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Millions suffer under Kim Jong-il. We should have stood up to him long ago.

We must stop Kim Jong-il's human rights violations and Songun crimes in the DPRK.
It is exactly 60 years since Rudolf Vrba's and Alfred Wetzler's successful escape from Auschwitz, an escape that brought to light accounts of Hitler's extermination camps. The testimony given by Messrs. Vrba and Wetzler forced representatives of the democratic world to face facts that many did not want to believe, even after the end of the war. Thanks to them and countless numbers of other witnesses, the horrors and extent of the Nazi final solution are universally known.

Like the Nazi Holocaust, the crimes and brutal reality of Soviet communism were also outlined and understood, thanks to the writings of Arthur Koestler, Alexander Solzhenitsyn and others.

Fortunately, people who use direct eyewitness testimony in attempts to expose the greatest crimes against humanity can be found in each era and all over the world. Rithy Panh described the terror of the Khmer Rouge, Kanan Makiya detailed the brutal prisons of Saddam Hussein and Harry Wu has tried to show the perversion of the Laogai system of Chinese forced labour camps.

Today, the testimony of thousands of North Korean refugees, who have survived the miserable journey through Communist China to free South Korea, tell of the criminal nature of the North Korean dictatorship. Accounts of repression are supported and verified by modern satellite images, and clearly illustrate that North Korea has a functioning system of concentration camps. The Kwan-li-so, or the political penal-labour colony, holds as many as 200,000 prisoners who are barely surviving day-to-day or are dying in the same conditions as did the millions of prisoners in the Soviet gulag system in the past.

The Northern part of the Korean peninsula is governed by the world's worst totalitarian dictator, who is responsible for taking millions of human lives. Kim Jong-il inherited the extensive Communist regime following the death of his father Kim Il-sung, and has shamelessly continued to strengthen the cult of personality.

He sustains one of the largest armies in the world and is producing weapons of mass destruction. The centrally planned economy and the state ideology of juche have led the country into famine. The victims of the North Korean regime number in the millions.

Despite the ever-present army and police, tens of thousands of desperate North Koreans have escaped to China. In defiance of international treaties, the Chinese government does not recognize the status of these people as refugees, and Chinese officials have prevented the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees from having access to any North Korean in China.

The Chinese government hunts the refugees in the woods along the border and deports them back to North Korea, where the journey ends in the Kwan-li-so. All of this is happening right now, and the world is standing idly by.

Some refugees are fortunate enough to make it successfully to South Korea. But their existence in South Korea flies in the face of that country's official Sunshine Policy, which however well-intentioned, is based on constant concessions and appeasement. The policy costs South Korea hundreds of millions of dollars, but it is not helping to reach a solution to the overall problem or saving innocent human lives. In the end, the policy only keeps the leader of Pyongyang in power.

Kim Jong-il is able to blackmail the entire world with the help of his million-man army, nuclear weapons, long-range rockets and the export of weaponry and military technology to like-minded dictators around the world.

Kim Jong-il wants to be respected and feared abroad, and he wants to be recognized as one of the most powerful leaders in today's world. He is willing to let his own people die of hunger, and uses famine to liquidate any sign of wavering loyalty to his rule.

Through blackmail, Kim Jong-il receives food and oil, which he distributes among those loyal to him (first in line being the army), while the international community has no way to ascertain who is receiving aid inside North Korea.

This year, at the UN Commission for Human Rights in Geneva, a resolution was passed condemning the practices of the North Korean government. Even with this condemnation, it is difficult to believe the commission has criticized the North Korean regime for gross violations of human rights on only two occasions since the commission was founded.

Less shocking, but equally disturbing, is the fact that the North Korean government has yet to fulfill any of the concrete recommendations included in the resolution from the previous year.

Innocent North Koreans are dying of hunger or are closed in concentration camps, as Kim Jong-il continues to blackmail the world.

Now is the time for the democratic countries of the world - the European Union, the United States, Japan and, last but not least, South Korea - to unify under a common position. These countries must make it perfectly clear that they will not make concessions to a totalitarian dictator.

They must state that respect for basic human rights is an integral part of any future discussions with Pyongyang. Decisiveness, perseverance and negotiations from a position of strength are the only things that Kim Jong-il and those similar to him understand.

Let's hope that the world does not need any more horrifying testimony to realize this.

More Info:  http://www.hrnk.org/hiddengulag/toc.html

(Source: Globe and Mail  http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040617.wcomment0618/BNStory/Front/)
Blah Blah 23.Sep.2004 10:29

John Paul Cupp

1. The Songun Mode, is a defensive, not offensive, move in an era when imperialism is ever militaristic, when "international Law" isn't worth toilet paper, at preventing aggression.

2. Placing priority in military affairs, in such context is necassary, as a deterant force, the author uses defense to suggest the need for aggression.

3. Since when did

4. Any real or allegead event at Auschwitz, or from Hitlerite Fascism cannot even remotely be compared to the DPRK. This is just plain stupid.

5. Here again we see that western leftists, surrendering to imperialism, will go to all lengths, including collaborating with fascists, to advance their opertunist cause of demonizing the leadership of resistance to imperialism, rather than concretely supporting

6. Korea has never been an imperialist or belligerant country. They are a threat to no one, except to aggressors, and for this CONGRADULATIONS! The Korean People are entitled

7. Imperialism is incapable of bringing human rights and democracy. It has no right to speak, only to die slowly, and have no moral authority to "intervention".

JPC shut up already 23.Sep.2004 12:41


Why say anything if you have no intelligent response to give? If you are so gung-ho about North Korea being a bastion of freedom, then how do you respond to allegations that Kim Jong il is starving "his" people? Defend, deny? I've only ever seen you avoid the subject entirely.

Claymedia, 23.Sep.2004 14:09

John Paul Cupp

The post above primarily concerned its self with a call for imperialist interferance under the guise of "bringing human rights", and hence that was the focus of my attack.

And as always 23.Sep.2004 15:03

Dear Leader

And as always Cupp does not address the issue of Kim Jon IL's abuse of the people of North Korea. He will in all likelihood respond to this with an 18 page repost of North Korean propaganda. Just once I'd like to see him to actually respond to the question.
How anyone could support the North Korean dystopia in any way is beyond me. American Imperialism is a horror show and no one wants to see Bush (or Kerry, or whoever) beat up on other people. The Orwellian nightmare of Kim's however is indefensible. I don't care how many times Kim waves the word "defensive" around.

Regarding "As Always" 23.Sep.2004 16:19

John Paul Cupp

1. Do you suggest that the Songun Mode is offensive, and not defensive. If it is offensive in nature than who is it aimed at.

2. What specific violations, etc would you like to make, and that you wish to make an enquirey on, because they usually contradict one another from place to place, and as US imperialism changes its line. Please send all aligations directly line by line, on list, and within a few days, I will have a full report in detail.

3. Much of this is the failure of western leftists to think outside of the pro-imperialist paradigm of their birth.

4. I wish to enquire the political/ ideological orientation of "Happy Licking the Boots of the Dear Leader", in exchange for taking the time to present answers to the questions asked, which at this time are vague.

JPC 23.Sep.2004 17:23

Cupp of soup

I have asked you time and time again. Yet you refuse to answer how did the guy get so fat in a straving nation, is this an insider thing? ( It's OK if the DOD won't let you just type four g's next post) I know this is your work day so I won't keep.

Now answer the fucking question.

Specific question for John Paul Cupp 23.Sep.2004 21:06


Does Kim Jong il withhold food from citizens of the DPRK? If so, how can you justify this?

Cupp of Crap 24.Sep.2004 07:48

Dearest Darling Leader

It would be alot easier to present evidence of the North Korean government's abuses of its citizens if it weren't for the fact THAT THEY AREN'T ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO FOREIGNERS. Maybe the fact that I can't exactly email or call someone up in North Korea and ask them what is going on in their lives might put a damper on my presenting "hard evidence" which I'm sure your handlers in NK would really investigate any way. (And I shudder to think what such an investigation would entail.)

There are countless accounts of abuse and the inner workings of the dystopian "socialist paradise" that is North Korea. But I'm sure you'd say something along the lines of it all being capitalist propaganda or some such thing. If you want to turn a blind eye to it all, then go ahead, you sheep.

What I'm starting to think is that you are actually a fed agent who is trying to stir up anti-NK sentiment to prepare everyone for an eventual invasion. (By Bush or Kerry, it doesn't matter.)That or you just work for Kim Jong IL. In either case I pity your stupidity.


Not Me 24.Sep.2004 07:53

Happily Licking Dear Leader's Boots!

Dear JCP,

I didn't post this - oddly enough, other people also do not think that the DPRK is a paradise on earth.


Former Trotskyist

jimmy row 24.Sep.2004 11:57

Oppose US aggression everywhere

I thought these three statements by JPC were right on:

5. Here again we see that western leftists, surrendering to imperialism, will go to all lengths, including collaborating with fascists, to advance their opertunist cause of demonizing the leadership of resistance to imperialism, rather than concretely supporting

6. Korea has never been an imperialist or belligerant country. They are a threat to no one, except to aggressors, and for this CONGRADULATIONS! The Korean People are entitled

7. Imperialism is incapable of bringing human rights and democracy. It has no right to speak, only to die slowly, and have no moral authority to "intervention".

I don't know much about the current regime in North Korea. Except that its whole history is one of defending itself against US aggession. And, that it is very difficult to filter through the propoganda and lies to find the truth from here in the US. Isn't it the modis operandi of US propoganda to paint the rulers of a foreign country totally black in order to build public opinion for aggression.

Look at the title of this article: "Millions suffer under Kim Jong-il. We should have stood up to him long ago". Do you support that? If you do, you are just "surrendering to imperialism". That is the main point. Take a strong stand against the empire's propoganda and aggression.

In that context, we might discuss how fat Kim Jong-iL is and the situation in North Korea. With no right to contribute to the discussion from the empire's propoganda machine. But, outside of a clear stand against the empire and outside of clear support for North Korea and all other countries for their opposition to the empire, you are a gullible fool.

I enjoy JPC's contributions on this forum. I agree with much of it and want to see more. I particularly think his critique of the weakness of US "progressives" is especially relevant and insightful. A lot of people on this forum would do well to get past the sometimes stilted rhetoric and ideology and deal with the key issue on all of our plates: how do we effectively fight the empire from within and encourage and support international opposition to the beast.

JPC 24.Sep.2004 13:05

you haven't answered the question

I have watch you avoid this long enough, Cupp of Soup asked you.

"I have asked you time and time again. Yet you refuse to answer how did the guy get so fat in a straving nation, is this an insider thing?"

You seem unable or unwilling to respond. It is a simple question can the answer be that hard.

Big deal - Kim is fat 24.Sep.2004 14:15

jimmy row

Maybe, JPC also thinks that it is just a stupid question that detracts from the key issue and supports the empire's propoganda campaign against North Korea. Maybe he also thinks that you pushing that question is just an indication that you are a dupe of the empire.

Suppose that it is true, as you suggest, that Kim Jong-iL is just a fat parasite preying on the people of North Korea. What concern is it for you? Let the people of North Korea discard their own parasites. Your job is to work to discard ours. Your pushing that question out of context makes you sound like some kind of Kerry liberal aiming to support US aggression under the arrogant and hypocritical guise of liberal humanitarianism. You are standing right next to the US ruling class who heaps abuse on everybody in the world who stands against US interests. Should we also support and invasion of Venezuela? - a whole class of people in that country claim Chavez is a tyrant. Did you support the US invasion of Afghanistan because the Taliban were so backward? Did you support the invasion of Iraq because their ruler was such a tyrant? Will you support the US invasion of Nigeria?

We are living in the sewer of the empire's propoganda machine. Try to wipe some of the muck off your face and see what the real issues are. Try not to parrot the empire's talking points.

Dear All 24.Sep.2004 14:46

John Paul Cupp

The question of "why is Comrade Kim Jong Il so Fat", is just plain stupid. As far as the question of DPRK allegead "Human Rights' abuses, this is an important matter. I have written rebuttals to many of them, and in the next few days I will work on an essay, etc fact sheet, on this matter.

A couple of notes.

1. The DPRK is not "Stalinist", though it certainly is not Revisionist and reformist socialist the way the USSR was in its latter days. Comrade Kim Il Sung helped formulate what is called the tanean system, to ensure localized work place decision making in place of what he saw as the excessive buracracy and ultra-centralism of the USSR. I think this needs to be worked out too. The Juche idea of Korea is not entirely Marxist-Leninist either, because it slightly differance from Marxist Dialectics in that it places emphasis on human nature and suggests, that Humanity as an independant creature, molds and scopes its destiny, unlike anything else. Comrade Stalin did many great things, but also had many failings.

2. The DPRK is being blackmailed because it refuses to open up its workers ownership of the means of production, were many socialist states surrendered in whole or in part to Imperialist pressure to creat Market "socialism" and all the pro-globalist sorrow that comes from it. Essentially Songun, is putting the arms back into the face of the imperialists and saying "NO!".
That is it is the refusal to surrender revolution to bullies. Do you all really suggest that a "Third World" country as small as the DPRK could exist, without a huge militarization of its infrastructure.

3. The DPRK's NEED to rely on the military, prevents it from being able to allocate funds in other social directions, because without army-first it would be attacked and turn all of Korea into a US colony. This is extreme bravery. Even at that the DPRK citizens enjoy social benefits that do not exist in the US. Keep in mind that the DPRK does not have the masses wealth of imperialist countries. The theory is the greatest thing is not to give up integrity, and at all costs. I have previously posted the benefiets working mothers enjoy that is not available in the US. This from a small country under seige.

To Jimmy Row and Others 24.Sep.2004 15:14

John Paul Cupp anti_imperialist_solidarity@yahoo.com

Also, here are a couple of links. We haven't got much on the NDFSK site, but the Songun Site is stocked full of information. Their is a key interview on the NDFSK Tribute Site that may be of interest to you. I can send more site, etc, if you want further reading. My e-mail is below. Tell me if a link doesn't work and I will resend it.

Songun Politics Study Group (USA)


US Solidarity Committee to Support the NDFSK and the South Korean People's Struggle


Songun Yahoo Discussion Forum- 2-4 e-mails a day of interest


Korean Central News Agency- Official Paper


Our Buddy North Korea 24.Sep.2004 19:31


The Bush administration does not treat all leaders of oppressive regimes, purveyors of genocide, and non-democratic governments in the same way at all. As long as they are either willing to play nicely in the economic arena or have nothing to offer investors they will not be invaded or even criticized, except faintly. This is why the current administration's rationale for invasion ("freeing" the people of Iraqi - a reason initially far down the list of reasons for invading that country) is so totally bogus.

Dear John Paul Cupp: Please Respond to this Allegation 27.Sep.2004 08:31

Comrade Critical

Dear John Paul,
Please simply give me a full response to this one allegation:
There are Kwan-Li-So (political penal-labour colonies) in the DPRK with 200,000 political prisoners. The prisoners are treated like animals and suffer from torture, starvation and slave labour conditions. They were imprisoned, because they criticized the government, practised a religion or tried to flee the country. They were imprisoned often together with family members including even children.

This link gives more detailed information:  http://www.hrnk.org/hiddengulag/toc.html . There are many more internet sites with information; just google for North Korea + human rights.

Please do not post any propaganda essay; this would not give any new information. None of your essays deals with the Kwan-Li-So. Just provide a detailed response to the Kwan-Li-So allegation.

I think Vaclav Havel does not desire any aggression; he only wants to help these innocent prisoners. What would you suggest to do to provide human rights to Kwan-Li-So prisoners? In most other prisons worldwide (less horrible ones than the Kwan-Li-So) the situation improved after media and NGO coverage.

Comrade Critical