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Debate: Crashing the Parties

Alternative presidential candidates will be featured tonight on PBS, 9 p.m.
For a REAL experience of the debates be sure to watch "Crashing the Parties - 2004" tonight on PBS, 9 pm. Other presidential candidates will be featured, including that COOL David Cobb of the Green Party.
timing is everthing 30.Sep.2004 12:27


vote dilution is a solution to keep sinky bush in power. thank the fake liberals at pbs

"vote dilution"? WTF? 30.Sep.2004 14:27

Scotty B.

Because Kerry is *such* a liberal that all these supporters of "vote dilution" must all be Bush supporters. If progressive Democrats want see progressives and leftists elected to office, they should support vote reforms like Instant Runoff Voting and Proportional Representation. I'm looking forward to this documentary - third parties are the only hope for our future (I'm a Green.)

2 scotty 30.Sep.2004 17:26

what is the green action?

Did you run for any local position? I would support locals that are crashing the local party duopoly. Nationally however its vote dilution. Do the math---dont get emotional---think.

As j Tull gives------" I can make you feel, but I can't make you think"

Be at the march-PEACE
This is not the best choice
This is not the best choice

B/S 30.Sep.2004 17:54

really independent

Fucking party politics are a big fucking joke. If you want to get something accomplished get off your ass and do something about rather than wasting your time with electioneering schemes. These people will continously screw you over, look at the "radical" third party's history in Europe and here. Name one thing that government can do that the people cannot do for themselves.

Achieving Political Change 30.Sep.2004 23:24

Scotty B.

To the person two posts above: The entire concept that third-party candidates somehow "steal" votes from the Dixiecrats and Republicons is a myth propagated entirely by the Dixiecrat propaganda machine since 2000. In a sense, the entire purpose of politics would be "stealing" votes because when you run an election you're trying to get votes from someone else. But the idea that 3rd-party candidates shouldn't run because they and they alone are responsible of "spoiling", or as you call it, "vote dilution" for the dixiecrats is completely ridiculous. Political parties are not entitled to votes - they have to EARN votes. In Florida, Ralph Nader never stole those 97, 000 votes from the Democrats because they NEVER BELONGED to the Democrats. BTW, interesting fact, other candidates in Florida in 2000 which obtained more that 537 votes and therefore "spoiled" the election if the charge was applied equally:

Patrick Buchanan, Reform = 17, 484
Harry Browne, Libertarian = 16, 415
James Harris, Socialist Workers = 562
John Hagelin, Natural Law = 2, 280
David McReynolds, Socialist = 621
Monica Moorehead, Workers World = 1, 803

To "Really Independent":

They way I see it, there are three ways to achieve radical change: 1) Violent armed revolution, 2) Non-Violent Revolution, and 3) Political Revolution.

I wouldn't support a revolution by the first means, and the second means would be impossible to accomplish here AT THIS TIME on a large scale due simply to the size of our country and the general apathy. The only viable possibility avalible for large-scale change right now is political revolution through third-party politics, and even this will be/is extremely difficult to achieve.

"Look at the "radical" third party's history in Europe and here."

Radical third parties in Europe haven't screwed people over, nor have there here. Examples, please? I suppose the German Green Party is an example of a party that's become rather co-opted, but in my opinion they still maintain their orginal values. Radical third parties in many countries like the Netherlands and Sweden are leading the fight against privatisation and globalisation. "Green Left", a party which has elected parliamentarians in the Netherlands, is a good example.

"government can do that the people cannot do for themselves."

Healthcare, economic equality, education systems...I realize that people with your ideology probably see these in the context of some utopian anarchist vision..."Why can't people educate themselves," etc. alt. But the fact is, people are ultimately greedy, and without the interference of a strong structured government controlled by the people, the wealthy property owners and corporate elite will ALWAYS trample over the rights of people in general and ensure that needs that in a perfect society would be cooperative and wouldn't need government enforcement, like healthcare, are distributed on an extremely unequal scale.

I differ from the Green Party platform in that I do not support the principle of decentralization in many cases - when government is decentralized, it no longer has the power to ensure that social and economic justice - civil rights - and taken care of across the board. I see decentralization as essentially a good-intentioned resurrection of "state's rights", and political anarchism as essentially a good-intentioned give away to the wealthy corporations that would control our society without a strong government.

Check out Jennifer Government, this kick-ass novel that explains what I'm talking about, here: www.maxbarry.com/jennifergovernment/

So yup.