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Marines train for "crowd control" in West Virginia

ABC TV News last night (Saturday, July 31) aired a story of Marines "training" onn the streets of a West Virginia town for crowd control and urban combat. A series of chilling video clips showed Marines in full riot gear moving forward in rank while beating nightstick-like batons in unison against the plastic riot shields they carried.
The scene was identical to many recent protests where similarly armed police have used such tactics to steamroller protestors. Other video showed a new type of "non-lethal" stun grenade and various hardware such as rubber bullets for use in controlling/dispersing large crowds. The news commentator said the exercises were being conducted on the streets of small-town America to give Marines a feel for how real people would react to their presence. The official "explanation" for these exercises is that the Marine participants will soon be deployed to Iraq, where they will use their training to quell street protests.

Several questions/observations come to mind:

1. Why are Marines being trained in these type of police tactics at all? Aren't we spending a gazillion dollars to train Iraqi police to handle these very situations?

2. What is the interest of the United States in using such intimidation tactics on crowds of ordinary Iraqi citizen demonstrators? Apparently there is no fear that such protestors would represent an armed threat, otherwise the marines would be battle-equipped, not carrying batons and shields and other "non-lethal" toys.

3. What sort of large-scale "street protests" is the U.S. anticipating in Iraq - and why? Haven't they been insisting that only a few "foreign insurgents" and diehard "Saddam supporters" were causing all the trouble?

4. To date, the only (non-combat) public protests in Iraq have been noisy but peaceful. Why the sudden interest in controlling these people to the point of screwing them down? Wasn't the (ostensible) purpose to "liberate" them, and to establish "democracy"? (Oh, forgot, this IS what democracy looks like. Silly me.)

5. People usually don't protest in significant ways or numbers unless there's something damned important to protest against. What does the U.S. know that it isn't saying about what they have in store for the long-suffering Iraqi people?

6. Is this "training" the Marines are receiving really intended to be useful on a practical level in Iraq, or will Iraq simply be Phase II of training to use these forces right here in America? I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but it's a fact that the Bush administration has cancelled the Posse Comitatus Act and virtually eliminated the line between civilian and military control of civil affairs. Really makes me wonder about our own future and the potential for martial law.

After watching this on TV, I went looking for a transcript on the ABC News website. Nothing. Not even a reference. Maybe they just haven't updated yet - the last content listed was from Friday - but we shall see.

in my mind, this is not about iraq. 01.Aug.2004 10:31

this thing here

>3. What sort of large-scale "street protests" is the U.S. anticipating in Iraq - and why? Haven't they been insisting that only a few "foreign insurgents" and diehard "Saddam supporters" were causing all the trouble?<

i don't think this has anything to do with large scale street protests in iraq. not that it couldn't, it's just that there's already been many many large scale street protests in iraq. so unless these are rookies, i don't see why marines would suddenly need special new crowd control training.

the way i see it, there's a huge fucking out of control train coming down the tracks in this country.

if the presidential election in november is close, so very close that all the problem plagued voting systems in this country cannot give vote counts that are - a.) precise enough to handle margins of less than one hundred; and b.) delivered with the integrity required to maintain trust in them in the face of the utmost scrutiny a tight election means - then we face the possibility of events of the kind florida went through in 2000 IN MULTIPLE STATES ALL ACCROSS AMERICA.

you want to see "large scale street protests" and shit hitting a fan...


I Second that Emotion 01.Aug.2004 10:33

Nervous

My partner and I both saw that same newscast, and had much the same reaction. The whole thing doesn't feel right, like, there's a whole lot more to this story than is being aired. Perhaps the media doesn't suspect there is a deeper story, but then, for some time, they really haven't been providing "in depth" reporting and analysis anyway. They've lost the ability to be suspicious, skeptical and inquisitive, which are necessary characteristics of news reporting.
This could be what it is on the surface; yet, it could be a portent of things to come, and damn soon at that!

This is a great example of a news story that demands a critical eye, and further examination.

Call me Paranoid but....... 01.Aug.2004 11:48

Paranoid

Call me paranoid but having heard mentioned numerous times on the news lately the proposal of posponing the election if "there was a terrorist attack the day before or the day of the election", and now seeing this news segment, it seems likely to me these soldiers are being trained to be used right here in the event this countries citizens take to the streets in numbers not yet seen in the history of the U.S.!!!

these sorry 01.Aug.2004 12:12

sonsofbitches

will NOT be "controlling" crowds in Iraq...they're getting ready to control US here!

Rise up and unite...beat back the forces of tyranny and neofascism before they beat US!

Step by Step towards 01.Aug.2004 12:17

Fascism

This war on terror has always been about subdueing the American people. The corporations which run the government and the military apparatus of this country are calling in their chips soon.

This country and the resources within have always been claimed as theirs. Each successive war has been to further their plan and now they are so close to total domination that they can no longer hide their plans even to the brainwashed masses. As the noose tightens they need the military style peacekeeping for their continued control.

For a quick history of the lead up to this situation go to www.Nazi.net shadow of the swatika files

Reflections of facism past 01.Aug.2004 12:56

Neo-jew

It was Germany and it was happening to the others and nobody was concerned because the threat wasn't directed at themselves. What they did not realize or acknowledge is that the policy, ultimately, would distroy them all regardless of their religious afiliation.

The socially issolated jews cried out among themselves but it did no good because the predominate majority was too concerned with their own comfort to risk taking an upopular stand or to resist publicly the injustice of events.

The support of the larger population was forced by the subtile threat that if you don't ascent then you are no better than a jew and deserve no better treatment.

The question that the modern jews have as we are maligned as ecoterrorists, anti-american protestors, radical anarchists, freaks, muslums, or whatever is: how do we disemniate the message of peace that was taught by the greatest social spiritual leaders?

When injustice is allowed to florish anywhere it threatens justice everywhere. MLK

We who believe such ideals are the neo-jews in the world and we must reach out beyond our social/intellectual enclaves to engage the world so that we are not so easily marginalized.

This violates the constitution 01.Aug.2004 13:10

I think

Regular troops, under the authority of the president, are not allowed to do anything military within the US among the citizens. Only National Guard, under the authority of the govenors of each state, are allowed to act domestically.

These images of troops under the comander in chief are a threat to that division of federal and states authority and cloud the distinction of roles in America.

The attorney general was shut down trying to kill the suicide laws and marijuana laws enacted by our state legislature under the direction of the citizens. I would suggest that the federal government is seeking absolute authority over the lives of individuals by any means necessary or at least by any means that is permitted. It is a slippery slope and it must be stopped.

Additionally, I would suggest that this will not stop when the Bush administration leaves office. Remember, at least 50% of the government has right winger authoritarian tendenacies and they will persist with their agendas, because their terms don't expire with the president, regardless of the administration. It is simply easier under some administations than it is under other administrations, they will muddle around planning and waiting and then strike when the iron is hot. Remember the patriot act and the short time it took to "formulate and write" this extensive document although there was no time for anyone to read its contents before it was passed because it was so formidable. Ironic that it should be easier to write that it was to read...could it have been prepared in advance? A virtual wish list for right-wing authority that was written when the opportunity presented itself.....we all know the question.

Keep thinking about ways to reach out beyond our own chior to speak to the chiors of Americans who believe the government is always there to protect them.

Maybe it is happening here 01.Aug.2004 15:00

Hector Macgoblin

Google on "marines rural training", you will find this interesting freep post way back in '98 --  http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a629228.htm. Take care, no freeper here...

Damn but memory is short. There was a lot of this kind of activity late 90's. Remember when the JTTF was formed here in portland? That's OK, neither do I. It goes back a few years. I remember it happening, and remember the good folks on KBOO raised a fuss, (no other media did), but now that seems to have fallen down the memory hole.

That whole boiling frog routine is so appropriate. They test us, now and again, little by little to see how we would respond to things like troops in the street giving us direction, about Orange terror levels (duck tape and all), about skipping elections, about the god-damned free speech zones.

I also remember being assaulted by TV in the 70's with LA SWAT team shows. My notion of cops back then was formed by Broderick Crawford -- you know, the cop with a heart of gold. All he carried was a 6 shooter. Now we got fucking tanks on MLK.

Rant off. Wish I'd seen that show on ABC. ANybody got a tape??

THis is what you get when you live in a police state! 01.Aug.2004 15:49

Can't trust corporate politics

The cat is out of the bag and they are scared of what is about to happen!
So they are gearing up for the revolution that is to come!
They continue to use fear in order to try and control people.

The question is are you willing to fight to keep your country free?
Or are you going to just keep bending over for the corporations.

We did not get our freedom for free!
Are you willing to fight to keep it?
 http://www.gp.org/platform/2000/index.html#foreign

after reading this thread 01.Aug.2004 18:02

and

given the current trends, I've told my children via phone to skip paying their credit
card debts this month and put the $ towards MORE guns and ammo, for it's obvious that
something nasty is in the works and will come down the pike very soon. Given the way
the Rethuglicans, the militarized police, the incompetent local governance, and all
the LIES coming forth from Washington, DC it's now about time for everyone to get all
their shit together for you know for a fact that none of these government assholes are
capable of looking out for you or your loved ones. If it takes putting a scope's bead
on a marine or a cop, so be it...they have a choice, just as do we! Get ready folk's!

Now hold on... 01.Aug.2004 18:49

whoa!

The last post about advising your children to buy more guns and ammo is rediculous. And the part about putting a marine in the bead of your scope borders on insanity. So, let's say you keep all your guns & ammos, what do you really think you can do with them. Not a frickin' thing, that's what! If you were to actually attempt to carry out your rhetoric, you'll get to be one of the first to try out the digs at one of the new camps, custom built for people just like you! Perhaps you can report back to us after you are incarcerated. Get real asshole...

finally, this seems accepted 01.Aug.2004 20:36

winston

i was wondering how long it would take for people to accept the idea of martial law. i have been talking to people within the radical milleau for a while now and no one really wanted to hear about it. i definately believe that this is something that we need to prepare for and soon. we need to build networks of support between those who understand. i dont believe that resisters will be immediately taken away. those that submit without a fight will be re-educated, maybe enslaved. i say let them go quietly into the night. i know i wont.

Does anyone really suspect? 01.Aug.2004 22:30

I can't imagine

The nasty levels of control that could transpire. There was a report/question of a tank in North Portland last week but nobody could confirm it. If there were Marines in our city it would be so outrageous that few would look where the real nastyness was happening. I think that it would be a diversion for something far worse happening someplace else. This is not a justification but even those who suggest that they are prepared will be taken by surprise at the reality and I would suggest that we will all be as deer in headlights.

Martial law would require the National Guard to be called to maintain order under the direct authority of the govenors of each state...unless the constitution were suspended. In that event there is no government and everyone should use their guns at liberty and with extreem prejiduce because without a constitution there is no legitimate government and anarchy prevails. Even if you disagree with the NRA over gun control that is exactly what the second ammendment is about; keeping guns in the hands of people to defend themselves against a government gone wild. So that citizens could protect themselves in the event of anarchy. The faith is that there are enough guns to repel troops but they must be used before "control" is established.

Canadians don't need guns because they don't have a scary government but they may issue them after watching the U.S.

I can imagine 02.Aug.2004 00:25

Canadian

If you folks don't teach your government to obey pretty damn quick there will be nobody left to object.

Start talking to your neighbours only after you have taken a long hard look in the mirror.

Dear Canadian 02.Aug.2004 00:32

sorry i had kids

How can I move to Canada?

marines training for riot control and urban warfare 02.Aug.2004 04:28

jimmyz

What makes you think they are training for deployment in Iraq? The really scary thing would be to find out that they are traing for deployment here in the states in the event that a terrorist threat or attack forces the Bush administration to postpone or cancel U.S. elections. This singular event, which did not occor even at the heighth of the Civil War, could and should trigger massive protests right here in the homeland.

bleak future for Iraq 02.Aug.2004 05:34

JR

No matter who becomes president, there's going to be a large contingent of troops spread around Iraq, but there's also going to be the US "embassy" in Iraq, in the "green zone", and 1,000 or so employees within that. the purpose of that over the next few years will be to give the impression of legitimacy both to the Iraqi puppet regime and the presence of troops and diplomats. there will be official announcements of collaboration between the two, for smashing the "zarqawi network" and so on, and people will get more and more upset with the US presence. but the US won't be able to just call in airstrikes, so they need an alternative--they need to act like the British did in Basra ever since the war began. Makes sense to me that they would be training Marines for that. It looks like the new Iraqi puppet regime, no matter what form it takes, is going to be highly unpopular, so measures need to be taken to put down civil unrest...like at the Miami ftaa protests last November.

One thing I just saw on news today was footage taken just after the recent bombings, which were outside Christian churches in baghdad. There was the image of a seething crowd, a very familiar image, but then a sudden jolt among the crowd, and I though it was footage of a bomb going off, but it was actually an Iraqi security/police/national guard person firing his rifle over their heads and (I imagine) screaming and shouting at them. other security people followed him, and its the first time I've seen a seething crowd like that respond to an official Iraqi authority. that's not a good thing--its a manifestation of the helpless situation the people are in.

what's happening, I think, is that the US is succeeding in creating an elite terror squad, which will be able to instill fear in the hearts of the average Iraqi. what has come before will come again--if you could imagine an Iraq run by Uday and qsay Hussein, I think that's what the ultimate goal is.

You could probably check Google News and find this story, or some version of it. Maybe a local newspaper picked it up.

video? 02.Aug.2004 07:07

vidboy

anybody get video from the piece aired by ABC on the Corps fuckin´ up a rural US town??? Please post it here...

This isn't new 02.Aug.2004 07:25

Larry The Dwarf

Alex Jones has been reporting on this kind of thing for years. The only thing that's different is that these kinds of things are being reported out in the open now, and are becomming more frequent. check out  http://www.infowars.com and  http://www.prisonplanet.com Also, be sure to check out Alex's vids @ infowars. He's made 10 documentary films about the comming police state, including: 9/11 the Road to Tyranny, the Police State series (1-3), Masters of Terror, and America Wake Up or Waco. He authorizes people to make unlimited coppies of his films so you can get the word out faster. Also has a daily radio show (more info available @ infowars.com) and HAD a public access TV show in Austin, TX., until it was shut down the other week.

Angry 02.Aug.2004 07:39

Get Real

You people are paranoid, get help!

How we burned 02.Aug.2004 09:38

klaatu

"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."
— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize winner and author of The Gulag Archipelago, who spent 11 years in Soviet concentration camps.

I really like what 02.Aug.2004 10:22

Alexander Solzhenitsyn

has to say. He would know the TRUTH if anyone would. I'm like the above poster who cautioned his kids
to stock up on arms/ammo rather than continue to support a bankrupt "system", for we have to wake-up at
some point and come to a clear realization as to who really is our enemy and be ready to deal w/ them!
Here's a hint...they're wearing UNIFORMS...blue, green, or black...and they hate our collective guts!

dang straight people should be armed 02.Aug.2004 10:44

zogger

whomever stated they are advising their kids to stock up on defensive arms is RIGHT ON! There has NEVER been any instance of any dictatorial regime "voting" itself out of totalitarian rule. That doesn't leave too many options. People who say you have no way to defend yourself are delusional and weenie cowards more than anything else. You will not "protest" your way out of tyranny. You will not "vote out" the new world order bums who hijacked this nation long ago. You cannot depend on brainwashed sieg heiling paramilitary order followers to do anything BUT follow orders.

And you DO NOT WILLINGLY go to the camps.

Learn from history or repeat it, binary choice, pick one

Paranoid 02.Aug.2004 10:58

Like the jews in '39

but uncertain about our future and hoping for the best. It is human nature to avoid confrontation at all cost and that is what the military trains against. They teach a cruel psychology to that subordinates conflict avoidance as a survival tactic in favor of a first strike mentality as survival. To attack boldly and with violence will overcome most opposition and cow most opponets. Once we allow the presence of troops among us it is like inviting disaster because they the population has no defense training against their violence.

This is how it happened in Germany. Jews were rounded up for relocation because of a threat to their security, they were surrounded by troops all the time. Even when they had the opportunity to fight back they failed to do so. They never fought in unison, they failed to organize on any level, and they were cannon fodder. Millions of them who out numbered the people who were there to guard them.


I alway believed that we would be safe from a coup of military dictatorship because of the local civil authority like cops but they have been coopted to the system and the country has been split between us and them. All the people with guns and some type of "legitimate" authority will round up those who protest or don't fit the profile and then the war will begain against those "survivalist" types who have guns. They will do so believing that it is the right thing to do based on a lie contrived by the central command. It has been done many times recently. It will be a numbers game; eliminate the easy ones first then kill the difficult types.

To the Angry "get real" person 02.Aug.2004 14:57

Cornczech hedonistd@yahoo.com

You know...perhaps 3 years ago, I might have thought as you...but unless you walk in another's shoes.......I was arrested, along with my husband...in Washington DC....we were not doing anything but walking down the street in Georgetown...BOTH of us with long hair and laughing, having a good time...when we were arrested..most likely because my husband didn;t IMMEDIATLY get on his knees by a SUPER aggressive cop...we spent 3 days in jail, charges with "assaulting a police officer" (neither of us lifted a finger and in FACT, were sent to the ER for wounds inflicted by the arresting officers...THIS ACT ALONE made me TOTALLY lose faith in my government..(I have a MILLION stories of poor treatment during those 3 horrible and life-changing days) I knew then that I was nothing but a piece of shit to this government because I was a poor white nobody with no connections or money....just a worker bee to be "taught a lesson"....so before you go calling people PARANOID...perhaps you shoukd grow up a bit and realise that to each his own and in ALL good time is the "truth" shown to us...remember..you ONCE believed in "Santa Claus" (if you're American) until you were proven wrong...
DeAnna (Cornczech)

What's really driving America's entry into a "Holy War" against Islam? 02.Aug.2004 15:27

Robert Granier

The training of U.S. Marines for crowd control on a massive scale in Middle Eastern countries makes sense only to those few who are clued-in to the ultimate agenda of the Zionists and their allies among American Evangelical "Christian" fanatics. The destruction of all the Islamic nations that surround Israel and their occupation by US forces is crucial to the Zionist plan to raze the al-Aksa mosque, also known as the Dome of the Rock, the third most revered shrine in Islam, because it is the last barrier standing in the way of the construction of the "The Temple of the Eternal," on Temple Mount in Jerusalem. This future Jewish religious center will be Jerusalem's "Third Temple," following after the great temples of Solomon and Herod. The new temple will be built so that animal sacrifices may be re-instituted - but, most importantly, so that a proper stage may be provided for the unveiling of the "Jewish King" to the world. "Christian" Evangelicals, like their Zionist mentors believe this will coincide with the appearance of the "Messiah," and the "return of Jesus," but the leader who emerges from the Zionist Temple will not be Jesus Christ returned in glory and majesty, but His anticipated, satanic counterpart, the "man of sin," often referred to as the "Antichrist." Once under the direction of their "Jewish King," Zionist leaders believe they will become the undisputed masters of the world. The Seven (Talmudic) "Noahide Laws" (already adopted in 1991 by a joint declaration of both houses of the U.S. Congress, as the basis of all law in America), will then become the supreme law throughout the world. Under the terms of their enforcement, anyone who opposes the "Noahide Laws" shall be beheaded.

For many decades, influential individuals high up in the government of the USA have had a hidden agenda to facilitate the process of rebuilding the Jewish Temple. American-Jewish finance successfully obtained a public endorsement from the British Crown in 1917, known as the "Balfour Declaration," for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, in return for a guaranty of America's entry into World War I on the side of Britain. During the false peace between the two world wars, Zionist leaders collaborated with the Nazis, and from the 1930's to early '40's, thousands of German citizens of Jewish descent were uprooted for deportation to Palestine. Franklin Roosevelt assisted Zionists in crowding out the indigenous Arabs in Palestine with displaced European Jews, by prevented German Jews from immigrating to America. Jewish "assimilationists" who refused to leave Germany voluntarily were punished with incarceration in the Nazi labor camps. After World War II, it was claimed that millions of Jews had died while captives of the Nazis, but it was never reported that mass deaths of Jews had been engineered by the Zionists themselves. Instead, worldwide sympathy for the establishment of a Jewish haven in the Middle East was promoted by the pro-Zionist western media. The US armed and equipped Zionist forces to seize Palestine in May 1948, and President Harry Solomon Truman "recognized" the State of Israel fifteen minutes after Zionist insurgents unleashed a bloody reign of terror against the peaceful Palestinian population and claimed their sovereign nation (then under British occupation) for Zion.

The rebuilding of the "Temple of the Eternal" has been a goal of both Protestant Freemasons and their Zionist mentors with a religious fervor that can only be described as fanatical. Not to be outdone by their Protestant brethren, spokesmen for the Vatican (an institution now 100% under the control of Judeo-Freemasonry) have now declared that, "anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Semitism." The leaders of the three religious bodies of Talmudic Judaism, mainstream Protestantism, and Vatican II "Catholicism," have thus merged into one force for the implementation of the temple plan, which is now entering into its final phases. A new terrorist attack will soon be staged in the USA, and it will be claimed that Iran was behind the attack, thus justifying yet another invasion and bloody occupation of a Moslem country by U.S. forces. After Iran, the next scheduled nation for for annihilation will be Syria, then Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and ultimately, Eqypt, as the Kingdom of Jordan is swept along into the boiling caldron that US-Israeli intrigue will have by then created in the Middle East. By this time, the U.S. may still lack the manpower necessary for its pan-Arabian war, and may opt for the use of "tactical nukes" against Teheran in order to intimidate the other nations into compliance with the Zionist program. At some point, while the attention of the American people is focused on a manufactured terrorist attack on the USA, the Israelis will collapse the Dome of the Rock, by explosive charges already put in place within the labyrinth of tunnels that exist under the al-Aksa mosque. It was the Israeli excavation of these tunnels in the late-1980's that resulted in the original "Intifada," when Moslem worshipers noticed damage to the foundation and walls of the mosque that coincided with the vibration and noise of boring equipment below.

As American voters head to the polls in November, most will likely cast their votes for either one of the candidates of the two major political parties, both of whom are 100% percent committed to the covert plan for the Judeo-Masonic temple, euphemistically referred to as the "War on Terrorism." All those in our national government, even Senators like Robert Byrd, who publicly opposed the invasion of Iraq, dutifully fall in lockstep behind the "War on Terrorism." Anyone in the public arena who is against this phony war is denounced today as a deluded crackpot, but in the near future, may be regarded as an enemy of the state Eventually, dissenters against the "Holy War," longed for by Judeo-Freemasonry for centuries, will not be tolerated. Soon after the election, America's youth, including both its young men and women, will be conscripted into Zionism's latest meat grinder of death and horror that will make Vietnam look like a Sunday school picnic. Millions of Christians and Moslems will be slaughtered on the battlefield to the delight of the Zionists. The stage is now set for the final showdown over control of Temple Mount, and the dumbed-down American people will have no idea what the war, it will generate, is all about, or the two world wars which preceded it. But those Americans who call themselves "Christians" while enthusiastically supporting America's devastating air-raids over Arab cities, which have already obliterated thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, should take note of the new bumper sticker now seen on a few cars, and contemplate the question it asks: "Who would Jesus bomb?"

-RG

Any tool is a weapon if you hold it right 02.Aug.2004 15:49

Bison Boy

The US Marines are the premier rapid response force in the world today. While they were tied up in the foolish war in Iraq, Liberia faced a serious crisis. Many nations (and many Liberian civillians) begged us to send in the Marines to stop the killing, but Our Dear Leader delayed for weeks.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that a similar situation arises, and that whatever president we have is a decent human being and orders the Marines to go in and help. (Not just occupy, but really *help*, like we could have done in Liberia.) Let's further assume that the US intervention is not universally popular; that the Marines' arrival has halted a violent power struggle between rival factions, and one of those factions whips up its partisans to riot against the Marines. If you recall the situation in Liberia, you'll know that this is completely plausible.

When faced with this massive, howling, rock-throwing mob, do you want the Marines to SHOOT THE CROWD?

Of course not.

They need to have other options. If we're going to ask them to do peacekeeping work, they need to have the right training for it. They need to be able to break up a crowd of demonstrators with minimal force, and hopefully by intimidation alone. To be capable of this, they need to be trained in the proper techniques... which have very little to do with modern warfare.

Yes, Marines trained in riot control could be ordered to put down protests in the US. I like to think that Marine officers would refuse such orders, but we all know it *could* happen. If Bush remains in office beyond January 2005, maybe we'll even see it tried in four years or so.

But without this training, the Marines may one day be forced to shoot at a crowd of angry protestors. When asked if they can go in and intervene to break up a genocide, they may be forced to answer "Sir, no sir... our troops don't have the right training."

I say, let them train. I'll take my chances that such traiing might be used against me one day, in the hopes that some other day it might stop a genocide.

Thanks for the warnings and recommendations 02.Aug.2004 16:15

Joe 123

There are a lot of people speaking up, trying to inform the public of the continuing destruction of our free nation. We have nearly lost our right to assemble and to speak freely. During the recent convention in Boston, Americans were caged in, forced behind wire, and so allowed to protest. Folks, pray to God that the coming elections are truly free of monkey business, or we are in for a spell in hell.

PS
I even hesitate sending this in to indymedia.org wondering if such a simple comment can somehow be traced back to me via a piece of software...

That makes me very sad...

Marines are not subject to Posse Comitatus provisions - they are a naval force 02.Aug.2004 23:25

Claymoremind

Posse Comitatus only applies to the use of regular Army troops against domestic disturbances - Naval forces are exempt, and the US Marines are under the authority of the Navy.

I remember receieving riot control training in 1975 just prior to the final pullout from VietNam while stationed at Camp Pendleton. We were being readied to put down civil unrest in the event that the VietNam peace settlement failed.

These Marines are not being trained to put down Iraqi rioters - Iraq is much too dangerous for these type of lockstep snatch and grab tactics. This training is for civil unrest here in the U.S. - My guess would be electoral protests or Patriot act II protests.


shock and awe 02.Aug.2004 23:59

.

remember that

ask any marine
ask any officer
they even say it on cnn
massive response

sometimes they respond before anything happens

about voting 03.Aug.2004 04:04

feralia

Zogger wrote:
"You will not "vote out" the new world order bums who hijacked this nation long ago"

but it is entirely possible to do so. All that is needed is a majority to not vote for any of the business candidates. The problem is that the majority do vote for them. This is because the majority are too lazy to accept a world where everything isn't handed to them on a plate. Where they might face some personal difficulty. Where they might not have access to a car to go wherever they want, whenever they want. Where power might not be available in unlimited supply to them. Where food might not be easily available, without effort.

"you" (whoever this 'you' Zogger is speaking) should realize that you are in a very small minority, and of that minority I seriously doubt that more than a few would remain dedicated to allowing a fairer world to happen when the personal results of withdrawing western oppression of the rest of the world became real in your world.

So just stop bleating about injustice being done on your behalf by the corrup evil leaders unless you are willing to take serious drop in your 'standard of living' and admit that most of what you regard as fundamental rights are just self-indulgences which would be gone the moment the opressors stopped looking after your source of supply around the world.


There's alot to stand for than to stand against 03.Aug.2004 19:46

TENBEARS loach74@aol.com

The real question that we need to ask ourselves is; Are we ready to do prison time? Are we ready to stand up for the dwindling rights we now possess? Are we truly willing to lay down the luxuries & comfort of security for freedom? Our society is so wrapped up in matierialism, people are suckered into thinking they can't live without the shit you see on T.V., in department stores, "what's in", in fashion. We were meant to excel in things much greater than these things. We are blind. Would you exchange cold comfort for change?

Those that don't learn from the past. 09.Aug.2004 16:08

lookout.com

This is nothing new to this country why is everyone trying to figure out why this training is going on. Less that one hundred yaers ago the military was used to keep people from voting and just living an ordanary life.Why would anybody thunk any different now.Iraq will just be the training ground for what is to come.It's not The President"s fault it's our fault we are watching this happen before our eyes. We choose not to do anything as a country.

be afraid very afraid 18.Oct.2008 22:34

wolverines

You do not do something like this unless you plan to use it. It is only a matter of time before the industrial war machine takes over. It is inevitable that all civilizations fall and this has been a long time coming. America is no longer the land of the free we are only being allowed to believe such nonsense for as long as remains useful. In the beginning it will seem as if martial law is the right choice and Americans will believe we need it, by the time we realize the truth it will be too late to resist. Those who do may be considered terrorist themselves.