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9.11 investigation

WTC Collapse: A rebuttal to the NIST report

The following letter was sent today by Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Laboratories to Frank Gayle of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Underwriters Laboratories is the company that certified the steel componets used in the constuction of the World Trade Center towers. The information in this letter is of great importance.
Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year. I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.

There continues to be a number of "experts" making public claims about how the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at 2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to collapse is the airplane fuel... burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The steel in that five-floor area melts." Additionally, the newspaper that quotes him says "Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center collapse support Brown's theory."

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.

The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear things up (3), and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by the Associated Press (4), in which you were ready to "rule out weak steel as a contributing factor in the collapse." The evaluation of paint deformation and spheroidization seem very straightforward, and you noted that the samples available were adequate for the investigation. Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation.

However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings, as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the building's steel core to "soften and buckle." (5) Additionally this summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250C." To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures need to be above1100C (6). However, this new summary report suggests that much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.

This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.

There is no question that the events of 9/11 are the emotional driving force behind the War on Terror. And the issue of the WTC collapse is at the crux of the story of 9/11. My feeling is that your metallurgical tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux. Either you can make sense of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly, or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global decisions based on disinformation and "chatter".

Thanks for your efforts to determine what happened on that day. You may know that there are a number of other current and former government employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth. I've copied one of these people on this message as a sign of respect and support. I believe your work could also be a nucleus of fact around which the truth, and thereby global peace and justice, can grow again. Please do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.

1.  http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/102104/coverstory.html
2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 61st edition, pg D-187
3.  http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P3MechanicalandMetAnalysisofSteel.pdf
4.  http://www.voicesofsept11.org/archive/911ic/082703.php
5.  http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACWTCStatusFINAL101904WEB2.pdf (pg 11)
6.  http://www.forging.org/FIERF/pdf/ffaaMacSleyne.pdf

Kevin Ryan

Site Manager
Environmental Health Laboratories
A Division of Underwriters Laboratories


real kind of 'heat' is on, kind of actual inquiry that MELTS Bush's fascist lies 12.Nov.2004 03:19


Thanks for the post. When this all comes out (and in my opinion it already HAS, the "official conspiracy story" is totally dead, there is only a psychological denial block to work through before it really dawns on people, and there is only a very consolidated print and television media that serves to perpetuate the lie, instead of any credibility to the belief in the lie itself anymore). There's going to be a lot of painful psychological dissociation for all Americans to work through, IN PUBLIC, IN SORROW, because many have preferred either to be willing dupes out of desperation to disguise the truth of 9-11 from themselves, or they have had suspicions, though have only been silent. Both are forms of an "underwriting complicity" that has tacitly shown support for Bush, and in support for Bush, support for more state terrorism committed by the Bush administration upon the whole world.

Other cards:


9-11 cards: The full state terror club, from little deuces to major aces
author: version1

Two of Clubs Tommy Thompson
Three of Clubs Thomas Kean
Four of Clubs David Boren
Five of Clubs Porter Goss
Six of Clubs Bob Graham
Seven of Clubs Lewis Eisenberg
Eight of Clubs Marvin Bush, pt. 1
Eight of Clubs Marvin Bush, pt. 2
Eight of Clubs Marvin Bush, pt. 3
Nine of Clubs Larry Silverstein
Ten of Clubs General Kernan/Admiral Gambastiani
Jack of Clubs General Henry Shelton
Queen of Clubs Marion Blakey
King of Clubs Cheney
Ace of Clubs George Herbert Walker Bush



HAPPY JULY 4 WEEKEND: remembering/sharing info on 4 false flag PLANES of 9-11 is patriotic
author: version2

2 of Hearts AA11
3 of Hearts UAL175
4 of Hearts AA77
5 of Hearts UAL93
6 of Hearts C-130
7 of Hearts Global Hawk [ver.2]


9-11 CONTROLLED DEMOLITION summaries: #1-WTC6, #2-WTC2, #3-WTC1, #4-WTC7, Pentagon
author: version1

8 of Hearts WTC6 (First Demolition)
9 of Hearts WTC2 (Second Demolition)
10 of Hearts WTC1 (Third Demolition)
Jack of Hearts WTC7 (Fourth Demolition)
Queen of Hearts WTCs, Reichstag Fire Sale
King of Hearts Pentagon


9-11 as INTERNATIONAL hit on U.S., more than mere U.S. military operation to hit itself
author: version1

7 of Hearts Global Hawk [ver.3]
Queen of Hearts Gen. Kernan & Adm. Perowne's NATO [USJ Chiefs #2 to NATO 15+yrs.]
King of Hearts Gen. Eberhart's & Myers's USSPACECOM
Ace of Hearts Gen. Eberhart's & Myers's NORAD, pt1
Ace of Hearts Gen. Eberhart's & Myers's NORAD, pt2
Ace of Hearts Gen. Eberhart's & Myers's NORAD, pt3



THE REST OF THE 9-11 SPADES: evil anthrax deuces to traitorous setters(sevens)

2 of Spades Cipro
3 of Spades Anthrax
4 of Spades Rudy Giuliani
5 of Spades Jeb Bush
6 of Spades Karl Rove
7 of Spades Colin Powell


9-11:police channel:"Woolworth Building! They're firing missiles from Woolworth Building!"
author: version1

Eight of Spades Woolworth Building


Celebrate 9-11 anniversary the right way: IDENTIFY WHO SHOULD BE IMPEACHED & WHY
author: version1

9 of Spades Warren Buffett
10 of Spades Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Myers
Jack(boot) of Spades John Ashcroft
Queen of Spades Rice, pt. 1
Queen of Spades Rice, pt. 2
Queen of Spades Rice, pt. 3
King of Spades Rumsfeld
Ace of Spades Bush
King of Clubs Cheney



Half of NYers Believe US Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and Failed To Act
author: John Zogby International Polls

New Poll -- 63% OF CANADIANS BELIEVE U.S. Had Prior Knowledge of 9/11, & did NOTHING
author: release

Germans know fascism when they see it:33% Germans under 30 think US did 9-11;68% media lie
author: reuters

On August 31, Ruppert Publicly Calls out Cheney as Grand Master Organizer of 9-11 events
author: repost
Michael Ruppert gave a groundbreaking speech at the "Commonwealth Club" in San Francisco on Tuesday, August 31. The PDF file of the speech is attached, and is downloadable at
 http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/Commonwealth.pdf (if you don't have a PDF file reader, you can download a free reader from adobe.com for Macintosh or Windows operating systems). The speech is long, but a must read for anyone interested in the future of the United States, peak oil, 9/11, the 2004 election, and related topics. There are very few journalists digging up credible new information about 9/11, but this speech -- a teaser for Ruppert's upcoming book -- is full of critical information that should be on the front page of every newspaper on the planet. It would be difficult to exaggerate the importance of this information.

NEW 9-11 video '911 in Plane Site' screened in Sacramento, CA; left audience stunned
author: repost
'911 in Plane Site' presents actual film from that fateful day and careful analysis focusing on the Pentagon and the two World Trade Center buildings. By slowing down the actual news feeds that day from networks like CNN, FOX, the BBC and others, what you see is quite different from what most people saw in "real time" that day. Live footage from the Pentagon and what was missed by most because of the smoke and confusion was captured up close by the media. Following the showing, a retired vet remarked, "How did we miss this all this time? I've seen media clips of the front of that building [the Pentagon] many times, but I wasn't really seeing what was there. I feel sick." '911 in Plane Site,' distributed by Power Hour Productions (866-773-9469), leaves one with many questions as demonstrated by a very upset senior citizen who requested her last name be withheld. Mary asked, "If these weren't commercial airliners, where are those flights? Where are the passengers? My, God what really happened that day?" Indeed, this seemed to be the biggest question expressed by viewers after the lights came back on, but for which there were no answers. Some viewers were visibly upset, angry and "want damn answers" from the Bush Administration. Others just walked out the door in silence.

DOWNLOAD FOR FREE 9/11 In Plane Sight: "Shocking - Thought provoking - Raises serious questions about the government's honesty in conducting the 9-11 investigation" "Absolutely awesome. This is the one September 11 video that everyone should see." SOURCE FILE CAN BE DOWNLOADED FROM THIS LINK (50 MINUTES, 17 MB): PLEASE SHARE FILM OF THESE PATRIOTS

HELLYER, Former Minister of National Defense, CANADA , goes on record about 9-11 standdown
author: repost
He compares 9-11 standdown to FDR's Pearl Harbor standdown: "There are so many questions. But, you say, what is going wrong here? Or, was there [even] something going wrong [at all]? How much did they actually know? And you get into very deep territory because it's the same kind of thing as we saw with [the allowances and baiting for the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor....[to launch the U.S. into WWII]."

EU Parliamentarian Supports 9-11 Truth Movement, Calls for WORLDWIDE 9-11 Inquiry
author: letsroll911.com
We have watched with alarm that the sad and tragic events of 9-11 (11 September, 2001) have resulted in two wars and a global rollback in civil liberties....I submit to you that BEFORE any more wars are launched or liberties are lost in the name of the war on terror launched by the Bush Administration after 9-11 . . . a "full international inquiry" into the events leading up to and on 9-11 be held...many, including the 9-11 Family Steering Committee (U.S.), are growing increasingly frustrated with the stunning lack of hard questions for witnesses appearing before the 9-11 Commission. Until these hard questions are asked and fully answered . . . we should refuse more wars, and renounce reduced liberty worldwide in the name of 9-11 and it's resultant war on terror. A few of these questions are:....

The German Minister Von Bülow Interview on 9-11: Segments From Lenny Bloom's Interview
author: repost
FYI, From 2002, Former German Minister Von Bülow has been publicly talking--about how transparent this coup and war attempt is in the USA. Take it from a German: by the 21st century they are a bit immune to fascist manipulation and the politics of hate. Learn something America. "The Means, Motive and Opportunities of the 9-11 Crime is the right place to start." "If what I say is right, the whole U.S. government should end up behind bars." - Andreas von Bülow Head of German Intel Agency BND (Germany's CIA)

Found: The 911 "Stand Down Order"?
author: Dire Wolf
Jim Hoffman has discovered a document which I believe may be very important to the 911 skeptic movement. This document superseded earlier DOD procedures for dealing with hijacked aircraft, and it requires that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is personally responsible for issuing intercept orders. Commanders in the field are stripped of all authority to act. This amazing order came from S.A. Fry (Vice Admiral, US Navy and Director, Joint Staff) so it appears to me that responsibility for the US armed forces "Failure to Respond" rests directly with Fry for issuing this instruction, as well as with Donald Rumsfeld for failing to execute his responsibility to issue orders in a timely fashion.
it is very interesting that the document states what types of items they want the only Pentagon to decide about shooting down...or leaving up.... This Pentagon document was sent out explicitly to keep people from shooting down other objects from the military. Specifically I note that they put UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLES (UAV)s, like the Global Hawk! -- the likely candidate for the actual hit on the Pentagon wall--and REMOTELY CONTROLLED VEHICLES (like e-hijacked planes) right up on the top of the list! quote: "Destruction of Derelict Airborne Objects. Derelict airborne objects (for example, unmanned free balloons, moored balloons or kites, unmanned non-nuclear rockets or missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) or remotely operated vehicles (ROV)) are a potential threat to public safety. Military personnel may, upon request, be required to track and destroy such objects. The NMCC is the focal point for any requests for DOD assistance in tracking and destroying derelict airborne objects. With the exception of immediate responses as authorized by referenced, the NMCC will forward all requests for such assistance to the Secretary of Defense [RUMSFELD] for approval.

VIDEO: 9-11,1991 & 9-11,2001: 'New World Order' goals mentioned by Bush Sr. & Gary Hart
author: web

getBush 25.03.2004 03:01
Summary of Massive Criminality of Bush Administration: The 41 Pending Court Suits/Crimes,are more? [now, even more than 41]

Melts? 12.Nov.2004 04:58

Mike stepbystpefarm <a> mtdata.com

The references to steel MELTING makes both this article and the one it refers to highly suspicous.

Any competent "materials" engineers would know that the issue would not be steel literally melting but reaching the much lower temperatures sufficient to anneal it. Watch any blacksmith at work. Hit a piece of cold iron and the hammer mainly bounces off. Heat that iron until it glows (dim red is about 1200F, yellow about 1800F) and hit it now and if flows under the impact of the hammer.

Or take a non ferrous metal like copper. Heat that to say 1300-1400F and let it cool. Copper STAYS annealed after heating (if cooled, iron/steel rehardens). Hit it and it flows until after a few blows it has worked hardened (lost the property of being annealed).

The point is, steel heated to its annealing temperature has little strength. Subject to its normal design load, it will pull like taffy if under tension or buckle like wet spaghetti if under compression. That's how those beams were made in the first place. The steel wasn't melted and cast! It was simply heated red hot to anneal it and then forced between shaping rollers and squeezed into the desired shape.

My own suspicions are the cause of the failure is the new beam insulation materials. This was the first "impact followed by fire" disaster where the "post asbestos" insulation materials were used. The insulation, of course, is intended to provide enough time for fire fighters to get the fires out before the beams anneal. The old asbestos plasters had a certain amount of tensile stregth from the fibres (asbestos as a fibrous mineral) and even after you smash asbestos plaster with a hammer it mainly stays in p;lace (wear protective gear during asbestos plaster removal). The new materials might be too brittle. We'll know if this was the cause if we see the formulations for beam insulation changing to include something fibrous (an "e" glass material?)

Wrong Mike 12.Nov.2004 08:00


>>"The references to steel MELTING makes both this article and the one it refers to highly suspicous."

Obviously you didn't read the letter. Go back and read it.

He is concerned about the misrepresentation of the melting point of steel AS WELL AS the fraudulent claims in the NIST report about the SOFTENING of steel.

You are likely not an metals engineer, Mike, and if I correctly recall, your typical goal of posting in Indymedias is to further the Zionist agenda in Israel.

steel is red herring, seismic evidence BEFORE collapse is issue... 12.Nov.2004 08:36


If you look closely, there is a little red herring swimming in the picture, called "the steel issue," its right at the top of the 2.3 seismic shock that leveled the buildings from the basement up, instead of from the planes down.

Search back in the 911 thread. For much more.

The only way the steel enters into it...is how they illegally removed it before analysis to disguise the damange. However, some remained which either was seen to have some sort of "vaporization" (WTC7), or forms of "chemical burns" (WTC1 or WTC2).

Steel is NOT a red herring so go peddle the nonsense elsewhere 12.Nov.2004 14:08


The issue of the steel is NOT a red herring - Jesus this site is buried in crackpots / agents.

The seismic spikes issue is like the PODS: they are a circle jerk of nonsense that leads nowhere and have little or nothing to contribute to blowing the cover on this scam. They are a diversion that people who are mentally unstable will tend to focus on.

For a good debunking of crap like pods, look here:


Seismic spikes are mentioned here:

The American Free Press
This site broke several stories about the 9/11 coverup an in particular the treatment of the WTC site. It was also the source of several errors such as the Building 6 explosion myth and the idea that seismic spikes preceded the collapses of the Twin Towers. AFP promotes and is run from the same office as Barnes Review, a Holocaust revision publication that suggests Alolf Hitler should have recieved the Nobel Peace Prize.

to reader 12.Nov.2004 15:04


"Jesus this site is buried in crackpots / agents."

Not enough I guess. Better call in reinforcements because your little two-link two-step ad hominem is very stale. Someone (likely you) posted exactly the same thing about 80 times already. Who's the troll, "reader"? Vary your technique: I (or a silent observer) could be a double agent sent here to keep an eye on your capacity to deal rationally and fluidly with keep the facts of 9-11 down.

Crackpot/agents? Mentioned as a group? Watch out for those Freudian slips.

Someone (likely you) posted exactly the same thing about 80 times already 15.Nov.2004 13:38


Sorry to inform you, but I don't post anything 80 times. I post once, that's it.

The first time I noticed the crap creeping in on this site was during the Dean campaign when robotic postings were being put up constantly.

It's a testament to the importance of this site.

Show me the relevance and the 'evidence' that there is any significant meaning at all to the 'spikes,' and I'll support it. But the fact is, there simply isn't. Just like the other nonsense issues of pods, holograms, missiles, etc.