portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article reporting portland metro

9.11 investigation

NO EVIDENCE FOUND OF 757 AT PENTAGON

This was produced by North East Illinois University and it is very compelling evidence that a 757 did not strike the Pentagon on 9/11/01.
Click here for an incredible, quick loading video about the attack on the Pentagon. NO EVIDENCE OF 757 AT THE PENTAGON
Excellent short informative pics, insights. 21.Nov.2004 23:56

Ed Ward, MD

Thanks Messenger.

My Best to You and Yours,

Ed

Very slick and reasonable 22.Nov.2004 01:55

X File

Usually when something this well produced appears someone lables it as being the work of a 'troll'. I am now one answer away from making the HUGE leap of faith that the source of explosion was other than AA flight 77.

Question: If the not crashing into the Pentagon, where did AA flight 77 land, and who murdered the the crew and passengers?

add the C-130 22.Nov.2004 02:27

more

add the C-130 to the story and it gets even more accurate:
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/07/291925.shtml

Well Poisoning Meme 22.Nov.2004 05:15

Reader

This "no commercial jet hit the Pentagon" meme is a "well poisoning" meme intended to discredit those with theories doubting the official account of 9/11 by painting them all as paranoid. The post referring to "trolls" confirms this. The strategy is to create the illusion that the position is reasonable and that others are adopting it. This creates a sociological force that disarms thoughtful critics. You can be sure that this coordinated program to push the "no commercial jet hit the Pentagon" will later by discredited by evidence that such a plane did, indeed, hit the Pentagon. The dimissal of the meme will then be generalized to make the false claim that all alternative theories against the official position are paranoid.

Love, anti-COINTELPRO-er.

US scientists and technicians where are you? 22.Nov.2004 08:24

can it be?

How can it be that the world's most advanced country in the realm of science and technology has something like this happen without its scientific community -supposedly dedicated patriots- shouting out loud their questions and concerns to the world? Are they all muzzled? Are they all scared?
Are they all abandoning democratic principles for nazism?

This is UNBELIEVABLE! SHAME on them! Their children will be ashamed of them one day when the truth comes out. And truth always comes out!

Paranoia will destroy ya! 22.Nov.2004 08:33

Hal E. Burton

Paranoia will destroy ya!

Hey IndyMedia site tenders. . .

Isn't about time to start a "Conspiracy" space so all these tin-foil hat folks can discuss UFOs, missing planes, government plots and the like with each other and leave more thoughtful political discourse to the rest of us. . .?

Paranoid? What has that to do with FACTS? 22.Nov.2004 09:23

Ed Ward, MD

Multiple facts presented in an outstanding presentation. Rebuttal? None, just personal attackes from those either blinded by the waters of Da' Nile or just fascists protecting fascism. Afraid you are going to have to produce facts for me, not just personal attack BS.

TR E WAR, III
Founder, LA-CRC,  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LA-CRC/
Founder, LSMP,  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LSMP/
edward19(at)cox.net (at) = @ (for the @ crawlers) my email.
 http://thepriceofliberty.org/ward.htm
 https://www.quickbase.com/db/99r7qj9f?redmsg=E-mail+sent+to+HaversineConsulting (Class action lawsuit state info)
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/louisianacivilrightscouncil/ (LA state info)
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LA-CRC/ [Louisiana Civil Rights Council Message Board]
Learn about your Family and Individual Constitutional Rights and this governments Constitutional Restrictions and Vote.
 link to www.google.com

FAIR USE NOTICE This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Serious discussion vs. paranoia 22.Nov.2004 09:34

lc

Spies! You're all Spies working for Bush! But seriously, accusations will get us nowhere -- and worse -- fighting each other. I have seen a passenger list of names on this flight along with pilot/crew photos. There were funerals held for them with relatives and friends attending. Where are these people? Shouldn't we be directing our attention to this question? Serious discussion needs to prevail! Please pay attention to what two of the previous posters ask:

From X File -
Question: If the not crashing into the Pentagon, where did AA flight 77 land, and who murdered the crew and passengers?

From Hal E. Burton -
Isn't about time to start a "Conspiracy" space so all these tin-foil hat folks can discuss UFOs, missing planes, government plots and the like with each other and leave more thoughtful political discourse to the rest of us. . .?

Nice posting to yourself, ED. 22.Nov.2004 10:08

Reader

Let's see, you post an article and then respond to it about how great it is.

I don't need to prove I'm right, time will prove me right. The entire purpose of your post is a set up for the soon to come reports proving that a 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

Seen all of this before. It's called PsyOps.

More BS for facts 22.Nov.2004 10:25

Ed Ward, MD

I have an opinion based on facts. Don't need one based on BS. It is not my article. Oh, yeah, I'll ignore facts in the hopes of some future BS. Blinded by the waters of Da' Nile? Or just another fascist promoting fascism?

TR E WAR, III

Warning! Before you waste time and bandwidth. . . 22.Nov.2004 10:49

Hal E. Burton

When I clip the "hmmm.htm" portion off this website, I get the virus "All your base is belong screen"

Load at your own risk! I will not be doing so, and I advise against it. If the MD is not merely a mental deficient, let him post his facts, not just a link. And if you need to debunk something in short order, try these tests. . .


Occam's Razor (also Ockham's Razor or any of several other spellings), is a principle attributed to the 14th century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham that forms the basis of methodological reductionism, also called parsimony.

In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should not take more assumptions than needed. When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred. A charred tree on the ground could be caused by a landing alien ship or a lightning strike. According to Occam's Razor, the lightning strike is the preferred explanation as it requires the fewest assumptions.

Then ask:
Wouldn't every reporter in the mainstream media love to get the Pulitzer for this story?
Wouldn't every media channel love to get the ad revenues from covering this story?
Wouldn't one of the conspirators want to get the money from a book deal with this story?

works fine for me 22.Nov.2004 11:03

though I've seen it already

Just a shockwave/flash movie, you can get to it here:
 http://www.neiu.edu/~ayjamess/pentagon%5B1%5D.swf

It asks good questions, particularly about the failure to release any of the video footage that would show the plane. Considering there is no reason not to release this footage if it indeed just shows a 757 the implications for why this hasn't been done is troubling indeed.

>> Wouldn't every reporter in the mainstream media love to get the Pulitzer for this story?

No.

>> Wouldn't every media channel love to get the ad revenues from covering this story?

No.

>> Wouldn't one of the conspirators want to get the money from a book deal with this story?

No.

These answers are self-evident. None of these people would benefit from covering such a story and we certainly cannot expect the media or the conspirators to work against there best interest.

As for Occam's Razor, the official 9/11 conspiracy makes all kinds of crazy assumptions, therefore Occam's Razor would dictate that the attacks were not carried out in the manner promoted by the US government. The number of glaring inconsistencies is simply too large. So then, what is the simplest solution, with the fewest assumptions?


pentagon struck by bunker busting missile 22.Nov.2004 11:07

agent 99

look at the images carefully; the pentalawn is virtually immaculate, and the mystery craft ends up punching rather small round holes through successive rings of reinforced concrete walls. the only videos which might have captured the craft as it hit the pentagon were confiscated by the feds and have been kept hidden. add to this the controlled demolitions of the wtc towers and the evidence clearly points to an inside job at the highest levels.

Works fine for me too. 22.Nov.2004 11:10

Ed Ward, MD

Fascists have no problem with UNFACTUAL information. They just want to keep the facts from being seen. Thanks for the amen.

My Best to You and Yours,

Ed

Regarding "Wouldn't BS" 22.Nov.2004 11:15

Ed Ward, MD

Combating facts with "Wouldn't, What if's and maybes".

Mass media coverup and the corporate buzzsaw that comes after reporters posting facts instead of "Wouldn't BS".

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/11/304129.shtml

Ed Ward, MD,
Founder, LA-CRC,  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LA-CRC/
Founder, LSMP,  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LSMP/
edward19(at)cox.net (at) = @ (for the @ crawlers) my email.
 http://thepriceofliberty.org/ward.htm
 https://www.quickbase.com/db/99r7qj9f?redmsg=E-mail+sent+to+HaversineConsulting (Class action lawsuit state info)
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/louisianacivilrightscouncil/ (LA state info)
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LA-CRC/ [Louisiana Civil Rights Council Message Board]
Learn about your Family and Individual Constitutional Rights and this governments Constitutional Restrictions and Vote.
 link to www.google.com

FAIR USE NOTICE This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Great film clip 22.Nov.2004 15:31

reader

It bears repeating, I spoke with a Pentagon insider right after the Pentagon bombing. She affirmed it was an inside job and it was not an airline that hit the Pentagon, as has been well documented. As for waiting for the perpetrators to tell the American people on their mind control box or their propaganda sheets, it will not happen.

Why would they do that? 22.Nov.2004 17:27

Messenger

This is a hard one to figure, until you remember that the Wolfowitz doctrine written in '93, stated the need for a "major attack" against the
US. The morning of 9/11 there was a fifth plane which was grounded by the
FAA that had five other terrorists on board....they couldn't complete their mission. With the one going down in Penns., it sorta looks like the masterminds wanted that strike on the Pentagon - for some reason.

For crying out loud. . . 22.Nov.2004 18:25

Hal E. Burton

Yeah, I'm a facist. Just check my prior posts. You'll see.

Look, this resorts to "ad hominem" without any real response.

Went to the website via one I think is safer (thanks for the alternate link).

A. Eyewitnesses are reliably unreliable. Truly. Don't think so? Ask the folks at work what you wore to work yesterday. . .

B. Evidence of plane wreckage is not so hard to find; do a Google search and you'll see some. . .

C. Presumption of just "how" a plane should wreck is pretty stupid on the face of it.

The Occam's razor question remains unanswered. Where did the plane go? Where are the passengers? The notions of this film ADD an element -- a mystery missle. That's not sound logic folks. It raises questions -- whose missle? who fired it? where's the plane? where are the passengers? who is behind this plot?

C'mon, people! There are real problems in the world. This ISN'T one of them. In fact, it may be a deflection from Diebold's cramming of ballot boxes!

Hey, what if conspirators decided to make their plots really lame and stupid. . .? What would they look like then?

As Joe Hill said, "Good luck to all of you."

Close to, if not my last, post to this stupid website. . .

so, why not just settle the matter? 22.Nov.2004 19:02

razing occam

Just FOIA the videos that were confiscated and prove to the world that it really was flight 77. Shouldn't be too hard. If the attacks were carried out as the government has alleged there would be no reason to keep those tapes secret as they would clearly prove the point and discredit the "conspiracy theorists."

I would also have to say there are no more elements in any other theories as there are in the "official" theory. It's just a question of whose authority you believe and which facts you accept and which facts you do not. In other words, it's merely a question of faith. Either you have faith in the official story, despite the glaring flaws, or you do not and are searching for an explanation that makes more sense. I'm not going to spend time investigating what happened to the pentagon because I really don't care one way or the other but if others feel compelled to ask those questions they should follow their own path.

Where did the plane go? 22.Nov.2004 22:10

N. Ron

Hal E. Burton asks where the plane went. Who knows? Why not ask the people that claim that it hit the Pentagon? One does not have to explain where the plane actually went in order to accept that it did not hit the Pentagon. They are two different issues. If I falsely claim that you assaulted me and stole my wallet, do you have to explain where my wallet actually is in order to prove yourself innocent?

Yup. You're right. I'm wrong. 23.Nov.2004 08:43

Hal E. Burton

No, you win. . .

You DON'T have to prove what happened to a 757 for your missle theory to be true.

But doesn't it beg the question. . .

Why aren't the family members of the approximately 180 passengers on that flight contacting 60 Minutes and raising a stink about how their loved ones didn't show up? Wouldn't you be a bit upset when you waited at the airport and your son, daughter, father, mother, spouse didn't show up?

That is the beauty of Occam -- you raise additional questions with your misguided theory -- and thereby prove its falsity.

Logic 101, folks. . .

hushmoney issue is ignored , & how they "had to" sign away rights--put that in 23.Nov.2004 18:10

me

another point, at least in reference to getting money when one is a "9-11 family victim": one signs away one's rights for suing the Bush Administration for anything--to get the money.

The only one so far who has refused such a settlement of hushmoney is the widow Mariani.

Plus, there are so few very brave people in the United States of Cowardice that is it hardly surprising outside of the few 9-11 family victims in the 7 billion dollar lawsuit, and the other Mariani lawsuit (another 9-11 family member victim) regarding 9-11 Bush complicity.




1.

Title: BUSH PUNISHES MARIANI for RICO suit: 9-11 widow fights estate challenge....linked to Bush
Author: repost
Date: 2004.09.28 11:21
Description: An attorney employed by THE GREENBERG TRAURIG law firm with multiple ties to President Bush met with a 9-11 widow's step-daughter prior to her commencement of an estate takeover attempt which could limit Ms. Mariani's future financial and thus legal options as she seeks to hold Mr. Bush and others accountable in her multi billion dollar RICO suit against the Bush regime for organizing and perpetrating 9-11 ... [A]n estate challenge filed more than a year ago by Mariani's step-daughter Lauren Peters, ***who met with attorney Daniel Bakinowski in the Boston office of Greenberg Traurig--a Miami-based firm with several close links to both President George W. Bush and his brother, Florida Governor Jeb Bush.*** THE GREENBERG TRAURIG law firm: --- [1] represented President Bush in the Bush-Gore 2000 Florida election vote recount, --- [2] personally represents Governor Jeb Bush, --- [3] hired son of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on election day 2000--after which Justice Scalia cast one of the 5 to 4 deciding votes which placed Bush in presidency, --- [4] Miami-headquartered firm partially funded/sponsored delegation to Israel by House-Senate Armed Services Committee members and government contractors to witnes and be briefed on interrogation resistance procedures and torture techniques....One of lobbyists joining them to Israel included Jack London, CEO, CACI Int'l Inc., firm implicated in outsourced Iraqi torture at Abu Ghraib prison, --- [5] firm has prominent administrative positions in Massachusetts 9/11 Fund which also involves Bush family banking house Brown Brothers Harriman, --- [6] one appointed as General Counsel of the Department of the Navy and its Office of Naval Intelligence just 90 days before the attacks [MORE BELOW, this is a big link IN THE 9-11 NETWORK]...
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/298412.shtml

2.

Title: 9-11 Widow Ellen Mariani filed RICO Act suit against BushCo - Interviewed by Alex Jones
Author: 0-2
Date: 2003.12.10 11:28
Description: Ellen Mariani and her atty Phil Berg w/ Alex Jones; the law suit has generated extensive coverage internationally but as you'd expect, the US media is nearly mute
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/276228.shtml

3.

Title: Fri. 5/21 edition of Democracy Now! : Ellen Mariani & David Ray Griffin with Amy Goodman
Author: Mel R.
Date: 2004.05.20 04:59
Description: Democracy Now! is viewed locally on cable access and the internet. On the radio on KPSU-fm (Portland St. only) and KAOS (Olympia, WA)
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/05/288834.shtml

4.

Title: 9/11 Widow Sues Bush & Co.
Author: look
Date: 2003.12.05 12:49
Description: Ellen Mariani has sued Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, etc under a Civil RICO Act
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/276032.shtml

This may confirm your work 25.Mar.2006 16:32

The Links

 http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread200580/pg1 showing an engine, quickly removed from the area.