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Cascadia Seceeds

then what? It strikes me as something extremely hopeful, but how do we make this happen.
We certainly have the resources to self-sustain. What about the people that will inevitably say "yay, we're liberated, now john kerry can be our president"? Would it be wrong to smash those people for their ignorance? Could we get enough of cascadia on board for an anarchist or at least anarcho-syndicalist land? How would we go about it? I always picture a letter sent at the same time to the portland police department, the white house, and vera katz (maybe potter now) that says they've got a week to get out of cascadia and never return or a) We will treat you as an outsider to our community, including no access to the food we farm. or b) we kill you. a or b would depend on the kind of revolution most supported. Also, it's apparant that the corporations haven't recieved a letter and are still kicking it in cascadia. How do we get them to leave? Withhold our business? More violence?

I'd just like to know how other people are invisioning this. We should definitely meet to discuss this sometime.
the first steps 05.Nov.2004 11:19

cynic carpe_viam@hotmail.com

Just my opinion... first steps are to establish viability by building the social infrastructure of a new community. You do not go out and ask people to vote on nothing more than a vague notion of "Cascadia." What you / we need to do is bring together a lot of groups already in existence - Food Not Bombs, etc. - and establish a working model that exists and survives OUTSIDE the existing power structure. Demonstrate how we will feed, support and govern ourselves with as little dependence on the state/local government as possible, without WalMart and SickDonald's. Use that model to bring in more people who are philosophically on our side, but who are skeptical about intent and ability. Grow the movement from within. Show people that there is a place at the table for all, not just for those who identify themselves as radical activists. You have to create a safe place where people's needs are going to be met before asking them to jump into a new enterprise. Build the net, and people will walk the tightrope.

geopolitics 05.Nov.2004 13:05

Alexandros of Cascadia

no we do not take Kerry as president! We need annexation to Canada for now! Why you may ask? Because it would be diplomatically and geopolitically difficult for the Bush Fascists to launch a civil war on and former region that is part of a fellow NATO member (infact other NATO allies may help stop potential attacks from the Amerikans). We join Canada for now! And either Cascadian "values" and economy will merge with British Columbian as a dominate force in Canada. If that does not work out in some decades we then have a friendly parting of the ways with lots of graditude and deep respect for the rest of Canada.

What we have now is lots of disenfranchised voters with lots of energy and lots of hopes smashed. The anger will increase as we hear more Diebold "mishaps". We need this weekend to spam the Hell out of every list-serv, every blog and any other medium that we are wired into with "Cascadia NEEDS out of Fascist Amerika!!!" If we hesitate, if we listen to dismissive comments from the Fascists and those claiming to be "moderates" like "get on with it" or "it will take time" or "we need to heal" then the Fascists and the corporate media will win ... they will regroup and awake out of their gloating smirks. Here look at it this way: we are in a burning house holding children ... do we ponder how the fire started; do we tell the children hey at least we have a warm place ... OR do we (collectively, quickly and calmly) take our children out the exit!

Cynic, you're absolutely right... 05.Nov.2004 14:02


A big problem with society today is that the means of personal freedom- such as owning your own land, growing your own food, producing your own power- are so removed from our mainstream values. These things are seen often times as chains or restrictions on personal movement rather than keys to freedom.

I'm starting a garden as soon as the season changes- I'm not up financially for setting up a garden in the wintertime, so I'm going to start in the summer. I know its dirt cheap, but I don't have the dirt to spare quite yet. Still, soon, everything will be up and running, and there'll be a small amount of food I didn't have to pay anyone for- and didn't have to work for anyone else to get, only myself.

I think people need to pick up important basic skills, as well- such as repairing their own clothing, and making things last longer- as well as get into an ethos and a culture of buying used things. Not just for the environment, but much more just to disconnect from corporate mass-produced culture. As well as, in our turbulent times, survival and navigation skills, possibly personal defense, and other things.

If we stop supporting the corporates, they stop running. Thereupon, if possible, don't put your money in a bank- that's where the banks make money. If you can, make money with your money the way they do- by investing in things that are important to you, such as a small business, or buying and selling your own stuff. Or keep it under your bed. Or buy gold. Instead of relying on interest to squeak by, we need to organize to increase minimum wages- small scale changes for large scale effects. Once everyone is better funded, more self sufficient, more internally connected- by communicating, by being aware of things like purposeful divisive attempts on the part of large corporations to break people up and seperate them ideologically and socially- then more can be done.

With the rise in personal power, people can begin to work on producing things that they actually need. As recycling and repair of personal possessions, and building things to last becomes more important, and "value economics" gets trashed as the corpy b.s. that it actually is (planned obsolescence etc), it becomes then more important to focus on modularity- stuff that, even though each thing is different, is built up from the same parts- so that a nut is a nut is a nut, and that's the end of the story. It used to be that it was easy to repair your car, but that's less so now as the increasing competition between car companies has caused the big ones to decide that differentiating their parts as much as possible was an important economic strategy to keep money flowing directly to them instead of dithering out all over the field- the larger car companies no longer wanted to, as they saw it, "give charity" to the smaller ones... but if parts that *serve the same function* can be used interchangeably, then we all benefit.

Modularity is just one piece of the puzzle, though- a focus on self-repairing, self-maintaining "organic" cycles- such as permaculture principles in food production, where waste products are recycled back into the system, or even someday self-repairing machinery- things with passive (non-power-consuming) damage sensing mechanisms such as piezoelectric crystals (to detect bending) or thermocouples (two dissimilar wires joined at both ends- to detect heating) as well as expert system hierarchies that describe the typical structure of devices, so that damaged modules can be removed and replaced- will someday, I hope, augment the recycling and production processes, leading to things that sustain not just for a hundred years, as things that are built well, but for thousands- as things that are built extremely well. In that vein, it should eventually be possible to reduce the labor which sustains society to a background activity, accomplishable by a small corps of volunteers.

That and a focus on information- preservation of information, sharing of information, redundant information storage- the gutenberg project as the city library embedded in the city itself, and universally avaiable- ie, a free college level education available to all who are motivated enough to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps- is important as well.

Other important things to change in the future, I think- transportation: we should switch to maglev trains for 99% of transportation, and electrically powered or otherwise completely non-polluting vehicles, but in the intermediate future, I think biodesel is quite competitive. education: I think software and computer programs will play an important role in education, but of course we also need better educated teachers, and a more grassroots dedication to sharing and preserving our knowledge *as a people*. power: we need to switch to green power and other renewable resources. infrastructure: we need to use space more wisely, not only building cities more densely so as to fully take advantage of three dimensional space and stop destroying the environment, but build them in such a way as to decrease the stresses of living closely- by focusing, for example, less on producing results *faster* and more on producing results *at precisely the rate that is best for people*- ie, we need to switch to some kind of a noncompetitive system of gaining our ends, to which end I think education is the key. I could go on talking forever and ever- there are many, many changes, that if made, improve our welfare rather than running it into the ground. And it is up to people to develop the capacity to get there- to get to the real future, not this shoddy plastic thing the corporate bastards keep shoving down our throats.

These are just some of the things that we'll need to think about once we head over the horizon- do we want to do things the old, stupid, stumbling, wasteful, inneficient way, or do we want to see what happens when we *really* begin to empower people? Whatever way we choose to do things in the future, however, the important thing is that, as cynic said, we all *network* and share information, resources, etc etc- and create a viable counterculture that can exist on its own, and this step is definitely a precursor to any declaration of revolution. While I'd like to see us step away from the grasp of the U.S. of A as much as many of you, I fear the bloodshed and consequences that seriously pursuing such a route *directly* in the immediate future would take.

The largest failure of the sixties and seventies was disorganization and disunity- people need to work together to bridge our differences and build strength, build independance, and look forward. If they don't have a clear vision of where they want to go, they're not going to work together- we need to establish a dialogue about who we are, what our identity should be, where we are going, and most importantly, how we intend to get there. We need patience, as well as courage, and a knowledge of when patience is not enough and it is time to move forward. We each make these decisions ourselves, so it makes it hard to achieve consistency and strength in our numbers- while I am against authoritarian hierarchies, I do believe in the power of reason and clarity to achieve results, so long as there is an effort, not to force ideas on one another, but to explain ourselves, and do so in a way that we are not misrepresented.

I have a tendency to ramble on, so it is my hope that I have been somewhat clear in what I have just said- thank you for your patience in reading this.


Republic of Cascadia 05.Nov.2004 14:03


Another site for info about getting out of fascist America and for more Democracy in Cascadia FYI:

Ecotopia, not Canada 05.Nov.2004 14:05

Wild Green

Ecotopia, not Canada!

Pacificans are too free-spirited to organize around secession only to join Canada. Really Canada ain't much different than the U.S.

Secession, not Canadian Assimilation.

If I wanted to be a Canadian, I would go to Canada.

Ecotopia, not Canada 05.Nov.2004 15:04

Alexandros of Cascadia

I agree ultimately an independant Ecotopia or Cascadia, but we need to think right now of potential defence by staying in a NATO country that is currently not happy with Fascist Amerika. This should be also approached as "Uniting Cascadia!" which stretches south into Northern California and north to the pandhandle of Alaska (which includes British Columbia). My idea is a working alliance, so to speak, with Washington, Oregon and Northern California (if they choose) as having an unique place with in a new Canada. My suggestion is that it would be a looser version of Nunavut.. more as an autonomous region for awhile as we (the world) begins to deal with Mr Bush and his kind.


but how to communicate? 05.Nov.2004 15:05

cynic carpe_viam@hotmail.com


Your comments are well thought and positive, but how does one continue a dialogue if one has no email address or other means of communication? :-)

but how to communicate? 05.Nov.2004 15:28

Alexandros of Cascadia

Well I would talk via phone or over coffee or at the local hang outs that family or friends meet. Talk talk talk ... it is what humans do best and this time it will not be meaningless chatter but with intent to enlighten. Ask your friend or family member to repeat three times out loud (and feel free to laugh and giggle with them of doing this) "I am a Cascadian" ... "now does that sound good?"

What we have now is lots of disenfranchised voters with lots of energy
and lots of hopes smashed. The anger will increase as we hear more
Diebold "mishaps". We need this weekend to spam the Hell out of every
list-serv, every blog and any other medium that we are wired into with
"Cascadia NEEDS out of Fascist Amerika!!!" If we hesitate, if we
listen to dismissive comments from the Fascists and those claiming to
be "moderates" like "get on with it" or "it will take time" or "we
need to heal" then the Fascists and the corporate media will win ...
they will regroup and awake out of their gloating smirks. Here look at
it this way: we are in a burning house holding children ... do we
ponder how the fire started; do we tell the children hey at least we
have a warm place ... OR do we (collectively, quickly and calmly) take
our children out the exit!

here is my simple idea .. we want "Pacific NorthWesterners" as well as
the other "blue" states to be smothered in this new meme called
Cascadia. We want everyone to at least read the words "I am a
Cascadian" and ideally same them out loud to themselves three times.
We want people on Monday to go to work or where ever and only talk of
"Secession" or Annexation. We need at every coffee shop, at every
office water cooler, at every grocery store, at every bookstore, at
every school, at every bus stop, on every bus, on every caller radio
program, at every cafe and where ever people meet to talk of Cascadia,
Secession and a stolen election and making us Canada! We NEED to spam
and spread this everywhere.

And though some people in the past opposed an "anti-Amerikan" I still
maintain that using preexisting symbols or memes to piggy-back ideas
are excellent. My friend Athena came up with the idea of using the
Amerika flag upside down with painted across it "Free Cascadia" with
the "dia" part in the blue field. Her suggestion is to get dozens of
American flag stickers and alter them to "Dia in the Sky" and plaster
all of Oregon, Washington and Califiornia with them. Ofcourse that is
Athena's idea.


... what I meant 05.Nov.2004 16:22

cynic carpe_viam@hotmail.com

Thanks, alexandros. :-)

But what I meant was, literally, how I could communicate with the original poster, as there was no contact info - email, etc., to continue this conversation.

(anyone who doesn't want to post their email here can just email me directly)

i'm thinkin' 05.Nov.2004 17:34

some kid

of arranging a time when the entirety of portlanders can get together and find out if we're ready for an independant Cascadia (i myself aspire to more than switching dictators to a better one, hence the not voting for kerry). The two things hindering me are lack of location (I live in a dorm, if we want 8 people talking about cascadia, you're more than welcome, but beyond that we need somewhere else) and indymedia has posted that they're arranging a time when we can discuss the legal ramifications of secession. I don't want to crap on their parade.

what we need to do this coming week 05.Nov.2004 20:36

Alexandros of Cascadia

what we must do:

1.) We MUST this weekend bring the idea of Cascadia and breaking off from Fascist Amerika to consciousness of the general population and by Monday have it be the only conversation in all of Cascadia. Also we must bring the fact that the election was a farce (print out artcles or give websites about this like blackboxvoting.org) and this MUST be part of this dialogue of Cascadia! I would recommend the same if I was in the other "blue" states for their awakening of regional identity separate from Bush's Amerika. This should be done with massive "spamming" and like ACT (American Coming Together.. and if any are reading this well .. you have lists of democrats now who we can bet are disenfranchised :))) I would recommend to the less shy to feel free to talk to your neighbors or that person in the parking lot with a Kerry bumper sticker (this ofcourse should not be limited to democrats, but right now they are more visible). Our goal is simple in this part "To get it to the forefront of every conversation". The goal is the create critical mass. And if you are inclined to put up sighs or wave (any of the Cascadian flags) or create pamplets or print out leaflets talking of Diebold, secession, Cascadia and Cascadian awakening or get on radio talk shows or whatever. The goal is dialogue, awareness, education, generating a new paradigm.. an new group identity with a new future! If this works then Monday even the sold out local media will have to mention it, because everyone will have to talk of it.


a.) becareful of dismissive comments like "it will never work" or "you are just have sour grapes" or any the other Phucting dismissive onliners comments that the sheeple spit out. Do not let it down and ignore the jerk and continue on as if the jerk just passed gas.

b.) the Fascist might orchastrate a "national" crisis like a terror alert or even a terrorist act which MUST NOT stop this conversation of Cascadia, secession and election fraud. If this happens the corporate media and authorative figures will make lots of appeals about "healing the nation". They will dismiss any movement to liberate us from the fascists as small and trivial. news personalities will make light of Cascadia or joke that they (we) are wackos. If any think is even in the corporate media the overly paid fascist mouth-pieces (we call news reporters) will end the story with dismissive comments or laughter.

2.) we need a time and place (while there is the energy and motivation... maybe Friday) to have people gather. My idea it a event. here is my suggestion "the All Bush flip off". This must be done through out all Cascadia from Bellingham to San Fransisco and it must be done at the same time. For convience I will use Portland as a example ... Cascadian or disenfranchised Portlanders (remember all the Kerry supporters on Portland's Waterfront) go to either the Waterfront or Pioneer Square and put up a image of Mr Bush (maybe Cheney too) and in one big massive group give them "the finger"! And take pictures from the images perspective of all gathered flipping the Fascists off and send it to the White House. The goal of this is NOT just to give them the collective "finger", but the real goal is to get people physically together to talk of Cascadia, Cascadians and our future! At the same time this should happen in other communities.

From this we can expnd to bring in more Cascadians and eventually we shall march down to Salem or Olympia (for San Fransisco .. I guess you declare yourself the new administrative seat of South Cascadia) and we demand secession NOW!

Before such an event happens we need to bring the police and leaders into our movement. We MUST find out issues that the police and state employees have against the Fascists.. and they do whether they recognize it or not. We need to teach them of the budget cuts, union busting, veteran cuts, issues related to them not being able to effectively do their jobs. We MUST appeal to them as fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers who have the same concerns as all of us do over education, safety, environment, cost of living and so on and so on.


a.) do not let the professional politicians nor charasmatic public figures usurp OUR movement. Especially DO NOT LET some dump as democrat politician tell us that we must "heal" our community or "this will take time" or "I promise you this...." or "I am with you..." ... this MUST be the PEOPLES movement!!! not a time for local celeberties... infact if you see someone who is a public figure look beyond them, smile and go hug the unrelated person behind him or her. I hate how these personalities (remember we are counted as nobodies until they need your vote or buy their product) steal the lime light of the people, of causes, of public attention. We have no time for them and no need for them. Now if they come to be a "nobody" like the rest of us and are honestly there to flip off Fascism and to awaken Cascadia.. then they have my blessings.. and I hope yours too.

gradually? 05.Nov.2004 20:38


I think that seccession is the most viable strategy for the movement as well -- the hard thing, like anything else, is getting enough people on board and focused on making it happen. It's simpler to rally people against something than to rally someone for something, especially something new and different.

While I consider myself strongly against the national political system, I think voting -- for referendums and candidates which assist in a secessionary process -- is actually a viable tactic for acheiving independence from the US empire. If we can vote or get represenatitives to exclude ourselves - as portland or even as a Neighborhood in portland - from the patriot act, drug laws, federal taxes, anti-gay marriage laws, etc. we can go a long way.

Likewise, changing local laws to allow greater direct democracy -- allowing local city wide or neighborhood wide votes on a wide variety of things. Getting a city charter that claims it right to assert independence from federal laws if the local population approve it - things like this.

cascadia forest cooperative boots out timber corporations 05.Nov.2004 23:05


Since most of Cascadia's forests are being logged by short term profit focused corporations that take money out of the community and leave behind a decimated clear cut barren wasteland, one of the goals of Cascadians could be to reclaim our rights to manage our forests. This doesn't imply property ownership, just stewardship as neighbors/resident forest caretakers..

Here is some info from a landowner cooperative in Mass;


Massachusetts Woodlands Cooperative is a forest landowner management, processing and marketing cooperative organized by and on behalf of forest landowners in western Massachusetts. The mission of the Cooperative is to maintain the environment and character of western Massachusetts through the protection, enhancement and careful economic development of one of the region's most plentiful resources, the forest. The work of the cooperative is based on specific values, guided by clear principles, and directed toward business goals identified and supported by its membership.



The following values and beliefs form the justification for cooperative activities and the standard by which they will be evaluated:

* Stewardship of the forest is the responsibility of all cooperative members.

* Sustainable forestry includes attention to all aspects of ecosystem health (tree and plant quality, water quality, wildlife habitat, aesthetics, etc.).

* Effective management of forest resources will create a sustained flow of forest benefits including timber, wildlife, clean water, aesthetics, and recreation.

The cooperative will strengthen the local economy by maximizing the economic return to landowners and using local businesses whenever possible.

* The establishment of a landowner cooperative will improve forestry standards in western Massachusetts.

* Forestry standards will be further enhanced by the organization's involvement with green certification.

* Individual landowner income from forest products will increase as a result of their participation in the cooperative.

* Educational activities sponsored by the cooperative will assist members and others in acquiring knowledge and understanding of sustainable forestry practices and this will improve privately owned woodlands. "

The use of the term "resource" is something that could be adjusted, we could think of the forests as our home and providers. People can discuss the details of selective harvest, zero-cut, or any other sustainable method that doesn't involve the current destruction being done by the timber corporations. The conversation needs to occur without the ongoing occupation of the forests by the corporate raiders. The question is, how do we encourage corporations like Sierra Pacific, Maxxam, Roseburg, Boise-Cascade, Weyerhauser, etc. to pack up and leave?

good 21.Nov.2004 13:23


Good ideas here, and yes this MUST be a people's movement.
Although I must voice concern over bringing the police etc. into OUR movement... I suppose it would be the helpfull thing to do, but most of those people are FUCKING NUTS! I don't want to work along side Jason Serry or old Krueger, or any other of those masochistic, sexist, racist ass-holes who get a rush out of cuasing people pain.
I understand there are a lot of people who took that job because it's one of those working class, puts food on the table kind of things, but I'm NOT going to build a community with the woman or man who smashed my face in, or peper sprayed my kids, or trampled us with thier horse, or hastled me for standing on the sidewalk, or gave me a ticket cause' I had a bike, etc. These people have SERIOUS MENTAL PROBLEMS... and so does anyone else who is willing to give thier lives to Amerikkka.
I feel more like dissarming them and possibly expelling them from "cascadia" (This goes for enlisted folks as well) would be more productive, while I feel that welcoming any of them who realize the error of thier ways and decide to de-colonize thier minds, to work angainst oppression, would not be inapropriate. As long as we make everyone well aware of thier crimes, like sex offenders now, so we can watch them for signs or left over fascism.
And no communists, either. In EVERY SINGLE of thier revolutions, it was the ANARCHISTS who were first to be slaughtered, and you can bet they'd try it again! That's not o.k.

Maybe start with a few Portland neighborhoods... 21.Nov.2004 20:37


Just thinking out loud here....maybe we could start with a few neighborhoods seceding. If we're going to do this geographically, it might be hard to get everyone in town to go along with it, and even harder to get everyone in the state to join in. I'm thinking the zip codes most likely to secede might be parts of SE and NE PDX- 97202 (People's Co-op, Red & Black, Seven Corners area), 97214 (Belmont/Hawthorne area), 97211 (Alberta area), 97218 (Cully), and maybe a few other parts of town. I was looking at the Multnomah County website to see which parts of town had the most Green Party, Socialist and Kucinich voters, which seem to be these areas.

Or, might there be a way for individuals or individual households/families to secede, so that the geography didn't matter so much? (Trying to figure out how this could work, because I'd really like to see it work!)

Well... 22.Nov.2004 11:23


Some folks have already beat you to it, Bear. There are a couple groups working in and around that area for sustainable autonomy, though maybe not for secesion directly, but just because it works better. (And later to build revolutionary dual power...) However, these are non-political, and non-hierarchical, so as to support people instead of one man's ideology or a party line.


How About The Christiania Model 04.Dec.2004 18:12


Has anyone had a look at Christiania in Denmark? It's an independent city within the city limits of Copenhagen.