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government a13 bush/kerry visits

MEET AT 10:00 AM AT THE SALMON ST. FOUNTAIN TO PROTEST KERRY!

Those of us who feel that we also have something to say to Kerry will be meeting up with each other at 10:00 am Friday morning at the Salmon Street Springs (that's the big fountain on the waterfront at Salmon Street).
This will be a forum to speak out, raise some questions that won't be on Kerry's agenda (like, for instance, all the wars and occupations he's seen fit to support), and hoist some of the signs and banners that won't be allowed inside the official event. Groups intending to have a presence there will include, but are by no means limited to, Radical Women, the Freedom Socialist Party, the Nader campaign, as well as disgruntled Kerry supporters who'd like to be able to take the clothespin off their nose (or at least loosen it a little). JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T ALSO PROTEST HIM. The guy's supposed to represent you, after all! Is he?

BRING SIGNS, BANNERS, BULLHORNS, CHANTS, SONGS, DRUMS, and most of all, YOUR MESSAGE FOR JOHN KERRY.
ctrl-z 12.Aug.2004 13:33

Protesting Kerry when you could protest against Bush is like

..letting a murderer go free so you can catch someone who has an overdue library book.

yes protest Kerry 12.Aug.2004 14:21

hear ye

Protesting Kerry is the best route to having any chance at all of having the anti war message make an impact on this election. Bush considers protestors irrelevant and has said so many times in many ways. Kerry hopefully will at least listen because a majority of Democrats (supposedly) are anti war.

ctrl-z 12.Aug.2004 15:15

Make Bush Happy!

Protest against Kerry. That way the news reports can show Bush and his happy supporters and Kerry being protested. Just what Bush wants.

If you want another four years of Bush, go protest Kerry.

If you want Bush out, protest Bush.

I've been protesting against Bush for 4 straight years.... 12.Aug.2004 16:13

Red Emma redemma13@yahoo.com

...and he hasn't gone anywhere yet, sad to say. Bush has already written off my vote. Kerry, on the other hand, is COUNTING ON my vote. I'm going to be there to tell him he can't count on NUTHIN from me until he changes his position on the war.

Interesting....there are two candidates, both of whom support the same war that is killing tens of thousands of people, but one of them is a murderer and the other's culpability is comparable to nothing more serious than an overdue library book??? How do you figure this?

C'mon, Democrats, you can't have it both ways like this. If Bush really is the greatest threat to western civilization since Attila the Hun, then there's got to be some serious accountability for all the collaborators who have spent 4 years aiding and abetting his worst excesses. (Remember, Kerry didn't just vote for the PATRIOT Act, he AUTHORED some of its provisions! He says he'd vote again for the war in Iraq, even "knowing what he knows now.") On the other hand, if you think it's OK to give your vote to a guy who uncritically supports nine tenths of the Bush agenda, then you can hardly claim that it will be the end of the world if Bush gets "elected" for another 4 years.

No need to choose: protest both 12.Aug.2004 16:19

portlander

As long as Kerry supports Bush's wars, Bush's assaults on civil liberties, and Bush's trade policies he should expect the same treatment as Bush in visiting Portland. Most people will protest both since they disagree with both. I also agree that Kerry is the one who needs to hear our message, not Bush, not that I would miss a chance to voice my opposition to the policies of the Bush administration.

Some sign ideas for Kerry off the top of my head:

If Iraq is another Vietnam is Kerry another Nixon?

4 More Years of War in Iraq! Vote Kerry!

Uphold the Constitution
Restore Civil Liberties

NAFTA was not a good idea

Welfare Reform = War on the Poor

Repeal the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act

Kerry: For a kindler, gentler police state

Kerry: So Liberals don't have to feel guilty

Kerry/Edwards: In Opposition to Gay Marriage

Good idea 12.Aug.2004 16:28

and could

we also get people with cars to volunteer rides to those of us who don't?
Many people are expressing regret at being unable to go to the bush sites because of the locations & crazy time schedule. Numbers are always important.

bush's corporate media 12.Aug.2004 16:43

loves you

good job
Thanks!
Thanks!

hey, it's Kerry's media too 12.Aug.2004 17:24

.

Not that I'd expect democrats to understand that. Some people will just never get it. But hey, if you love war, "free" trade, and the patriot act, go and support Kerry. We'll see you there.

Are you people friggin crazy?? 12.Aug.2004 18:12

KB

In case some folks may have not heard-- GEORGE W BUSH, the evil incarnate-- is going to be in town. We will have another 4 years of HELL if he is reelected. Kerry represents hope. If you want to protest, protest Bush, you ninnies!

Since Bush has written off protesters, 12.Aug.2004 18:16

why

not protest their common policies at/near the Kerry rally?
- you'll get more press coverage, almost certainly.
- Kerry won't appear to the press to be quite so weakened as if you're directly anti-Kerry, hopefully.
- Get a rise out of the ticketed crowd that's hard for Kerry to ignore, with any luck.
- More witnesses to inhibit police brutality, I would hope.
- You get a cheesy Bon Jovi soundtrack at no extra charge.

The front line of Bush protest I can only picture as attenuated clumps of the usual suspects lining the motorcade route (or our best guess at the actual route), interspersed with Bush supporters. That and a few hundred angry citizens fenced off in a parking lot or dirt lot 1/4 mile from the POTUS at "Terminal 6". Good energy, but arguably spent quite badly.

Terminal 6? 1. W, 2. Cheney, 3. Rummy, 4. ASScroft, 5. Rice, 6. The new CIA boss.

if Bush is evil incarnate 12.Aug.2004 18:19

.

Then what does that make Kerry for supporting him for 4 years?

Who you gonna protest??? 12.Aug.2004 19:12

anonx

If you protest Kerry, that's going to be within the context of the mass media, and if that's your intention; to bring counter-protests to the forefront of the mass media, you'll win.

But what all you people really need to do, is get to Southridge High School and make it so loud that Bush will STOP coming to Portland. This is about Strategy to get Bush out of office.

Stop thinking about your own self, and think about the bigger picture. Protest against Kerry and the media WILL USE YOU for their purposes.

Devils 12.Aug.2004 19:35

George Bender

Since Kerry voted for the war, he is as responsible as Bush for the 11-13,000 Iraq civilians who have died because of the U.S. occupation ( http://www.iraqbodycount.net/). Kerry is STILL supporting the war and says he would have voted for it even if he knew then what we all know now (actually, what most of us using this website knew then). Kerry wants to send more troops to Iraq to kill more people. If you vote for Kerry you are morally responsible for those deaths.

Don't vote for one devil to get rid of another. Vote for Nader and send a message that you're against occupation and murder.


Here's an idea 12.Aug.2004 20:52

William

Since y'all can't seem to figure out which one to protest (too lazy to get up to the Bush site...awww, obviously it doesn't take much effort for Bush to stop you guys...) why don't you just go to Laurelhurst park with your signs and protest each other?

This is just like four years ago, and look what happened then. Thanks, guys...

Kerry did not support THIS war 12.Aug.2004 21:15

dan

Kerry voted (stupidly) to give Bush the AUTHORITY to go to war - as a last resort. He did not vote "for this war." Kerry's position is that, had he been in Bush's place, he would not have gone to war without much more competent diplomacy, and at least brought on multilateral support (thus dramatically increasing the chances Saddam would have just folded). And, let's face it, if Kerry had been President since January 2001, he would not have gone to war at all. His recent statement was just saying he believed in the right of the President, and President, to make that decision. It's a position I strongly disagree with, but it is not the same as saying he supported the war and especially Bush's rush to war.

Protesting Kerry because he's accessible and Bush isn't is rewarding secrecy and playing into Bush's hand. Protest Kerry AFTER he's elected to your heart's content - I'll probably join you.

Kerry did support this war 12.Aug.2004 21:33

George Bender

"And, let's face it, if Kerry had been President since January 2001, he would not have gone to war at all."

That's not what he is saying. He has said recently that even knowing what he knows now, had he been president, he could have gone to war against Iraq.

You are trying, like Kerry, to make a distinction without a difference. Try to put your brain in gear and face reality.


no, protesting before is important 12.Aug.2004 21:40

portlander

Kerry needs to know how people feel. He can choose to not change his positions but he must not be allowed to ignore the voice of the people. I'm thinking an early morning dock picket against Bush sounds good for me, but I'm not going to tell anyone what to do. For me, this isn't about getting Bush out of office. It's about voicing opposition to the policies that Bush and Kerry support. And no, Kerry was not so incompetent that he didn't know what he was voting for. He knew Bush would go to war and he voted because it was politically expedient to do so. He was not "fooled" by Bush anymore than anyone else here. We all knew what Bush was doing, we knew he was lying, and so did Kerry. The fact that Kerry doesn't want to admit to that is his prerogative. The fact that he would rather lie and spin than accept responsibility is certainly a choice he is free to make. But we all know the truth.

If I was going to the Kerry rally my sign would read:

How Do You Ask a Person to Be the Last Person to Die in Iraq?

And truly, that is my question for Kerry.

To Protest or not to protest 12.Aug.2004 22:42

tish

I am one of those on the fence voters who really wants to vote for Nader, but doesn't know if he'll get on the ballot, in which case I will have to decide between Kerry or Cobb(green party guy). I actually wanted to go hear Kerry speak tomorrow to hear what he has to say. However, I was revolted at the whole prospect when I found out that the Kerry camp was not allowing signs into the event, supportive or not. This tells me one thing about Kerry. He wants us to listen to him, but doesn't want to listen to us. He wants his Portland visit to be as scripted as the Dem. convention. If he's doing this on the campaign trail, how responsive will he be in office? The whole thing reeks of a communist/nazi style rally where everyone must attend, but no one can stray from the message. Haven't we had enough of our freedom of speech taken away from us in the past few years? Do you want the caged boxes of the so-called "FREE SPEECH ZONES" to continue? If Kerry wants to be president then he needs to gain respect of the people and take democracy away at his whim. This is a bigger issue than it seems. Yes, Bush is evil, but Kerry is adopting some of his arrogant stances when he disregards the message that people would like to share with him. I am personally going to write the Kerry campaign and tell them that if this type of behavior keeps up then they can kiss my vote goodbye for good.

Try to put your brain in gear and face reality 12.Aug.2004 23:02

DBC

Good advice, George Bender. A lot of people seem to think Bush will ignore them but maybe Kerry won't. Protests aren't going to change Kerry's position on the war or anything else.

about the banning of signs 12.Aug.2004 23:16

mom

Homemade signs are not permitted as the Kerry campaign is concerned or was advised to be concerned about the security issues involved with homemade signs.
Be cautious about interpretation here. Kerry is having an open public rally unlike his opponent who hides from the public and caters to the "have mores".
Recall that the Bush administration has spent several years conjuring up fear and creating hate --- no wonder he hides. I say give Kerry a chance to speak tomorrow with active listeners. He knows what state he is in, and little Beirut has a national reputation.

3rd party chances heating up... 12.Aug.2004 23:49

zero_sum0g

Amen to most of this. The more Kerry starts affirming his "bush-lite" status, the less important it seems to vote for him. Another poster put it well the other day - I paraphrase here:

"if everyone votes D/R this year, there will be no expectation of 3rd party challenges in 2008. if there is a significant 3rd party vote this year, (which I take to be 20%+ in the pResidential sElection) there will be significant attention paid to 3rd party candidates in 2008."

Imagine if just 1/5 of each, Democrat and Republican voters, as well as the huge body of independent voters (more of them than Republicans in Multnomah County, right?) vote for Cobb or Nader. Then imagine if the media picked up on the fact that people voted 3rd party due to the indistinguishable agendas of the corporate parties. Things could get very interesting and very fresh politically here.

Maybe just a pipe dream, but...

Protest Signs 13.Aug.2004 08:27

Workshop

Consider creating your sign on cloth. A section of an old, white bed sheet will do quite well. Letters/art work can be spray painted. Cloth can be folded up and concealed inside clothing. A long sign can be stretched out and held by two people.

You people are insane 13.Aug.2004 08:57

Person connected to reality

Do you realize what a protest conveys to anyone who hears about it? It conveys that we (Libs) can't come together under anything. It also gives every righty a really good laugh. It shows instability in our cause. That cause being, to get the big asshole out of office. If this has come down to a choice between the lesser of two evils, then considering the circumstances, we need to remember whom we want out of office. We need to show some sort of unification. Any vote not for Kerry, or non-vote, is an inadvertent vote for Bush. I'm sorry, but there is nothing that I want to see more than for GW to get the hell out of office, and if that means supporting Kerry, that is what I am going to do. Yes we do have a choice, but unfortunately, our choice is black and white. There are no shades of grey here. You either support Kerry, and the effort to get rid of George Bush, or you don't. Let's show some unification under a common cause, not internal decent and hate filled signs and banners.

Your Cause Stinks 13.Aug.2004 09:32

Bush/Kerry in 2004!!!

Who are you calling a "LIB"? What makes you think I want Bush out of office? Why would I want to replace him with a wimpier, lankier clone with nearly identical policies? With us or against us? Gee, who does that remind me of? The Democrats are a joke...and a bad one at that. See you at the fountain.

I do not share your cause; Kerry does not get a free ride 13.Aug.2004 10:14

portlander

I am not opposed to Bush; I am opposed to the policies he has enacted, the same policies supported and endorsed by John Kerry. All this has made some things very clear to me:

1. Many John Kerry supporters do not oppose the Iraq War, the Patriot Act (nor it's ilk of which they seem to be completely ignorant), "free" trade policies or any other policies of Bush.

2. These same people do not oppose Bush because of his policies but because he is on the "other" team. They would be fine with all of Bush's policies so long as Clinton, Gore, Kerry, or any other democrat was carrying them out.

3. These same people have adopted the arguments of those who oppose Bush's policies and used them in their partisan gamesmanship.

4. These same people have not "woken up" as people claim as a benefit to the Bush administration. To those who say that Kerry will mean people will go back to sleep I say "those people never woke up."

5. There are some people who have woken up, and I think those people are awake to what Kerry represents and will remain awake.

I'm not trying to generalize; I know plenty of people who consider or label themselves democrats who are, for example, anti-war and are bringing that message to the rally. More power to them.

Kerry does not get a free rise in this town. He doesn't get a free ride because he is a democrat. He doesn't get a free ride because he is not George Bush. He doesn't get a free ride because he is running against George Bush.

If he wants to bring a message of 4 more years and more troops in Iraq then people should respond appropriately. There is nothing hate filled about anti-war signs at a Kerry rally; though they are "off-message" as the democrats say. Well, for many people anti-war is the message and they will make sure that message is heard.

correction 13.Aug.2004 10:33

tt01

"Any vote not for Kerry, or non-vote, is an inadvertent vote for Bush."

wrong asshole. last time i checked if i vote for someone my vote is for them, not against your rich white boy kerry. your vote for skull and bones is more of a vote for skull and bones and bush than mine simply because i refuse to vote for a bonesman. think about it. cause you obviously havent

and don't blame my integrity for your conscious. idiots like you who vote for bonesman they dont even really want are the problem. not people who actually vote according to their beliefs.

no problem with anti-war signs 13.Aug.2004 11:51

mom

I have no problem with anti-war signs at the Kerry rally. I am anti war and I want Kerry to hear those of us who are anti-war.
Kerry however is not trying to drag americans into a biblically based talibanesque lifestyle --- bush's extremely right wing religious tendencies are what are at stake. For those reasons alone we must get him out of office. I am heartened by the response of most women I talk to. The war may equalize the candidates --- but only in one area --- and the reasons behind the candidates' stance are quite different.
I am also vegetarian and in favor of animal rights. Except for Kucinich I don't believe there has ever been a candidate who openly thought as I do in this regard... but that does not mean I won't vote. Choices are necessary.

HA!!!! 13.Aug.2004 12:46

clamydia

"Kerry represents hope."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Yeah, he represents hope to me, too, like I "hope" he gets abducted by aliens along with the entire Bush administration...

ha! 13.Aug.2004 17:52

clamydia

"It shows instability in our cause."
That's because there is, in fact, instability in "our" cause.
"It conveys that we (Libs) can't come together under anything."
You (Libs) have no problem coming together under something: a useless politician who will put you back to sleep while he continues towing the corporate imperialist agenda further into the 21st century. Those of us who actually are connected to reality realize that there is no significant difference between Kerry and Bush.