly little posts are placed online with absurd objections and accusations (like racism when race has not even been mentioned) and posts fishing out replies with regard to violence are made, you can be sure that there is a motivation behind those posts. Now, as I mentioned, since no one is about to seceed in the next short period of time, only secessionists feel passionate about it. Therefore, those posing as passionate anti-secessionists are fakes. No one has a reason to passionately anti-secessionist. It isn't like its about to happen in the next few years. Think about it.

Posts like "I'm bored about "red/blue" states" are troll posts. They are an attempt to discourage discussion of an issue and they use a psychological ploy (feigned unpopularity) to do it.

I've been watching COINTELPRO for a long time. Call if paranoia if you wish, but it is not paranoia. Only a complete moron would think the U.S. Government is trolling away trying to discourage conversations about secession.

I would estimate that 90% of the anti-secessionist posts are COINTELPRO.

Deal with it.

Hey red, hey blue, what's wrong with you. . .? 22.Nov.2004 18:29

jambalaya

There aren't red and blue states.

There are varying shades of purple.

Polarization on this line will only serve to waste time.

pshaw 22.Nov.2004 19:02

some confused kid

I'm known by at least a few of the people who posted on here. If you'd come outside and take off the tin-foil hat, you'd probobally know me too. But for argument's sake, let's say I'm J. Edgar Hoover's ghost. I'm just posting this to undermine your efforts and degrade your struggle. Is posting saying "you're COINTELPRO, I caught you!" the best response? Or would it be better to blow away any fallacys in my logic and leave me without a valid rsponse. You aren't doing a good job of questioning what I say, you're only questioning who I am. Who I am is some kid doing what he can as an activist to make the world a little better. Furthermore: Stop calling this anti-secession because i'm pro-secession. I'm actively working on secession.

Even Furthermore: Go Ack for seeing what I mean! It's not like the blue states are so much smarter than the red states. If what I wanted was a pro-war neocon, I'd go for the original one, not a fake. Apparantly that's what a lot of people were looking for. The "blue states" ended up with a pro-war neocon because they announced early that they'd settle for anything.

Cointelpro person is a right wing troll 22.Nov.2004 21:10

seriously....

Ok I can't prove it but I'd be willing to bet that the person posting these cointelpro is either a nutcase or a right-winger trying to waste our time....they are posting on every article on the site accusing everyone who disagrees with intial posts of being cointelpro. Come on people, just ignore 'em!

one state, two state, red state, blue state 22.Nov.2004 22:18

moth

So the red vs. blue state debate leads to COINTELPRO accusations and everything that accompanies paranoia, whether real or imagined. Secession is becoming a hot topic and is definitely monitored by feds, though every other comment is not neccesarily a gvnmt goon trying to sideline the discussion..

The problem with the red vs. blue states is that it neglects all the people who didn't even vote, something close to 50% in many states. They are totally disgruntled with the entire process and don't really like either choice, so consider them shades of grey (or green or maroon, etc..)

Then there's the local differences in each state, like the right wing majority in Orange county California (blue state) contrasts the left wing majority in San Fran, though again many people didn't vote 4 Kerry in SF either. Even labeling people left/right may eventually prove detrimental to the cause of secession. Political polarization that creates the "vs" mentality seems to benfit the elites more than the people..

Blue state residents that are staunch Democrats may still support "American values" and actually turn in secessionists whom they consider traitors to a "democratic nation" while red state residents that are pot smoking Libertarians may be all for secession because they are tired of the doggone Sheriffs snatching their stash..

Humyns are too darn complicated to fit into the corporate media election results maps of red vs. blue state. A secessionist can begin planting seeds of autonomy and resistance in any community anywhere, not limited by the labeled "color code" of the state..

Yes, ignore the COINTELPRO warnings. 23.Nov.2004 08:30

Feds

The Federal Government does not monitor issues like secession. They really don't mind if you secede and they don't engage in COINTELPRO.

Thanks.

Publid Notice 23.Nov.2004 12:33

US Government

Thanks for working with us and calling everything you do not like COINTENTPRO, we love wasting your time, far beyond what we dream we could do. Long live dysfunctional paranoia. We want you afraid and weak thank you again.

PS, be sure to shop.