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No words are needed from the author. Post your comments here..........
No words are needed from the author. Post your comments here..........
but could we really run it? 03.Nov.2004 11:46

an emma

I'm thinking we'll need a bit more area to sustain ourselves. How about washington and Oregon? You know, I still think Northern CA should come. more thoughts?

already in the works 03.Nov.2004 12:23

Hassan i Sabbah

agreed 03.Nov.2004 12:27


Yes, definately time to start focusing on local solutions. We must never fail to cultivate a poetic vision for our future, and dedicate every action to the realization of our beautiful ambitions.

ecotopia 03.Nov.2004 13:33


This book by Ernest Callenbach...speaks wa,ca & or leaving the union..I wonder if we'll whistle dixie...

think 03.Nov.2004 13:43


you really want to secede with the fuckheads in your bioregion who voted yes on 36 and 37?

we need food, at least 03.Nov.2004 14:32


Before any succession is possible or popular, we need to address where Portlanders, Oregonians, Cascadians, whatever, get the food we eat. Right now it does not come from within the area. How do we change that? What do you all think?

(I summarize at the bottom of the post)
I have some ideas:
We need to farm the cities, food has got to be made near where the people live. Right now, food travels 1500 miles before it is eaten.

We need to save seed. Right now the average organic seed travels 5000 miles before it is planted.

The production of food has got to be in the control of the people. Right now none of us eat without playing into corporate systems: if we dont play the Repubicrat-corporation game, we starve. Im not ignoring dumpster diving here: the food in dumpsters was grown, transported, stored (attempted to be sold), discarded by corporations into dumpsters built, maintained, and emptied by corporations (or not the last bit with 100% diving). Dumpster diving is impossible without corporations, the dumpster diver depends on the existence of corporations to eat. Dumpster diving (and other corporate system cracks) free d.divers from the necessity to work for food, freedom which can be used to more truly free themselves and others from corporate necessity, slavery, and domination by building alternative support systems. Production of the food by the people, for the people.

Succession will not be a choice but a reality when the US goes the way of Argentina, when a huge government engaged in rabid activity while cutting cutting cutting revenues "taxes," outsourcing jobs and exporting our economic machinery (newly "international" corporations) in a world full of other growing economic giants. This economic collapse and failing ability of the republicrat-corporate sustenance system is compounded by the even-bigger-than-in-2000 social and geographical splits, particularly the rising tide of fundamentalism and self-prejudice directed against everyone but wealthy european-american "christians." I don't want to launch into a critique of the approaching US political landscape but its getting way conservative real quick, and apparently popularly, and such an exclusive social order is fundamentally unstable.

When this day of national collapse comes, there wont be heated debate about succession, it will be the reality because the food transportation (at least) will be incredibly strained. At that point we will have to behave _like_we_have_seceded_ in order to survive. I say "day," but it is much more likely we will see a steady decline in our ability to live happily over months, maybe years. We need to prepare for this, prepare for succession; i doubt we could do it today, or even within a couple years. 2 years from now? yeah, probably doable. if we get on the ball and take responsibility for what an independent "state" needs to exist.

Water is another huge deal, especially outside of cascadia but even here. I think housing will work itself out if people at least have food, not everyone to their mcmansion, but protection from exposure at least. Healthcare is also very important, a model of community supported healthcare is good for a variety of reasons. What would the CSH in your community look like?

Community building is very very very important in secession because any group that secedes must have cohesion in order to break away. The deeper the cohesion goes beyond mutual opposition for the parent state, the stronger, the more resilient the succeeded group will be. This means community, and community means communication, and communication means accessibility of that information.

We as indymedia users need to embrace the original operation of the IMC, that the electronic platform is simply to act as a clearing house for information that is then downloaded, printed out and distributed. Every indymedia user that distributes news this way boosts indymedia accessibility by hundreds of people otherwise oblivious to indymedia. Only when the people have the relevant info, will they be able to choose, much less be aware of the need to act on something that impacts their life greatly.

To summarize, in order to secede we need:

Local food in the hands of the people- urban farming, this is beyond gardening. Food not lawns and de-pave your driveway. Being in the hands of the people means seed saving as well as controlling the "fields."
Water conservation - collect rain and plant trees. Trees are living reservoirs, living micro-aquifers.
Local Healthcare - start talking about Community Supported Healthcare. What will it look like, how will it work, what practices and techniques will be used, how will it be 100% inclusive? "Healthcare for All!"
Build community - talk to your neighbors and organize to provide things for each other, to work together to live how you want. A few visible examples and certainly a few lived experiences with the speed and functionality of the community-building method's impact on one's quality of life does a lot to recruit others to the community.
Get the word Out! - if we dont talk to each other, nothing will happen. We rely on the electoral/legislative process to coexist right now, a slow and somewhat ineffective process. People must know the info before they can do anything about it, much less choose to act oh behalf of themselves and others. Follow through on the IMC mission: PRINT STUFF OUT and DISTRIBUTE! People must get the news. Leaving that task up to Murdock and the Right has been rather unsuccessful for us. Im not talking about people who read indymedia, but those who dont, those who rely on casual information gathering for their news, and by failing to follow through, the only info these people get is skewed to the right, making them skewed to the right.

Wow, anybody else got stuff to add, subtract from this?
hope and peace and real action
get out on the streets, do your talking there. the people worth talking to are out there, not in here today.

The Peoples Republic of Jefferson 03.Nov.2004 16:00

Zade Booze zadebooze@yahoo.com

The current propositions of succession are good in premise and the concerns of food and water are certainly of optimal importance but in order to enact it we need a unity of people, we need to appeal to the laborers and disenfranchised of our own nation to move here in order to gain a real dominance in the west coast. We need to appeal to non-resident migrant workers as well because being a nation based on true equality they will finally have a true home and a voice in government.. By attracting those who are like us and giving them a place it will make it more and more difficult for the fascists that currently reside here to remain and they will eventually go. Several years ago the people of southern Oregon and northern California tried to form a 51st state they called "the State of Jefferson", what I purpose is a "Peoples Republic of Jefferson" showing solidarity with the ideals upon which the US was founded and also in tribute to the prophetic words of Thomas Jefferson "If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." except with the advancements we have made in human rights in the last 200 year we can also be a nation of true equality without slavery or caste... truly a nation "Of the People". I may not be an eloquent writer but I have a passion for those things I was promised as a child, what turned into the greatest of all lies, but it doesn't have to be, we may never have true liberty, let us be willing to give everything that we are to see that our children will have true liberty and live in society free from oppression and intollerence, truly without caste, where good healthcare isn't rationed for the rich and homelessness is a bad memory of things passed.

People's Republic of Jefferson, Cascadia, etc. 03.Nov.2004 19:36


Well said, Zade.

If we are going to do this - and we NEED to do this - we need to all encourage like-minded people to move here. Though it all may seem like a pipe-dream, the time for action is NOW and it, a block of land free of the United States, can be a reality. They may have all the money, the corporate power and the land, but it has been the same way in other countries during our lifetime. But that hasn't stopped people in countries like the former Czecho-Slovakia from bringing it all down.

Scattered all throughout the country are millions of people who are sick of the current situation in the U.S. and who desire something other than the existing system and "leadership". Though the majority may be too fearful to voice their opinion and rock the boat, there are more people in the "pissed-off" category than there are in the leadership category. We HAVE the advantage.

We all know like-minded others, people who would support a REAL change like a country of our own.

Encourage them to move to Oregon, Washington or Northern California.

If you own your own business, try to employ those like-minded people who are willing to come here. Even if it's just part time. Every little bit will help.

We need people of all types to come. People who can teach, who can farm, who can build and people who can lead. We're all good at something that can contribute to our needs.

If we can all encourage just one like-minded outsider to relocate and to give it an honest try, that will double our numbers.

And yes, there is the problem with fascists and often a lot of them in some areas, but keep in mind, people like that won't stick around for long when all the "undesireables" show up in their neighborhood.
Once you encourage your gay friends or your latino friends to move into the neighborhood, the "good ol' boys" who voted for Bush and in favor of 36 will want out. Before long, WE will be the majority and once that happens, there is nothing that Uncle $cam will be able to do to stop us from our goals.

And yes, as Notquick pointed out, don't forget about things like food. Everyone will need to learn basic life skills that will enable them to be self-reliant. Learn how to garden, learn how to save seeds, learn about plant breeding, learn animal husbandry skills, learn carpentry skills, learn candle-making, learn how to cook, learn how to preserve food, learn how to sew, etc. These are REAL life skills that each of us should master. There are plenty of books and websites on self sufficiency, homesteading, organic gardening, etc. - check them out! Without them, there will never be REAL change.

It's time to actually put the ball into motion, people.

Birthing a new world is necessary 03.Nov.2004 21:47

ani aniraven@yahoo.com

I love the idea of re-forming a territory to be an area that can use a far more participatory form of governance. We need a viable landbase. Let's read fiction, philosophy, history (- Paris Commune, anyone? How about the Digger's in 1642 England), share ideas, and act with inspiration to birth the new world that is breaking on the horizon.

I have read Ecotopia, it has some interesting stuff. I very much recommend reading Starhawk's novel "The Fifth Sacred Thing", in which a time comes that San Francisco is held as liberated territory. We must dream this new world into being together. It is obvious that there is not much of this system that can be used to "reform" its imbalances; to make it accountable to the people.

We must dare to talk about the other world that is possible every chance we can—especially to people who may not have thought about this before. Really, who wouldn't want to live in a world where people are treated with respect, and where clean air, water and food supplies are highly valued. A community in which meaningful employment is woven into its very fabric, and neighbors work together to help each other meet challenges.

I don't think that we need to worry about defining this territory in terms of geography yet—for now, let's talk about that other world that is possible. Let's hold that vision together and then let's make it so.

Solidarity & Vision + a generous sense of humor, courage and compassion are all that's needed.

climbing on the ball 04.Nov.2004 13:16


we are all Americans in that we live in the geography commonly called America. what more do we need really, if we are talking about "Really, who wouldn't want to live in a world where people are treated with respect, and where clean air, water and food supplies are highly valued," its the commonality between us we rally around, its the commonality from which we begin to build that unity.

Anis historical events are incredible resources, both for inspiration and for insights making our struggle for freedom more successful than those beautiful examples of human brilliance. And there are some other examples, Czechoslovakia in 68 and the history of the "Velvet Revolution", both Paris Communes 1871 and 1968. And Anson brings up a critcal point, that the fascists are here and we need to deal with them. moving into their communities is a good idea, making Cascadia/Pacifica/Jefferson/whatever a magnet for "sane" people is crucial. some of these fascists will resist to the point of leaving, perpetuating the isolation from diversity whih hs allowed them to become so self-prejudiced. many however, the rest, will need to open their eyes just to navigate their lives in such a newly diverse community. As a consequence of staying they will begin to change.

indeed if community is to be our organizing point, then there will be direct communiction between the new and the fascist. For this unity of people we find so indispensible for our empowerment (and unity is exactly how the fascists have become so powerful), we must open doors for (former) fascists to be included. they wont be able to join us til they abandon fascism, but they wont be able to abandon fascism unless we engage them in life.

to build that community, that unity of people which must be fully inclusive, i sugest crating spaces to bring ourselves together with a focus of learning the pertinent issues effecting our common experience and discussing what we can do about these issues. For instance we are orgnizing a screening of "The end of Suburbia" which is about the end of oil energy and the everything impact that will have. when info like this is observed in a group setting, everyone turns to each other and begins talking about what to do tonight and tomarrow and beyond to cange that issue. i think learning together is much better than learning alone because being alone it is so much easier to get lost, to despair.

peace hope and do something real!